Central World Plaza Closed...must I Pay My Staffs?

[Murgatroyd]

If you want good Karma, pay your staff. They will remember your kindness and appreciate it very much.

If you want bad Karma, be a tightwad... save the money. but your decision will make for difficulties downstream. Your employees are the public face of your business. Do you want this to be a happy face, or a sad and miserable one?

Up to you... Your Karma.

[Jonathanpattaya]

Perhaps you are asking two questions, a legal one and a moral one?

The answer surely must be yes in either case.

[Slip]

If you were one of your employees what would you want? Unless you're on the breadline yourself, and even if you are, pay them or try to pay them. These will be people who NEED that money.

[Deke]

I'm not a lawyer but I think you could probably make a legal case for not paying them. However, I think you'd be better off to try to make some kind of accomodation, say 50% of their normal daily pay, for the days that the shopping center is closed.

It's better to try to keep everybody happy if you can.

[richardt1808]

Putting aside the law, how do you feel? what do you want to do?

Consider some facts. If you do not pay them and they resign. How quickly can you find new staff? How much time and money will it cost you to train them?

I think paying, would not only save you money in the long run, but also earn some good points with the staff.

Besides few thousand baht will not break your bank but will save lots of headaches.

Thank you Kufki, for a good answer.

As for the others: tb86,richardt1808,garryp, britmaverick,jingthing,thailandbluegrass,dragonquest,traxster. Why do you write all that useless stuff? It's not even funny. Do you run a business in Thailand?

Why don't you buy a watergun and go and play Songkran?

Yes Seabear.... I do run a business in Thailand. And I'm paying my staff salaries. What kind of business do you run ? It can't be a very good one, because you're clearly also out playing somewhere.

[stiggy]

I would pay without hesitation.

If it dragged on for two mths or so and the business was wound down Id still pay what I could, possibly pre empt the closure and give notice.

You have to take the rough with the smooth , my own staff always work late if needed without being asked and have a genuine care for what we do.

In the past we have had times where as owners we couldnt draw salary Post tsunami for eg but ALL staff still got paid.

Its called having responsibilty for those that you employ.

Try and be a boss you would work for and respect, then you cant go wrong.

The reds are not purposly having a go at you or your business , so dont pass it down to your staff.

[Chunky1]

Why not jut pay them for the time they work? Problem solved. Were the other KFC's not hiring? They are all probably red shirts anyways.

[torrenova]

I agree by Farang standards it is honorable to pay them but loyalty to Farangs is not a Thai strong point. I'm sure they would appreciate being paid yet I don't think it will make them better workers in the long run.

Lots of hogwash being spouted her by people who have brought western ideology to Thailand and seem insistent that they are correct. You go think you are doing them a good turn and believe that they love you all the more for it and then hear them talk about how stupid their western boss is for paying when not working, out of earshot or not, if they know he cannot understand Thai.

Lots of crap being touted to say that if the OP's business cashflow is not good enough etc. blah blah, then he should not be in business and should go home. Again, moralistic western values which have no place in Thailand.

Some Thai owned places will pay and some will not. I think I would tell my staff that this was causing a great hardship but that for this week I will pay. You cannot just decide to pay indefinitely. You will likely get no better work from the staff and no increased loyalty. You just have to look at it as offsetting the cost to recruit new staff and train them up. When that cost is less than the cost of paying for non work, you have to revisit the argument. It is better for your staff that they know where you stand.

[ThaiPauly]

When I had a business in the UK there was an occassion wherby there was so much snow around that hardly anyone could get to work as our office was in a remote country village.

I paid them.....all 25 of them , the ones that made it I sent home with pay.

Cost me more than 2,500 quid, never mind the lost sales, but it seemed the right thing to do.

It was not my staff's fault, they were willing to work , but could not get to work without considerable risk to themselves.

Good staff are hard to come by.....I would pay them if I were you.

[kudroz]

Lots of hogwash being spouted her by people who have brought western ideology to Thailand and seem insistent that they are correct. You go think you are doing them a good turn and believe that they love you all the more for it and then hear them talk about how stupid their western boss is for paying when not working, out of earshot or not, if they know he cannot understand Thai.

Lots of crap being touted to say that if the OP's business cashflow is not good enough etc. blah blah, then he should not be in business and should go home. Again, moralistic western values which have no place in Thailand.

Some Thai owned places will pay and some will not. I think I would tell my staff that this was causing a great hardship but that for this week I will pay. You cannot just decide to pay indefinitely. You will likely get no better work from the staff and no increased loyalty. You just have to look at it as offsetting the cost to recruit new staff and train them up. When that cost is less than the cost of paying for non work, you have to revisit the argument. It is better for your staff that they know where you stand.

Great post by torrenova. I wholeheartedly agree with this.

Edited April 20, 2010 by kudroz

[Crash999]

If the staff are at Central my guess is they're hourly workers. In such case if they were valuable (ie. finding a replacement would be difficult) then I'd set up a meeting and let them know that I'd be paying a fixed amount to be 'on the bench' until the mall reopens. Otherwise if the worker is average or easily replaced then no work no pay.

If it's an office and there are salaried staff then I'd check to see first what the legal obligation is. Even if the obligation is nothing (which I doubt) I would still call a meeting together to discuss the situation and let them know that the company will give them a certain amount of money to help them, and to ask for their understanding that it is a difficult time and impacts income so this arrangement is temporary. Not doing anything for them would affect morale and the team spirit.

[ShiraSherry]

no dont pay them, its not your fault, they dont work they dont get paid, if they have a problem tell them to take it up with their fellow countrymen. Im pretty sure a Thai wouldnt be paying them

lol

What an answer! My parents own the business. If you won't pay them, They can sue you. seriously!

[coelho]

"a wise prince should establish himself on that which is his own control and not in that of others; he must endeavor to avoid hatred, as is noted"

(Niccolò Machiavelli, The Prince)

literature sometimes is useful

[kenallday]

I agree by Farang standards it is honorable to pay them but loyalty to Farangs is not a Thai strong point. I'm sure they would appreciate being paid yet I don't think it will make them better workers in the long run.

Thai people don't need much money so just tell them to <deleted> off and they will respect you more than shoving cash at them for nothing and they certainly will not give you any loyalty, If they are not happy just sack them and train up someone else how to stand around all day and play with their mobile phone whilst ignoring customers - I guess that it might take all of 5 minutes.

[p_brownstone]

Lots of hogwash being spouted her by people who have brought western ideology to Thailand and seem insistent that they are correct. You go think you are doing them a good turn and believe that they love you all the more for it and then hear them talk about how stupid their western boss is for paying when not working, out of earshot or not, if they know he cannot understand Thai.

Lots of crap being touted to say that if the OP's business cashflow is not good enough etc. blah blah, then he should not be in business and should go home. Again, moralistic western values which have no place in Thailand.

Some Thai owned places will pay and some will not. I think I would tell my staff that this was causing a great hardship but that for this week I will pay. You cannot just decide to pay indefinitely. You will likely get no better work from the staff and no increased loyalty. You just have to look at it as offsetting the cost to recruit new staff and train them up. When that cost is less than the cost of paying for non work, you have to revisit the argument. It is better for your staff that they know where you stand.

Great post by torrenova. I wholeheartedly agree with this.

Totally agree too.

"Staff Loyalty" is an alien concept in Thailand and in this situation would simply be regarded as weakness.

You will receive no benefit at all for paying Staff who do not work - for whatever reason.

Patrick

[eljeque]

....this is meant to be silly, so take it as such.

Your employees work for your shop

Central World is shut.

You rent from Central World.

This is your choice.

Your shop is closed. You chose to rent from a shopping center which shuts its doors when difficulties arise.

Your landlord will not allow your staff to enter the building.

You chose the location.

Central World wants to be high profile and thus get a premium for its rents.

This is not your employees' fault, but it is your decision to rent from a location which has a higher chance of being protested in front of.

There are tens of thousands of shops all over Bangkok which are open, because of the locations that those owners chose. Low profile locations.

Yes, this is ludicrous. It is meant to be, and those other shops are open. As a mental institution patient I know says, "There is a little truth in every lie".

Hopefully business has been good enough that you are able to pay your staff.

And as a few other posters have stated, they will appreciate it when they are paid, but forget about it very shortly thereafter.

Best of luck for you, your business and your staff

Edited April 23, 2010 by eljeque

[basjke]

I should ask them which side they support.Those who say they support the red I would cut their salary and at the same time blame them that the others also don't get paid

By the way I tell you how Thai staff thinks about you.I'm building a house and the thai construction staff went home on the 13th for 3 days to celebrate songkran,as of today ( 10 days after they left) 1 out of 13 has returned.The other 12 will probably show up in the next 1 to 30 days depending on when they run out of money.This is not the first time something similar happens.Just shows how much they care about their employer.So learn a lesson and tread them the same,they are used to it.

Edited April 23, 2010 by basjke

[witold]

Your employees are more than willing to show up to work - or another location - while CW is closed.

You should not penalize them just because your landlord - CW - decided to shut their doors on you. This is your business and this is your problem, not your employees' problem. If you have a problem with this situation, talk to your landlord.

[basjke]

Your employees are more than willing to show up to work - or another location - while CW is closed.

You should not penalize them just because your landlord - CW - decided to shut their doors on you. This is your business and this is your problem, not your employees' problem. If you have a problem with this situation, talk to your landlord.

How you prove that they are more then willing to show up to work.

Might be that are even willing so much that they stay in front of their workplace all day................................with a red shirt on.

[eljeque]

Your employees are more than willing to show up to work - or another location - while CW is closed.

You should not penalize them just because your landlord - CW - decided to shut their doors on you. This is your business and this is your problem, not your employees' problem. If you have a problem with this situation, talk to your landlord.

How you prove that they are more then willing to show up to work.

Might be that are even willing so much that they stay in front of their workplace all day................................with a red shirt on.

Or they may be on the other side with a yellow shirt on, or they are sitting at home with no shirt on. This is not known.

The above (cocerning their wearing red shirts) is a possibility, but as they always did show up to work prior to the doors being shut, there is no reason to believe that they would not continue to show up if the doors were opened. There are millions of workers in Bkk who are red at least a little, at heart who go to work everyday. Your employees may be the very same type of people.

We have not been giving any information concerning their not going to work on other protest days prior to Central World closing its doors.

Now, if you see some of them on TV, then I think that you would have a strong case against paying him/her and your other employees would more than likely agree with you.

[dave111223]

If you are paying them daily/hourly then obviously you would not pay them for days not work, whatever the reason. Even in the US most hourly jobs don't pay you for time not worked. I've worked at a lot of places that would close early if business was really slow, and we'd only get paid the hours we worked.

If you are paying them monthly then you'd still be obligated to pay them their full monthly amount.

It's kind of strange that you have a store/brand big enough to rent from Central World and this is your only location? ie you keep all your stock right on hand at this expensive location?

If you have a stock warehouse or other locations you could sent the employees to work at those locations. Catch up with all those tasks that you just never had time to get around to...re-organizing all the stock, doing complete inventory etc...

[vicharnuchsiri]

Legally employer has an obligation to help in some way, there are some flexibility there. However Government has set several assistance programs for both employers and employees. Before anyone both Thai and Farang in this forum leaping to their keyboard and compound the original poster and other people's misery by writing somethings naff and only with half a brain without facts or any kind of deliberations, just grab a drink or take a walk.

My advice is to watch the news, the keep your eyes out for any update in the newspaper.

[wolf5370]

When I worked for a Thai employer, I didn't get paid when I didn't work - even when they decided to close (for impromptu holidays etc). Now I have staff, I do likewise.

I wasn't closed due to recent troubles (though I did loose an importnant member of staff who sodded of the BKK to wear red - and has been told not to come back - she just went, no message, nothing, just went and I found out later it was for 2 days and it became a week - and then I fired her), but have had to close other times and have never paid staff for not working.

I guess it depends on a lot of things. Especially employment status - if they are on a salary (rather than a pay per hour/day) and earn enough to pay taxes, then perhaps the labour laws answer your question for you. Many, many Thais do not work in this fashion though and only expect to be paid when they work.

If it dragged on for a few days, and I knew it may cause hardship, perhaps I would call them for a meet up some where and give a good will gesture. However, I know full well, anytime they feel they will just go - there is no employee loyalty at the blue collar worker (and below) levels.

[Lancelot]

I agree by Farang standards it is honorable to pay them but loyalty to Farangs is not a Thai strong point. I'm sure they would appreciate being paid yet I don't think it will make them better workers in the long run.

Bingo!

Most of the nay sayers -moraly obligated to pay; do the right thing, blah, blah, blah- have most likely never had to meet a payroll, business loan or other overheads. As another poster said, its every man for himself here in Thailand.

Always easy to spend the other guy's money

[TheItaliann]

I can just picture OP ringing up Pong.

"Good news Pong, you can start work again this Monday! And I guess I can stop paying you for doing nothing"

"Solly. I have new job this last 2 month"