Bangkok: 10+ Dead, Hundreds Hurt In Bangkok Clashes

[CosmicSurfer]

....

He disputed that a government spokesman denied knowledge of use of live ammuntiion.

That spokesman is denying in that video.

I can't get him to watch the video for whatever reason.

propaganda....something something...cynical agenda...something something....

Why do you have to rely on anyone other then The PM of Thailand admitting on a national Broadcast that the Army is carrying and is authorized to Use Live ammunition in limited cases... "To fire into the Air, and if directly attacked, to defend themselves."

What is this Issue here? Why should I listen to an underling or some person purporting to be a Government spokesperson, when the horse has spoken?

The Army has and is authorized to use live ammo.. Enough said. Get over it!

CS

Edited April 11, 2010 by CosmicSurfer

[justSumGai]

so, the fight in the streets is not enough it seems. Here too. Bah. Nothing better to do?

[MellowYellow]

Right, OK you are being both intentionly obtuse and dishonest.

Carry on advocating the use of tanks and flamethrowers on civilians.

I shan't waste anymore time with you.

Huh? What in the world are you on about? Calling anyone who points out your lies obtuse doesn't make your lies any less false. Who is advocating the use of tanks and flame throwers on civilians?! Are you playing with a full deck?

What lie are you babbling on about?

[granuaile]

The solution as i said before was very simple . If you are the PM and yu can not negociate or stop a protest except by using live ammunition then you simply RESIGN . There is no shame in that at all . Abhisit is very very much disliked in the country side FYI , he is a golden boy with a pretty face acting as a lap dog to those who are responsible for the misery of the Isaan ppl (3000 baths per month , familly of 4 , try to live on that) and moreover he stole their vote . Had he resigned he would have triggered a political crisis followed by a move by the whole political class to form a governement of national unity and they stood a very good chance to have negociated with the reds . No need elections in 15 days for that .

It would be irresponsible to resign until the city has been cleared of violent protesters. After that he probably will. It may even be part of the negotiations. However, until the redshirts are willing to negotiate, and the result of that negotiation is the cessation of all demonstrations, the PM cannot step down.

It became somewhat violent when Abhisit tried to shut down the TV station

but no deads or serious injury which proves that police can prevail without

lethal force .

Sorry the PM should step down by now , he is responsible for the blood shed

Are you simply unable to see reality.

+ The governemnet fired no live ammunition at reds

+ grenades and live ammunition were used by reds against troops (read the reports yourself just check out the news sources)

And you say Abhisit is responsible! That he should resign and take responsibility for the other sides terrorism!!! The leaders of the reds should take responsibility and surrender themselves to the authorities for prosecution!

[Moonrakers]

THE NATION: Red protesters are reportedly chasing away reporters gathered at the back stage too.

The hypocrisy is baffling.

[yoshiwara]

Completely irrelevant to Thailand

I tend to agree that detailed comparisons with the law enforcement agencies of other countries is of limited value.

Unfortunately some wish to make patronising remarks about the Thai system.

They then try to cherry-pick something from their own country.

And then tie themselves in knots justifying the comparison.

The bottom line is that they want to have a go at the Thai military and imply that the Thais are less civilised.

Not impressive.

[tominbkk]

So it is very obvious now that the reds started the firefights last night. You can clearly see black clad 'warriors' in the crowd with the reds, adorned with AK47s.

If you are a soldier and someone starts firing on you, I doubt you will keep shooting with rubber bullets.

In fact, it would not surprise me a bit if these warriors of Khattiya were instructed to engage in a little intentional 'friendly fire' techniques to stir up the red mob.....now the reds have bodies they have snatched from the mortuary to parade around town for days on end....what animals! How would you like to be watching TV and see your son's corpse being paraded around like some trophy...disgusting!

[MellowYellow]

....Who is advocating the use of tanks and flame throwers on civilians?! Are you playing with a full deck?

I am afraid you are right , next time who can say it wont be tanks and flame throwers .

That would be a perfectly appropriate and justified response to red mob grenades, fire bombs and AK47s. Don't forget the red shirt leaders have already declared WAR on the government. They will reap what they sow. A sad day for all Thais.

Yeah so that would be YOU advocating tanks and flamethrowers.

I apologize for the obtuse, comment, I mixed you up with Cosmic something guy.

Your rambles got mixed up in my posts.

[humfurry]

The solution as i said before was very simple . If you are the PM and yu can not negociate or stop a protest except by using live ammunition then you simply RESIGN . There is no shame in that at all . Abhisit is very very much disliked in the country side FYI , he is a golden boy with a pretty face acting as a lap dog to those who are responsible for the misery of the Isaan ppl (3000 baths per month , familly of 4 , try to live on that) and moreover he stole their vote . Had he resigned he would have triggered a political crisis followed by a move by the whole political class to form a governement of national unity and they stood a very good chance to have negociated with the reds . No need elections in 15 days for that .

It would be irresponsible to resign until the city has been cleared of violent protesters. After that he probably will. It may even be part of the negotiations. However, until the redshirts are willing to negotiate, and the result of that negotiation is the cessation of all demonstrations, the PM cannot step down.

It became somewhat violent when Abhisit tried to shut down the TV station

but no deads or serious injury which proves that police can prevail without

lethal force .

Sorry the PM should step down by now , he is responsible for the blood shed

Are you simply unable to see reality.

+ The governemnet fired no live ammunition at reds

+ grenades and live ammunition were used by reds against troops (read the reports yourself just check out the news sources)

And you say Abhisit is responsible! That he should resign and take responsibility for the other sides terrorism!!! The leaders of the reds should take responsibility and surrender themselves to the authorities for prosecution!

Don't confuse him with facts. He's made up his mind.

[granuaile]

The Nation hasn't reported it yet, but that other newspaper has. Now there are around 1000 reds at Thaicom, and more are streaming in. TNN is covering it and a phone-in report confirms that.

Led by five Phua Thai MPs, they are beginning to face off with the police now.

About time the PT step in .

Yes it is - so they can be held accountable for abetting criminal activities...

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

Looks like Thai Government are well and truly in bed with their friendly generals in Burma.

Only last week a promise was made to the delegates of the International Parliamentary Union Meeting hosted in Bangkok that as a Democratic thinking country Thailand would not resort to to repressive actions against their own people.

The World will now be laughing at them ....but NOT in a funny way......sad

Exactly. Closing down a TV station and using the army to disperse a demonstration probably equals to repressive actions. (allthough some people on this forum seem to think that such actions are perfectly allright).

Give your head a shake, or are you being sarcastic??? Any developed country in the world does consider shutting down and station that is using propaganda to incite civil disobedience. That staion and many others have been calling for war, blood and even the assassination of the current leaders (they should ahve been shut down months ago).

Every developed country also considers it allright to take back areas of the city being held hostage (illegally) by a special interest group with outside influences.

It has been said too many times to count but maybe one time you will lsiten, the reds are calling for war, the reds clearly attacked to army and they got their much sought after outcome.

To now try and make yourselves out to be the victims is pathetic. The reds are responsible for ALL of this mess. Take responsibility !!!

[hammered]

Amarin Phachonyut:

"Tear gas responsible for chaos among troops at kokwoa intersection. The chaos triggered a misfire of M79 that drop in the command area instantly killed a commander and fatally wounded 3 others. LtGen. Walit lost his legs.

The troops in the front line thinking they were attack from behind turned around and started firing wounding 20 other officers.

After the mess, Prayuth held a meeting demanding other commanders support him in a coup. They all turned him down flat, and instead demanded he take responsibility for the mess."

http://www.facebook.com/UDDThailand?ref=nf

So are they saying Sae Daeng is a liar?

[MellowYellow]

Are you simply unable to see reality.

+ The governemnet fired no live ammunition at reds

+ grenades and live ammunition were used by reds against troops (read the reports yourself just check out the news sources)

And you say Abhisit is responsible! That he should resign and take responsibility for the other sides terrorism!!! The leaders of the reds should take responsibility and surrender themselves to the authorities for prosecution!

I'm afraid you guys are getting your government talking points all mixed up.

One poster is claiming the PM specificlly stated live ammo was authorized and used.

Another poster is claiming it was only used to shoot above the heads.

International media is reporting it was fired straight into crowds.

And yet another government spokesman is saying in an ALJazeera interview "We must investigate IF it was used and by whom?"

It seems fairly obvious it WAS used. Just look at the most graphic picture of the dead protester with his head opened up with a clear GSW to the skull.

Now if you could all huddle up and deal with whether or not it was authorized and who used it.

[granuaile]

What is the PAD station doing ? Inciting hate and spitting lies . hel_l those yellow clowns dont even believe in democracy in the first place .

Give us a break will you

Unlike the reds the yellows have a bit of civility and decorum about them. As to whether they believe in democracy who gives a rat's *** - I don't believe in democracy either and I don't support a side because they spout democracy as some sort of magical mantra. The period following the 2006 coup were the most stable Thailand has had in a long time both before and after. Allowing the red side to buy another election was a big mistake... Do you think the reds believe in democracy?

[neverdie]

Completely irrelevant to Thailand

I tend to agree that detailed comparisons with the law enforcement agencies of other countries is of limited value.

Unfortunately some wish to make patronising remarks about the Thai system.

They then try to cherry-pick something from their own country.

And then tie themselves in knots justifying the comparison.

The bottom line is that they want to have a go at the Thai military and imply that the Thais are less civilised.

Not impressive.

AGREED.

[sjaak327]

Looks like Thai Government are well and truly in bed with their friendly generals in Burma.

Only last week a promise was made to the delegates of the International Parliamentary Union Meeting hosted in Bangkok that as a Democratic thinking country Thailand would not resort to to repressive actions against their own people.

The World will now be laughing at them ....but NOT in a funny way......sad

Exactly. Closing down a TV station and using the army to disperse a demonstration probably equals to repressive actions. (allthough some people on this forum seem to think that such actions are perfectly allright).

Give your head a shake, or are you being sarcastic??? Any developed country in the world does consider shutting down and station that is using propaganda to incite civil disobedience. That staion and many others have been calling for war, blood and even the assassination of the current leaders (they should ahve been shut down months ago).

Every developed country also considers it allright to take back areas of the city being held hostage (illegally) by a special interest group with outside influences.

It has been said too many times to count but maybe one time you will lsiten, the reds are calling for war, the reds clearly attacked to army and they got their much sought after outcome.

To now try and make yourselves out to be the victims is pathetic. The reds are responsible for ALL of this mess. Take responsibility !!!

A government using the army to break up a protest has lost the plot and should indeed take responsiblity and step down immediately.

Even Samak showed more restraint during the PAD protest not so long ago. Nothing more needs to be said really.

[granuaile]

Unlike many here with their statements like , kill em all , they deserve it , am not fanning the flames . But perhaps you prefer parrots who repeat the same mantra . Am sorry if i disturb you

It's just that my computer emits a stench like a sty when your posts are displayed. If I were nice I would say you are naive, misguided, uninformed, but I'm not nice. Especially to apologists for the redshirt thugs.

[tominbkk]

It seems fairly obvious it WAS used. Just look at the most graphic picture of the dead protester with his head opened up with a clear GSW to the skull.

That's one scenario...another might be that a red-shirted country bumpkin with a homemade grenade launcher pointed it the wrong way......

[granuaile]

These protests aren't like the ones we have in europe, protesters are more heavily armed this is why live ammo is needed from other protests red and yellow we have seen people with guns.

If the protesters had sat down no weapons and then let the army move them they could have scored some points but instead they choice violence.

Seems like the reds did not read the definition of "peaceful protest" before blurting it all around. But in the end say "peaceful protest" often enough must count for something...

Interesting that they spout "peaceful protest" but automatic weapons, grenades, and petrol bombs suddenly appeared by magic...

[snorkelador]

Are you simply unable to see reality.

+ The governemnet fired no live ammunition at reds

+ grenades and live ammunition were used by reds against troops (read the reports yourself just check out the news sources)

And you say Abhisit is responsible! That he should resign and take responsibility for the other sides terrorism!!! The leaders of the reds should take responsibility and surrender themselves to the authorities for prosecution!

I'm afraid you guys are getting your government talking points all mixed up.

One poster is claiming the PM specificlly stated live ammo was authorized and used.

Another poster is claiming it was only used to shoot above the heads.

International media is reporting it was fired straight into crowds.

And yet another government spokesman is saying in an ALJazeera interview "We must investigate IF it was used and by whom?"

It seems fairly obvious it WAS used. Just look at the most graphic picture of the dead protester with his head opened up with a clear GSW to the skull.

Now if you could all huddle up and deal with whether or not it was authorized and who used it.

I would not be surprised if live rounds were fired by some soldiers. Once attacked with grenades and live ammunition they should be allowed to use live ammo to defend themselves. Do not confuse those armed street fighters with peaceful demonstrators! Of course, not all of them were armed and dangerous, but the questions remains, why were those hostiles not stopped by the red shirts guards, real red shirts or other peace loving demonstrators or why did those peaceful people not leave upon seeing those fellows shooting rifles, throwing grenades and petrol bombs?

Anyway, the only way to stop this would have been calling it off by the red shirt leaders, who actively instigated violence instead. They asked for it repeatedly until their followers got it. What a league of extraordinary gentlemen...

And just for the record, the yellows leaders were in fact not that much different, just the movement itself was not as armed and violent.

Edited April 11, 2010 by snorkelador

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

Are you simply unable to see reality.

+ The governemnet fired no live ammunition at reds

+ grenades and live ammunition were used by reds against troops (read the reports yourself just check out the news sources)

And you say Abhisit is responsible! That he should resign and take responsibility for the other sides terrorism!!! The leaders of the reds should take responsibility and surrender themselves to the authorities for prosecution!

I'm afraid you guys are getting your government talking points all mixed up.

One poster is claiming the PM specificlly stated live ammo was authorized and used.

Another poster is claiming it was only used to shoot above the heads.

International media is reporting it was fired straight into crowds.

And yet another government spokesman is saying in an ALJazeera interview "We must investigate IF it was used and by whom?"

It seems fairly obvious it WAS used. Just look at the most graphic picture of the dead protester with his head opened up with a clear GSW to the skull.

Now if you could all huddle up and deal with whether or not it was authorized and who used it.

Ok, stop with the half truths already. The army was given a clear mandate and this is well documented. They were instructed to use a several step process in dealing with protestors.

Shields, batons, tear gas, water cannons, rubber bullets etc. and when the reds escalated the violence (which you can clearly see on the videos) and started attacking and injuring and killing the soldiers, they were then left with their last resort which was lethal force.

Reds have been calling for war, violence and bloodshed just so when they get it they can try and spin it to their advantage. Luckily we are living in an age where these types of things are very well videoed and it is all there for the whole world to see.

The reds asked for it they got, now take responsibilty for your own actions. Let the dead RIP with dignity and take them off the stage. Go back home and enjoy Songkran with your loved ones and wait for the elections in 9 months, then your voice can be heard in a legal and orderly fashion.

[BigBikeBKK]

....Who is advocating the use of tanks and flame throwers on civilians?! Are you playing with a full deck?

I am afraid you are right , next time who can say it wont be tanks and flame throwers .

That would be a perfectly appropriate and justified response to red mob grenades, fire bombs and AK47s. Don't forget the red shirt leaders have already declared WAR on the government. They will reap what they sow. A sad day for all Thais.

Yeah so that would be YOU advocating tanks and flamethrowers.

I apologize for the obtuse, comment, I mixed you up with Cosmic something guy.

Your rambles got mixed up in my posts.

Mixing my posts up with someone else's and taking quotes out of context isn't the only thing you have mixed up.

I abhor violence and have NEVER advocated the use of tanks or flamethrowers on unarmed civilians.

Someone else said something about tanks and flamethrowers and I replied that if attacked by a mob, armed with firebombs, grenades and AK-47's that has declared WAR on the state that the army would be justified to respond to such armed insurrection with tanks and flamethrowers.

This is not advocacy, but you've demonstrated already that you are confused and do not comprehend the discussion at hand so let's leave it at that.

I hope and pray that the situation can be resolved without further violence, but it's equally clear that the red shirts leadership is calling for more violence. Violence begets violence. If they do not back down they will get what they are asking for and it will indeed be yet another sad day for Thailand.

[BigBikeBKK]

Looks like Thai Government are well and truly in bed with their friendly generals in Burma.

Only last week a promise was made to the delegates of the International Parliamentary Union Meeting hosted in Bangkok that as a Democratic thinking country Thailand would not resort to to repressive actions against their own people.

The World will now be laughing at them ....but NOT in a funny way......sad

Exactly. Closing down a TV station and using the army to disperse a demonstration probably equals to repressive actions. (allthough some people on this forum seem to think that such actions are perfectly allright).

Give your head a shake, or are you being sarcastic??? Any developed country in the world does consider shutting down and station that is using propaganda to incite civil disobedience. That staion and many others have been calling for war, blood and even the assassination of the current leaders (they should ahve been shut down months ago).

Every developed country also considers it allright to take back areas of the city being held hostage (illegally) by a special interest group with outside influences.

It has been said too many times to count but maybe one time you will lsiten, the reds are calling for war, the reds clearly attacked to army and they got their much sought after outcome.

To now try and make yourselves out to be the victims is pathetic. The reds are responsible for ALL of this mess. Take responsibility !!!

A government using the army to break up a protest has lost the plot and should indeed take responsiblity and step down immediately.

Even Samak showed more restraint during the PAD protest not so long ago. Nothing more needs to be said really.

Ah, another revisionist historian- Why don't you brush off the history book and you'll be reminded that in fact Samak was impotent against the PAD because neither the police nor the army would follow his orders to move against them.

[TITI1971]

Interesting that they spout "peaceful protest" but automatic weapons, grenades, and petrol bombs suddenly appeared by magic...

And rubber bullet becoming live bulllet in evening just after some peoples died.... All the day they lied to us and all the week was lier in government too specially the one who said he will take full responsability to give full power to army and police to "clean" bangkok from demonstrators...

Today this guy still in charge of government and say it is still the fault of other side... give him some baby powder and put him in bed and sing a nice song to give him a nice sleep... The little mistakes of broken law is the responsability of reds but it's not their fault if so many peoples died because of police or army charge... the fault they have done is sentenced by real short time jail... killing peoples is full live term jail... or nothing if you are in the good dictatorshiped side of politics...

[LuckyFive8888]

Maybe they were shot from the rear by red shirts behind them!

I hypothesize this as a more likely scenario.

I't not impossible. With that crowd a gunshot fired can easily hit someone by accident; stray bullet.

Edited April 11, 2010 by LuckyFive8888

[MellowYellow]

Are you simply unable to see reality.

+ The governemnet fired no live ammunition at reds

+ grenades and live ammunition were used by reds against troops (read the reports yourself just check out the news sources)

And you say Abhisit is responsible! That he should resign and take responsibility for the other sides terrorism!!! The leaders of the reds should take responsibility and surrender themselves to the authorities for prosecution!

I'm afraid you guys are getting your government talking points all mixed up.

One poster is claiming the PM specificlly stated live ammo was authorized and used.

Another poster is claiming it was only used to shoot above the heads.

International media is reporting it was fired straight into crowds.

And yet another government spokesman is saying in an ALJazeera interview "We must investigate IF it was used and by whom?"

It seems fairly obvious it WAS used. Just look at the most graphic picture of the dead protester with his head opened up with a clear GSW to the skull.

Now if you could all huddle up and deal with whether or not it was authorized and who used it.

Ok, stop with the half truths already. The army was given a clear mandate and this is well documented. They were instructed to use a several step process in dealing with protestors.

Shields, batons, tear gas, water cannons, rubber bullets etc. and when the reds escalated the violence (which you can clearly see on the videos) and started attacking and injuring and killing the soldiers, they were then left with their last resort which was lethal force.

Reds have been calling for war, violence and bloodshed just so when they get it they can try and spin it to their advantage. Luckily we are living in an age where these types of things are very well videoed and it is all there for the whole world to see.

The reds asked for it they got, now take responsibilty for your own actions. Let the dead RIP with dignity and take them off the stage. Go back home and enjoy Songkran with your loved ones and wait for the elections in 9 months, then your voice can be heard in a legal and orderly fashion.

LOL dude. It's YOUR OWN supporters who are coming up with the differing stories. Not me.

Let say, you are correct in the army's ROE. Got any sources or links to prove that was the ROE ?

[lannarebirth]

Maybe they were shot from the rear by red shirts behind them!

I hypothesize this as a more likely scenario.

I't not impossible. With that crowd a gunshot fired can easily hit someone by accident; stray bullet.

With that crowd, no matter who gets hit it's a propaganda victory.

[Moonrakers]

Even Samak showed more restraint during the PAD protest not so long ago. Nothing more needs to be said really.

No he didn't at all, he publicly ordered a crackdown but nothing happened

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

And rubber bullet becoming live bulllet in evening just after some peoples died.... All the day they lied to us and all the week was lier in government too specially the one who said he will take full responsability to give full power to army and police to "clean" bangkok from demonstrators...

Today this guy still in charge of government and say it is still the fault of other side... give him some baby powder and put him in bed and sing a nice song to give him a nice sleep... The little mistakes of broken law is the responsability of reds but it's not their fault if so many peoples died because of police or army charge... the fault they have done is sentenced by real short time jail... killing peoples is full live term jail... or nothing if you are in the good dictatorshiped side of politics...

Yet another distorted half truth. The government did say rubber bullets and they used them until the reds escalated to lethal violence. After that the army had every right to meet lethal force with lethal force, and they did. They then also did the right thing and retreated, if they wanted to kill people for no reason there would many many more dead then we unfortunately have.

[MellowYellow]

Mixing my posts up with someone else's and taking quotes out of context isn't the only thing you have mixed up.

I abhor violence and have NEVER advocated the use of tanks or flamethrowers on unarmed civilians.

Someone else said something about tanks and flamethrowers and I replied that if attacked by a mob, armed with firebombs, grenades and AK-47's that has declared WAR on the state that the army would be justified to respond to such armed insurrection with tanks and flamethrowers.

This is not advocacy, but you've demonstrated already that you are confused and do not comprehend the discussion at hand so let's leave it at that.

I hope and pray that the situation can be resolved without further violence, but it's equally clear that the red shirts leadership is calling for more violence. Violence begets violence. If they do not back down they will get what they are asking for and it will indeed be yet another sad day for Thailand.

That is not advocacy?

Yeah. Ok. Sure.

Have a nice day.