Ubuntu Is A Joke

[BugJackBaron]

WM (Windows Managers)[/url], how can we have an intelligent discussion? And while I'm no Martha Stewart, I think the below screenshot looks just as good as anything out of OSX-ville.

(Note that I have a 1920x1080 on the left and a 1680x1050 on the right; hence the 30 pixel gap in the right half of the picture)

dave, user interface design is not only about the 'looks', it's about usability in general, intuitiveness, ease of use, how well things play together, the concept behind the UI, etc. Installing and managing the software on your PC is also an aspect of usability.

I dare say that Ubuntu's UI of course suffers from the fact that it is a collection of software developed by various persons/companies and are not under the supervision of a strong UI guru/department. I guess the Ubuntu team can only do so much to level out the usability aspects of the various applications they try to unite under one hood and introduce a global 'look & feel'.

Other OSes suffer the same problem with 3rd party apps. The Adobe suite on Windows used to bring some Mac style UI elements to Windows which was sometimes confusing for Windows users. With Linux the same problem appears on much 'lower levels' of the OS.

I think Linux has come a long way and improved a lot, but Ubuntu is not there yet where I personally would like to see it. The software manager that is not 'yet ready' to completely replace the standard tool set is one example.

For some those issues might be a show-stopper, other can easily accept it and embrace the many other benefits that Linux offers in other areas.

I don't think it benefits Ubuntu if users ignore or deny those problems. Which doesn't mean that all problems mentioned in this thread fall into this category and cannot be disputed.

I myself got pretty frustrated too when coming back to Linux with Ubuntu 9.10, see thread here.

I remember dave_boo recommended openSuse to me which has a longer history of smoothing the user experience and provides a all-in-one configuration & management tool to ease system maintenance.

welo

Perhaps I'm still stuck in the 80's. You remember back when getting a DOS prompt was what a freshly booted computer gave you? The standards that I hear flung around regarding 'usability' and 'design interface' are so arbitrary and subjective it's really impossible to refute them.

I have yet to have found any dialouge boxes out of place in Gnome/KDE (although I still don't like KDE 4.xx!) nor found glaring instances of things not 'playing together'. I may be one of the odd men out, but I prefer my applications to be slightly dissimilar; the confusion of whether the app I'm in does what I need it to or not is quickly re-enforced by the different looks. This is across OSes, for instance I don't expect my Windows apps to look alike if one transcodes dvds to *.mkv and the other then burns them to a disk for instance. I would love to hear examples of low level 'look & feel' discordance you are refering to.

I also believe that some of the disconnect experienced by former Windows users comes from them not understanding an olde tyme *nix principle; to whit, "<I>Make each program do one thing well." I.E., while there are attemts to shove multiple programmes into one GUI, the best tool is one that will just 'git 'er done'. Further down that article it has a quote that put quite a smile on my face "Unix is user-friendly. It just isn't promiscuous about which users it's friendly with."

I also find the insistence that the software manager be a one stop shop a bit disconcerting. For instance, while you can use the control panel to uninstall programmes in Windows (and with quite a bit of difficulty, much more than in Linux's package managers anyways, install programmes), it's not really a valid comparison. Even, in at least the iPhone and perhaps OSX itself, the 'App Store' is seperate from the system settings is it not? And isn't Apple's solutions the most elegant out there?

And I do love my SuSE, but this is an Ubuntu bashing thread and I have to defend all distros.....

 As a former distro hopper I will join and say other distros don't need defending.

Many are simply better than Ubuntu which has never worked well for me.

Check out, PClinux, SimplyMepis, Fedora or even PC-BSD(not linux but a cousin).

Easier to get stuff like java - including plugins - working.

Ubuntu is great on hype though.

[dave_boo]

As a former distro hopper I will join and say other distros don't need defending.

Many are simply better than Ubuntu which has never worked well for me.

Check out, PClinux, SimplyMepis, Fedora or even PC-BSD(not linux but a cousin).

Easier to get stuff like java - including plugins - working.

Ubuntu is great on hype though.

It is amazing that those who rely on hyperbole to make their points have not addressed valid criticism of their 'points' (which boils down to it doesn't look purty, it doesn't do things like Windows/OSX, and it's not set up like they want and they have to learn).

A malicious attack on one distro is an attack on the whole ecosystem; if they can drive FUD into peoples' minds about Ubuntu (which sadly many assume IS GNU/Linux), than it could discourage adoption of a real distro. Providing alternatives during debates is, in my mind, the best way to help uptake of our OS.

Ubuntu in and of itself isn't too shabby; I've found some of its derivatives to be even better with Linux Mint getting a special nod. However the Debian way isn't my way and I'm afraid I'm just as stubborn as those I am chastising coming from a Window's background.

I haven't tried to use PClinux or SimplyMepis (same-same as Mepis?), but they're Debian clones....Fedora was used back in the day along side of SuSE, but I got away from it. PC-BSD never had the support that I craved, plus they're kissing cousins to those masturbating monkeys of OpenBSD and all the luggage that goes with that. I've had a lot of luck running Slax and back in the day LG3D (although LG3D was like 3 years ago, I thought it was a pretty cool idea and attached a screenshot I found)

Also farted around in Slackware and some Nexenta, but I keep gravitating back to SuSE.

[Crushdepth]

I am still of the opinion that operating systems and computers need to get used to people rather than the other way around.

One, I decided if I have to look at a computer all day long, I might as well look at something pretty.

Fully agree. Point one is where we are going but nobody arrived there yet - especially Linux.

I actually like and use Ubuntu a moderate amount. There's nothing wrong with a distro 4 dummies, but its not dumb enough yet IMHO.

[SeanMoran]

I am still of the opinion that operating systems and computers need to get used to people rather than the other way around.

One, I decided if I have to look at a computer all day long, I might as well look at something pretty.

Fully agree. Point one is where we are going but nobody arrived there yet - especially Linux.

I actually like and use Ubuntu a moderate amount. There's nothing wrong with a distro 4 dummies, but its not dumb enough yet IMHO.

It just goes to show that just when you think you realise how stupid the average Internet user is, don't be too sure, for they're even stupider than you imagined.

[filingaccount]

Personally I would love to move away from Windows to any linux distro full time.

It does lack many of MY needed programs though.

GIMP just doesn't cut it as a very important example.

Proper video editing doesn't really exist.

Proper VGA card drivers are hard to find and update rarely. If anyone can find me a WORKING ATI mobility x1700 driver for any linux distro that will allow me 1280x800 resolution I would be willing to buy you a beer (after verification of proper operation of course).

Yes, I am stuck at 1024x768 on a 1280x800 LCD screen in linux....

Now I just use Linux for the odd task and when I want to fart around a bit.... sad really as I am ready to move away full time from the bloated, slow and power hungry Windows versions.... (and no "buy a mac" comments.)

I do like Puppylinux though, particularly lighthouse pup. Probably the fastest distro out there... and extremely tiny with the basic (fully functional) install.

[volk666]

So the OP tried to install .rpm on Ubuntu, easy mistake to make. Then he decided to debug Java installer - a very cocky way to make friends with Linux, resulted in a lot more negativity.

Then he found that the easy, mouse click way gives him an older version of Java. Fair question to Ubuntu team but certainly doesn't deserve all the drama.

Then he tried to install the latest version from Sun which itself builds only for Red Hat/Suse. A lot more frustration.

Reads like Lemony Snickster series of unfortunate events.

All for what?

My OpenSuse has only java 6.0 in the repos and I find it satisfactory. What is so important about latest version that makes it absolutely necessary to have? Personally, I got used to the lag between releases for Windows and Linux and it doesn't bother me anymore. Opera is still 10.10 for Linux, for example, four or five releases behind Windows, which is 10.54. Latest 10.54 beta for Linux is working on one of my computers but not on the other and, honestly, I forgot that there's a difference.

If there's such a great need for 6.20 maybe Nickster should use platforms that support it instead of forcing it on Ubuntu. It's not like getting another Linux distro is going to take a whole day and wipe out all your data. There might be a problem with fixing a bootloader afterwards as Ubuntu uses a newer version that might not be recognized by older distros but it's editing only one line in grub to make sure Ubuntu loads correctly when you select it on boot, if you want to keep it at all.

Updating Java on Windows has always been a problem for me, too, btw. I can't count how many times that annoying updater on XP has popped up with news of an update and then crashed, and fixing that thing just doesn't look like worth the effort, judging by the quick glance at google results. I'm happy with Sun's Office and Virtualbox but Java is even more troublesome than Adobe flash.

About different ways of managing your software - it sounds like a BIG plus to me but my attitude to computers is not the same - I like the opportunity to be in control. Right now I'm updating the OS from command line, it's faster, easier and more reliable than GUI. For other tasks, like searching for available programs, GUI managers are better.

Does repo system stifle the development? I'm not sure. How difficult it is to get your application in an official repo? How difficult it is to get into numerous unofficial repos? Is it really a disadvantage if your software is not in there? How difficult it is to set up your own repository and provide your own dependencies?

Personally, when I need some program I search on the Internet first, not in repos - they just don't give you as much information on what a program does or doesn't as developers and reviewers.

Ubuntu has its own, serious limitations - commitment to a new version every six months, and only open source software on install. The first one is an arbitrary deadline that must sacrifice quality at some point, the second limits user experience as people have to manually add non-Oss repos and all kinds of popular codecs and software. Ubuntu based Mint takes care of that on install.

Gimp, Open Office or Inkscape are perfectly fine for average folks but would probably come out short for power users. No surprise there. They don't have any free alternatives in the Windows world either. Should Adobe/MS sell Linux versions of their products? Not much of a market, I'm afraid.

ATI has an  X1700 supporting driver available for OpenSuse, afaik. It might not replicate all features available for windows but should at least take care of the resolution issue.