Thai Red-Shirts Leaders Will Surrender To Police May 15: Nattawut

[brahmburgers]

Abhisit didn't get to power via the coup. There were two administrations between the coup and Abhisit's turn as PM. A and the Dems aren't afeared of elections, they just don't want to be bullied in to calling one because a mob is pouring tainted blood on city sidewalks.

The Reds made their point. Now it's time to return to their homes upcountry. Nothing more will be accomplished by 3,000 or so demonstrators camped out in front of downtown department stores. I admit, though not a Red supporter, I do admire them for their tenaciousness. I also agree there are deep class stratifications within Thailand, and it causes hardships for many downtrodden. I fully welcome an election, as I think the Dems do, ...all in good time, but not due to pressure by shouted threats.

If Reds get their way, then the precedent of mob rule in Thailand will get reinforced. I don't think anyone wants that, particularly because the next mob might not be to their liking.

[Skywalker69]

Looks like the lawyer forgot to consult Dr Weng before using his stall tactic.

One hand has no clue who the other is stroking.

Of course the general argument has been turned around to say the gov is saying 'all red shirts are terrorists',

while all I have ever seen 'officially said' was that 'there were 'Terrorists within the red ranks'

firing at the riot squad.' In other words their were infiltrated by vicious ringers,

and the search for those actual terrorists is ongoing.

But it suits some red agendas to paint the gov as absolutists, and equally demagogic... as red leaders,

and so they turn the phrases to mean ALL reds must be considered terrorists.

How can you fight 'an enemy' that doesn't say you are their enemy?

How can you fight 'an enemy' that says others have used you badly for their own ends.

How can you fight 'an enemy' that says your own leaders used you as cannon fodder/puppets.

How do you fight 'an enemy' that only says they are trying to free up public spaces for others.

Ah yes, turn it around and say they are all liars and murderers and that they think all reds are terrorists.

Can't keep your street army at fever pitch if you can't demonize the opposition as nasty and 'out to get you'.

If the army REALLY wanted red leaders dead today,

2-5 snipers on rooftops could have taken out 2 each on stage

and be done with, headless snake easy to dispose of.

Or if they really were that duplicitous,

they could have just grabbed Weng, Veera and Jatuporn after Abhisit meeting 2.

But they honored that truce flag and offered more negotiations.

Then they could have captured Arisman weeks ago, and beaten down any who tried to help him.

And if they didn't care, just weathered the fall out from the violence.

But this has not happened, and is not likely to in such a violent way.

But the Red leaders have to keep saying this is the aim, or the red foot soldiers loose the plot

Such as Arisman. "They were trying to kill me!!!" Even as he forgot his own hand grenade at the room.

Can't violently fight people you can't hate 100%.

Good post, thanks!

[cheguevara]

I'm amazed that some foreigners here just don't understand the fundamental issue. If the "poor Thais" want to vote for Thaksin or his supporters, that is their decision, not ours. No matter how bad some foreigners think Thaksin is or was, it is still the right of the Thai people to choose whoever they feel is right for them.

And don't think for a moment that any alleged vote buying will influence that. Thais take money from every party that comes to their village and in the end they will vote for whoever they want. After all, Thaksin won't be standing behind their shoulder when they mark their "X" at the ballot box.

[OldgitTom]

rixalex,

‘It's not pessimism, it is realism. Nothing bent about the logic and how true blue conservatism comes into it, only you must know.’

I am happy to tell you something you were unaware of before, but of course, I expect no thanks in explicating further.

“We have had X for many years, therefore we will always have X”. That was your argument, reduced to its bare (bent) logical bones. The conservative is always happy with what is, always suspicious of a possible improved state in the future. If human beings were all conservatives, we would still be up trees eating bananas. Clearer? Good show!

‘Complete nonsense. Abhisit arrived in power via tanks and guns no more than Samak or Somchai did before him. So where were you and the reds then? Not a peep did we hear. ‘

You didn’t hear, therefore no protest was uttered? More bent logic, but not surprising, if your perceptions were focussed exclusively on the hacks of Thailand’s English language media. As I wearily reiterate, the issue is not what farangs perceive, it is how things look to the rural poor. For this viewpoint, a measure of human sympathy is needed from farangs. But if conservatives had this, they would not be conservatives.

The farang conservative wrinklies sit on their fat quoits, bemoaning the street dramas, understanding nothing of why they happen, & caring less than the long-nosed idol at Erawhan corner. OGT

Edited April 19, 2010 by OldgitTom

[RussellHantz]

Good post, thanks!

Are you the yellow cheerleader

[KireB]

Well, the government can't seem to arrest the red shirt leaders on their own ..and there's a solution. Dissolve parliament and they will turn themselves in. Problem solved!

Naive. I ask: Name one promise the Red shirt leaders have honored. Name one statement, voiced by their leader and paymaster, which has proven to be true.

To bring bottles with petrol (Molotovs) to the street of Bangkok.

[KireB]

I'm amazed that some foreigners here just don't understand the fundamental issue. If the "poor Thais" want to vote for Thaksin or his supporters, that is their decision, not ours. No matter how bad some foreigners think Thaksin is or was, it is still the right of the Thai people to choose whoever they feel is right for them.

And don't think for a moment that any alleged vote buying will influence that. Thais take money from every party that comes to their village and in the end they will vote for whoever they want. After all, Thaksin won't be standing behind their shoulder when they mark their "X" at the ballot box.

I think that thats not the issue here. Abhisit made it very clear from the start that Thaksin is more than welcome to come back to Thailand.

But Thaksin himself chose to flee the country and to become a fugitive rather than to fight his court cases. Cant do the time, dont do the crime.

He's a criminal till he clears his name. So, let him come back.

[RussellHantz]

I'm amazed that some foreigners here just don't understand the fundamental issue. If the "poor Thais" want to vote for Thaksin or his supporters, that is their decision, not ours. No matter how bad some foreigners think Thaksin is or was, it is still the right of the Thai people to choose whoever they feel is right for them.

And don't think for a moment that any alleged vote buying will influence that. Thais take money from every party that comes to their village and in the end they will vote for whoever they want. After all, Thaksin won't be standing behind their shoulder when they mark their "X" at the ballot box.

I think that thats not the issue here. Abhisit made it very clear from the start that Thaksin is more than welcome to come back to Thailand.

But Thaksin himself chose to flee the country and to become a fugitive rather than to fight his court cases. Cant do the time, dont do the crime.

He's a criminal till he clears his name. So, let him come back.

Observers say it was a political conviction. I agree.

You can nail anyone if you look hard enough. After the election the reds will probably set up a committee to investigate their political opponents and hit Abhisit the golden boy for 2 years behind bars. This is how it works in Thailand. This is one reason why Abhisit is being so stubborn - after all the sh*t he has pulled, he knows its going to be payback time if the reds get into government.

Edited April 19, 2010 by RussellHantz

[Tejas]

About surrendering May 15..............this is a clever but transparent ploy designed specifically for maximum impact after the shit hits the fan.

The Reds know that the govt. is going to do something............at this point I think they want the govt. to do something.

Then they will say, "look, we said we would surrender peacefully...........then the govt. decided to use force..........not us."

This will play well in Thailand's hinterlands.

Mr. T is orchestrating this with the help of handlers/analysts who know a bit about what they are doing.

[midas]

Certainly; but please understand that riots in the streets are the result of blocking the will of the majority when it was expressed peacefully & lawfully. I hope that is not too hard to appreciate? Patronizing the voters by calling them backward, & ‘terrorists’ is, as I said, & repeat, arrogant & ignorant. They are not stupid. They know they suffer low incomes & poor social services. They know the Bangkok Bandits & their Yellowshirt apparatus don’t want to pay up. Mr T was a brutal & crooked opportunist, but they voted for someone who at least gave the appearance of doing something for them.

Therein lies the rub, too many people like you running around talking about what the majority wants when it fact the REDS are very much a minority when taken in the full context of the country. I don't get why people like yourself don't see or understand that FACT. The REDS and their supporters, have NEVER had a majority... period.

Duh ! How can you be certain ?

That is why the Thai people need an election

[KireB]

I'm amazed that some foreigners here just don't understand the fundamental issue. If the "poor Thais" want to vote for Thaksin or his supporters, that is their decision, not ours. No matter how bad some foreigners think Thaksin is or was, it is still the right of the Thai people to choose whoever they feel is right for them.

And don't think for a moment that any alleged vote buying will influence that. Thais take money from every party that comes to their village and in the end they will vote for whoever they want. After all, Thaksin won't be standing behind their shoulder when they mark their "X" at the ballot box.

I think that thats not the issue here. Abhisit made it very clear from the start that Thaksin is more than welcome to come back to Thailand.

But Thaksin himself chose to flee the country and to become a fugitive rather than to fight his court cases. Cant do the time, dont do the crime.

He's a criminal till he clears his name. So, let him come back.

Observers say it was a political conviction. I agree.

You can nail anyone if you look hard enough. After the election the reds will probably set up a committee to investigate their political opponents and hit Abhisit the golden boy for 2 years behind bars. This is how it works in Thailand. This is one reason why Abhisit is being so stubborn - after all the sh*t he has pulled, he knows its going to be payback time if the reds get into government.

So basically the REds and you have no problem with the government but with the judicial system. This is weird as I clearly remember that on several occasion Thaksin announed he had all confidence in this system. He actually used it many times to silence the media and his opponents. He's still trying to sue his opponents using the same courts. Love them when they favour you, fight them if they dont. Thats in no way Democracy!

[animatic]

....After all, Thaksin won't be standing behind their shoulder when they mark their "X" at the ballot box.

Actually this is the fundamental reason that the 12006 election was thrown out and the Election Commision jailed.

For allowing Thaksins voter paymasters to observe easily voting booth behavior. This

Stand behind their shoulders and make sure how they voted.

Truth is often star-ranger than fiction here.

[Valentine]

About surrendering May 15..............this is a clever but transparent ploy designed specifically for maximum impact after the shit hits the fan.

The Reds know that the govt. is going to do something............at this point I think they want the govt. to do something.

Then they will say, "look, we said we would surrender peacefully...........then the govt. decided to use force..........not us."

This will play well in Thailand's hinterlands.

Mr. T is orchestrating this with the help of handlers/analysts who know a bit about what they are doing.

It could also be they think they will have won the battle by then.

[animatic]

I'm amazed that some foreigners here just don't understand the fundamental issue. If the "poor Thais" want to vote for Thaksin or his supporters, that is their decision, not ours. No matter how bad some foreigners think Thaksin is or was, it is still the right of the Thai people to choose whoever they feel is right for them.

And don't think for a moment that any alleged vote buying will influence that. Thais take money from every party that comes to their village and in the end they will vote for whoever they want. After all, Thaksin won't be standing behind their shoulder when they mark their "X" at the ballot box.

I think that thats not the issue here. Abhisit made it very clear from the start that Thaksin is more than welcome to come back to Thailand.

But Thaksin himself chose to flee the country and to become a fugitive rather than to fight his court cases. Cant do the time, dont do the crime.

He's a criminal till he clears his name. So, let him come back.

Observers say it was a political conviction. I agree.

You can nail anyone if you look hard enough. After the election the reds will probably set up a committee to investigate their political opponents and hit Abhisit the golden boy for 2 years behind bars. This is how it works in Thailand. This is one reason why Abhisit is being so stubborn - after all the sh*t he has pulled, he knows its going to be payback time if the reds get into government.

except that it was not hard to find something. The probelm had been actually telling people about it,

and then getting past his jiggering of the checks and balances to prosecute.

It's political because he used a political machine to commit crimes of significantly greater proportions than those before him.

And now he is taking a political revenge.... it's all political, but the crimes were real, and the politics hid them... for a time.

[Siam Simon]

He who arrived in power via tanks & guns now can pose as the representative of sweet reason, peace & legality. Nice one!

Complete nonsense. Abhisit arrived in power via tanks and guns no more than Samak or Somchai did before him. So where were you and the reds then? Not a peep did we hear.

Not entirely complete nonsense. Gen Anupong was involved in the discussions between party leaders that brought about the current coalition government.

[Thai at Heart]

Not entirely complete nonsense. Gen Anupong was involved in the discussions between party leaders that brought about the current coalition government.

Shhh. Don't say it too loud.

However, the Straits times has a rather good take on it. Of course they would be in Thaksin's pocket some will say. This was written at the end of 2008.

http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2BNew...ory_319574.html

I particularly like these two quotes.

No matter how he is judged, Gen Anupong has been most influential in Thai politics this year. His actions, or rather, inaction for the most part, has turned the face of Thai politics to its current situation.

Gen Anupong backed a switch in the core of the coalition government. The Democrats got a political windfall. With the defection by Mr Newin Chidchob and his allies, who sought shelter under the military wing, Mr Abhisit succeeded in mustering enough majority in Parliament to become prime minister.

Gen Anupong has promised to back the Democrats for at least two years. But between now and then anything could happen

But of course there will be those who still believe that the marriage of Newin and Abhisit was blessed with love in the truest form of democracy. I bet Abhisit regrets the day he got that phone call from Anupong, it started with "I have an idea".

[Siam Simon]

I bet Abhisit regrets the day he got that phone call from Anupong, it started with "I have an idea".

I bet he'll regret it as long as he lives. One of Thailand's most promising politicians jumped the gun big time.

[Artisi]

But of course there will be those who still believe that the marriage of Newin and Abhisit was blessed with love in the truest form of democracy. I bet Abhisit regrets the day he got that phone call from Anupong, it started with "I have an idea".

Or in the words of Baldrick - "I have a cunning plan"

[yoshiwara]

Rixalex,

‘Since when have there ever been free elections, and in the current climate of divisiveness and disruptions, what chance is there for having one now? Pretty much zero i would say.’

We’ve never had X before, therefore we never will have X. Not only pessimism & defeatism, but bent logic. Spoken like a true, blue conservative.

‘There will of course have to be elections at some stage, free or otherwise, but what advantage is there to allowing the country to be held at ransom by a tiny minority of the population on the streets, and giving in to their demands?’

Yeah, & long-term, we are all dead, the poorer the sooner. By pre-loading your own premiss, you supply your own desired answer - pretty much what Mr Abhisit is doing. He who arrived in power via tanks & guns now can pose as the representative of sweet reason, peace & legality. Nice one!

Like you, Abhisit will hold out against an election precisely becos he knows he & his Bangkok Bandit crew of skimmers-off-the-top are unlikely to win. They hated Mr T, becos he was a bigger & better crook than them, the dirty arriviste cad. But, to give in to popular demand is to make a move towards actual democracy – something Mr A & his crew will resist fiercely, & likely with more gunplay. Precisely as long as no election is held, the BBs & you can claim the Redshirts are an unrepresentative minority.

How representative of ordinary Thais is Mr Abhisit, flower of Eton & Oxbridge? How many khao pats does that kind of elite education cost?

I know probably as well as you that the rural poor will sell their votes. As far as my limited knowledge goes, all parties buy votes. I assume Mr T’s ‘boys’ pay better? Our difference is that I see the connection between lack of democracy & abundance of poverty, & you do not want to see it.

An election might be a significant step in the right direction – why you & Mr Abhisit will resist it, while hypocritically deploring the loss of life & street battles. The latter brought what little democracy that exists in Thailand & the world. They are signs of democracy’s emergence & vitality. They are frail signs of hope. God bless the Redshirts & poor Thais. Vox populi, vox dei. OGT

Nobody is arguing about having an election.

It is the timing of the election for Thaksin to put his cronies into the army reshuffle.

Unfortunately when push comes to shove you don't even bother to hide your support for open corruption.

Another soggy liberal patronising 'the poor' for their tortured consciences.

Old patronising gits for Thaksin.

I think that's about right.

[rixalex]

I am happy to tell you something you were unaware of before, but of course, I expect no thanks in explicating further.

"We have had X for many years, therefore we will always have X". That was your argument, reduced to its bare (bent) logical bones. The conservative is always happy with what is, always suspicious of a possible improved state in the future. If human beings were all conservatives, we would still be up trees eating bananas. Clearer? Good show!

Actually funny you should mention true blue conservative because your condescending tone and general know-it-all arrogance reminds me of true blue Conservatives (capital "C") i used to know. Anyway, i digress.

My argument wasn't that we shouldn't strive to change things. Thai elections have been bent since year dot though and that situation is unlikely to change in the near future. Therefore you simplistically stating that all the country needs right now are free elections as if a wand can be waved and so it will be, is just daft.

[brahmburgers]

Has the current gov't acquiesced to the May 15th claim? I hope not. The dozens of Red leaders have warrants out for their arrest. It's not up to them to declare when they feel it's the right time to 'surrender.'

If a bank robber or rapist has a warrant out for his arrest, can he just say, 'oh, I'll turn myself in at the next neap tide ....and the authorities sit back and feel all warm and fuzzy about it? No, breaking the law is breaking the law. Authorities should spend each day and night planning/mobilizing to bring lawbreakers to justice. You don't allow lawbreakers to set the rules. Furthermore, you don't allow lawbreakers to set terms for their surrender. I hope Abhisit and his people know that, and hang tough about apprehending .

I'm amazed that some foreigners here just don't understand the fundamental issue. If the "poor Thais" want to vote for Thaksin or his supporters, that is their decision, not ours. No matter how bad some foreigners think Thaksin is or was, it is still the right of the Thai people to choose whoever they feel is right for them.

And don't think for a moment that any alleged vote buying will influence that. Thais take money from every party that comes to their village and in the end they will vote for whoever they want. After all, Thaksin won't be standing behind their shoulder when they mark their "X" at the ballot box.

Wrong and naive. Village pu yai (headman) are paid by major parties, most often TRT and its incarnations, to bring in the vote that's dictated. There are payments, there are promises of payments, there's coersion, bullying, all sorts of ways to get little people to vote the way they're told to vote. It's also been reported that some Thai voting booths are not private, and individuals' votes are known by local authorities. Those who don't vote how they're told to vote are disciplined and/or cut out of the money that's handed out by big shots.

[rixalex]

‘Complete nonsense. Abhisit arrived in power via tanks and guns no more than Samak or Somchai did before him. So where were you and the reds then? Not a peep did we hear. ‘

You didn’t hear, therefore no protest was uttered?

Didn't hear it. Didn't see it. Didn't read about it. Didn't see reds on the street. Perhaps it just didn't exist.

[rixalex]

As I wearily reiterate, the issue is not what farangs perceive, it is how things look to the rural poor. For this viewpoint, a measure of human sympathy is needed from farangs. But if conservatives had this, they would not be conservatives.

That old chestnut. Anyone against the reds must be against the rural poor. I too would be weary about repeating such nonsense.

[shrekroma]

Most of the farang posters here seem to be right-wing authoritarians who have not a clue about democracy.

If they did praise democracy, trust me they wouldnt be here. LOLL

Trying to keep Thailand as an elite safe house heaven is just stupid.

Edited April 20, 2010 by shrekroma

[OldgitTom]

Brahmburgers,

‘Wrong and naive. Village pu yai (headman) are paid by major parties, most often TRT and its incarnations, to bring in the vote that's dictated. There are payments, there are promises of payments, there's coersion, bullying, all sorts of ways to get little people to vote the way they're told to vote. It's also been reported that some Thai voting booths are not private, and individuals' votes are known by local authorities. Those who don't vote how they're told to vote are disciplined and/or cut out of the money that's handed out by big shots.’

Probably true for all I know; if you are faced with paying the elctricity bill or feeding the kids, electoral kickbacks might seem like Xmas. So you've given us another reason for having one, dude. IMHO, even a bent election is better than institutionalized poverty, plus blood on the streets, plus the gun barrel of a tank over your shoulder.

Yoshiwara,

‘Unfortunately when push comes to shove you don't even bother to hide your support for open corruption.

Another soggy liberal patronising 'the poor' for their tortured consciences. Old patronising gits for Thaksin. I think that's about right.’

Corruption? It usually comes from the top down, from rich authoritarians. The poor don’t have the wherewithal, so only a singularly dim conservative would blame them for it.

You don’t seem to have noticed a word I posted against Ole Squarehead.

‘Liberal’ I take as a compliment, likewise my alleged tortured conscience.

You didn’t say what you feel about hatchet-faced, brute-force-&-ignorance authoritarians. Do tell. OGT