THAI Plane Makes Emergency Landing In India

[lampard10]

hi

birds at 33,000 feet?

does a plane taking off from Bangkok to anywhere reach 33,000feet so fast ?

it's seems to me a bit short, and just between Thailand and Bangkok?

did the pilots said at what altitude they were when this happenned?

just wonderin'

francois

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

An Aircraft will take 15-20 mins to reach cruising height in normal circumstances. Except of course if it's a military jet fighter,then it's more like 15-20 seconds to reach 30,000 ft.

[Scott]

I agree that it was probably a "terrorist" bird and is most likely now taking refuge in Malaysia.

[bazmlb]

the thing that seems to be missing is the fact these windows are multilayer composite construction and can withstand more impact than the outer layer of the airframe can, its more likely a faulty seal on one of the windows than a broken window, the windows do open on most for emergency exit from the cockpit scenarios. Planes that they dont open actually have an Axe to hack thru them, which can take quiet some time if you have ever tried, i have seen strong man take several swings just to get the outer layer to crack.

Baz

[lampard10]

Thai plane makes emergency landing at Kolkata

--Agencies 2005-05-22

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

hi i've worked on a airport and the things i hear and see are sometimes so bad that the world outside never knows.

The airlines are under a lot off pressure to fly cheaper and more often.

Every hour the plane is on the ground,it kost a lot off money for the airlines.

I know that these things happen often and can be redused to a minimum by checking them more often,but one check kost a lot off money and time.

In some countries they have less rules and regulations for flying,so they can offer cheap tickets.

Its wrong that some actions are not been taken to save money and put lives at stake.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am sorry,but talking like that you've never worked at the sharp end. That is a load of bull what you have written. No Aircraft Engineer worth his salt would knowingly send an Aircraft in the air that is remotely a danger to the passengers or crew. OK a lot of snags are deferred, but only on non-essential services. You sound like one of these reporters that wants to make everything ten times worse than it is. Each and every system has two or three back-up systems,and in the event of a failure it has to be a failure of around 75% to be a danger. Most aircraft accidents are a cumilation of 5 or 6 events happening together,all major,yet if only 2or 3 occured there would be no danger. To say that us engineers allow a dangerous aircraft to take to the skies is an insult and a blemish on our characters. Please apologise instantly.

[aviador88]

I had just seen a UBC program in which something similar to event with the Thai airways plane had occured.  On the program it had shown that a 747 that was in midflight at its crusing altitude and speed had developed problems with pressure loss. The pilots heard a "hiss" type sound coming from the window on the captain's side of the plane, before they could drop to 10K ft. the window blew out, and took the captain with it. The first officer along with the communications officer held the captain by his feet against the pressure that was trying to pull him out. The first officer was able to land the plane at which they thought the captain was dead due to the extream tempertures and pressure he had to endure while on the outside of the 747.  The captain actually survived the incident to everyone's surprise. 

They were able to trace back and find that the cause of the window blowing out was from the aircraft engineer who replaced the window screen had used the wrong mounting screws to hold the window screen on place. He used the wrong screw because when he went to get the new screws, he used ones that were slightly smaller in size, but in the low light condition that he was in; they appeared to be normal in size. He never measured them to make a perfect match.

I am glad this was not the case of the Thai airways plane, or else we would be reading about the Thai airliner being downed or about the same incident as happend above.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh my gawd

People like you are the one's who read or see something and somehow manage to screw it up.

The aircraft involved was a BAC 11. A twin jet , British product and in the true traddition to do everything backwards compared to the rest of the world i.E. drive on the wrong side of the road, piston engine airplanes rotate the other way. Mixture control back, full rich, instead of lean ( I know I owned one ex Canadian military trainer) the window on the BAC was secured from the outside, vs the method used in all US build aircraft where it is screwed on from the inside which means, if all the bloomin bolts fall out the pressure of the airplane will keep the window in place.

Just my two Baht worth Greetings, the ol' Capt. happily retired.

[lampard10]

I had just seen a UBC program in which something similar to event with the Thai airways plane had occured.  On the program it had shown that a 747 that was in midflight at its crusing altitude and speed had developed problems with pressure loss. The pilots heard a "hiss" type sound coming from the window on the captain's side of the plane, before they could drop to 10K ft. the window blew out, and took the captain with it. The first officer along with the communications officer held the captain by his feet against the pressure that was trying to pull him out. The first officer was able to land the plane at which they thought the captain was dead due to the extream tempertures and pressure he had to endure while on the outside of the 747.  The captain actually survived the incident to everyone's surprise. 

They were able to trace back and find that the cause of the window blowing out was from the aircraft engineer who replaced the window screen had used the wrong mounting screws to hold the window screen on place. He used the wrong screw because when he went to get the new screws, he used ones that were slightly smaller in size, but in the low light condition that he was in; they appeared to be normal in size. He never measured them to make a perfect match.

I am glad this was not the case of the Thai airways plane, or else we would be reading about the Thai airliner being downed or about the same incident as happend above.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh my gawd

People like you are the one's who read or see something and somehow manage to screw it up.

The aircraft involved was a BAC 11. A twin jet , British product and in the true traddition to do everything backwards compared to the rest of the world i.E. drive on the wrong side of the road, piston engine airplanes rotate the other way. Mixture control back, full rich, instead of lean ( I know I owned one ex Canadian military trainer) the window on the BAC was secured from the outside, vs the method used in all US build aircraft where it is screwed on from the inside which means, if all the bloomin bolts fall out the pressure of the airplane will keep the window in place.

Just my two Baht worth Greetings, the ol' Capt. happily retired.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think the engineer in question used 4ba bolts instead of 2ba.............for the sceptics thats 8/32 instead of 10/32 roughly. But i assure you he didn't do it because he didn't have the right size. He did it cause he was stoopid

[spencerdharmagrafix]

Clearly a terrorist bird. If it were on a list, it would not be allowed in the air.

Are we getting just a bit crazy here?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Crazy about what? A cracked windshield on a cockpit window is very serious.

I am an Airport Rescue Fire Fighter and whenever something like this happens, we ALLWAYS respond to the runway at certain designated points on the airfield. Doesn't matter if it is a bird strike, hydraulic indicator lights or the runway is wet and the pilot is scared. We call it an IFE (In-flight Emergency).

They are very common. I would suspect that every large volume traffic airport recieves about 2-20 per week.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That doesn't surprise me at all..what does surprise me is how safe the most people feel in an aeroplane; I am always sxxx scared since the time i was sat drinking Jack Daniels in a beer bar on the sukhumvit road at 02:30 with an American guy who id met there a few days before.....all of a sudden he says; " Well i had just better get a bottle of whisky to take to the room and a girl too to keep me awake..no point in sleeping now. Why i asked, do you have to wake up early? No he said i got to fly a plane at 04:30 to Los Angeles...sounded ok till he told me he was the damned PILOT!!!!!.Since then i know that pilots surgeons and other such "highly qualified personnel" are just mistake making humans like the rest of us, and that society doesnt have everything under control like in mission impossible.Frightening to think that the guy driving your plane24 hours in the air hasnt slept and is drunk.I once saw a micro-surgeon smoke a joint before going in to perform surgery on some-ones throat too! So dont think that we are in safe hands always..humans are idiots and the world is in the hands of such.

[Thetyim]

"British product and in the true traddition to do everything backwards compared to the rest of the world"

So that would make this guy a rear gunner then

Edited May 23, 2005 by Thetyim

[cdnvic]

Believe it or not, the altitude record for a bird is 37,900 feet. It was a species of vulture with a 10 foot wingspread, sucked into a jet engine over the Ivory Coast of West Africa. Aircraft was damage but managed to land OK.

All well and good, but how was the bird?

cv

[Nordlys]

I'm more than amazed to learn that the pilots can actually manage to fly a plane in those circumstances. I mean, doesn't a commercial jet have to be flying at at least 300km/h to stay airborne? It's hard enough to drive a car at 100km/h without a windshield, let alone see and check gauges and display panels, go through the landing check list and communicate with air traffic controllers on the ground. Do they have goggles in cockpit ready for a case like this? Can pilots really talk over the radio in the blasting wind? I thought once the aircraft's windshield is blown out the plane is finished.

I think the engineer in question used 4ba bolts instead of 2ba.............for the sceptics thats 8/32 instead of 10/32 roughly. But i assure you he didn't do it because he didn't have the right size. He did it cause he was stoopid

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So that's all it can take to bring down a jumbo jet?

Edited May 23, 2005 by Nordlys

[cdnvic]

I am an aviation photo 'cut and paste' expert  and just to prove it here is a piccy

of an aeroplane and some birds.

Jet fuel is expensive these days and even BA is going to extrordinary lengths to cut costs. If you look closely you will see the tiny strings the birds are lifting by.

cv(CCAG) "Certified Civil Aviation Geek"

[Anon999]

Is half of the Thaivisa membership base aircraft engineers or pilots...? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe! So the inane comments do not go down too well.

[bambob]

]

Clearly a terrorist bird. If it were on a list, it would not be allowed in the air.

Are we getting just a bit crazy here?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What are you spouting on about. Bird strikes on take off is one of the most commonest forms of emergencies. Usually they get sucked into the engine,and if the bird is big enough,can blow the donkey. Other parts are also vunerable,ie control surfaces,antennae,radome,windscreen. That is the reason why Airport authoroties spend so much money on birdscarers,bird flares,thunderflashes etc. Bird strikes at altitude are rare,but nevertheless can still occur. Up there,your'e not going to hit a single bird,but a whole flock of them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well yesss, but it was more likely to be a sick buffalo on the runway that did it

[maerim]

When Aerospatial in Toulouse and B.A.C. in Bristol were developing Concord in the 60s.

The problem of bird strikes was a very real one for the first and only one come to that, civilian airliner to exceed flight at supersonic speeds.

The engineers designed a canon that worked off compressed air that could shoot dead chickens a various speeds from subsonic to supersonic at the plane.

When they checked the damage done they were amazed just how much catastrophic failure there was to the airframe, engines and cockpit glass.

They checked their calculations and found that they were correct and were at a loss to explain the damage until some bright spark had the idea to use ordinary dead chickens instead of frozen ones.

[lampard10]

When Aerospatial in Toulouse and B.A.C. in Bristol were developing Concord in the 60s.

The problem of bird strikes was a very real one for the first and only one come to that, civilian airliner to exceed flight at supersonic speeds.

The engineers designed a canon that worked off compressed air that could shoot dead chickens a various speeds from subsonic to supersonic at the plane.

When they checked the damage done they were amazed just how much catastrophic failure there was to the airframe, engines and cockpit glass.

They checked their calculations and found that they were correct and were at a loss to explain the damage until some bright spark had the idea to use ordinary dead chickens instead of frozen ones.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[thymode91]

Clearly a terrorist bird. If it were on a list, it would not be allowed in the air.

Are we getting just a bit crazy here?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Crazy about what? A cracked windshield on a cockpit window is very serious.

I am an Airport Rescue Fire Fighter and whenever something like this happens, we ALLWAYS respond to the runway at certain designated points on the airfield. Doesn't matter if it is a bird strike, hydraulic indicator lights or the runway is wet and the pilot is scared. We call it an IFE (In-flight Emergency).

They are very common. I would suspect that every large volume traffic airport recieves about 2-20 per week.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That doesn't surprise me at all..what does surprise me is how safe the most people feel in an aeroplane; I am always sxxx scared since the time i was sat drinking Jack Daniels in a beer bar on the sukhumvit road at 02:30 with an American guy who id met there a few days before.....all of a sudden he says; " Well i had just better get a bottle of whisky to take to the room and a girl too to keep me awake..no point in sleeping now. Why i asked, do you have to wake up early? No he said i got to fly a plane at 04:30 to Los Angeles...sounded ok till he told me he was the damned PILOT!!!!!.Since then i know that pilots surgeons and other such "highly qualified personnel" are just mistake making humans like the rest of us, and that society doesnt have everything under control like in mission impossible.Frightening to think that the guy driving your plane24 hours in the air hasnt slept and is drunk.I once saw a micro-surgeon smoke a joint before going in to perform surgery on some-ones throat too! So dont think that we are in safe hands always..humans are idiots and the world is in the hands of such.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[thymode91]

"British product and in the true traddition to do everything backwards compared to the rest of the world"

So that would make this guy a rear gunner then 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[george]

Update:

Boeing and Thai Airways investigate plane problems

BANGKOK: -- The national carrier, Thai Airways International has requested the help of the manufacturer Boeing to investigate the cause of a crack in a pilot's cabin window on a flight from Bangkok to Munich on Sunday.

An investigation team including Thai Airways engineers and aviation experts from Boeing will be set up, according to Thai airways officials.

The Thai Airlines flight TG 924, Boeing 747-400, with 330 passengers and 22 crews on board was forced to make an emergency landing in Kolkata after the pilots spotted a crack in the window two hours after it had left Bangkok International Airport.

Passengers spent a night in a Kolkata hotel before being transferred onto another aircraft which took them to Munich safely on Monday, THAI officials said.

The damaged aircraft was brought back to Thailand for investigation on Monday, said the airlines officials.

Company officials insist that its engineers conduct rigorous safety inspections of every aircraft before their flights.

--TNA 2005-05-24

[dezeure]

Everyone talking about bird strikes... Anyone ever thought of bad maintenance? When is the last time the window got replaced or maintained? Were the CORRECT SCREWS used? I remember a post about this before when incorrect screws were used to fixate the front wind shield. Was this on a Phuket Air?

Pressured cabins can make joints leak after a while... its common and normal; that's why they have preventive maintenance...

Cheers guys,

Sam

[planemad]

Everyone talking about bird strikes...  Anyone ever thought of bad maintenance?  When is the last time the window got replaced or maintained?  Were the CORRECT SCREWS used?  I remember a post about this before when incorrect screws were used to fixate the front wind shield.  Was this on a Phuket Air?

Pressured cabins can make joints leak after a while... its common and normal; that's why they have preventive maintenance...

Cheers guys,

Sam

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think people have concentrated on the bird strike theory simply because, under normal conditions, aircraft windscreens are unlikely to develop a crack. If the subsequent investigations reveal that the item has been recently replaced, then this might suggest some sort of maintenance error, otherwise, back to the bird strike theory..........

Your question about the use of the correct size of screw has been well illustrated within this thread, maybe if you spend a moment re-reading it you will find all the information you need, and no, it was not a Phuket Air aircraft.

I don't know it we will get to see any real feed back on this incident, however, I would be interested as I am still very much involved in aviation, particularly the training of young technicians. So, if anyone has any useful information regarding this incident, please share it with us.

Cheers.

[lampard10]

Everyone talking about bird strikes...  Anyone ever thought of bad maintenance?  When is the last time the window got replaced or maintained?  Were the CORRECT SCREWS used?  I remember a post about this before when incorrect screws were used to fixate the front wind shield.  Was this on a Phuket Air?

Pressured cabins can make joints leak after a while... its common and normal; that's why they have preventive maintenance...

Cheers guys,

Sam

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually if the windscreen has been changed and the screws were tightened up in the wrong order, it can cause stress leading to cracking. Once a windscreen is in place,the screws must be tightened diameterically opposed,and then torque loaded the same. I remember when I was in training I used a ratchet pump s/d and slipped. That was enough to crack the screen. I know now, never use a pump on windscreens. Also over tightening can lead to cracking. If you was to fit a new window and fully tighten the screws one after the other round the screen the thing will most definately crack. That's why engineers fit new screens, not ground handlers. They only clean them

[cdnvic]

Let's give the pilots credit for taking proper immediate action to prevent a catastrophy, and showing catagoricaly that Thai is a whole different animal (apologies to Frontier) than Phuket Air, The Mai Pen Rai In The Sky airline.

Good job crew!

cv

[lingling]

When Aerospatial in Toulouse and B.A.C. in Bristol were developing Concord in the 60s.

The problem of bird strikes was a very real one for the first and only one come to that, civilian airliner to exceed flight at supersonic speeds.

The engineers designed a canon that worked off compressed air that could shoot dead chickens a various speeds from subsonic to supersonic at the plane.

When they checked the damage done they were amazed just how much catastrophic failure there was to the airframe, engines and cockpit glass.

They checked their calculations and found that they were correct and were at a loss to explain the damage until some bright spark had the idea to use ordinary dead chickens instead of frozen ones.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry, urban legend.

http://www.snopes.com/science/cannon.htm

Chicken cannons are real but a 200mph chicken will cause the same amount of damage whether it is frozen or thawed. Immeasurable difference...

There is a pic of one in this article:

http://www.sae.org/aeromag/techupdate%5F3%2D00/05.htm

Edited May 24, 2005 by lingling

[maerim]

Sorry, urban legend. http://www.snopes.com/science/cannon.htm

Chicken cannons are real but a 200mph chicken will cause the same amount of damage whether it is frozen or thawed. Immeasurable difference...

You don't say?

This is whats called humour, take a look under the bed you might find yours with a bit of luck.

[lingling]

You don't say?

This is whats called humour, take a look under the bed you might find yours with a bit of luck.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I didn't see the smiley in your original post so I assumed that you actually believed it.

[waldwolf]

Cockpit window cracks, while rare, do occur from time to time.

A while back, a Japan Airlines (JAL) and an Alitalia (Italy) Boeing 777 experienced inflight cockpit window cracks. Both aircraft made emergency landings with no injuries. Boeing traced the problem to faulty wiring in the windows heater.

The 777's windshields are made of three layers of glass, acrylic and epoxy, and can become brittle in the cold, thin air at 30,000'+ cruising altitudes. Therefore, the windows are warmed by a heater to keep them elastic.

When one thinks about the variations of temperature, moisture, vibrations, etc. todays modern jetliners operate in, its a marvel of engineering we don't see more such incidents.

[Sphere]

Passengers spent a night in a Kolkata hotel...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Personally, I would have preferred the other alternative!

[Jing Joe]

Passengers spent a night in a Kolkata hotel...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Personally, I would have preferred the other alternative!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Chickens, birds, geese, frozen thawed etc. Naaaah you're all wrong.

The pilot has now admitted to being so fed up with Thai cusine and that the emergency landing was a ruse just to satisfy his appetite for some authentic "curry in a hurry".

[DaveYo]

Hmmmmm, I see here not one of you gave me the credit for shooting that frickin bird up to 37,000 feet plus and making it a bullseye hit.!!!!!!!!! You all should be ashamed of yourselves.

Only one person in this topic told the right specs of the Glass in the cockpits. Congratulations.

Now lets see, hmmmm seems we do have a lot of engineers doing that kind of practice on that B-23 bomber, giving that wonderful moonshine of a fanny to boot!!!!!!!!!!!

As to that statement of the passengers feeling nice and comfy in those planes, if they really truly knew what and how these planes were constructed, I can guarantee you we would have another Cabin Fever in the skies, plus deafness too!!!!!!!!!!

Now I will let the airplane experts continue their posts, since the real experts are smart enough to stay the hella out of a birds flight path.

Daveyo

[waldwolf]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In actuality, our "rear gunner" is not mooning anyone.

With both engines stopped and only what appears to be 1000-1500' altitude, he's probably trying to get his head between his legs, so he can kiss his arse goodbye.