Working On Your Own House, Legal?

[stevehaigh]

following up on a discussion on another thread about bricks, i was wondering about working on you own house.

clearly "working" as in laying bricks, sawing wood, etc. is illegal (unless you have a work permit) but what about checking up on the builders, measureing, drawing, etc. Any factual advice please?

thx steve

[chownah]

I'm interested in this too. I think that doing brick laying and wood cutting is legal but I could very likely be wrong. If/when I get a chance I'm going to my local ESO (see the brick/block thread for the name) and ask them....but....I don't know when I'll have time to do this since I'm to busy cutting wood, pouring cement, and otherwise possibly breaking the law!!! Maybe you could go and ask if you have time an let us know their response.

My motto is never do work you can con some sucker into doing for you!!!

Chownah

[penzman]

My motto is better do it correctly myself rather than pay someone else and having to start over or correct it in the end. I've never cared about it being legal or not, this is our house and land. I've seen too many messes, disasters and thoughtless improvisations.

[Ajarn]

Seeking some balance in the reasoning for the question/fear, is there anyplace anyone has ever lived where a foreigner couldn't do repair work, or whatever, to their own home? Anything remotely similar to what's being feared as possible in Thailand?

Not to my knowledge, but maybe someone else has?

[thai_norman]

steve, i think checking up on the workers and that sort of thing even the poorest policeman/immigration official wont try to extort money from you, but the thing is its not really your house in the law, it maybe in your companies name of which you in the law own a minor percentage of, there are 6 other directors to take care of that sort of stuff, ie the checking of the house construction, for the plans in the law you should be paying a thai to draw them up, normally here in Pattaya the police etc just try to get some dosh, ie 20k, but if it gets to the police station then its serious, you are locked up and have to pay bail then goto court and hopefully get out of it, a lot depends on how greedy they are.

a guy i know had a computer shop, he had a thai guy working for him, he was sitting in his shop playing a game on one of the pcs, a load of immigration guys came in and started taking his picture etc and said he was working illegally, he showed them the game he was playing and told them he wasnt working, he spent 2 days in jail and then went to court, said it was the worst experiance of his life, the judge thru the case out, he still had to pay for his lawyer etc etc, he didnt have enough money to make bail

another guy i know who has a work permit, but it wasnt valid for the building he was working in, this cost him 30k bribe, if it had got to the police station he would have been prosecuted and kicked out of the country, i have heard so many horror stories from bar owners that have been caught behind their bar, then again i know guys here working illegally that havent done a visa run for years and they never have any problems, funny old world aint it ...

[Ajarn]

Your conjecture seeems to have no connection to the 'real' evidence you present to support your hypothesis...

Being caught working in a business is not the same as being in your home, unless your home is also a business. There are legal protections in one's home, even for foreign renters, even in Thailand...

There may be fears otherwise, but I fail yet to see the logic in some of them...

But I've lived here long enough to know not say 'never' regarding anything here, for truly anything is possible here

Edited May 10, 2005 by Ajarn

[thai_norman]

ajarn, but your home is not your home if you are a farang, your home is either fully thai owned or company owned, well unless your american and got it under that treaty thingy, as most farangs in thailand aint american they cant use the treaty thingy so they go the company or thai wifes name route, therefor under thai law it is not their home, its some thais home or a group of thais home with the minority belonging to a farang.

[Dragonman]

Hey good thread guys. I've just told the missus there's no more mowing the lawn for me.

[Ajarn]

ajarn, but your home is not your home if you are a farang, your home is either fully thai owned or company owned, well unless your american and got it under that treaty thingy, as most farangs in thailand aint american they cant use the treaty thingy so they go the company or thai wifes name route, therefor under thai law it is not their home, its some thais home or a group of thais home with the minority belonging to a farang.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Check the laws a bit more closely. tenants have some rights, be they Thai or farang.

Anyway, it has little to do with the fearful question. Just equally fearful 'the sky is falling!' kind of responses. No real facts or experiences to give one iota of credence to these fears of being arrested for mowing your lawn.

If you want to know, simply call the Labor office and ask. That's the only place that can lay out the facts for you.

[chownah]

Maybe there are really two issues here. One is what does the law say, and Two is what will happen if you get taken to court, regardless of what the law says.

In Thailand if you are from a rich family you can shoot and kill a police officer without provocation in a club with a dozen eye witnesses and be found not guilty for lack of evidence. Likewise if some powerful person wants to have their way with you....they will. Judges in Thailand are very "flexible" in how they administer the law. If you lived in a wealthy neighborhood (I don't) and was working on your house and some well connected neighbor didn't like foreigners much and decided he didn't want one as a neighbor and saw you doing something resembling work and got the bright idea that he needed to check up on your work permit (which you don't have) he could probably have you deported and barred from returning. It wouldn't really matter if the actual wording of the law didn't really apply just so long as some lame idea could be put forward. The damage he could do to you would be directly related to his power and wealth.

My personal situation is such that my neighbors all know me and are mostly related to me and they are farmers and have part time jobs for the off season and they kind of respect the fact that when it came time to dig the shit hole that I did it myself and didn't pay someone to do my dirty work for me....so.....no one will complain about what I'm doing. But, I'm interested in knowing what the law actually says just for my own education.

Edited May 11, 2005 by chownah

[Steve2UK]

steve, i think checking up on the workers and that sort of thing even the poorest policeman/immigration official wont try to extort money from you, but the thing is its not really your house in the law, it maybe in your companies name of which you in the law own a minor percentage of,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is that actually correct? I thought it's only the land that must be bought through the company........... From what I've seen on other threads, the farang can personally own a house he gets built on leased land. But I'm no lawyer

[andy50]

its not much good owning the house, if the land its stood on isn,t yours !

[Steve2UK]

its not much good owning the house, if the land its stood on isn,t yours !

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But, from what I've read, some do just that.

[thai_norman]

even if you do own the house and land and wotever, thai law states that a farang cannot be employed in a job that a thai can do, this in theory could be construed as cooking your bacon and eggs in the morning as by rights you could be employing a thai to do it for you, although i have to admit that i think the judge would throw that one out of court, at least i would hope so, im trying to think back and find the most idiotic arrest for working i can think of, mainly though most of the guys i know its for being behind the bar in their bar...ahhhh, i just remembered one,

aussie guy with a bar on beach road, outside the front of his bar shaking hands with a friend of his, immigration arrested him and he was charged with soliciting for customers and thrown out of the country, he came back the next week but that shows how ridiculous some of these charges and laws are.

[chownah]

its not much good owning the house, if the land its stood on isn,t yours !

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But, from what I've read, some do just that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If push comes to shove you could have the house dismantled and build somewhere else. I know this sounds ridiculous but Thai people do this. In my family a piece of land was sold and the family member whose house was there just dismantled the house and rebuilt down the road on another family owned piece of land. It was not a big deal to them at all.

[Khutan]

ajarn, but your home is not your home if you are a farang

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well maybe you can seek different advice. I certainly own a house on my wife's land, to the point where I can refuse entry to her.

If I am finished with it I can remove it however I see fit - Including burning ir to the ground. (George don't worry, I am keeping the house and the advertising package will be forthcoming - when its all finished).

[thai_norman]

ajarn, but your home is not your home if you are a farang

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well maybe you can seek different advice. I certainly own a house on my wife's land, to the point where I can refuse entry to her.

If I am finished with it I can remove it however I see fit - Including burning ir to the ground. (George don't worry, I am keeping the house and the advertising package will be forthcoming - when its all finished).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ok just for a laugh lets put this idea forward, your house is in the middle of the land, say your wife refuses you access thru her land to your house, now i admit i havent given the idea any thought, then again if you lease the land from your wife of which the maximum time period is 30 years, then obviously you will have access to your house for that 30 years.

Well maybe you can seek different advice. I certainly own a house on my wife's land, to the point where I can refuse entry to her.

could you really refuse access to the landowner? i know in most lease agreements there is a clause where the owner can arrange access, obviously this has to be at an agreed upon time, thai laws are a minefield waiting to explode, then again most of it comes down to who is willing to pay the police the most.

[Khutan]

ok just for a laugh lets put this idea forward, your house is in the middle of the land

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It isnt

could you really refuse access to the landowner?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

to go inside the house - of course. There are many leasehold properties where the Prime Lease owner or the land owner isn't allowed in the house/apartment/condo without the lessors agreement, think about our own rental apartment.

Just because she is my wife, doesn't mean it isn't my house.

[thai_norman]

ok just for a laugh lets put this idea forward, your house is in the middle of the land

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It isnt

erm, when we are speaking of a house we are both talking about a building that is freestanding? so ok your front door has to be at least 2 meters away from anybody elses land and your windows 1 meter away, so who owns the 2 meters in front of your door? your wife i assume? or do you lease that aswell, not that it really matters as all this thread is about at the moment is the hypcrosy of owning a house on leased land for 30 years.

hmmm i really should look up how to spell those long words

[david1]

ajarn, but your home is not your home if you are a farang, your home is either fully thai owned or company owned, well unless your american and got it under that treaty thingy, as most farangs in thailand aint american they cant use the treaty thingy so they go the company or thai wifes name route, therefor under thai law it is not their home, its some thais home or a group of thais home with the minority belonging to a farang.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As an American I am interested in the " Treaty Thing". Any info. you can give me would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[Ajarn]

ok just for a laugh lets put this idea forward, your house is in the middle of the land

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It isnt

erm, when we are speaking of a house we are both talking about a building that is freestanding? so ok your front door has to be at least 2 meters away from anybody elses land and your windows 1 meter away, so who owns the 2 meters in front of your door? your wife i assume? or do you lease that aswell, not that it really matters as all this thread is about at the moment is the hypcrosy of owning a house on leased land for 30 years.

hmmm i really should look up how to spell those long words

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think now that you mostly like to argue

[thai_norman]

its just hyperthetical ajarn, i mean who gives a d.amn

david the treaty thingy is gonna run out real soon, there are lots of threads on here about it but i cant remember what the treaty is or was called, if one of the americans here is nice enough to tell you you can then do a search on it, if not just start a thread on it.

[stevehaigh]

ajarn, but your home is not your home if you are a farang, your home is either fully thai owned or company owned, well unless your american and got it under that treaty thingy, as most farangs in thailand aint american they cant use the treaty thingy so they go the company or thai wifes name route, therefor under thai law it is not their home, its some thais home or a group of thais home with the minority belonging to a farang.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As an American I am interested in the " Treaty Thing". Any info. you can give me would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

An Amity Treaty company allows Americans to own a majority share in a Thai company. But that company cannot own land in Thailand. To own land, the company must have at least 51% Thai share ownership and at least 7 shareholders.

[stevehaigh]

its not much good owning the house, if the land its stood on isn,t yours !

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But, from what I've read, some do just that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If push comes to shove you could have the house dismantled and build somewhere else. I know this sounds ridiculous but Thai people do this. In my family a piece of land was sold and the family member whose house was there just dismantled the house and rebuilt down the road on another family owned piece of land. It was not a big deal to them at all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

actually, i designed my house mostly out of wood, party so i could sell the wood if the khee hits the pat-lom on this whole 49/51% company thing.

[chownah]

its not much good owning the house, if the land its stood on isn,t yours !

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But, from what I've read, some do just that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If push comes to shove you could have the house dismantled and build somewhere else. I know this sounds ridiculous but Thai people do this. In my family a piece of land was sold and the family member whose house was there just dismantled the house and rebuilt down the road on another family owned piece of land. It was not a big deal to them at all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

actually, i designed my house mostly out of wood, party so i could sell the wood if the khee hits the pat-lom on this whole 49/51% company thing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I saw the drawing of your house and it does appear that the upper portion is wood. Is the deck on the open air top deck wood? And if so how will you keep rain water from seeping through to the floor below?

[udon]

The Hobby Scenario.

I'm growing a shedload of cuttings in my backyard for my garden.

I'm caught redhanded.

Verdict?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

The Hobby Scenario.

I'm growing a shedload of cuttings in my backyard for my garden.

I'm caught redhanded.

Verdict?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Anyone spending that long in a garden shed can grow cuttings legally.

[Khutan]

I saw the drawing of your house and it does appear that the upper portion is wood.  Is the deck on the open air top deck wood?  And if so how will you keep rain water from seeping through to the floor below?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

chownah;

I am not sure who you are talking to, but I can answet the question as the situation applies to me - Wood upper with both front and back upper decks.

The decks themself are made from those cement "planks" which are suspended from the concrete columns that support the entire house, using other beams.

They then pour a coat of cement over the top of it and the whole thing becomes one large cement floor. After that Ceramic tiles were laid on top.

I strongly suggest getting a covering over decks like that, as the sun will play havoc with the tiles with UV degredation and expansion and contraction from the heat.

thai_norman: I don't want to get into a fight with you, but this is how my legal advice went, that gets confirmed by the local police etc.

1. My Wife gave me permission to build a house on her land. The house is mine, the land is hers.

2. I built the house, had the party and all that.

3. This gets tricky, If everyone is happy, there isn't a problem, as she aways has my permission to enter the house and likewise I have permission to enjoy her land. But, If I refused her access for any number of reasons (e.g. The house has been rented, I am doing repair work and the house is dangerous, or I want to be nasty and not let her in) She can take several actions. If she agrees she should not enter the house, then she would take no action (I have acted reasonably). Or (after much negotiation) she can ask me to remove the house.

I strongly suggest if you want to get into the "who can enter a house or not" take the advice of a Lawyer like the forum sponsor. The in's and out's become very complicated.

Just finaly, there are many solutions to the 30 year lease agreement, but it depends on many things, like the title of the land, so get legal advice, it doesn't cost alot for a chat for an hour or two, but can save you alot later

[chownah]

I saw the drawing of your house and it does appear that the upper portion is wood.  Is the deck on the open air top deck wood?  And if so how will you keep rain water from seeping through to the floor below?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

chownah;

I am not sure who you are talking to, but I can answet the question as the situation applies to me - Wood upper with both front and back upper decks.

The decks themself are made from those cement "planks" which are suspended from the concrete columns that support the entire house, using other beams.

They then pour a coat of cement over the top of it and the whole thing becomes one large cement floor. After that Ceramic tiles were laid on top.

I strongly suggest getting a covering over decks like that, as the sun will play havoc with the tiles with UV degredation and expansion and contraction from the heat.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was actually asking stevehaig but thanks for the input. I"ve heard about those planks your talking about but never seen them installed. How thick is the concrete they put on top and do they put steel reinforcement in it?

[Jai Dee]

The Hobby Scenario.

I'm growing a shedload of cuttings in my backyard for my garden.

I'm caught redhanded.

Verdict?

I too am interested in the verdict... as I am doing exactly that.