Top Army, Navy Units Readied For Red-Shirts Dispersal

[warfie]

How about having some buses nearby to enable protesters to leave is they so choose. Give them an easy way to leave. However, only put enough petrol in the buses to get them to one or another transit station where they can get buses back to the villages in the provinces. If the buses had more petrol, then they could be used as rolling bombs - as happened with the Reds at Bkk during Songkran 2009.

However, there are some potential drawbacks with supplying buses:

>>>> Drivers could be threatened or taken hostage

>>>> Buses could be used as barricades, or otherwise used for nefarious purposes.

On 2nd thought, probably better to lose the bus idea. Perhaps better to allow protesters to walk or drive out of the demonstration area, similar to how they got there. Either way, it's important to allow them a relatively painless way to leave the site - whether by choice or forced. What we don't want to see is a confined area, with mayhem and bloodshed. ....like shooting fish in a barrel.

Buses use diesel, sometimes compressed gas, not petrol .

some buses use ethanol...

<--Homer Simpson voice-->

"mmm, ethanol....."

[Neurath]

LOL ... let's get this straight ... are you honestly stating that "the vast majority" of BKKers are of the elite ruling class or are brainwashed? LOL

Your ideas go from wierd to wierder! First you want Isaan to secede and now you think that the average guy in BKK is something more than a first or second generation immigrant from the countryside! You were recently saying that BKKians were for the reds ... now you say the vast majority are against them .... hmmmm

Please tell me, how is the average employee of a SME in BKK a 'repressor"? LOL Those 7-11 clerks are holding the people down I say!!!

It's the 7/11 clerks who keep the price of rice paddy low. If it wasn't for them the government would buy all the paddy at THB80,000/tonne and then sell it on the domestic market at THB5/kilo.

You seem to be advocating the govt using tax dollars to subsidize the income of rice farmers rather than build roads, schools, hospitals, etc.

What about the melon and pineapple growers, in fact all non-rice-growing agricultural workers? Have you done a rough costing on this? And what in god's name have 7/11 clerks got to do with it?

Don't be dense Mick, I was suggesting they use Baht.

[ozzieman05]

All the reds want is a fair election - with as many outside observers, UN etc etc. as anyone wants- and they will not complain.

Really? Where has that been mentioned?

Mr "The UN is not my father" will permit that will he?

Okay lets say we agree to your instant election

Can you please show us the proof the the UN has stated they will send observers to Thailand at the drop of the hat

You don't have did I hear you say

Oh I see it will talk a few month to organize

But you still want to disolve parliment today

And can you also please show me information on the facts that Thai people have suddenly changed their mind having foriegn interference in their country

Oh I see this is the reason you will use when you don't allow them to come

Maybe a bit one sided, what do you think

Oh I see sorry

This is the Red shirts definition of DEMOCRACY

[ozzieman05]

All the reds want is a fair election - with as many outside observers, UN etc etc. as anyone wants- and they will not complain.

Really? Where has that been mentioned?

Mr "The UN is not my father" will permit that will he?

And would you find this an acceptable way to go forward? why not ask Abhist why he doesn't immediatly ask for this if he agrees to dissolve the house

There will be an election. PM said at the negotinations 9 month. Reds said no 15 days, end of talk. The certainly don´t know what it means to negotiate. PM was prepard for more talks, that´s means he maybe had more to offer. So maybe be it could have been 6 month, but even that is to long time, because Takki needs to but his cronies in position before the reshuffle.

Red shirt leaders need to spend more time on Bangkok street stalls

I never have trouble negotiating with Thai stall holders

some where between what I am prepared to pay and how much they want is a sale price

[TAWP]

Likewise where were they when the war on drugs campaign was being waged and more innocents were exterminated from pregnant mums and young kids who subsequently were proved to have no connection to the narcotics trade ?

Sondhi, the leader of the yellow shirts was the main cheerleader of the crackdown on drugs. If you read his newspaper you will find much more open cheering for the police to kill drug dealers than anything Thaksin ever said.

Wait, you are saying someone here is wearing a Sondhi t-shirt, reading a magazine praising Sondhi or putting up posters with his image?

No? Ok then...

Both red and yellow contain abhorrent individuals. Most of us are however in support of neither.

[steveromagnino]

All the reds want is a fair election - with as many outside observers, UN etc etc. as anyone wants- and they will not complain.

Really? Where has that been mentioned?

Mr "The UN is not my father" will permit that will he?

And would you find this an acceptable way to go forward? why not ask Abhist why he doesn't immediatly ask for this if he agrees to dissolve the house

I will repeat again.....

As for moving the election forward, a negotiation is familiar to most of us. This is what 2 days of negotiation that most of THailand had high hopes for acheived. Summary Posturing both sides. then....Red shirts we want 15 days. Abhisit - I am willing to consider shorter, but why. Weera how about 2 months. Abhisit - well I think we can manage 9 months due to changing constitution and getting budget through. ** Red shirts we want 15 days then. Abhisit shall we talk again? Red shirts no, all talking off (after receiving an SMS).

** at this point, this is where someone with a brain who actually showed up to negotiate in good faith says

Red shirts 9 months is too long and we can get a budget that the entire house agrees with plus select military people together surely, we want an election ASAP

Abhisit but we need to agree on how to change the constitution, and you PT guys who walked out last time but we want you to be part of it. It shouldn't be a joint single decision vote for PT and PT will change the constitution how they want, or vote for someone else and maybe it changes maybe it doesnt.

Red shirts - yeah yeah, ok we want a firm road map. 2 months and a referendum on whether to change or not with a firm direction pre referendum on what is going to change and who will decide and how without leadership from any single political group, but rather representatives of all parts of Thailand including non voters

Abhisit - ok ok ok. I just wanna take you guys to this new place called The Bank. OK, I think we can get that in 3 months. Budget and military selection process, how about we agree in advance a way to share the decision process on those, and we all agree in advance that we will be bound electorally by the current constitution so no cheating.

Weng -blah blah blah (20 min)

Weera - Ai Weng shut up please now. Ok ok, we see that is fair enough. Ok, so you agree referendum 2 months from today; house dissolution 1 month after that; election 1 month following; can we all agree on this timeline?

Abhisit - that's pretty quick, you cum too fast today, as Nong Noi said to Steve at the Buffalo Bar. How about we say referendum within the next 90 days, dissolution within 120 days, and election within 150 days

Jatuporn - Pee nong!

Weeera - &lt;deleted&gt; you two shut up so the real politicians with a brain not connected to their bowels and a bad dose of verbal Diarrhea cha cha cha can talk. that's still too slow. Referendum 60, dissolution 90 election 120

Abhisit - do I ever disappoint you? DONE

And there you have it.

Why is this never possible?

1. Red shirts don't care about the referendum they don't care about anything in the constitution other than lack of penalties for electoral fraud and also amnesty and a pardon for Thaksin. That's it. If it went through the steps above, they will never get either.

2. Jatuporn and his pals have no decision making power anyhow

As long as a vote for PT is also a vote to have them unilaterally change the constitution this is NOT democracy. When you vote for the GOP in USA do they then decide they alone will rewrite the bill of rights?

The Constitution is a document that should be created or supported by all Thais on non party lines, including non voters. As long as these PT twits roll the two together, an election will not solve anything. Its lies to call this a fight for democracy; a fight for democracy would be for two issues, not 1 rolling them together.

I will say this though, I cannot see how it can be 1 year 9 months until an election at this rate. It needs to be moved forward. Despite the lunacy of Arisaman and the other nutters within the red shirts, Abhisit must find some way to be the bigger man and negotiate with them to a point that at least the majority of the country sees he is offering a sincere and fair deal.

Perception is everything here. Only when one side can step back from the brink can we move forward.

However, I think tonight if what Arisaman is saying is true....then the powers granted to the army the armed forces must prove the strength of their resolve after letting the red shirts goof off for a couple of weeks now.....and THEN.....a big step back and a fair, unprompted offer from the PM to solve this once and for all. Which will mean an election this year for sure.

And it must be for the good of democracy, even if that means accidentally not choosing to support Thaksin which is 50%+ of the issue right now (as he is the only force seeming to be stopping negotiation). What a pity that would be.

'You seem to be advocating the govt using tax dollars to subsidize the income of rice farmers rather than build roads, schools, hospitals, etc.

What about the melon and pineapple growers, in fact all non-rice-growing agricultural workers? Have you done a rough costing on this? And what in god's name have 7/11 clerks got to do with it?'

Exactly. Subsidies usually don't work; in fact in the rice scheme people imported rice from abroad, then smuggled it into the scheme to acheive higher than market rates for the rice. A straight out vote buyer for rice farmers and their families.

As for the comment about subsidies above in previous posts, I am sure you are well aware that TRT and PPP falsely inflated prices using crop pledging as a way to buy votes. Korn was selected as finance minister of the year worldwide, partly as a result of getting rid of that scheme and replacing it with a market floor system instead. You will no doubt fondly record economic genius without any economics training Somkid and the TRT deisel subsidy which cost tax payers who fund these schemes 77.5 billion baht in a few months in 2004 as the whole scheme ballooned out of control while coincidentally TRT MPs and politicians bought shares in PTT and running up to the 2005 election - basically a gift to pick up truck drivers and truck firms. As I recall spending on education in total (MOE budget) is something like 200-250bb per year; about 200m in the same period....so in essence you could say that the then govt chose to spend over 1/3 of what could be added to education....on slightly cheaper fuel in a market distortion that was designed to win votes. Is this the sort of subsidy you are referring to?

Edited April 20, 2010 by steveromagnino

[Mekhong]

I seriously suspect the reds are going to try and throw it all at the fan tonight, going on what has been posted in the updates thread on here alone.

Will be heading straight home after leaving the office shortly.

I suspect that even Arisman wouldn't be so foolish as to venture too near Silom tonight. It would be a suicide mission

[cheguevara]

So how long has the army been "ready to crack down" now?

[saintofsilence]

So how long has the army been "ready to crack down" now?

Too long for the red leaders. Which will probably be followed by provocations to trigger the army to stomp them.

The result will of course be dead women and children, which have been put in the front row.

Speech attacking the government of unprecedented violence against unarmed, peaceful protesters has already been written I am sure.

But then again, your question was only a provocation anyway, while you're swapping to another red account to throw some more provocations out.

The Government and Army will take time until some red idiot throws one of there bombs at the army and then they will be shot , the army will not purposely shoot innocent unarmed people , but i would not want to be a leader of the reds as thats a different story.

The PM has done a great job under these circumstances and the majority of thai people support him for being a true leader .

[britmaveric]

Abhisit a leader?

[madi]

Nonsense

Just empty threats from the regime.

No tanks in the city now.

This means the army is split and not supporting the regime in full.

Hundreds of army snipers in black are supporting the reds and it is growing each day.

They can push back any armed attack with their weapons and skills. if need be, they will simply allow the buildings to be destroyed and move to another area to defend.

What happens when major army groups join their brothers in Black to defend their people?

They boys from the countryside will not sit there and allow a non-Democratic regime to shoot down their people in the streets.

revolution might be in progress

Leave my farang friends because this will get real ugly sooner or later.

PS

It is just a matter of time before farangs from the left join the fight.

then all whites will be targeted by the regime.

[saintofsilence]

Nonsense

Just empty threats from the regime.

No tanks in the city now.

This means the army is split and not supporting the regime in full.

Hundreds of army snipers in black are supporting the reds and it is growing each day.

They can push back any armed attack with their weapons and skills. if need be, they will simply allow the buildings to be destroyed and move to another area to defend.

What happens when major army groups join their brothers in Black to defend their people?

They boys from the countryside will not sit there and allow a non-Democratic regime to shoot down their people in the streets.

revolution might be in progress

Leave my farang friends because this will get real ugly sooner or later.

PS

It is just a matter of time before farangs from the left join the fight.

then all whites will be targeted by the regime.

But the red leaders have said they don't know the blacks and that the reds are non violent .

[animatic]

Do I read this as that vast majority of people do NOT want this to ever end? They want to be protesting forever? Good, fine with me. If they can afford it...

The vast majority of people in Bangkok want it to end because they are the repressors or the brainwashed servants of the repressors. Also, they don't want to see the people they repress every time they go out. It scares them and brings the truth of their repressive actions home to them.

Are you trying to say "oppress", or maybe even "suppress"? Re-press is something they do at a laundry, unless of course you are abbreviating re-pressurise. It's all rather depressing, don't you think?

Uh all the repressed people are all sitting at home wanking, because they can't get out and just get laid.

Repression is self-induced denial of urges, so this really doesn't explain the massive amounts of Soapys...

[generalgrant]

Nonsense

Just empty threats from the regime.

No tanks in the city now.

This means the army is split and not supporting the regime in full.

Hundreds of army snipers in black are supporting the reds and it is growing each day.

They can push back any armed attack with their weapons and skills. if need be, they will simply allow the buildings to be destroyed and move to another area to defend.

What happens when major army groups join their brothers in Black to defend their people?

They boys from the countryside will not sit there and allow a non-Democratic regime to shoot down their people in the streets.

revolution might be in progress

Leave my farang friends because this will get real ugly sooner or later.

PS

It is just a matter of time before farangs from the left join the fight.

then all whites will be targeted by the regime.

But the red leaders have said they don't know the blacks and that the reds are non violent .

Well they would say that wouldn't they.

You think Ben Franlin went to England and told them to their faces, the elite, that he and his boys were going to rip lose from the King Of England?

NO

Do you think people lie to their opponents during a fight?

of course. Would you have expected Churchill to speak the truth to Hitler?

Reds will win, it is only a matter of time.

Whether you are for them or against them is of no matter because they will win.

[bangkokrick]

Nonsense

Just empty threats from the regime.

No tanks in the city now.

This means the army is split and not supporting the regime in full.

Hundreds of army snipers in black are supporting the reds and it is growing each day.

They can push back any armed attack with their weapons and skills. if need be, they will simply allow the buildings to be destroyed and move to another area to defend.

What happens when major army groups join their brothers in Black to defend their people?

They boys from the countryside will not sit there and allow a non-Democratic regime to shoot down their people in the streets.

revolution might be in progress

Leave my farang friends because this will get real ugly sooner or later.

PS

It is just a matter of time before farangs from the left join the fight.

then all whites will be targeted by the regime.

It is just a matter of time before farangs from the left join the fight.

This is the most insane post that I have ever seen on TVF. Obviously written under the influence of something.

Cheers, Rick

[britmaveric]

^rick - think you are right. hehehe TV's legless post of the day!!

[bangkokrick]

^rick - think you are right. hehehe TV's legless post of the day!!

It will certainly take some beating mate.Ting Tong springs to mind!

Cheers, Rick

[commons]

Nonsense

Just empty threats from the regime.

No tanks in the city now.

This means the army is split and not supporting the regime in full.

Hundreds of army snipers in black are supporting the reds and it is growing each day.

They can push back any armed attack with their weapons and skills. if need be, they will simply allow the buildings to be destroyed and move to another area to defend.

What happens when major army groups join their brothers in Black to defend their people?

They boys from the countryside will not sit there and allow a non-Democratic regime to shoot down their people in the streets.

revolution might be in progress

Leave my farang friends because this will get real ugly sooner or later.

PS

It is just a matter of time before farangs from the left join the fight.

then all whites will be targeted by the regime.

honestly, i'm glad to get an insight into a mind ruled by hate, fear & terror - calling for liberation ;-) i like the way you start your posts with a strong single word, "nonsense"

[cheguevara]

Hundreds of army snipers in black are supporting the reds and it is growing each day.

The army is supporting the red shirts now?

[TheOldWolf]

Hundreds of army snipers in black are supporting the reds and it is growing each day.

The army is supporting the red shirts now?

Madi has not backed up one of his post here jet, so don´t be to optimistic when it comes from him

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I've seen crazier I think.. Heck I've seen crazier on the pages of some local newspapers.

But yeah, it's probably good enough for the Nutter of the Day Award.

[commons]

{snip - for clarity}

Then the reds must come to the negotiation table!

You might find it surprising but I actually do not disagree - I think it a strategic error that they refuse to talk - but Abhisit is PM and should rise above that and declare (via a national address on TV) a roadmap - it would be over despite the reds foolishness not to talk and Abhisit would gain credit for standing tall - but he does nothing but fiddle while Rome burns.

Even if the Army move in and move the reds out - you really think it's over? the only thing which will end it is an election (with international observers etc.) - whoever wins would get majority support and backing - I, for one, would then be against ALL attempts to unseat the elected government no matter what the colour - job done.

1) personally, imho, your posts over last weeks prove... you're a self-deluding fool. just to give you an executive summary, ok?

2) you say, "but Abhisit is PM and should rise above that and declare (via a national address on TV) a roadmap"

2.a) can you please enlighten me what's the causal connection between I) condition "Abhisit is PM" & II) conclusion "and should rise above that" & III) synthesis "declare (via a national address on TV) a roadmap"? - but your very limited wishful thinking?

2.a.I) imho, abhisit government has already implemented _more_ _real_ policies to ease grievances of dis-enfranchised & to heal "social division" than any other thai government before. in case you haven't noticed: latest, as of today, had been a next step for land-tax, including a de-centralization of fiscal government.

2.a.II) bluntly, _why_ should abhisit gov "rise above that". as you poetically put it. "rise above" _what_? an intimidating anarchic mob that flatly rejects negotiations? that disregards law&order - & may i ask, how will you conduct "free elections" among utter disregard of law&order? btw, there are people, many people who simply _disagree_ with "red shirt" leaders threats. &, btw, let me remind you, again & again & again - _no one_ has heard _any_ policy proposals. it's called a "demonstration" - but after many weeks we still don't know - _what_ actually is this self-claimed "vox populi" (as some-one called it) about?

3) you say, "but he [abhisit] does nothing but fiddle while Rome burns": you just like to indulge inclinations of your mind too much, don't you? "it's _me_! _i_ have something to say TOO! even if it's destructive or foolish - i just _feel_ good&great doing so!"

[WinnieTheKhwai]

^ See, another one.. Right up there with Madi.

I'm normally not online at this hour but it seems I'm not missing much.

Edited April 20, 2010 by WinnieTheKhwai

[tatt]

There's a no colour rally on Silom apparently.

NO COLOUR = ANTI RED = PRO YELLOW. It's simple. They are also the messengers of the elite. These are the people creating further distractions.

Anti Red doesn't all always mean Pro Yellow..what's the logic behind that..it's not so simple now, is it.

[tatt]

Even if Abhisit promised general elections in 6 months how much can he be trusted ?

a- He change his mind all the time . First army no live ammo , then have live ammo but only shoot in the air , then now we know for a fact some shot live bullets at innocent reds rank and file

b- He is not even in control himself . He reports to the army . he owes his job to them

He has to keep up with the redshirts... first redshirts say peaceful protest..no weapons..then always turn violent somehow..with plenty of weapons and ammos.. so you expect the army to fight with just a stick and plastic shield while redshirts bombarding them with all kinda weapons? It's redshirts who never kept their words.

[ChiangMaiFun]

{snip - for clarity}

Then the reds must come to the negotiation table!

You might find it surprising but I actually do not disagree - I think it a strategic error that they refuse to talk - but Abhisit is PM and should rise above that and declare (via a national address on TV) a roadmap - it would be over despite the reds foolishness not to talk and Abhisit would gain credit for standing tall - but he does nothing but fiddle while Rome burns.

Even if the Army move in and move the reds out - you really think it's over? the only thing which will end it is an election (with international observers etc.) - whoever wins would get majority support and backing - I, for one, would then be against ALL attempts to unseat the elected government no matter what the colour - job done.

1) personally, imho, your posts over last weeks prove... you're a self-deluding fool. just to give you an executive summary, ok?

2) you say, "but Abhisit is PM and should rise above that and declare (via a national address on TV) a roadmap"

2.a) can you please enlighten me what's the causal connection between I) condition "Abhisit is PM" & II) conclusion "and should rise above that" & III) synthesis "declare (via a national address on TV) a roadmap"? - but your very limited wishful thinking?

2.a.I) imho, abhisit government has already implemented _more_ _real_ policies to ease grievances of dis-enfranchised & to heal "social division" than any other thai government before. in case you haven't noticed: latest, as of today, had been a next step for land-tax, including a de-centralization of fiscal government.

2.a.II) bluntly, _why_ should abhisit gov "rise above that". as you poetically put it. "rise above" _what_? an intimidating anarchic mob that flatly rejects negotiations? that disregards law&order - & may i ask, how will you conduct "free elections" among utter disregard of law&order? btw, there are people, many people who simply _disagree_ with "red shirt" leaders threats. &, btw, let me remind you, again & again & again - _no one_ has heard _any_ policy proposals. it's called a "demonstration" - but after many weeks we still don't know - _what_ actually is this self-claimed "vox populi" (as some-one called it) about?

3) you say, "but he [abhisit] does nothing but fiddle while Rome burns": you just like to indulge inclinations of your mind too much, don't you? "it's _me_! _i_ have something to say TOO! even if it's destructive or foolish - i just _feel_ good&great doing so!"

What a weird post... lie down and take your medicine

I'll_say_no_more

[LevelHead]

Well, the "double standards" and hypocrisy of the present regime continues.

Laugh of the day.

No demonstration in Silom was said !

No groups of people !

Will use tear gas and if necessary live ammo !

What happens ?

Multi-colour shirts take over Silom, have anti-Thaksin protest and yet the Army and government does nothing !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So yet another broad daylight "double standard". The Army yesterday should have dispersed instantly the multi-colours. Failure to do so shows there is a political agenda only and the SOE is being used in an unfair manner for the political gain of the government.

Thats abuse of power and against the constitution.

[LevelHead]

Second laugh of the day was the :

Utter panic at the suggestions of Chavilit and Somchai.

Wow, the Yellow PR machine went into mass panic mode about that suggestion and all sorts of Yellow come out of the woodwork to say no to it.

Everyone I spoke to (Thai's) had no problems with their idea and said it was good and would stop the bad elements of the Democrats/Army from killing more people.

Yet the Yellow PR machine says nobody would agree with it.

In fact I did not find anyone who disagreed with it.

[anotherpeter]

Well, the "double standards" and hypocrisy of the present regime continues.

Laugh of the day.

No demonstration in Silom was said !

No groups of people !

Will use tear gas and if necessary live ammo !

What happens ?

Multi-colour shirts take over Silom, have anti-Thaksin protest and yet the Army and government does nothing !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So yet another broad daylight "double standard". The Army yesterday should have dispersed instantly the multi-colours. Failure to do so shows there is a political agenda only and the SOE is being used in an unfair manner for the political gain of the government.

Thats abuse of power and against the constitution.

How do you know that the army didn't go down to them and ask them to go home?

They went home didn't they?

[pedro01]

Second laugh of the day was the :

Utter panic at the suggestions of Chavilit and Somchai.

Wow, the Yellow PR machine went into mass panic mode about that suggestion and all sorts of Yellow come out of the woodwork to say no to it.

Everyone I spoke to (Thai's) had no problems with their idea and said it was good and would stop the bad elements of the Democrats/Army from killing more people.

Yet the Yellow PR machine says nobody would agree with it.

In fact I did not find anyone who disagreed with it.

I disagree with it.

It goes like this :

1 - cause a problem

2 - push for a confrontation

3 - Invoke a call for the King to sort things out

It is totally politicising the royal family. I think you'd have to be fairly naive to not see that this was part of the plan from day 1.