Language Use Strategy With Young Child - What To Do?

[Wentworth]

I'm married to a Thai lady and now have 4 year old stepson. I've been here a while but unfortunately my Thai is only slightly more than the basic. I'm making a determined effort to boost my ability in Thai, by getting lessons etc. What I'm trying to do is make sure that my son learns English and Thai. I've tended to speak to him using what Thai I do know but often as not I have to use English. He's slowly getting to grips with mum and dad talking 2 languages.

So, what would you recommend so that I improve my Thai and he will improve his English. Should I consider asking my wife to mix the Thai and English with him - and perhaps with me as well. Do we just talk English in the house and Thai everywhere else. He's about to start a new school with a Mini English Program. I am a qualified English teacher but decided not to go that root with him as he only sees me as Daddy and it would be difficult to get him to think of me as a teacher every now and then. I will obviously help here and there but don't think it's a good idea to do formal teaching with him.

[Chaam local]

You shouldn't force yourself to speak Thai with your son or ask your wife to mix some English. English is your mother tongue so English will be more natural for you, and it's important for a child that the same person doesn't mix two languages. In other words, his mom can speak to him in Thai, and you can speak to him in English, wherever you are. Your son will quickly understand both languages. The 'English in the house and Thai everywhere else' solution can't really work, because practically it's hard to draw the limit (what if you are outside but only between the family, or what if you have Thai friends coming to your house, etc.).

Whether you use Thai or English with your wife is your personal choice, but it will probably be less confusing for the child if you choose one language and stick to it, rather than this horrible pidgin that some couples like to practice (broken English with a few Thai words thrown in).

In my case I always speak to my 3 yo boy in my mother tongue (which is French) and I speak Thai with my wife. I only speak Thai with my son when there is a general discussion and I don't want to exclude the other people around. My son now understands French and Thai perfectly, but he also knows I understand Thai, so until recently he always spoke to me in Thai. What I did though, is that I made him spend a lot of time with French people (family, friends coming to visit) and he began to speak French with them, as he realized that they didn't understand a word in Thai.

I hope it helps

Edited March 11, 2010 by Chaam local

[Wentworth]

Many thanks, I like the approach. By the way, my compliments on your very good English - I would never have guessed you weren't a natural English speaker/writer.

I was worried about giving him mixed signals if I talked in 2 different languages; I remember being in Gibraltar a few years ago and it was the worst thing - a high speed mix of Spanish and English in the same sentence; perhaps that's where they got the word 'Gibberish' from.

I will only talk English with him from now on, of course following your guidelines when you don't want to exclude others etc. When talking with my wife I think I will just use English. Bearing in mind my Thai ability, would it be better to continue using English with my wife and then when I get to a certain level, changing to Thai or continue using English? If I chose English with her full stop then I guess my Thai would improve whilst talking to others. My other thought is that her English is very good and I think it would be good for her to continue to learn. What do you think?

Regards

[kokesaat]

A good friend of ours married a woman with a 10 year old girl who could speak not more than a handful of words in English. Next year, they had a girl of their own. The father, (60+ from Mississippi) set the rules of the house: You can watch all the TV you want, but only in English. When you speak to me (the father) you will speak in English and I in English to you. You can speak to your Mom and your friends in Thai, but if the conversation includes me (the father) and Mom, you must speak in English.

The father never made an attempt at learning Thai and when he speaks with his wife, he uses plain English (not broken Thai-English as some folks do).

For a while I thought the guy was rather rough with his rules......but as time went on, his two girls soon became the benchmark (for me, anyway) in gauging other falang-thai families with kids. The oldest daughter is graduating from ABAC this year (4 year English program), and the youngest, now 10 herself, is the English standout in her Catholic school in Udon. Although I'm not in the market for another kid, if I ever did, I'd probably follow this guy's example.

[Chaam local]

Bearing in mind my Thai ability, would it be better to continue using English with my wife and then when I get to a certain level, changing to Thai or continue using English? If I chose English with her full stop then I guess my Thai would improve whilst talking to others. My other thought is that her English is very good and I think it would be good for her to continue to learn. What do you think?

I think it depends on your wife. How does she react to your learning Thai? Is she interested in your progress, is she willing to help you, does she try sometimes to speak Thai with you so you can practice? Or maybe you are closer to situation B: she doesn't seem to care much, she always speaks English to you (using Thai only when she doesn't know the equivalent in English), and she doesn't show any patience when answering your questions concerning Thai language.

If you are in situation A you're very lucky, as situation B seems much more common (plenty of reasons for that). Personally I was lucky that my wife didn't speak English when we met, and I could already speak some Thai. But even though, she didn't help me much and once she even said it was a pity that I didn't speak English to her. So I taught her some French instead, and sure enough she fell asleep in a middle of a lesson (which was to be the last lesson, lol).

[bina]

the recommended rule of thumb for polylingual families is: the native speaker speaks with child in native language, the other mother tongue speaker speaks in the mother tongue; in most cases, by the second or third child, everyone is speaking the languge of the country u are in (how can u live in a country and not speak at least broken language?)...

however, it also depends on how u're relationship with wife is> with first husband (hebrew speaker, i didnt speak hebrew at the time i got to know him, i spoke english with him, we spoke hebrew with the kids although the first child i spoke englissh with her, byt the next ones, it was just easier tospeak with her and friends in langugae of the country; other families here speak 3 languages so the two main languages were the mother tongues (engish and finnish/english and french/english and dutch/english and swiss german and spanish/sudanese ( )and thai/thai and the country langugae (hebrew) was learned from school. anyhow, as child gets older mostly everyone moved to speaking in thethird language (hebrew).

my eldest is fluent in english, the middle is ok, the third doesnt have understanding/speaking in more then the regular shcool english taught here...

second husband speaks thai, cannot/will not learn hebrew, doesnt speak english, so i speak thai... in mixed company i have to translate simultaneously; with my three kids, they speak simple hebrew with him, and they know some basic words in thai. no kids from him but i suspect i would be the english speaker , he the thai speaker and in mixed company, we would all speak hebrew...

these are th guidelines that most of us mixed language families received frmo the preschool advisors/child development counsellors that are used here... children with learning disabilities or delayed language problems due to physical or cognitie problmes we were told to use the main language of the country only (with my youngest); all three of mine are dyslexic so they all have permits to not test in written foreign language only oral...

forgot to add, whatever u speak with when u speak to your wife is not important for the child... when i met my first husband we met in english so it was hard for me to move over to hebrew. now divorced, he only addresses me (when we are requried to speak to eachother as we live near each other) in formal hebrew and he refuses to answer if i address him in english.

so language is also an emotional thing...

the language least used tends to be the third language not english and not the language of the country the child lives in... for obviously practical reasons like no tv in finnish/french/sudanese, no exposre to relatives apart from once a year contact and phone calls, resistance of the child to speak more then one language as its not useful for him/her, probably as the child gets older and wants to travel , interest stirs up the desire to reinforce the third (or fourth) language as it becomes useful.

bina

israel

btw, lots of discussions about this in the family forum..

[Cuban]

Within my extended Thai family circle there are about four European languages and two or three Asian languages being spoken regularly. The youngest (18 months) is already saying (although not perfect yet) words in the right language to the right person (Thai 80%, Norwegian 10% English 10%). Having seen some long term studies on language it seems kids brains just sort it out. If you can get access to a this UK programme via Bit-Torrents etc. watch this programme. The key as mentioned above is for the native speaker to speak their language, so to teach by example the accent, tone and rules that are difficult to learn in a classroom but come naturally in the learning rich environment of a kitchen where interactive things (that taste nice) are going on.

I use cooking with a niece that needs to improve her English.

....but don't think it's a good idea to do formal teaching with him.

Agreed - teach 'em when they are not looking or expecting it, I had thought about a formal sit down with a book, but it's like a classroom all over again at home with added distractions. I take advantage of situations as they arise, playing hang-man is a good one. Using words taken from glossy women's magazines. I used that to teach vowel content in words rules, she's getting better and more confident (bigger words) now.

HTH.

Edited March 14, 2010 by Cuban

[Wentworth]

Thank you to everyone, I'm grateful for the advice.

I have discussed it with my wife. We both think it's best for each of us to speak our mother tongue to him. She realises the situation I'm in, trying to learn Thai and is being supportive. I just need a strategy that we can both work to. I had a very good Thai teacher in my last city(too far away) before I moved to be where my wife lives. I am earnestly looking for a teacher. I am re-assessing my day to day life as I am just not learning fast enough. Basically, I'm not disciplined enough and want to change that; it's been very piecemeal since I met my wife. Prior to seeing my wife, I had a girlfriend who couldn't speak any English and so my Thai was moving on swiftly. I've been lazy since being with my wife. Apart from seeing a teacher, I plan to put aside an hour a day or so, to listen to the CDs I've got and practise script as well.

I will try and speak Thai to others as much as possible. Is it worth trying to think in Thai as well. By that I mean start off with numbers, colours, time and days of the weeks etc. How about language approach with my wife? She's willing to help. With my 'level' being so low, how do people go about interacting with their partners?

Back home in the UK I knew a science teacher who spent 10 years living in Spain on her own. She was fluent in Spanish as there was virtually no English spoken. She did speak English to the occasional tourist but in essence spoke Spanish. She ended up thinking in Spanish. It was quite funny when she came back to the UK and was still on auto pilot, speaking Spanish to everyone; it wasn't boasting or anything, she just forgot to adjust.

How about those of you with 3 or more languages spoken in a family. Do you still think in your mother tongue and then translate into the right language?

[bina]

i gave birth in hebrew...) although my midwife the first time round was an american, i was on autopilot so to speak and i think in hebrew more then english if u all havent noticed how bad my english is ....i also tend to have word glitches (maybe its early dementia?)-- ill ask my son for a tomatoe but i wont remember teh word for tomato in any language so end up saying: bring me the round red vegetable from the fridge.... whichmeans im not fluent. when u are completely fluent u arent supposed to have these glitches. my mother used to say that my (ex,israeli) husband would lose his language skills after 21:00 at night, due to tiredness. the same happens to me when i work night shift, my langaugaes all go off...

some phrases are more imbedded in my head then others in a specific language for instance anything partaining to child rearing: pacifiers (dummies), bottles, dolls whatever, the words come so much more easily in hebrew, since i raised my kids here and never dealt with kids in the states. same for livestock and agricultural terms.

certain phrases are easier in thai for whatever reasons so they slip out at work, much to the amusement of my co workers. when my eldest calls on the phone, she speaks in english but everytime she calls , i cant understand her, it sounds like gibberish until i tune in to english. now anon is rreally trying to speak hebrew (more useful for us then english, here)so i have to work extra hard to figure out what he is saying , and then answer in proper hebrew (that is the chosen method for teaching children. not using one word answers:

for instance: (ill use english as an example): i walking store. i will answer: good. you are walking to the store. when are u walking to the store. what will u do in the store.

if i was answering an english speaker: good. youre going to the store, what're u going to get there?

anon, until recently, had atendency to answer in hebrew with one word answers. both thai and hebrew speakers are what are called lazy speakers: i.e. they both have a tenedency to shorten words, use one word answers, or even in hebrew, non syllabilic sounds like clicking of the tongue when indicating 'no' or not answering at all when indicating 'yes' (u ask a question on the phone, the negative answer is the tongue click, the positive answer is,'bye ' and the phone is closed. which is why, in other threads about thais not saying 'bye' im not worried or bothered at all by that.

active daily living speech is by far teh best way, in my opinion , to speak a language. once u learn to answer in single word answers, u can start expanding the sentence structure. makesure u are gender concious my son has learned to answer even when i address him in the female form, as does one male co worker. also, our nouns have genders and i mix and mactch mostly from laziness because when i speak with officials, or want to make more of an impression, i can and do speak much more correct hebrew. my english on the other hand, has disintegrated completely... my vocab seemsto have shrunk as has complex verbal statements. most of us anglos here speak a sort of truncated english mixed with hebrew with eachother-- lazy heblish.

with some thais here, i mix hebrew and thai also. the funniest are th filipinas that have been here for a long time, switching between tagalog, english and hebrew, and some also thai with their boyfriends.

well, that was rather long... but hope it gave u some ideas...

bina

israel

[Johpa]

I have discussed it with my wife. We both think it's best for each of us to speak our mother tongue to him.

Absolutely the correct course of action. But be prepared in the beginning years for the kid to respond to you in Thai. Be happy, and don't get frustrated, with the child only showing comprehension and not a lot of production (speech) in English until later, or perhaps not until a trip overseas. But as long as there is comprehension you are succeeding in raising a bilingual child.

Edited March 17, 2010 by Johpa

[Cuban]

Just to add this comment: Among Thais, when they are talking to each I have often heard the odd English word used in preference to the Thai word that takes longer to pronounce, like 'copy'. for example.

I will try and speak Thai to others as much as possible. Is it worth trying to think in Thai as well. By that I mean start off with numbers, colours, time and days of the weeks etc. How about language approach with my wife? She's willing to help. With my 'level' being so low, how do people go about interacting with their partners?

She ended up thinking in Spanish...

In my experience it depends on the situation and if you are lost in your own thoughts or constructing a stream of thoughts to communicate verbally. It is on those occasions that the language bursts out of the mouth without translation in the heat of the moment.

I spent yesterday with a man from Belgium and although we conversed in English I had to encourage him to continue to talk when he wished to stop and find the prefect translation of a word as if there is flow of communication you can almost always find the right translation based on context. Something I find impossible with Thais (The few exceptions are Thais that have been educated overseas or lived in other countries of any period of time.), they appear to hit a mental roadblock without the concept or desire to communicate.

Do you still think in your mother tongue and then translate into the right language?

Here I tend to think within the vocabulary I am currently using, last night I had some stressful serious conversation in Thai, the words I used were not perfect but the flow was in Thai. But mostly I'm limited by a small Thai vocabulary which is itself limited to food, directions and dog related issues.

[meadish_sweetball]

Thinking will come naturally in situations where you need it. Doing more complicated maths than addition and subtraction in a different language is a challenge at first and requires a bit of extra practice, at least it has been that way for me.

Numbers are funny. My mobile phone number I've memorized primarily in Thai which means whenever somebody asks for it in Swedish or English I need to visualize the figures before my mind's eye and then 'read' them, whereas in Thai it's an automatic process, the way it usually is in one's native language.