Thai Protesters Brace For Crackdown As Compromise Rejected

[barnsworth]

http://tweetphoto.com/19879049

I hope there will be enough fire trucks about tonight

Across from CP tower this morning about 9.00 am on PP2 there were two huge black and brand new water cannon trucks.

Wonder what they will look like on Television when they are on their sides!

Well guarded!! Wonder which side they have pumped their money into!

[Redsunset]

http://tweetphoto.com/19879049

I hope there will be enough fire trucks about tonight

Why? Everytime Abhisit or someone in the government says something is going to happen, nothing happens. As far as I can tell, Arisman is th only person who gets things done. Everyone else is just all talk and no action.

I do not condone what Arisman does, but at least he gets results. Abhisit is the biggest bullsh*tter I've ever heard. Anupong is out to lunch. He needs to go take his afternoon nap.

[barnsworth]

Another important thing to remember is this "PROPAGANDA WAR" is that :

The UDD have requested and demanded "Independent Investigations" into April the 10th and April the 22nd.

The government have refused the April 10th demand, and will likely also refuse an Independent investigation into the April 22nd Silom happening.

Now ask yourself, why are so called and labelled "Terrorists" requesting Independent Investigations, and why are the Government refusing them ?

Intelligent people should ponder and think about that.

Intelligent people know that an independent investigation is underway AND that Reds stole bodies from hospital morgues to destroy evidence.

Your mates?

[Redsunset]

This whole red shirt rally is just a total waste of time.... wake me up when someone actually does something... typical huffing and puffing.... reminds me of the Wizard of Oz... just a fat old man behind a curtain.

[chadintheusa]

Another important thing to remember is this "PROPAGANDA WAR" is that :

The UDD have requested and demanded "Independent Investigations" into April the 10th and April the 22nd.

The government have refused the April 10th demand, and will likely also refuse an Independent investigation into the April 22nd Silom happening.

Now ask yourself, why are so called and labelled "Terrorists" requesting Independent Investigations, and why are the Government refusing them ?

Intelligent people should ponder and think about that.

The reds are just muddying the waters. Who do they want to do the investigation. If it is a government agency they will claim it's biased. If it's their people they can fix the outcome. Who is truly independent and capable of doing the investigation? The investigation will take time, and if it comes to a conclusion they don't like they'll just dispute the findings anyway. If the PM stated that the sky is blue the reds would deny it on principle. You are never going to present enough evidence to a fanatic and have them say "sorry, I guess I was wrong".

[Netfan]

When governments refuse "Independent Investigations" its because.....................

Come on, you should know why.

I love the way that no video evidence of anything has been released and yet Yellow posters claim there is evidence.

Unless the evidence is released and confirmed 100% accurate by Independent sources, its nothing.

However, an eye witness report (collaborated) that they saw the flashes come from high floors of a nearby building, well thats real time, and released and on record.

Eyewitness by who? Collaborated by who? Video? Reported by what media? LINKS? Never mind, you don't have them. Just keep posting your made up propaganda, as you said it is a propaganda war; trouble is, your claims/fantasies are all unverifiable.

[chadintheusa]

This whole red shirt rally is just a total waste of time.... wake me up when someone actually does something... typical huffing and puffing.... reminds me of the Wizard of Oz... just a fat old man behind a curtain.

If they only had a brain.

[Redsunset]

Why don't the red shirts just wear bow ties and no shirts and call themselves the Red Chippendales

[rabo]

So yesterday, I tell her the red leaders have told their people not to wear red. She is as I type, watching the events on tv. "Oh now they change shirts" she says. I reply in an exasperated tone. "I told you that yesterday!". Her response, "OK I no talk with you."

Sounds like our wives are sistars

Farang tell Thai wife something

Get ready for argument and sulky face

But we love em

Thai wife, happy, singing lightly, comes to door.

Opens door, change face, sulking, could be anger.

Negotiate, compromise. OK OK

Turns around, still sad

Closes door, continues same song.

Life in Thailand.

[jamesjdaly]

My intel on the ground.........

A couple of Coke tins tied together with string!??

[Redsunset]

Nattawut, Chatuporn and Veera as the new leaders of the RED CHIPPENDALES!!!

[LuckyFive8888]

the key to resolving this is Veera

he is currently the weakest/least resolute of the red leaders

in the face to face negotiations with Abhisit, he was the most reasonable and receptive to making a deal

he is rumoured to have been talking to Abhisits secretary about a six month dissolution

he is rumoured to be talking to the US about exile when this is over

he is moving to the right of Jataporn and Weng

there have been rumours that he is ready to walk away after the grenades at Silom

its clear he is sick and tired of all this violence and the rally has diverted a long way from where he thought it would go.

its clear he has a social conscience and is looking at what might happen in Thailand if common ground is not found to resolve this

the police/army should make Veera's capture a priority or reach out to him to make a deal

Veera would co-operate easily and make an amnesty deal with the government to sell out the reds and Thaksin

he would need a new ID, new passport, safe passage to US for him and his family

also he would need to be allowed to keep Thaksins money in his bank account

maybe even a sweetener of 20 million, whatever is neccesary.

they need a secondary confirmation of Methee's confession to make it credible and believable to the reds

if Veera was captured and turned, this would be over in hours not days

Good analysis and I agree it's really a possibility though I still believe that all the leaders be captured and trust me most of them will sing except maybe Jatuporn.

I think Methee is afraid of the possible death penalty if he is proven so "sing" now to lessen the sentence against him. Unfortunately, he has been labeled a fake Red now, poor guy, all his contributions and sacrifices flushed in the bin.

If they sing (the leaders), the Reds will finally realise that this crusade is just about Thaksin and not for their genuine cause.

[animatic]

The man, Narong Panpetch, was driver of a BTS Skytrain traveling between Sala Daeng and Ratchadamri stations and is said to have told investigators that he saw “flashes come from upper floor windows” of the landmark department store building. A women, whose identity has not been released, is also reported to have told investigators she saw the same thing, just seconds before the grenades struck.

OOOOOOh

My betting was that with all the thousands of police and army survailing the rally site (we saw the cameras on BBC report) They must have seen 5 flashes. They have an entire team in there just filming and photographing the Red Rally. What next, from the Government, All 500 cameras in the area (not just the ones the reds pointed at the sky) we not working due to them been procured during the rain of Thaksin the Terrible.

In which case, they would have been all over TV as proof of who fired them.

Robinsons eh, Is that in Lumpin Park?

Well there is the subtle hint of the 5 military historied guys arrested in 'landmark'.

Gee, might be some subtle connection there. Huh? Ya think?

Edited April 25, 2010 by animatic

[Redsunset]

the key to resolving this is Veera

he is currently the weakest/least resolute of the red leaders

in the face to face negotiations with Abhisit, he was the most reasonable and receptive to making a deal

he is rumoured to have been talking to Abhisits secretary about a six month dissolution

he is rumoured to be talking to the US about exile when this is over

he is moving to the right of Jataporn and Weng

there have been rumours that he is ready to walk away after the grenades at Silom

its clear he is sick and tired of all this violence and the rally has diverted a long way from where he thought it would go.

its clear he has a social conscience and is looking at what might happen in Thailand if common ground is not found to resolve this

the police/army should make Veera's capture a priority or reach out to him to make a deal

Veera would co-operate easily and make an amnesty deal with the government to sell out the reds and Thaksin

he would need a new ID, new passport, safe passage to US for him and his family

also he would need to be allowed to keep Thaksins money in his bank account

maybe even a sweetener of 20 million, whatever is neccesary.

they need a secondary confirmation of Methee's confession to make it credible and believable to the reds

if Veera was captured and turned, this would be over in hours not days

Good analysis and I agree it's really a possibility though I still believe that all the leaders be captured and trust me most of them will sing except maybe Jatuporn.

I think Methee is afraid of the possible death penalty if he is proven so "sing" now to lessen the sentence against him. Unfortunately, he has been labeled a fake Red now, poor guy, all his contributions and sacrifices flushed in the bin.

If they sing (the leaders), the Reds will finally realise that this crusade is just about Thaksin and not for their genuine cause.

Rumored this, rumored that.... blah blah blah.... you are starting to sound like an old lady with nothing to do

[LevelHead]

Another important thing to remember is this "PROPAGANDA WAR" is that :

The UDD have requested and demanded "Independent Investigations" into April the 10th and April the 22nd.

The government have refused the April 10th demand, and will likely also refuse an Independent investigation into the April 22nd Silom happening.

Now ask yourself, why are so called and labelled "Terrorists" requesting Independent Investigations, and why are the Government refusing them ?

Intelligent people should ponder and think about that.

Intelligent people know that an independent investigation is underway AND that Reds stole bodies from hospital morgues to destroy evidence.

No its not.

Democrats and Coalition partners REFUSED an Independent Investigation on the April 10th incident.

They voted it down.

WHY ?

Why do the people labelled "terrorists" want an investigation, and yet the government refuses it ?

Answers on a post card please.

[senti]

Another important thing to remember is this "PROPAGANDA WAR" is that :

The UDD have requested and demanded "Independent Investigations" into April the 10th and April the 22nd.

The government have refused the April 10th demand, and will likely also refuse an Independent investigation into the April 22nd Silom happening.

Now ask yourself, why are so called and labelled "Terrorists" requesting Independent Investigations, and why are the Government refusing them ?

Intelligent people should ponder and think about that.

Who, exactly, would decide what an "independent investigation" is? Reds? Yellows? PM? You?

[Redsunset]

This whole red shirt rally is just a total waste of time.... wake me up when someone actually does something... typical huffing and puffing.... reminds me of the Wizard of Oz... just a fat old man behind a curtain.

If they only had a brain.

Toto is smarter than the whole lot of them...

[rabo]

When governments refuse "Independent Investigations" its because.....................

Come on, you should know why.

I love the way that no video evidence of anything has been released and yet Yellow posters claim there is evidence.

Unless the evidence is released and confirmed 100% accurate by Independent sources, its nothing.

However, an eye witness report (collaborated) that they saw the flashes come from high floors of a nearby building, well thats real time, and released and on record.

Flash cameras reflecting from the windows, glass, bright surfaces, I see it all the time.

Edited April 25, 2010 by rabo

[Redsunset]

Actually..... I think they discovered that the grenades came from on yonder... over there at the grassy knoll....

[bartlaz]

(sorry for my english)

There is something i can't understand:

i want to make it clear first that i don't support reds neither yellows. I'm for peace and democracy

So, am i stupid or i've missed something?

i understand why some thais are yellow but i don't understand why many farangs are yellow and post defamatory messages against reds calling them terrorists.

i don't know who is the good and the bad,

-what i know is 4 years the reds govern the country and the yellow took the country after a coup d'etat.

-after 1 year or so the reds win the new DEMOCRATIC elections.

-1 year later the yellow take the govern again because the occupy and block the airport.

-reds ask for new elections using the yellow strategy: occupying

so reds are terrorists? if yes, it means yellow are terrorist as well. used the same strategy. if yes it means someone don't know what is terrorism

yellows are democratic?

what i think is: good or not the reds won the elections in a democratic way but the yellow took govern in an undemocratic way.

if in my country would happen something like that, and i were red, i would be very angry and disappointed.

So many posts make me confused. someone could explain why they support yellows and call reds terrorists? I DON'T UNDERSTAND

It's quite simple actually. If the yellows had shot soldiers, fired grenades at public buildings, and killed a civilians and injured others by attacking the skytrain we would have labeled them terrorists. But since it is the reds that took the path of violence they are the ones labeled terrorists. It's not just the occupation, it's the violence. So that's the part you missed.

Maybe because 2 years ago the reds leaved after few days the yellow occupied the airport ( threatening them by using soldiers). What u think would have happened if Samak and red would have not gave up?

Now, after months, the yellow don't leave and call for new election. People are tired. this leads to the violence

Why yellow don't stop the violence as the reds dids 2 years ago and give up calling for new elections? why???

[commons]

{snipped for brevity}

The potential bloodlust lies in the hands of Abhisit, the reality of what is going on in Thailnad under the surface has been obvious to anyone who wanted to really take a good look at the situation for many years now

dear VegasVic, i'm a bit handicapped looking "at reality" "under the surface". if you've time, would you please supply some sources for "potential bloodlust" lying "in the hands of Abhisit", "obvious to anyone who wanted to really take a good luck at the situation for many years now." it seems, you're one of those who did the latter. so, please step forward, supply evidence and sources, and enlighten my ignorance.

thanks a lot in advance, na khrap.

[chadintheusa]

Nattawut, Chatuporn and Veera as the new leaders of the RED CHIPPENDALES!!!

Worst gogo bar ever!

[LevelHead]

The man, Narong Panpetch, was driver of a BTS Skytrain traveling between Sala Daeng and Ratchadamri stations and is said to have told investigators that he saw “flashes come from upper floor windows” of the landmark department store building. A women, whose identity has not been released, is also reported to have told investigators she saw the same thing, just seconds before the grenades struck.

OOOOOOh

My betting was that with all the thousands of police and army survailing the rally site (we saw the cameras on BBC report) They must have seen 5 flashes. They have an entire team in there just filming and photographing the Red Rally. What next, from the Government, All 500 cameras in the area (not just the ones the reds pointed at the sky) we not working due to them been procured during the rain of Thaksin the Terrible.

In which case, they would have been all over TV as proof of who fired them.

Robinsons eh, Is that in Lumpin Park?

Well there is the subtle hint of the 5 military historied guys arrested in Landmark.

Gee, might be some subtle connection there. Huh? Ya think?

We agree on something, thats most strange.

Yes, it seems the boys at the front line were not aware they should not have arrested "those" men.

"Those" men were supposed to quietly make their exit whilst the whole Yellow propaganda machine said it was reds and fired from Lumphini and backed up by the missing video from the BTS.

However some of the front line boys arrested them and so this was the lead story until it quietly got swept under the carpet and the "men" disappeared after being released.

Owing the actual men being "wrongly (not the plan)" arrested by some over active boys on the front line (and so some watermelon police/army knowing of what happened), its said the "false flag" event and its video and everything else was decided to be "binned".

Keep an eye on the Silom event to be conveniently "forgotten" and swept very deeply under the carpet.

Edited April 25, 2010 by LevelHead

[brahmburgers]

Its bloody obvious that some, if not all, (of the grenades of April 22) were fired from "high floors" of a nearby building.

Somebody looks at a building at night and sees some momentary flashes. He thinks something was fired from high up on that building. Note: buildings have windows. Windows have glass. Glass reflects, particularly at night. That lone observer could have seen reflections. Meanwhile, security cameras indicate the grenades were fired from areas where Reds were camped.

What's needed is 24/7 surveillance with as many good quality cameras as possible. Reds will inevitably deny anything that might tarnish their already tarnished reputation. For a week they've denied they're fans of Thaksin. Now they're even abandoning their Red clothes, in order to easier run from responsibility.

Levelhead, you're so adept at aping every silly policy statement that's issued from the Reds. You're really painting yourself in to a corner of ridiculousness, right along with the Red shirt leaders.

[madi]

By RAVI NESSMAN, Associated Press Writer Ravi Nessman, Associated Press Writer – 2 hrs 4 mins ago

BANGKOK – Thai protesters occupying parts of Bangkok to press their demands for new elections vowed Sunday to fight on following a breakdown of negotiations and a televised appearance by the prime minister that offered no solution to the protracted, sometimes bloody crisis.

The so-called Red Shirts urged their supporters in provincial areas to confront the security forces, and many of them began setting up roadblocks outside Bangkok to prevent police reinforcements from entering the city.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva spoke in a nationally televised interview alongside the army chief Sunday, in an apparent effort to dispel persistent rumors that there is a rift between him and the military.

The broadcast came a day after Abhisit rejected a compromise offer by the Red Shirts — who say the current government is illegitimate — dashing hopes for a peaceful end to the standoff.

"We won't go home until we win," a protest leader, Khwanchai Praipana, told supporters following Abhisit's appearance.

He said many police and soldiers in the provinces sided with the protesters, and had even asked them to prevent fresh security forces from reaching Bangkok.

"Most police based in the provinces don't want to come deal with the Red Shirts in Bangkok," he said.

More than 1,000 protesters set up a roadblock overnight along a major highway, deflating the tires of 13 police vans and preventing police reinforcements from reaching Bangkok from the northeast province of Udon Thani, the government said.

Another 300 protesters set up roadblocks on the outskirts of the capital Sunday afternoon to stop hundreds of other police from entering the city, police officials said.

Protesters in the Nong Kai province also tried to block police from heading to Bangkok, but the security forces changed their route, the government said.

Clashes in Bangkok have killed at least 26 people and wounded nearly 1,000 since the Red Shirts began occupying Bangkok's commercial center more than a month ago, closing down five-star hotels and shopping malls, paralyzing daily life in the city and costing merchants millions of dollars a day.

The conflict has been characterized by some as class warfare, pitting protesters from the country's vast rural poor against an elite that has traditionally held power.

"The solution process is ongoing but may not please everyone. The government, and not only the military, is preparing to be ready for what would lead to the next level," Abhisit said in a short statement to the interviewer.

He did not specify whether the "next level" meant security forces would move to clear the Red Shirt enclave, but government and military leaders have said that the protesters cannot remain in the heart of Bangkok indefinitely.

The program went off the air briefly, with the prime minister later blaming the disruption on "ill-intentioned people." Thailand's police force, army and other agencies are believed to be infiltrated by Red Shirt supporters, but it was unclear whether the opposition somehow disrupted the television signal.

Thai army chief Gen. Anupong Paochinda, who sat beside Abhisit, said the crisis must be solved by legal means and denied there were any significant divisions within military ranks.

"Being a huge organization, it's possible but the number isn't significant enough to say that the military is divided. More importantly, everyone strictly follows orders," he said.

"We won't use violence but as I've said earlier, the situation has escalated toward violence so the military will have to adjust its measures," the army chief said.

While stopping short of accusing the Red Shirts, Abhisit said that rocket-propelled grenades fired in Thursday's violence in the heart of the city's financial district were launched from a protest stronghold by "terrorists." At least one person was killed Thursday, and 25 others died April 10 during clashes as soldiers unsuccessfully tried to clear the protesters from one of their camps.

Abhisit said he initially underestimated the protest movement. "I admit, I didn't expect to see such a force ready to go this far," he said.

The protesters had previously demanded Parliament be dissolved immediately, while the government said it would disband parliament in six months.

The Red Shirts softened their stance Friday, offering a compromise of 30 days to disband the legislature in a move they said was aimed at preventing further bloodshed. Abhisit rejected that offer.

Meanwhile, six Red Shirts who had been camped at the protesters' increasingly disheveled stronghold in the streets of Bangkok tested positive for the swine flu, BMA General Hospital officials said Sunday.

The Red Shirts consist mainly of rural supporters of former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra and pro-democracy activists who opposed the military coup that ousted him in 2006. They believe Abhisit's government is illegitimate because it came to power under military pressure through a parliamentary vote after disputed court rulings ousted two elected pro-Thaksin governments.

[atyclb]

Discussion and opinions are important .

our views and insights , shared, give us scope.

its not really Farangs' problems but some of of live here and work or do business or whatever.. so we are concerned.

Sure it is "farangs" problems. Political unrest has led to Patpong venue closure, limited alcohol served in Nana area, who knows, next will be closure of Nana, Cowboy, or perhaps even the holy city "Pattaya"

Are they really limiting alcohol at nana??

And agree it is a problem for us who are here. The Thai people encourage us to be here and as tourists they have a responsibility to protect our interests too. Yes, it is not our really our business regarding politics but having thugs and terrorists take over tourist areas certainly is a concern we can and should voice our opinions about.

Very recently due to the protests, the Nana venues serving alcohol had a one drink per customer limit they were enforcing.

[agord]

Another important thing to remember is this "PROPAGANDA WAR" is that :

The UDD have requested and demanded "Independent Investigations" into April the 10th and April the 22nd.

The government have refused the April 10th demand, and will likely also refuse an Independent investigation into the April 22nd Silom happening.

Now ask yourself, why are so called and labelled "Terrorists" requesting Independent Investigations, and why are the Government refusing them ?

Intelligent people should ponder and think about that.

[/quote

lies lies more lies the reds have a big problem with the truth so of course would ask for an investigation so they could lie some more and call black white and white black.

No investigation needed because everyone BUT YOU already understands the mo of these terrorists, we have their speeches full of violence on record....you go on and on like a broken record refusing to see what's in plain sight to everyone else.

[brahmburgers]

"We won't use violence but as I've said earlier, the situation has escalated toward violence so the military will have to adjust its measures," the army chief said.

In typical Thai fashion, he asserts one thing, but doesn't refute its opposite.

As for the increasingly fatalistic mob who have barricaded themselves in downtown Bkk:

Anyone not familiar with the Jim Jones story, should take a moment to google it. The Reds are devolving quickly to a collectively numbed-minded place: A mob of v. desperate people who succumb to self-destruction, when harangued to mindlessness by a crazed leadership.

Edited April 25, 2010 by brahmburgers

[commons]

{snipped for brevity}

From what I could see in Bangkok and was told some cities in the South also, the northern products are being boycotted by some (likely multicolor shirt supporters).

This is indeed a very bad sign, as the weakest of all, the farmers that have their produce as their only source of income could suffer tremendously.

I don't think farmers themselves can AFFORD to close the tap. Their middlemen could.

But here's the thing - who these farmers should really take their anger out at are their middlemen, as with not more than a few days of educational course on economics could empower these people to keep a lot more for themselves.

Or maybe teach them how to balance what they produce, maybe spread out from one product to several, in case one thing doesn't sell well or is underpriced, they can patch up income by something else.

Have you ever heard that one about instead of giving a fish to a hungry man, teach him how to catch a fish?

Thaksin gave them a fish... well, maybe not the whole fish but anyway... Someone (and I am seriously willing to participate in this, even financially) should instead teach them how to catch a fish.

Typical post by a city dweller Those farmers in the countryside have been living off the land for hundreds of generations just fine, long before paved roads, cars, TV's and cellphones, and they can very easily live without Bangkok, but should food shipments from the countryside be totaly cuttoff to Bangkok (either willingly by the growers or by rebels turning back trucks and boats) then the residents of Bangkok will find out within a matter of weeks just who holds the ultimate power in Thailand

i'm sorry, sir. you got this wrong. with advent of thaksin, he shared something with "Those farmers in the countryside have been living off the land for hundreds of generations just fine". as at least one other poster pointedly stated: he shared GREED.

i don't know where you live; but where _i_ do live and where i travel the "way of live" of "hundreds of generations" being fine, content, and happy - has been devastated in less than one generation.

yes, people these days yearn for cars, tv's, cellphones and lots of more stuff. tv shows dreams, illusions, nightmares - that seem attractive for anybody who's not media-educated. and i do know, most farang, believe it's some birth-right to _want_ stuff, to _run a rat-race_ for possessions, and that's what makes for wealth or a happy live.

well, i disagree. btw, that kind of life-style is unsustainable. it's self-destructive for human species.

-

having said that, you're one of those who gleefully indulge in some fantasy of hatred and division. let's read your posts about situation in usa, ok? i'm soory, that's just _your_ cultural baggage - and i'd say, it's not very helpful for current situation in thailand.

-

finally, i'm sorry to disappoint you. this is 21st century. _power_ rests with those who manage information; money in 21st century is information: digits being calculated. if you propose this kind of hateful and divisive approach, rice-farmers should "cutoff food shipments to bangkok", imho, you only prove your ignorance:

1) "food shipments to bangkok" are _not_ managed by "rice-farmers". in what kind of reality you live?

2) it's _money_ that shapes reality. if there's no food-supply coming from north-east, market will adjust. that's all. north east simply will be out of market. if _that's_ what you obviously propose - i suggest _you'll_ be there when _that_ happens.

[bartlaz]

(sorry for my english)

Stop pretending you're not just another reincarnation of the existing red PR machine.

i'm not red. just want to understand why yellow can govern the country when the lost democratic elections but doing it occupying the country in the same way as the reds are doing now, and call reds terrorist when they can't govern the country even the won elections.

tell me this is a yellow Dictatorship for Thailand own good, and i will understand and stop posting questions.

but don't tell me the yellow are holding on for the democracy.

Democracy has Greek root: Demo=people, Crat=rule

If people want Thaksin, give him to them. that is democracy