ronwparker Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 I have spent over a year trying to get justice as my ex girlfiend and family drove me out of my house and resort near Chiangmai. I had a lot of gloomy predictions from other expats-many said just give up -you will never win. But there was an investment of about 60 Million Baht involved so I would not give up 1.We tried to evict them because I hold the legal leases -but needed a court order.-second hearing was 2 days ago 2.I tried two English speaking lawyers,both recommended highly and both worse than useless-they misunderstood my story and were lazy-did not even read important documents I sent them 3.Then I used a Thai only speaking lawyer whose colleage told me of a newish approach which he knew had worked.But I hired a fluent lovely girl student from CMU as translator. I had done all the research myself with my girlfriend as Thai lawyers expect you to do it alll for them 4.I found out we had grounds for a criminal case but although this was preceding I was not too hopeful as it was in the hands of the police and was maybe out of time(you are given only 90 days to report these things.) But less than a month ago I was told that if I could prove that all the money was from me then I can ask the court to force my ex to sell the land,house and resort in one year . I get a gauranteed amount in my pocket regardless of the selling price!After one year she has to leave the property ,give me back the company vehicle she is using,and the court will sell the wholle property-I get 80%. 5. She also has to pay me compensation since last March 1st until the property is sold equivalent to renting a good well furnished house untill I get my money,She has to pay the costs of sale. So she will end up with much less than 20% and I have nothing to do. SO THERE IS REAL HOPE FOR FARANG IN THE THAI LAW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lannarebirth Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 Congratulations on your winning the judgement. Let's hope your luck continues and it is executed to your satisfaction. Judgement and execution of judgement being two different things... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurnell Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 After 1 year she has to leave? Awful long time and so many things can happen in that time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxexile Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 Awful long time and so many things can happen in that time ..... and with 60 mill. in the pot you would do well to hire a bodyguard or three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancelot Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 Judgement and execution of judgement being two different things... I agree. Even on the US, its relatively easy for a plaintif to get a judgement. Actually collecting is a different thing entirely. Any way, good luck to you and thanks for sharing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 During the next year things will start disapearing from your resort and damage will be done if you are not careful. You need to be out there and take stock often. Bring a camera each time you go and record any irregularities. This will happen as her family will start remodeling their homes with your furnishings and pocket any money that can be made from the sale of your equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigWheelMan Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 Congratulations on your winning the judgement. Let's hope your luck continues and it is executed to your satisfaction. Judgement and execution of judgement being two different things... Very true. I sincerely wish you all the best, but wouldn`t break out the champagne just yet until the case is concluded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary A Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 I agree with the cautions. I knew a guy who was awarded 50 percent after 20 years of marriage. Three years later he had not received a single baht. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardt1808 Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 Congratulations Ron, This is excellent news indeed. I'm also really curious as to why the judgement is 'after one year' and not 'within one year'. I am currently entering into a property purchase deal with a Thai friend. We are both signing a an 'agreement of intent' which specifies that we are jointly paying a monthly repayment and occupying the property together. The agreement basically says that if, for whatever reason, we cannot continue the joint occupation then the property has to be sold and the sale price divided. Since we are not married, the bad old 'voiding of contracts' entered into during a Thai marriage will not apply and I think it protects both me and my partner in the event of anything acrimonious or unforseen. The judgement you are being awarded sounds like it is being awarded along a similar preponderance ie. If you are putting money into a deal, then you should be protected and do, in fact, have a claim on the overall asset bundle. The issue of being able to actually own the land is not the only component to be considered, so it is great that your judge also saw it this way. As someone above pointed out: be aware of your safety now - 12 months is more than enough time for them to plunder the assets and also try to remove you from the picture by one way or another. Keep us informed of developments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denim Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 With respect to the OP, I can't help thinking that investing 60 million baht in Thailand in conjunction with a girlfriend is not a good idea. That is an awful lot of money, which if left in a home country bank, would still pay out a reasonable interest even considering todays low rates. I make that 1.8 million at 3% or 150,000 a month !! Plenty enogh to live on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millwall_fan Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 Agreed. The law here can work in favour of Farangs if we have a strong case. The worry now is that your ex has lost face. Take some muscle up there every time you go near the place. And don't count your Satangs until they are safely in oyur paw! Congtrats on getting this far! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thailand Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 I fear that it is only one small step with huge problems to come, ex and family to contend with plus whomever they may bring in. If the judgment does result in your getting back some of your money back then I would think you have done extremely well. This being Thailand I would be watching my back or even vacating the country or at the very least the immediate area until all is resolved, drastic I know but not unrealistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuian Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 Find a foxhole and hide, keep suing her! And all the luck in the world - one step, many to follow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uptheos Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 Nothing to add to other comments, except to say good for you - well done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rohitsuk Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 "Lord luv ya, them what done er in would ave done er in for a at pin, much less a at". Eliza Doolittle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidOxon Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 Hi Ron long time no see hope it continues to go well for you David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPI Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 Well done! Keep taking the valium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getgoin Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 The law in Thailand is as good as the law in any country. The key is to work within the boundaries that are allowed to us. When you do this you will find that the Thai judicial system is more relevant than the western system because instead of relying on common law and prejudice they rely on common sense. If you have worked with the law the judges will reward you. They are usually well educated and they know what is going on. I wish the opening poster good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nakachalet Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 (edited) hi ron like other posters, i just wanted to say congrats on judgement awarded.... which is rare and infrequent in thai court indeed. but unlike other posters, i also do have a few annoying questions as to some of the reasons why your own ex-family members wanted you out of your own home and property that you helped built with enormous amount of money....? most thais or other pacificrims nationals are very grateful and thankful.... even if and when they find out that their grantors are somewhat actually means and insidious.... am not saying that you are.... and even after they discover that their grantors are actually using them for various personal intentions and purposes.... the beneficiaries would still stick by you and would support you.... though maybe begrudingly.... ron, what did you do or what did you NOT do behind the scene.... that perpetrated your disagreements and falling apart with members of your ex....? whatever they are.... they must be awful and intolerable in thai culture.... the appreciative locals may esteem and treat us like sort of royalty, hero or godlike.... but it will be ill advice for any farang to actually believe and act that way.... you invested some 60 mil baht which is equivalent to less than 2 mil in usd which is also an enormous sum for most farangs and thais alike.... to build your dream home and resort.... i am sure with enormous personal satisfaction and pride as well.... ron, my personal question to you is.... how much of your heart and time did you really invest in your ex-family....? ron, you really do not need to answer my invasive personal question.... but do search for the answer within your heart, ok? so you may enrich your life to the fullest in your current relationships.... wishing you best of the bests in this new relationship. Edited February 20, 2010 by nakachalet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackArtemis Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 Uhhh, to most likely scenario is greed on the account of the family. 60million is more than the vast majority of Thailand will make in several generations, something to great to resist. There have been so many accounts of things like this happening to many farang in Thailand. Maybe it's not that he hasn't been good enough but rather that you have yet to realize that knives hide behind smiles in this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nakachalet Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 (edited) Uhhh, to most likely scenario is greed on the account of the family. 60million is more than the vast majority of Thailand will make in several generations, something to great to resist. There have been so many accounts of things like this happening to many farang in Thailand. Maybe it's not that he hasn't been good enough but rather that you have yet to realize that knives hide behind smiles in this country. my prior appeal is a personal nature for ron's personal consideration so that perhaps it might enrich his current relationship and his future personal and business investment.... and that is my only true intention for ron.... for the many farangs in thailand, who have already attained certain level of satisfaction in life like ron.... there is yet a wealthier bunch in thailand, whose monthly income from interest earned alone exceeds million baht, who would by their own free will and choice donate a million or two at a time, to whichever organizations that may satisfy their personal objectives.... most of this bunch truly give with substance as well as their own selves and more importantly their hearts.... as well i salute all of you including many others who give their substances as well as their selves and heart to whatever projects or undertakings.... to improve and better human living conditions and lives. Edited February 21, 2010 by nakachalet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noise Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 (edited) What I read said you got an attorney's opinion on how the court should react. You wrote as if you have not been to court yet. I know someone who is going thru the same thing on a smaller scale (just for a house). So, quick recommendations, and them PM me if you want more. 1. Get your lawyer to identify the translator who will appear in court. It would most likely not be practical to use the student. And you want one that understands the law so when he/she translates either in or out of court you get the correct phrasing that clearly communicate the legal question being asked. You answering a mistranslated question could conceivably cause great harm. And your translator has to be in court all the time you are. 2. Be intimately involved in every aspect of the case. Ask that all papers submitted to the court also be translated into English so that you know exactly what is being written. You will have to pay for it, but you have better piece of mind knowing. And for 60M, well worth the expense. 3. Make sure you submit in writing to your lawyer everything you have told him; write it in English and have it translated into Thai. He may hear it translated, but it may not sink in. 4. Tell your lawyer everything, including things you think do not apply. The opposing side will bring up everything it knows in order to win its case. If you told the other side you had "XXX" and "YYY" problems in BKK 10 years ago, tell him. For example, if you kicked the family dog when it bit you once, tell him. Your lawyer needs to know you kicked the dog so that he is prepared to quickly object and say (a) that does not mean you beat the family daily and ( b ) that has nothing to do with the fact that you provided the funds to purchase this property. Edited February 21, 2010 by noise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaka Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Why is the ex and family not evicted straight away? If left for a year knowing what is going to happen, she is not going to go peacefully. Your property will most likely be wanting a thorough repair throughout and everything not bolted will be missing. And your company car ready forthe junkyard. If it can be found. Good luck man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffphuket Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Any sale will be through a government auction after the one year period (time given to find a buyer) and, if it doesn't sell, the price will be reduced by 20% at each subsequent auction until it does. Don't expect anything like the market value to be reached. My lawyer's charge was 20% for winning my case. Make sure yours earns every penny, assuming he's on the same rate. Good luck geoffphuket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLASBYCLAN Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 I am really confused as to how a girlfriend has any right to your property/belongings at all? You weren't married but she still managed to move her and her family in and steal your property, at which point did you not tell her to get the fxxx out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM7WGP Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Must be Easy to count on one hand as a farrang he is not allowed to own property in this land an all is in Girlfriend name. So when she get tired of him she owns everything, only that he maybe is holding the papers . So one year is a long time and accidents happen, so take care and have some eyes in your back all the time. God Luck you will need it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David006 Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 The OP is obviously a man of means....has titles to property ??? Would it not have been possible to "employ" an "alternative definitive final solution"...after all this is Thailand... Anyways good luck mate...makes my 50k settlement ( actually got the money!!)on 300K seem paltry....move on....enjoy life...sun..sea great food and a million beautiful ladies..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nakachalet Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 (edited) I am really confused as to how a girlfriend has any right to your property/belongings at all? You weren't married but she still managed to move her and her family in and steal your property, at which point did you not tell her to get the fxxx out? perhaps, u have not heard, farangs can not actually own land, even free and clear land and title bought with the love of our previous labor, be it in usd or pounds or euro.... so if we wish to own real properties, we need to put the title into our trusted thai counterpart.... got it? that is how, in time of trouble, our trouble multiplies.... but then i must also tell you that not every case ends up troublesome like that.... it all depends on the characteristics of the lady we entrusted it with.... thanks heavens.... mine works out fine.... and we (well, actually, she....) own several pieces of real estates and bunisesses.... but again, not every case is so fortunate to say the least.... Edited February 24, 2010 by nakachalet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronwparker Posted May 1, 2010 Author Share Posted May 1, 2010 Hi Thanks for your positive post.Sadly many posts here are negative or very sceptical. I have double checked with other lawyers: 1.She has an opportunity to sell as she is a partner in my company but for one year from the date of judgement- then court puts it up for auction. 2.If she sells she has to pay me a minimum of 40 million baht plus costs plus compensation plus my furniture (I allowed her to save face by keeping 20%). 3.This is because Thai law says proxy sales are illegal unless you sign sayting that the land is a gift-so never sign any agreement you dont like. 4.As the judge has signed and officailly stampedand stamped this I can get her evicted without any further court order.-the police have to action it. 5.It always to have a friend as a senior policeman in getting the law enforced. Luckily I do not rely on this money so it has not altered my life so I am not that worried about the auction price but we have friends in BKK who will bid at least 40 million . I was just trying to let others know(ignore the prophets of doom) 1.about the benefits of this new law for farang( your proxy buyer is strpped of ownership IF you can prove all the money was yours) 2.The best lawyers mainly do not speak English.So get a good translator-cheaper and better than an English speaking lawyer 3.Make sure they know about this law. Oh and yes I do have judgement dated 18th February 2010 l Congratulations Ron, This is excellent news indeed. I'm also really curious as to why the judgement is 'after one year' and not 'within one year'. I am currently entering into a property purchase deal with a Thai friend. We are both signing a an 'agreement of intent' which specifies that we are jointly paying a monthly repayment and occupying the property together. The agreement basically says that if, for whatever reason, we cannot continue the joint occupation then the property has to be sold and the sale price divided. Since we are not married, the bad old 'voiding of contracts' entered into during a Thai marriage will not apply and I think it protects both me and my partner in the event of anything acrimonious or unforseen. The judgement you are being awarded sounds like it is being awarded along a similar preponderance ie. If you are putting money into a deal, then you should be protected and do, in fact, have a claim on the overall asset bundle. The issue of being able to actually own the land is not the only component to be considered, so it is great that your judge also saw it this way. As someone above pointed out: be aware of your safety now - 12 months is more than enough time for them to plunder the assets and also try to remove you from the picture by one way or another. Keep us informed of developments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiangMaiFun Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 Good luck - hope you get the result - never, ever invest in property unless you have the chanot - there are 1000s of stories like yours. Personally I would never trust a Thai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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