Red-Shirts To Intensify Pressure

[ChiangMaiFun]

I see Abhisit has:

Amid the simmering tensions, top think-tank the International Crisis Group (ICG) said Thailand must consider mediation from other countries to avoid a slide into further violence, a step which Abhisit rejected.

Rejected mediation... the ONE thing that could save this.

[jdinasia]

I see Abhisit has:

Amid the simmering tensions, top think-tank the International Crisis Group (ICG) said Thailand must consider mediation from other countries to avoid a slide into further violence, a step which Abhisit rejected.

Rejected mediation... the ONE thing that could save this.

WOW

I can come up with many things that could save this.

1) reds discontinue their illegal and violent protests and go home and wait for elections, after all the reds want Democracy --

2) government proves its case to the satisfaction of the people of Thailand. They arrest the black-shirted terrorists and all of the leaders that have publicly called for violence. Those that are convicted in either military court (if they are active military) or civilian court are then dealt with. Insurrection, Treason, Terrorism, ... they all carry the death sentence I think.

3) Someone IMPORTANT speaks up and makes a suggestion.

4) Thaksin dies of colon cancer and the impetus dries up.

5) The reds step over the line just one more time in a critical way.

[ChiangMaiFun]

I see Abhisit has:

Amid the simmering tensions, top think-tank the International Crisis Group (ICG) said Thailand must consider mediation from other countries to avoid a slide into further violence, a step which Abhisit rejected.

Rejected mediation... the ONE thing that could save this.

WOW

I can come up with many things that could save this.

1) reds discontinue their illegal and violent protests and go home and wait for elections, after all the reds want Democracy --

2) government proves its case to the satisfaction of the people of Thailand. They arrest the black-shirted terrorists and all of the leaders that have publicly called for violence. Those that are convicted in either military court (if they are active military) or civilian court are then dealt with. Insurrection, Treason, Terrorism, ... they all carry the death sentence I think.

3) Someone IMPORTANT speaks up and makes a suggestion.

4) Thaksin dies of colon cancer and the impetus dries up.

5) The reds step over the line just one more time in a critical way.

Why FEAR mediation?

[pedro01]

I see Abhisit has:

Amid the simmering tensions, top think-tank the International Crisis Group (ICG) said Thailand must consider mediation from other countries to avoid a slide into further violence, a step which Abhisit rejected.

Rejected mediation... the ONE thing that could save this.

WOW

I can come up with many things that could save this.

1) reds discontinue their illegal and violent protests and go home and wait for elections, after all the reds want Democracy --

2) government proves its case to the satisfaction of the people of Thailand. They arrest the black-shirted terrorists and all of the leaders that have publicly called for violence. Those that are convicted in either military court (if they are active military) or civilian court are then dealt with. Insurrection, Treason, Terrorism, ... they all carry the death sentence I think.

3) Someone IMPORTANT speaks up and makes a suggestion.

4) Thaksin dies of colon cancer and the impetus dries up.

5) The reds step over the line just one more time in a critical way.

Why FEAR mediation?

Mediation between a legitimate government and a bunch of fascist thugs ?

[lannarebirth]

I see Abhisit has:

Amid the simmering tensions, top think-tank the International Crisis Group (ICG) said Thailand must consider mediation from other countries to avoid a slide into further violence, a step which Abhisit rejected.

Rejected mediation... the ONE thing that could save this.

WOW

I can come up with many things that could save this.

1) reds discontinue their illegal and violent protests and go home and wait for elections, after all the reds want Democracy --

2) government proves its case to the satisfaction of the people of Thailand. They arrest the black-shirted terrorists and all of the leaders that have publicly called for violence. Those that are convicted in either military court (if they are active military) or civilian court are then dealt with. Insurrection, Treason, Terrorism, ... they all carry the death sentence I think.

3) Someone IMPORTANT speaks up and makes a suggestion.

4) Thaksin dies of colon cancer and the impetus dries up.

5) The reds step over the line just one more time in a critical way.

Why FEAR mediation?

Only one of the two parties has any standing.

[ChiangMaiFun]

I see Abhisit has:

Amid the simmering tensions, top think-tank the International Crisis Group (ICG) said Thailand must consider mediation from other countries to avoid a slide into further violence, a step which Abhisit rejected.

Rejected mediation... the ONE thing that could save this.

WOW

I can come up with many things that could save this.

1) reds discontinue their illegal and violent protests and go home and wait for elections, after all the reds want Democracy --

2) government proves its case to the satisfaction of the people of Thailand. They arrest the black-shirted terrorists and all of the leaders that have publicly called for violence. Those that are convicted in either military court (if they are active military) or civilian court are then dealt with. Insurrection, Treason, Terrorism, ... they all carry the death sentence I think.

3) Someone IMPORTANT speaks up and makes a suggestion.

4) Thaksin dies of colon cancer and the impetus dries up.

5) The reds step over the line just one more time in a critical way.

Why FEAR mediation?

Mediation between a legitimate government and a bunch of fascist thugs ?

legitimate government? hahaha - anyway besides this foolish comment if we took your view about mediation we might as well disband the whole concept which has saved countless lives in many conflicts worldwide - never FEAR talking and mediation friend - if there's nothing to HIDE.

[pornsasi]

<br />I see Abhisit has:<br /><br />Amid the simmering tensions, top think-tank the International Crisis Group (ICG) said Thailand must consider mediation from other countries to avoid a slide into further violence, a step which Abhisit rejected.<br /><br />Rejected mediation... the ONE thing that could save this.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Yes i think mediation would be a good thing . Armed confrontation is not , and i dont think Abhisit will go for it as children and elderly around

and some armed militia roaming .

Problem is that i begin to think that the reds are either not very intelligent OR the moderate leaders like Weng are not leading anything but themselves

judging from the mob stunt at the hospital . In which case mediation may backfire . Hope am wrong .

[ChiangMaiFun]

I see Abhisit has:

Amid the simmering tensions, top think-tank the International Crisis Group (ICG) said Thailand must consider mediation from other countries to avoid a slide into further violence, a step which Abhisit rejected.

Rejected mediation... the ONE thing that could save this.

WOW

I can come up with many things that could save this.

1) reds discontinue their illegal and violent protests and go home and wait for elections, after all the reds want Democracy --

2) government proves its case to the satisfaction of the people of Thailand. They arrest the black-shirted terrorists and all of the leaders that have publicly called for violence. Those that are convicted in either military court (if they are active military) or civilian court are then dealt with. Insurrection, Treason, Terrorism, ... they all carry the death sentence I think.

3) Someone IMPORTANT speaks up and makes a suggestion.

4) Thaksin dies of colon cancer and the impetus dries up.

5) The reds step over the line just one more time in a critical way.

Why FEAR mediation?

Only one of the two parties has any standing.

That's true... but I think the reds should be generous and talk to the government anyway

[jdinasia]

I see Abhisit has:

Amid the simmering tensions, top think-tank the International Crisis Group (ICG) said Thailand must consider mediation from other countries to avoid a slide into further violence, a step which Abhisit rejected.

Rejected mediation... the ONE thing that could save this.

WOW

I can come up with many things that could save this.

1) reds discontinue their illegal and violent protests and go home and wait for elections, after all the reds want Democracy --

2) government proves its case to the satisfaction of the people of Thailand. They arrest the black-shirted terrorists and all of the leaders that have publicly called for violence. Those that are convicted in either military court (if they are active military) or civilian court are then dealt with. Insurrection, Treason, Terrorism, ... they all carry the death sentence I think.

3) Someone IMPORTANT speaks up and makes a suggestion.

4) Thaksin dies of colon cancer and the impetus dries up.

5) The reds step over the line just one more time in a critical way.

Why FEAR mediation?

Only one of the two parties has any standing.

Not a single one of my answers included mediation. Mediation won't work in this case. I guess the reds should fear the government proving a strong case against the leaders. I also guess that the reds should honestly REALLY fear to step over the line one more time but that has nothing to do with anyone else but the reds.

None of the rest of the alternatives I suggested have anything to do with fear.

[jdinasia]

<br />I see Abhisit has:<br /><br />Amid the simmering tensions, top think-tank the International Crisis Group (ICG) said Thailand must consider mediation from other countries to avoid a slide into further violence, a step which Abhisit rejected.<br /><br />Rejected mediation... the ONE thing that could save this.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Yes i think mediation would be a good thing . Armed confrontation is not , and i dont think Abhisit will go for it as children and elderly around

and some armed militia roaming .

Problem is that i begin to think that the reds are either not very intelligent OR the moderate leaders like Weng are not leading anything but themselves

judging from the mob stunt at the hospital . In which case mediation may backfire . Hope am wrong .

You think WENG is moderate? You are very very out of touch!

[ratcatcher]

<br />I see Abhisit has:<br /><br />Amid the simmering tensions, top think-tank the International Crisis Group (ICG) said Thailand must consider mediation from other countries to avoid a slide into further violence, a step which Abhisit rejected.<br /><br />Rejected mediation... the ONE thing that could save this.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Yes i think mediation would be a good thing . Armed confrontation is not , and i dont think Abhisit will go for it as children and elderly around

and some armed militia roaming .

Problem is that i begin to think that the reds are either not very intelligent OR the moderate leaders like Weng are not leading anything but themselves

judging from the mob stunt at the hospital . In which case mediation may backfire . Hope am wrong .

You are right on both counts.

1. The Reds are not very intelligent.

2 The "moderate" leaders like Weng are not leading anyone but themselves.

The only place for denial is Africa

[ChiangMaiFun]

quote]

WOW

I can come up with many things that could save this.

1) reds discontinue their illegal and violent protests and go home and wait for elections, after all the reds want Democracy --

2) government proves its case to the satisfaction of the people of Thailand. They arrest the black-shirted terrorists and all of the leaders that have publicly called for violence. Those that are convicted in either military court (if they are active military) or civilian court are then dealt with. Insurrection, Treason, Terrorism, ... they all carry the death sentence I think.

3) Someone IMPORTANT speaks up and makes a suggestion.

4) Thaksin dies of colon cancer and the impetus dries up.

5) The reds step over the line just one more time in a critical way.

Why FEAR mediation?

Only one of the two parties has any standing.

Not a single one of my answers included mediation. Mediation won't work in this case. I guess the reds should fear the government proving a strong case against the leaders. I also guess that the reds should honestly REALLY fear to step over the line one more time but that has nothing to do with anyone else but the reds.

None of the rest of the alternatives I suggested have anything to do with fear.

I know you didn't mention mediation in your answers - maybe the reds should fear mediataion - but Abhisit has rejected it which shows HE has something to fear.

[pornsasi]

<br />

Yours was an interesting post from someone actually "on the ground". Why spoil it by introducing unnecessary detail on a subject you clearly know nothing about?

<br />Belive me I have shot ALL the above mentioned weapons and you are talkin' soo far outta your ass <img src="http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="sad.gif" /> as to be NOT even funny.<br /><br />12 gauge slugs have a very slow FPS velocity, actually they are a much BETTER crowd crontol weapon as they selectively target people. And ALL 12 gauge "rubber rounds" are "sabot", (go Google it) meaning that they have a paper and/or plastic wrapping which falls away as the round travels out of the barrel, meaning ONLY the rubber hits the target, NOTHING else unless fired from less than 10M, when you get everything in your face!! <br /><br />I've shot more rounds than you would ever care to count, at both paper targets, as well as living beings. They are what I say they are. Don't ever dispute me about ammo again. <br />Like I said go Google it yourself if you don't know first hand. ..<br />

<br /><br /><br />

ALRIGHT BUT DONT SHOOT EACH OTHER , OK ?

[pornsasi]

<br />

<br />I see Abhisit has:<br /><br />Amid the simmering tensions, top think-tank the International Crisis Group (ICG) said Thailand must consider mediation from other countries to avoid a slide into further violence, a step which Abhisit rejected.<br /><br />Rejected mediation... the ONE thing that could save this.<br />

<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Yes i think mediation would be a good thing . Armed confrontation is not , and i dont think Abhisit will go for it as children and elderly around <br />and some armed militia roaming . <br /><br />Problem is that i begin to think that the reds are either not very intelligent OR the moderate leaders like Weng are not leading anything but themselves <br />judging from the mob stunt at the hospital . In which case mediation may backfire . Hope am wrong . <br /><br />

<br /><br />You think WENG is moderate? You are very very out of touch!<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Comparatively to Jatuporn , Sae Daeng , Arisman , of course ... .

Anyway they all promised to surrender on 15 May , did'nt they

[lannarebirth]

I know you didn't mention mediation in your answers - maybe the reds should fear mediataion - but Abhisit has rejected it which shows HE has something to fear.

Maybe he does,and I think this is why. I think he fears there will be a never ending cycle of conflict in Thailand if extra constitutional measures continue to be used for what is rightly the government's responsibility to take care of. I'm sure he believes, as do I, that it is the government's job to deal with insurgents using the personnel and institutions at its disposal. His job is complicated no doubt by the mercy he shows for women and children and old folks and other "non combatants", and also by a weak and disloyal police force. He is not the first PM to encounter ineffectiveness in this organization, but one can only hope he will be the last.

Edited May 2, 2010 by lannarebirth

[jdinasia]

WOW

I can come up with many things that could save this.

1) reds discontinue their illegal and violent protests and go home and wait for elections, after all the reds want Democracy --

2) government proves its case to the satisfaction of the people of Thailand. They arrest the black-shirted terrorists and all of the leaders that have publicly called for violence. Those that are convicted in either military court (if they are active military) or civilian court are then dealt with. Insurrection, Treason, Terrorism, ... they all carry the death sentence I think.

3) Someone IMPORTANT speaks up and makes a suggestion.

4) Thaksin dies of colon cancer and the impetus dries up.

5) The reds step over the line just one more time in a critical way.

Why FEAR mediation?

Mediation between a legitimate government and a bunch of fascist thugs ?

legitimate government? hahaha - anyway besides this foolish comment if we took your view about mediation we might as well disband the whole concept which has saved countless lives in many conflicts worldwide - never FEAR talking and mediation friend - if there's nothing to HIDE.

Are you back to questioning the legitimacy of the government after you have admitted (MANY TIMES!) that they gained power according to both the law and the precepts of Democracy? sad.

[jdinasia]

<br />

<br />I see Abhisit has:<br /><br />Amid the simmering tensions, top think-tank the International Crisis Group (ICG) said Thailand must consider mediation from other countries to avoid a slide into further violence, a step which Abhisit rejected.<br /><br />Rejected mediation... the ONE thing that could save this.<br />

<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Yes i think mediation would be a good thing . Armed confrontation is not , and i dont think Abhisit will go for it as children and elderly around <br />and some armed militia roaming . <br /><br />Problem is that i begin to think that the reds are either not very intelligent OR the moderate leaders like Weng are not leading anything but themselves <br />judging from the mob stunt at the hospital . In which case mediation may backfire . Hope am wrong . <br /><br />

<br /><br />You think WENG is moderate? You are very very out of touch!<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Comparatively to Jatuporn , Sae Daeng , Arisman , of course ... .

Anyway they all promised to surrender on 15 May , did'nt they

Why oh why can't you use the quote function properly?

Weng is no less extreme than others you mentioned with the possible exception of Sae Daeng .. and maybe Arsiaman. Weng has openly called for violence. Weng has a history that you may also want to research. He is an extremist of the first order.

[pornsasi]

<br /><br /><b>Tod</b>, let me remind you that <u>you</u> said "<i>And ALL 12 gauge "rubber rounds" are "sabot", (go Google it)</i>" and <u>I</u> replied "<i>If you are such an expert at "Googling" maybe you could give a simple link to your rubber bullet "sabot" rounds - a simple request for one of your experience.</i>" <u>Put up or shut up.</u><br /><br />Your link to Wiki (and if you have to resort to an unsourced and unreferenced article in Wiki you must be scraping the barrel, no pun intended) makes <u>no</u> mention of "<i>rubber rounds</i>" (they are actually called rubber <u>bullets</u>, for obvious reasons), <u>nor</u> does it say anywhere that "<i>ANYTHING which wraps a projectile is technically a 'sabot'.</i>" The picture you refer to is also <u>not</u> of a "<i>wad cup</i>", but of a cup sabot (your Wiki ref: "<i>A cup sabot merely supports the base and rear end of a projectile.</i>") for a hunting round designed for a rifled barrel and a slug designed specifically to kill deer and similar game.<br /><br />I really could not care less about the technicalities of this sort of thing, which is of absolutely no importance, but my point is that anyone who posts something which is deliberately embellished, even though it is unimportant, which can be easily verified as incorrect, can hardly be trusted to make an accurate post about something which <i>is</i> important but <i>cannot</i> be verified.<br /><br />If you can post a link showing that "<i> ALL 12 gauge "rubber rounds" are "sabot", (go Google it)</i>" I will apologize unreservedly; if not, then piss away as there is no point in further discussion.<br /><br /><br /><br />

No need for all those pitifull water pistols or such . An air-fuel bomb should do the trick . No bodies left , and they are quite gentle on buildings from what i hear ...

[rixalex]

legitimate government? hahaha

You yourself have accepted many many times CMF that this government is legitimate. Must you insist on taking the debate round in circles?

[pornsasi]

<br /><br />You think WENG is moderate? You are very very out of touch!<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Comparatively to Jatuporn , Sae Daeng , Arisman , of course ... . <br />Anyway they all promised to surrender on 15 May , did'nt they<br /><br /><br /><br />Why oh why can't you use the quote function properly?<br /><br />Weng is no less extreme than others you mentioned with the possible exception of Sae Daeng .. and maybe Arsiaman. Weng has openly called for violence. Weng has a history that you may also want to research. He is an extremist of the first order.<br /><br /><br /><br />

Server problems here ...

Yes Weng was a yellow before . He likes colourful shirts it seems . Well i only added Jatuporn to your list , so we agree at 66%

[ChiangMaiFun]

Are you back to questioning the legitimacy of the government after you have admitted (MANY TIMES!) that they gained power according to both the law and the precepts of Democracy? sad.

I have said they are there legally (as is Mugabe) but I have never suggested they have a mandate and are therefore legitimate in the eyes of the people (you know they are the ones that voted a red governement?)

[ChiangMaiFun]

legitimate government? hahaha

You yourself have accepted many many times CMF that this government is legitimate. Must you insist on taking the debate round in circles?

in the sense of legal, yes, but never in the sense of being the people's choice - in that sense it is not legitimate (though legal)

[jdinasia]

Maybe he does,and I think this is why. I think he fears there will be a never ending cycle of conflict in Thailand if extra constitutional measures continue to be used for what is rightly the government's responsibility to take care of. I'm sure he believes, as do I, that it is the government's job to deal with insurgents using the personnel and institutions at its disposal. His job is complicated no doubt by the mercy he shows for women and children and old folks and other "non combatants", and also by a weak and disloyal police force. He is not the first PM to encounter ineffectiveness in this organization, but one can only hope he will be the last.

What could a "mediator" say to a soveriegn government? Yes you are legal. Yes you are legitimate. Yes the reds are not conducting either a peaceful or a legal protest. Yes, you have offered to call elections a year early. Yes you have been patient and shown restraint in dealing with an illegal and violent group of insurgents, terrorists, and traitors.

What could the "mediator" say to the reds? Yes Thaksin's extra-constitutional government was removed by a military coup that was greeted with at the very least acquiescence by the entire nation. Yes, Thaksin's party was disbanded for electoral fraud. Yes, Thaksin's proxy party was caught on video and was also disbanded. Yes, both of those things hurt but were according to the law of the land. No, it does not appear that your protest has ANYTHING to do with Democracy, because if it did you would have accepted the government's offer to hold elections 1 year early! If you were about Democracy you would be protesting legally. If it were about Democracy you would not have armed terrorists in your encampment. If it were about Democracy your leaders would not call for violence by the red shirts. etc etc etc etc ...

Lannarebirth -- you are correct --- a seated government cannot give in to any mob. The PPP governments did not (rightly!) and neither can the democrats. The cycle of mobs has to end AND there can be no precedent set for giving in to the goals of an illegal and violent mob!

[ChiangMaiFun]

Maybe he does,and I think this is why. I think he fears there will be a never ending cycle of conflict in Thailand if extra constitutional measures continue to be used for what is rightly the government's responsibility to take care of. I'm sure he believes, as do I, that it is the government's job to deal with insurgents using the personnel and institutions at its disposal. His job is complicated no doubt by the mercy he shows for women and children and old folks and other "non combatants", and also by a weak and disloyal police force. He is not the first PM to encounter ineffectiveness in this organization, but one can only hope he will be the last.

What could a "mediator" say to a soveriegn government? Yes you are legal. Yes you are legitimate. Yes the reds are not conducting either a peaceful or a legal protest. Yes, you have offered to call elections a year early. Yes you have been patient and shown restraint in dealing with an illegal and violent group of insurgents, terrorists, and traitors.

What could the "mediator" say to the reds? Yes Thaksin's extra-constitutional government was removed by a military coup that was greeted with at the very least acquiescence by the entire nation. Yes, Thaksin's party was disbanded for electoral fraud. Yes, Thaksin's proxy party was caught on video and was also disbanded. Yes, both of those things hurt but were according to the law of the land. No, it does not appear that your protest has ANYTHING to do with Democracy, because if it did you would have accepted the government's offer to hold elections 1 year early! If you were about Democracy you would be protesting legally. If it were about Democracy you would not have armed terrorists in your encampment. If it were about Democracy your leaders would not call for violence by the red shirts. etc etc etc etc ...

Lannarebirth -- you are correct --- a seated government cannot give in to any mob. The PPP governments did not (rightly!) and neither can the democrats. The cycle of mobs has to end AND there can be no precedent set for giving in to the goals of an illegal and violent mob!

I can't believe that people would be against a 'neutral' way out of this mess - unbelievable! mediation is helpful in many confilcts - from industrial to wars - yet you prefer a 'crackdown' to a 'talkup' - bizarre

[TAWP]

I have said they are there legally (as is Mugabe) but I have never suggested they have a mandate and are therefore legitimate in the eyes of the people (you know they are the ones that voted a red governement?)

Can we have a blanket bann on individuals that post outright lies disproved hundreds of times?

It is clear it is not a misunderstanding but pure propaganda right now.

A hint: The 'reds' was NOT voted into any majority position. (If we now should equate PPP or PTP with the Reds.)

More people voted for the democrats in pure votes than for PPP.

Deal with it.

[ChiangMaiFun]

I have said they are there legally (as is Mugabe) but I have never suggested they have a mandate and are therefore legitimate in the eyes of the people (you know they are the ones that voted a red governement?)

Can we have a blanket bann on individuals that post outright lies disproved hundreds of times?

It is clear it is not a misunderstanding but pure propaganda right now.

A hint: The 'reds' was NOT voted into any majority position. (If we now should equate PPP or PTP with the Reds.)

More people voted for the democrats in pure votes than for PPP.

Deal with it.

It's just not true... many MPs were banned - remember? your analysis is weak and wrong - other MPs (red) crossed-the-floor probably due to 'inducements' - the red government were booted out WITHOUT an election - you deal 'it'

[jdinasia]

I have said they are there legally (as is Mugabe) but I have never suggested they have a mandate and are therefore legitimate in the eyes of the people (you know they are the ones that voted a red governement?)

Can we have a blanket bann on individuals that post outright lies disproved hundreds of times?

It is clear it is not a misunderstanding but pure propaganda right now.

A hint: The 'reds' was NOT voted into any majority position. (If we now should equate PPP or PTP with the Reds.)

More people voted for the democrats in pure votes than for PPP.

Deal with it.

He knows this and has admitted it many times .... he knows the numbers. He speaks about the "feelings" of people instead of the rule of law.

Facts are facts --- all governments accept Thailand's current government. The only people that don't admittedly are the reds that do not understand democracy and "feel" or "believe" that the rules should no apply to them.

[pornsasi]

<br />

Maybe he does,and I think this is why. I think he fears there will be a never ending cycle of conflict in Thailand if extra constitutional measures continue to be used for what is rightly the government's responsibility to take care of. I'm sure he believes, as do I, that it is the government's job to deal with insurgents using the personnel and institutions at its disposal. His job is complicated no doubt by the mercy he shows for women and children and old folks and other "non combatants", and also by a weak and disloyal police force. He is not the first PM to encounter ineffectiveness in this organization, but one can only hope he will be the last.

<br /><br />What could a "mediator" say to a soveriegn government? Yes you are legal. Yes you are legitimate. Yes the reds are not conducting either a peaceful or a legal protest. Yes, you have offered to call elections a year early. Yes you have been patient and shown restraint in dealing with an illegal and violent group of insurgents, terrorists, and traitors.<br /><br />What could the "mediator" say to the reds? Yes Thaksin's extra-constitutional government was removed by a military coup that was greeted with at the very least acquiescence by the entire nation. Yes, Thaksin's party was disbanded for electoral fraud. Yes, Thaksin's proxy party was caught on video and was also disbanded. Yes, both of those things hurt but were according to the law of the land. No, it does not appear that your protest has ANYTHING to do with Democracy, because if it did you would have accepted the government's offer to hold elections 1 year early! If you were about Democracy you would be protesting legally. If it were about Democracy you would not have armed terrorists in your encampment. If it were about Democracy your leaders would not call for violence by the red shirts. etc etc etc etc ...<br /><br /><br />Lannarebirth -- you are correct --- a seated government cannot give in to any mob. The PPP governments did not (rightly!) and neither can the democrats. The cycle of mobs has to end AND there can be no precedent set for giving in to the goals of an illegal and violent mob!<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Not that i want to put fuel on fire , and i dont like Thaksin anyway but he was care taker PM at the moment of the coup only because the dems boycotted the April 2006 elections and more to the point

paid bribes to other smaller parties to do the same . Else Thaksin would have been elected . Same had elections been held in October 2006 .

TRT counter bribed in April 2006 , and was disbanded in 2007 for that while the dems were not . In spite of both beeing convicted so to speak by the attorney general .

Anyway bottom line is that order has to be restored , I agree , but not if possible with more loss of lives

[ChiangMaiFun]

<br />

Maybe he does,and I think this is why. I think he fears there will be a never ending cycle of conflict in Thailand if extra constitutional measures continue to be used for what is rightly the government's responsibility to take care of. I'm sure he believes, as do I, that it is the government's job to deal with insurgents using the personnel and institutions at its disposal. His job is complicated no doubt by the mercy he shows for women and children and old folks and other "non combatants", and also by a weak and disloyal police force. He is not the first PM to encounter ineffectiveness in this organization, but one can only hope he will be the last.

<br /><br />What could a "mediator" say to a soveriegn government? Yes you are legal. Yes you are legitimate. Yes the reds are not conducting either a peaceful or a legal protest. Yes, you have offered to call elections a year early. Yes you have been patient and shown restraint in dealing with an illegal and violent group of insurgents, terrorists, and traitors.<br /><br />What could the "mediator" say to the reds? Yes Thaksin's extra-constitutional government was removed by a military coup that was greeted with at the very least acquiescence by the entire nation. Yes, Thaksin's party was disbanded for electoral fraud. Yes, Thaksin's proxy party was caught on video and was also disbanded. Yes, both of those things hurt but were according to the law of the land. No, it does not appear that your protest has ANYTHING to do with Democracy, because if it did you would have accepted the government's offer to hold elections 1 year early! If you were about Democracy you would be protesting legally. If it were about Democracy you would not have armed terrorists in your encampment. If it were about Democracy your leaders would not call for violence by the red shirts. etc etc etc etc ...<br /><br /><br />Lannarebirth -- you are correct --- a seated government cannot give in to any mob. The PPP governments did not (rightly!) and neither can the democrats. The cycle of mobs has to end AND there can be no precedent set for giving in to the goals of an illegal and violent mob!<br />

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Not that i want to put fuel on fire , and i dont like Thaksin anyway but he was care taker PM at the moment of the coup only because the dems boycotted the April 2006 elections and more to the point

paid bribes to other smaller parties to do the same . Else Thaksin would have been elected . Same had elections been held in October 2006 .

TRT counter bribed in April 2006 , and was disbanded in 2007 for that while the dems were not . In spite of both beeing convicted so to speak by the attorney general .

Anyway bottom line is that order has to be restored , I agree , but not if possible with more loss of lives

Because (drum roll) the yellows 'control' everything and anytime the reds win they are banned or 'induced' to change sides - it's all utter, utter BS - anyway it needs to end - peacefully - if Abhisit announces a timeline for elections that should do it - but he doesn't he fiddles while BKK burns - probably because his masters have told him too - some of this we can't discuss anyway.

[Tod Daniels]

Not that i want to put fuel on fire <SNIP>

Little fuzzy on your facts are you ‘pornsai’? It might behoove you to actually read the posts by 'jdinasia' (take him off ignore ) It is true that the OAG forwarded BOTH cases to the Constitutional Court, but only the TRT was found guilty. Sorry, an intelligent person MIGHT be lead to believe that either the Demz were not Guilty or there was insufficient evidence to prove their guilt. (Then again, for the Red Apologists out there; please disregard the term an intelligent person in the above sentence as the two terms cannot be used in the same sentence as they are mutually contradictory ).

Also Thaksin was caretaker P/M because HE dissolved the Lower House to STALL due process NOT any other reason. In fact he was actually in expired caretaker status when he was coup’d out by the military.

Unless I am mistaken when the public called for UN intervention and/or mediation during the Thaksin days his answer was "The UN is not my father'. That thailand is xenophobic to the n-th degree should come as NO surprise to anyone whose lived here even a small amount of time. They want to solve their problems internally, and as a country have a right to do that. Anyone seen any UN peacekeepers in the south since the violence down there started? Hmmm, I think that is NO… .

I thought it was quite interesting (and telling) that the PTP did the abrupt about face and reversed their stance on calling for a no confidence vote in the Lower House; especially after tooting their own horn to anyone who’d listen about how they were all fired up to do just that.

The reason they backed out is quite simple; During a no confidence vote the Dems could counter each and every charge the PTP leveled at them with things like facts. They (the Dems) could also call into question some of the PTP's actions. It had NOTHING to do with the PTP's p/r (in this case p/r means paranoia rhetoric) statement 'the government has blood on its hands', and everything to do with the PTP's allegations against the Dems not holding up to close scrutiny and/or serious public debate.

This is an internal, very, VERY localized, political thing for thailand. Drive 5 kilometers in any direction and you’d be hard pressed to even know which way the reds were camped out in their bamboo/rubber tire forts.

No matter how you spin it, in ANY way, shape or form it is NOTHING even close to resembling a 'civil war'. Few if ANY former prime ministers who faced things like this have EVER embraced outside mediation. In fact I don't believe even a single one ever has. (someone should Google it, personally I don’t care).

Like I said, first the redz went to the UN, then the EU, and as they work their way down the list I'm sure they'll find someone somewhere who cares (Castro, Chavez & the Burma Junta come to mind). It sure ain't gonna be ANY of the first world countries; who already know this entire chain of events is nothing more than a single political party's disenfranchisement in the way things played out post coup, once their guys; Samak & Somchai were axed due to violating electoral and constitutional laws.

Now it should come as no surprise that the above mentioned first world countries are going to come out with politically correct statements about ending the strife without violence and/or condemning the violence. &lt;deleted&gt; are they gonna say; ‘We hope you kill each other?; Sheesh . .

Red Shirt apologists are quick to forget; the Demz are in power under the exact same laws and same constitution which Samak and Somchai ran their governments under.

This only shows that a savvy political party can; by getting a majority of MP's in the Lower House on their side, get the MANDATE 'from the people' to run the government. The country has none other than Newin Chidchob to thank for this.

This whole thing is just sour grapes on the part of the ex-TRT/ex-PPP/now-PTP that once Newin and his "friends of Newin" group defected to the Dems side giving them the majority of MP's the PTP didn’t like it one bit.

IMHO the PTP should suck it up, be the party in opposition like a MINORITY party is supposed to, and when it's time for elections get your constituents to vote your MP's back in.

As an aside whacky-weng is far from a moderate on that team, as well as being prone to rambling about nothing of consequence for hours on end. Granted he's less violence prone that the fire-brands; Natthawut, Suporn, Arisman, and Jatuporn, but the real moderate (and possibly the key to this whole mess) is Veera Musikapong. For those not listening to Red Rachaprasong Radio, he has been noticeably absent from speaking, and is hardly ever one of the smiling 'three-stooges' during the photo-op camera sessions they do which they erroneously call 'press conferences'.

AND NOW BACK TO THE PISSING MATCH ALREADY IN PROGRESS