Thaksin Supporters

[givenall]

I have been thinking about this for a while. I still can’t understand how naive some of the Thai people are. I am mostly talking about the people who still support Thaksin. Not the ones do it for the money. There are some supporters that like him and them want him back.

I ask them why they like Thaksin, they tell me because he helped them. I ask for specific and they point out the aid they got while he was a PM. Them I ask them if the aid helped them to have a better life and then they tell me no and he did not impacting their life long term.

It seem the reason they like him is like any politician bribe them by different means. Thaksin really was after his own interest. I live near one of his development that is stopped and it is in prim locations near Airport link. I guess him and his family and associates took advantage of what the government plans like new Airport and invested their money, I guess you can call it insider trading. In west they will lose all their gains plus some just like now what will happen to Thaksin. The only help Thaksin did was to create support amount commoners to keep him in power.

One more thing I notices I never see any educated people in the Red demonstration. They are mostly poor from Isan, mostly the one can be manipulated by money.

[barrybankruad]

I'm sorry mate but you are in a completely blinkered enviroment. I hav lived these so called 'stupid, uneducated poor' as you call them for many years and have seeen the improvements that came about whilst he was P.M. Cheap loans to get them away from the loan sharks, minimal hospital fees, better roads, computers in classrooms, the list goes on and on.

I agree Thaksin was no saint, the reason they got rid of him in an illegal coup whilst he was out of the Country was the the powers that be feared that he was encroaching on their power base. He was no more corrupt than any other Thai politician, witness the 'fire brigade' debacle, now the so called 'bomb detectors' etc. etc.

They rural power base that he has has many. many intelligent well educated members. You have been listening far to long the the Bangkok urban residents who think all Issan people are khwai.

[Godolphin]

Maybe they developed some hope from a government that was democratically elected twice and started to see that they don't have to be the hapless victims of a corrupt power elite, that they could make a difference with their votes and actually bring in change.

Maybe their red loyalties were also inspired by listening to the yellow shirts, who actually don't want the majority of Thais to vote.

I am no Thaksin supporter, I think the man is an egomaniac but social forces have been unleashed in Thai society which are far more powerful than mere hero-worship or dumbness.

[Totster]

I'm sorry mate but you are in a completely blinkered enviroment. I hav lived these so called 'stupid, uneducated poor' as you call them for many years and have seeen the improvements that came about whilst he was P.M. Cheap loans to get them away from the loan sharks, minimal hospital fees, better roads, computers in classrooms, the list goes on and on.

I agree Thaksin was no saint, the reason they got rid of him in an illegal coup whilst he was out of the Country was the the powers that be feared that he was encroaching on their power base. He was no more corrupt than any other Thai politician, witness the 'fire brigade' debacle, now the so called 'bomb detectors' etc. etc.

They rural power base that he has has many. many intelligent well educated members. You have been listening far to long the the Bangkok urban residents who think all Issan people are khwai.

I agree.

Whereas Thaksin was no saint.. the 'uneducated' did benefit to and extent. Also, their right to choose a leader democratically, not just the once, was taken away by a cowardice movement when they couldn't do it democratically. Whether or not we believe in his policies or actions is irrelevant. The people of Isaan had a voice, and as usual the rich who control the country didn't like that.

Money for votes is a farce.. here in Isaan every party gave money.. and the same amount, so in my mind there is still a choice, and the uneducated made a choice, only for it to be overturned.. because after all, what do the normal people know about politics

totster

[Garry9999]

Maybe they developed some hope from a government that was democratically elected twice and started to see that they don't have to be the hapless victims of a corrupt power elite, that they could make a difference with their votes and actually bring in change.

Maybe their red loyalties were also inspired by listening to the yellow shirts, who actually don't want the majority of Thais to vote.

I am no Thaksin supporter, I think the man is an egomaniac but social forces have been unleashed in Thai society which are far more powerful than mere hero-worship or dumbness.

Agreed, Thaksin gave them more than any other PM before.

[Moonrakers]

There are poor people in the south as well you know!

[OZEMADE]

There are poor people in the south as well you know!

Yes and thats because they vote the other way and have tooo much trouble there. There have been billions spent there on trying to eradicate the rebels/terrorists, but to no avail. Got any suggestions.

[mca]

One more thing I notices I never see any educated people in the Red demonstration.

Please givenall if you're going to post complete and utter <deleted> at least do us the courtesy of warning us in advance mate.

[Moonrakers]

There are poor people in the south as well you know!

Yes and thats because they vote the other way and have tooo much trouble there. There have been billions spent there on trying to eradicate the rebels/terrorists, but to no avail. Got any suggestions.

Why should the way they vote make any difference?

You have actually just outlined one example of how Thaksin is entirely self serving.

[Kan Win]

Well I have lived and worked in Thailand for near on 20 years, have a PR btw.

Was first working on Rama 9 road which ended near Radio 107, TV Channel 9 what was at the end of this road was jungle and one did ask the question? where will this road lead to if it is ever built......Plans where alraedy in place was the answer

Now you may ask "which PM did the plans" answer "an old Statesman with a vision of Bangkok's future". Everyone around him as "givenall" mentioned

I guess you can call it insider trading

but who gained from that knowledge ??????????????????????????? People in the know did profit from that, but I never heard of a witch hunt for them as there is now for Khun Thaksin

Sawadee

[tonglen]

I'm sorry mate but you are in a completely blinkered enviroment. I hav lived these so called 'stupid, uneducated poor' as you call them for many years and have seeen the improvements that came about whilst he was P.M. Cheap loans to get them away from the loan sharks, minimal hospital fees, better roads, computers in classrooms, the list goes on and on.

I agree Thaksin was no saint, the reason they got rid of him in an illegal coup whilst he was out of the Country was the the powers that be feared that he was encroaching on their power base. He was no more corrupt than any other Thai politician, witness the 'fire brigade' debacle, now the so called 'bomb detectors' etc. etc.

They rural power base that he has has many. many intelligent well educated members. You have been listening far to long the the Bangkok urban residents who think all Issan people are khwai.

Agreed. Everyone needs/wants change that will benefit them. This does not make them foolish because they have an inclination for a political reformation that benefits them. It makes them human.

Do you know what the platform upon which Barrack Obama ran? HOPE and CHANGE. Guess what? He won. Of course the change is not most want, but, hey, that's politicians the world over. Nothing but a political treadmill they run their campaign on. Once elected, they run the other way.

Thaksin benefited many people. Period. Unfortunately, this does not make him honorable. He's a politician and a businessman as well. What did you expect, Mother Theresa? Mohandas Karamchand Ghandi? Ask anyone in pre-war Germany what they thought of Hitler. They will tell you he brought industrialization and manufacturing jobs along with a healthy economy. Of course all that "progress" was built upon the backs of concentration camps. An older friend of mine clued me in on this fact-she was alive during Hitler's tenure. Many people loved him, many did not. All a matter of perspective, folks.

[givenall]

There are poor people in the south as well you know!

Yes and thats because they vote the other way and have tooo much trouble there. There have been billions spent there on trying to eradicate the rebels/terrorists, but to no avail. Got any suggestions.

Why should the way they vote make any difference?

You have actually just outlined one example of how Thaksin is entirely self serving.

Additionally I do not believe Mr. T. would have had the same result if he had focused on the south. The south folks tend to be more educated and tend to have their own businesses

[terrier123]

There are poor people in the south as well you know!

Yes and thats because they vote the other way and have tooo much trouble there. There have been billions spent there on trying to eradicate the rebels/terrorists, but to no avail. Got any suggestions.

Why should the way they vote make any difference?

Your profile states you are in Bangkok. Before submitting comments about Isaan, may I respectfully suggest you try living in Isaan as I have for almost 8 years. Maybe then (and only maybe) you will appreciate why the poor people of the region admire and respect the guy so much.

This is not to express my opinoions as your posting asked why the naive (bad choice of word) support him so much.

You have actually just outlined one example of how Thaksin is entirely self serving.

Additionally I do not believe Mr. T. would have had the same result if he had focused on the south. The south folks tend to be more educated and tend to have their own businesses

[khunjamespittman]

Let me see if I have this right "givenall". You are the educated one. Anyone who disagrees with you is uneducated.

My prescription for you is a dose of reality. Take a look in the mirror. Anyone who views themself with so much adulation clearly has a problem with reality.

Try to acknowledge that other people have strongly held opinions and they are probably not going agree with you on many things.

Disagreeing with you has nothing to do with how educated or uneducated they are or whether they have the capacity to reach logical and rational conclusions without letting their emotions rule their brains.

Please take your meds.

Chill out Bubba!

[chuang]

There are poor people in the south as well you know!

Yes and thats because they vote the other way and have tooo much trouble there. There have been billions spent there on trying to eradicate the rebels/terrorists, but to no avail. Got any suggestions.

They voted with their feet.....

[Ulysses G.]

Thaksin benefited many people. Period. Unfortunately, this does not make him honorable. He's a politician and a businessman as well. What did you expect, Mother Theresa? Mohandas Karamchand Ghandi? Ask anyone in pre-war Germany what they thought of Hitler. They will tell you he brought industrialization and manufacturing jobs along with a healthy economy. Of course all that "progress" was built upon the backs of concentration camps. An older friend of mine clued me in on this fact-she was alive during Hitler's tenure. Many people loved him, many did not. All a matter of perspective, folks.

Thaksin is no saint, but he is no Hitler. Attempting to equate the two is delusional.

[Gary A]

When will the anti Thaksin farangs open their eyes and take an honest look. They seem to think there is an alternative, There is NO alternative. All the elite Thai politicians are corrupt. Was Thaksin crooked, of course he was. Are the rest of them better? Of course not.

[monkfish]

I also can't believe how naive some of the farang are.

What is your education by the way? and how many Red shirt protests have you been too?

What do you know about Thai history? and are you being paid to post?

This may also help understand what is going on in Thailand.

I guess most Thaksin bashers live in BKK, Pattaya, Phucket or Ko Samui so they only here one point of view.

[geriatrickid]

One more thing I notices I never see any educated people in the Red demonstration. They are mostly poor from Isan, mostly the one can be manipulated by money.

My friend is from the South. Because of Thaksin's policies he was able to attend university. Today he is continuing his education part time. Because of the screwed up system of continuing education, where classes are only offered on Saturday and Sunday, he has to make up the time he misses at work on Saturday. This results in his working 8 am until 7 pm. Nights are spent on homework. weekends he at class. His employer is very anti Thaksin and is "connected" to the ruling elites. This employer has a company wide policy that discourages continuing education and has advised my friend that his arrangement of taking saturday off to go to class is no longer acceptable.

My friend with a university diploma that wants to improve his position in life is being blocked by an attitude prevalent amongst the haves in this country: It is one that seeks to keep the have nots down and pushed to the ground. As such, my friend does not have the time to attend a rally, nor would he for fear of being fired by his wealthy employer.

The scenario I have described is the reality for a great many people. Because you do not see these people does not mean they are non existent. Rather, they are waiting and hoping that one day there will a change and if the time seems right, they will rise up as is the case with all popular uprisings. The military has a large number of middle ranks and NCOs with no opportunity for advancement. When the time is ripe they will strike.

You are a fool to interpret the discretion of many to mean agreement with the status quo. For some people to challenge the current regime is the quickest way to losing business, a job and a chance at making a better life for oneself. Many people hated Stalin, but Russia had to wait until he died.

[SpoliaOpima]

Maybe they developed some hope from a government that was democratically elected twice and started to see that they don't have to be the hapless victims of a corrupt power elite, that they could make a difference with their votes and actually bring in change.

Maybe their red loyalties were also inspired by listening to the yellow shirts, who actually don't want the majority of Thais to vote.

I am no Thaksin supporter, I think the man is an egomaniac but social forces have been unleashed in Thai society which are far more powerful than mere hero-worship or dumbness.

Agreed, Thaksin gave them more than any other PM before.

Yes. Put them deeper in debt than any previous PM. Not exactly the proudest of legacies.

[monkfish]

Maybe they developed some hope from a government that was democratically elected twice and started to see that they don't have to be the hapless victims of a corrupt power elite, that they could make a difference with their votes and actually bring in change.

Maybe their red loyalties were also inspired by listening to the yellow shirts, who actually don't want the majority of Thais to vote.

I am no Thaksin supporter, I think the man is an egomaniac but social forces have been unleashed in Thai society which are far more powerful than mere hero-worship or dumbness.

Agreed, Thaksin gave them more than any other PM before.

Yes. Put them deeper in debt than any previous PM. Not exactly the proudest of legacies.

First hand knowledge or did you read it somewhere?

[jdinasia]

One more thing I notices I never see any educated people in the Red demonstration. They are mostly poor from Isan, mostly the one can be manipulated by money.

My friend is from the South. Because of Thaksin's policies he was able to attend university. Today he is continuing his education part time. Because of the screwed up system of continuing education, where classes are only offered on Saturday and Sunday, he has to make up the time he misses at work on Saturday. This results in his working 8 am until 7 pm. Nights are spent on homework. weekends he at class. His employer is very anti Thaksin and is "connected" to the ruling elites. This employer has a company wide policy that discourages continuing education and has advised my friend that his arrangement of taking saturday off to go to class is no longer acceptable.

My friend with a university diploma that wants to improve his position in life is being blocked by an attitude prevalent amongst the haves in this country: It is one that seeks to keep the have nots down and pushed to the ground. As such, my friend does not have the time to attend a rally, nor would he for fear of being fired by his wealthy employer.

The scenario I have described is the reality for a great many people. Because you do not see these people does not mean they are non existent. Rather, they are waiting and hoping that one day there will a change and if the time seems right, they will rise up as is the case with all popular uprisings. The military has a large number of middle ranks and NCOs with no opportunity for advancement. When the time is ripe they will strike.

You are a fool to interpret the discretion of many to mean agreement with the status quo. For some people to challenge the current regime is the quickest way to losing business, a job and a chance at making a better life for oneself. Many people hated Stalin, but Russia had to wait until he died.

Ummm

1) Who are you comparing with Stalin?

2) You make assumptions based on 1 friend in Phuket?

[BigWheelMan]

I don’t give a toss about Thai politicians, one way or another. My concerns are, what would be the consequences for me and my family as a foreigner living here?

For those of you that have leanings towards any particular Thai politician or party, your opinions will have no credence if the crap hits the fan, will we be considered only as foreigners, like dry tinder caught within a circle of fire.

Presently the political situation in Thailand is like a dormant volcano that could exploded any time and if the worst does happen that is looking likely, we will have more to worry about than what Government is best to serve the Thai people.

[tooninthai]

Strange that you mention uneducated Thais.

The current g/f family are all true red shirts and intensely dislike this government. All are hard working and educated at good quality English speaking schools. 2 are high up in their jobs at 'Chula Uni. 1 ran her own Medical training school. 1 sister has a large merchandising shop.

The family own a lot of land and most have a good car each.

The parents had a thriving business before they retired, earning more than many of us in a year.

Most of the rest of the family have land, money and good jobs too.

Therefore, maybe not so few 'uneducated' Thai people as you think are in favour of Thaksin.

Me? I sit on the sidelines regarding any discussions when they begin. Better to keep out of local politics and religion, for me.

edit .... phraseology

Edited February 12, 2010 by tooninthai

[nputman]

Unedjucated????????????????????????????I find this word insulting when refering to NON Bangkok or NON Urban individuals.

More ????Education generally means less common sense, at least in the States it does.

Thaksin was a shister thats for sure but he did more for the RURAL poor than any Thai Politicians have in the past.

But I am just a guest in Thailand and my opinion is mine and mine alone.

[SpoliaOpima]

Maybe they developed some hope from a government that was democratically elected twice and started to see that they don't have to be the hapless victims of a corrupt power elite, that they could make a difference with their votes and actually bring in change.

Maybe their red loyalties were also inspired by listening to the yellow shirts, who actually don't want the majority of Thais to vote.

I am no Thaksin supporter, I think the man is an egomaniac but social forces have been unleashed in Thai society which are far more powerful than mere hero-worship or dumbness.

Agreed, Thaksin gave them more than any other PM before.

Yes. Put them deeper in debt than any previous PM. Not exactly the proudest of legacies.

First hand knowledge or did you read it somewhere?

First hand, mate.

[SpoliaOpima]

Agreed, Thaksin gave them more than any other PM before.

Indeed.

"In five years, Thaksin systematically subjected dissenting voices to police brutality, legal harassment, and a relentless smear campaign that portrayed them as anarchists and enemies of the nation. He revived repressive legislation granting the police expansive powers to search and interrogate suspects. He moved to assert editorial control over the television channels owned by the state. He routinely pressured the print media to give favorable coverage through threats of legal action and the manipulation of the advertising budget of state-owned enterprises. And he vanquished independent bodies like the Election Commission, the National Counter Corruption Commission, and the National Human Rights Commission through carrots, sticks, and a wave of partisan appointments.

More shamefully still, in 2003 Thaksin launched a “war on drugs” that vowed to eradicate drug trafficking within three months. More than 2,500 people — according to Thailand’s own Office of Narcotics Control Board, as many as 1,400 of whom had nothing to do at all with drugs — were killed in a flurry of extra-judicial executions. Whether the government’s campaign made much of a dent in the lucrative narcotics trade is not clear. Drug abuse was reported on the rise in 2005.

If that weren’t enough, throughout his tenure Thaksin also seems to have done his utmost to inflame long-dormant ethnic tensions in Thailand’s southern provinces of Pattani, Yala, and Narathiwat. Insurgent offensives that targeted army bases and government schools in early 2004 were followed by the government’s brutal reprisals. The military and the police were cited in a number of episodes of torture, abductions, and murders of activists and suspected insurgents. Voices of dissent like those of human rights advocate Somchai Neelaphaijit were forever silenced. On April 28, 113 people were killed in incidents such as those that led to the storming of the Kru-Ze mosque in Pattani, where 28 lightly-armed men who had barricated themselves inside were massacred. The following October, the government’s heavy-handedness caused the death by suffocation of 78 among the hundreds of people who had been loaded onto military trucks during a peaceful protest in Tak Bai. By 2006, what was once effectively contained to a low-intensity conflict characterized by sporadic episodes of minor violence had erupted into a full-scale insurgency, the daily attacks on the representatives and the symbols of the state leaving hundreds dead in their wake." -- Federico Ferrara, Assistant Professor of Political Science, National University of Singapore, author of Thailand Unhinged.

[geriatrickid]

"

It's convenient to blame Mr. Thaksin for the unfortunate events associated with the drug war that was undertaken. Unfortunately, it was a real war. It took place as drug cartels and syndicates were close to usurping power at a national level and had already taken control of large parts of the drug plagued regions. You have conveniently ignored the fact that the murders were going on long before the response. The money that flowed from the drug trade had turned key elements of the government including the judiciary, policy, military and bureaucracy. Those that refused, were being killed off. Mr. Thaksin had no other option but to employ a tough stand. I put it to you that if Mr. Abhisit had been in the same position he would have done similar. That's how serious the crisis was. Thailand was fast on the road to becoming taken over by the narco trade just as Panama was taken over and just as Columbia saw the coca lords try to take over a nation.

It's easy to blame Mr. Thaksin for the excesses, be wasn't the one doing the killings was he? He had to work with what was there. Is it his fault he the military did not have discipline and refused to accept the authority of an elected government? Is it his fault that the police force was untrained? Was it his fault the judiciary was screwed up? Those problems were there long before he arrived and they are still there today. Mr. Thaksin had the military and the elites breathing down his neck starting as soon as he took office. They went out of their way to sabotage everthing he tried to do. It's blood libel to try and create the impression that Mr. Thaksin was a mass murderer who went into the streets killing innocent people. He did not. Save the drama for the rest of the gullible guppies that need to find conspiracies and complex plans when there were none.

[RogueExpat]

"

It's convenient to blame Mr. Thaksin for the unfortunate events associated with the drug war that was undertaken. Unfortunately, it was a real war. It took place as drug cartels and syndicates were close to usurping power at a national level and had already taken control of large parts of the drug plagued regions. You have conveniently ignored the fact that the murders were going on long before the response. The money that flowed from the drug trade had turned key elements of the government including the judiciary, policy, military and bureaucracy. Those that refused, were being killed off. Mr. Thaksin had no other option but to employ a tough stand. I put it to you that if Mr. Abhisit had been in the same position he would have done similar. That's how serious the crisis was. Thailand was fast on the road to becoming taken over by the narco trade just as Panama was taken over and just as Columbia saw the coca lords try to take over a nation.

It's easy to blame Mr. Thaksin for the excesses, be wasn't the one doing the killings was he? He had to work with what was there. Is it his fault he the military did not have discipline and refused to accept the authority of an elected government? Is it his fault that the police force was untrained? Was it his fault the judiciary was screwed up? Those problems were there long before he arrived and they are still there today. Mr. Thaksin had the military and the elites breathing down his neck starting as soon as he took office. They went out of their way to sabotage everthing he tried to do. It's blood libel to try and create the impression that Mr. Thaksin was a mass murderer who went into the streets killing innocent people. He did not. Save the drama for the rest of the gullible guppies that need to find conspiracies and complex plans when there were none.

Completely disagree with the "he didn't pull the trigger sentiment".

Read this complete translation of Mr Thaksin's speech calling on the countrie's authorities to use whatever means necessary to eradicate drug dealers.

thaksinspeechondrugwar14january2003.pdf

Excerpt:

Those who do good will have good done to them, and those who do evil will be punished. So if you are successful at suppression, there must be rewards for asset

seizure. You will have the honour and reward of money that is untainted, and you will be happy. But let me warn you one thing. We must not arrest scapegoats, and we must not have mercy towards drug traders.

and

With the traders, you must use hammer and fist, that is, act decisively and without mercy. Police General Phao Sriyanon once said “There is nothing under the

sun that the Thai police cannot do.” So I’m confident that drugs are something that the Thai police can deal with. Do it to the full. Provincial governors must give support and work too. If there is failure, both the provincial governor and provincial police chief will go together.

Edited February 13, 2010 by thaiphoon
Line spacing adjusted

[H2oDunc]

I think you will find the American Government in their war on drugs has killed a lot more people than Thaksin ever did and not just in their own country. Also he happened to be a democratically elected leader before he was ousted from power by the army. Saying you cant see why people would vote for him is also naive. I cannot understand why anybody in their right minds would ever vote for the Labour party in the UK but I can guarantee many will.

Corrupt he may have been but he should have been ousted by the people not the army or was he ousted by the army because the rich knew they could never win a fair fight at the ballot box ?

I do not think a farang will ever really understand Thai politics.