Thai Protesters Brace For Crackdown As Compromise Rejected

[ratcatcher]

And now the majority of thais are criminals just because they dont agree with you .

Wonderful ...

IMHO I think BkJohn was trying to point out that the Red Shirts are not all iron buffalo driving rice farmers, but very likely

wealthy supporters of Thaksin who make their money on the backs of the very Isaan poor they claim to represent. These are

possibly the 'rice barons', loan sharks and general poo yais that keep the lowly farmers lowly. And yes, every Mafia boss

drives these vehicles, so you do have a huge gathering of 'criminals'. But quite likely no more than you'd find shopping at

Paragon or Emporium on a Saturday.

[jcbangkok]

These were taken on the 2nd or 3rd gathering here of the multi-colored shirts whose numbers have grown significantly in their rallies while the red mobs numbers have gone down considerably. Anyone who denies these facts are delusional.

[Pakboong]

Oh well, thank you to the Reds and Thaksin for destroying Thailand.

Abhisit will go down as the most educated Thai Prime Minister who (as often is the case with intelligent people) had no common sense whatsoever. He has already lost so why not just go for a good old British compromise where noone loses face. Where the buffalo smiley when you need it?

Main issue is not his arrogance, not his intelligence, nor even his common sense....

they just expected him to act like a Thai, and he DIDN'T!]

Must have been quite confusing for many of them....

He acted like a national leader would be expected to act most anywhere else.

And there is the problem, he's really Thai, but his education bred much of the

raw roots out of him and replaced it with a proper international perspective.

Which of course is rather confusing to many, if not all, Thais.

Farang BAA!

How could you not know that the guy is 100% Chinese??

[jcbangkok]

The authoritarian farangs who post here are likely to get what they are drooling for - a massacre.

So the Reds threaten this, that & the other? So what else power have the poor got? They have been blocked from the ballot, they got no machine guns, tanks or artillery, & little money.

Their crooked 'leader' is removed by the equally crooked mafiosi of BKK.

What they got left but protest & verbals?

Whenever democracy raises its head in Thailand, the answer from BKK is a massacre. If the rednecks read a little history, they would know this. But authoritarians don't want to know. They don't want democracy, they want 'peace, law & order' - like you get in a prison or a graveyard. The residents there have limited ability to disturb the fun of expat wrinklies. The latter will be able to smile on in the Land of Smiles.

Others, pray for a miracle. OGT

I agree with you .

I have been reading the foreign press (CNN,BBC ,Le Monde, Amnesty international and others ) for last 5 weeks on the BKK events , nowhere , not a single time have i seen the red shirt movement described as a terrorist movement .

Those who called the red shirts terrorists and call for their physical anhilation are best described as cretins

Edit: Typo

So what do you call people who think it's a good idea to bring 1 million glass bottles to BKK with the intent of filling them up with petrol and for those that try and stop them "will disappear from this world"? hmmm? What would you call people who steal grenade launchers and assault rifles from the military? What would you call these people in your own country? Are you for real?!

Filling the bottle with what ? Sarsi or red bull ? Its hot you know .

Seriously because a few idiots , Arisman , Sae Daeng are asking to burn

Bangkok or sack shopping malls does not mean the immense majority of red

will do it . Bangkok is not on fire , shopping malls are not sacked .

As for stealing weapons of war , perhaps those were abandoned by soldiers

how can they steal those tell me ? And i heard that weapons were returned

to the army or police .

Dont oversimplify

How does one respond to people who cannot accept facts and purposely wants to remain ignorant to them?

[earthpig]

These were taken on the 2nd or 3rd gathering here of the multi-colored shirts whose numbers have grown significantly in their rallies while the red mobs numbers have gone down considerably. Anyone who denies these facts are delusional.

this from yesterday's telegraph article cited above

"The protesters' ranks were still swelling daily, as new recruits streamed in from the countryside..."

again, those who actually visit Ratchaprasong last night know the truth.

jcbangkok is exposed as the governent propagandist that he is.

[jdinasia]

JD I have been there and seen it with my own eyes it is huge. I am not a red supporter but when you see the size of this protest you will be amazed. Why dont you go and look for yourself?

PLEASE SHOW US YOUR PICTURES

I have been there a number of times with the last being the day before the grenade attacks. Each time the one thing that shocks me is how small the red shirt group is compared to the photos and news reports. It is easy to make groups look bigger in the media. In fact when you go to the red site you see they have numerous projectors set up going back from the stage but none of them are being used because the people don't go that far back.

The below were taken in the days following the group all moving to their current location. The first picture looks like a rather large crowd taken from the first sky bridge but the second is from the next sky bridge and you can see they only reach to the first sky bridge even though they are very spread out.

Point is, this was pretty much at the peak of their numbers there for day time crowds.

This one is looking the other way from the bridge. As you can see they have certainly claimed a lot of area with vehicles and such but the number of folks is not that great, even at the peak of their numbers though I will admit the numbers previously grew at night.

these pictures prove my point. the numbers were small when they were taken.

last night these same streets were packed with humanity.

Red Tide rising.

Evidence for your claims? None

Statements from the Red Leadership --- opposite of your claims

Statements from the world press? Opposite of your claims.

Statements from people that I believe? Opposite of your claims.

[jcbangkok]

JD I have been there and seen it with my own eyes it is huge. I am not a red supporter but when you see the size of this protest you will be amazed. Why dont you go and look for yourself?

PLEASE SHOW US YOUR PICTURES

I have been there a number of times with the last being the day before the grenade attacks. Each time the one thing that shocks me is how small the red shirt group is compared to the photos and news reports. It is easy to make groups look bigger in the media. In fact when you go to the red site you see they have numerous projectors set up going back from the stage but none of them are being used because the people don't go that far back.

The below were taken in the days following the group all moving to their current location. The first picture looks like a rather large crowd taken from the first sky bridge but the second is from the next sky bridge and you can see they only reach to the first sky bridge even though they are very spread out.

Point is, this was pretty much at the peak of their numbers there for day time crowds.

This one is looking the other way from the bridge. As you can see they have certainly claimed a lot of area with vehicles and such but the number of folks is not that great, even at the peak of their numbers though I will admit the numbers previously grew at night.

these pictures prove my point. the numbers were small when they were taken.

last night these same streets were packed with humanity.

Red Tide rising.

I honestly don't mean this as an insult but are you okay? Has the stress of the situation got to you that maybe you should seek medical help? Did you read what you wrote? You are saying pictures from a few weeks ago prove your point about last night? The entire point is nobody believes your claims of last night and ALL the facts and reports say the opposite (including those of the red leaders). PLEASE SHOW US YOU PICTURES OR LINK TO VIDEO.

[pornsasi]

The Rajaprarop from Petchburi to Indra hotel became one large parking lot.

But one thing is funny about the re-enforcements - if this is a peasant movement asking for more just wealth distribution, why are there many higher class cars among those that are coming protesting, like Mercedes Benz, BMW? You surely aren't a poor farmer if you can afford one of them...

Sorry for the long post. Now let me get my fireman's suit to prepare for all your flaming.

-------

So, you have some Mercedes cars and BM's parked by people joining .... can believe that, every mafia boss drives them and since this is the biggest gathering of criminals of all times, I'm not surprised they are there to see if they can make some money ... you must be a Thai and of course a red

I am not a Thai and I am not red. Said that I am surely not yellow either. I just reported the situation from this area as it looks like in the nights. As I went to the balcony to see a procession of the honk maniacs outside last night I spotted quite a high number of higher class sedans among the more typical pickups and motorbikes and thought I'd share that as it struck me as strange given what we were told that his rally was about.

This movement is a social revolt against an established order , basically a way for people to say that they are fed up with the establishment and want to be heard . I think K Anand said something similar . It cuts across social classes it would seem from what i hear . It is not a political movement per se , the reds have not voiced anything resembling a political platform . Just a way for people to say a change is needed , we have had enough and meanwhile lets party and kermess in the streets , much like May 68 in France . Of course some leaders with a personal agenda on their own , are taking advantage of it . I think repression by force would be a disaster for Thailand . Just a personal opinion however

[GungaDin]

Excuse me, I have just risen......

Did the PM address the nation at 0900 or not?

Point me to his address if he did.

Thank you

http://twitter.com/terryfrd

http://twitter.com/tulsathit

Thanks FD.

[pimay11]

JD I have been there and seen it with my own eyes it is huge. I am not a red supporter but when you see the size of this protest you will be amazed. Why dont you go and look for yourself?

PLEASE SHOW US YOUR PICTURES

I have been there a number of times with the last being the day before the grenade attacks. Each time the one thing that shocks me is how small the red shirt group is compared to the photos and news reports. It is easy to make groups look bigger in the media. In fact when you go to the red site you see they have numerous projectors set up going back from the stage but none of them are being used because the people don't go that far back.

The below were taken in the days following the group all moving to their current location. The first picture looks like a rather large crowd taken from the first sky bridge but the second is from the next sky bridge and you can see they only reach to the first sky bridge even though they are very spread out.

Point is, this was pretty much at the peak of their numbers there for day time crowds.

This one is looking the other way from the bridge. As you can see they have certainly claimed a lot of area with vehicles and such but the number of folks is not that great, even at the peak of their numbers though I will admit the numbers previously grew at night.

these pictures prove my point. the numbers were small when they were taken.

last night these same streets were packed with humanity.

Red Tide rising.

I honestly don't mean this as an insult but are you okay? Has the stress of the situation got to you that maybe you should seek medical help? Did you read what you wrote? You are saying pictures from a few weeks ago prove your point about last night? The entire point is nobody believes your claims of last night and ALL the facts and reports say the opposite (including those of the red leaders). PLEASE SHOW US YOU PICTURES OR LINK TO VIDEO.

jcbangkok I do believe earthpig is just trying to push everyone's button. We all know what he is posting is nonsense.

[atyclb]

Discussion and opinions are important .

our views and insights , shared, give us scope.

its not really Farangs' problems but some of of live here and work or do business or whatever.. so we are concerned.

Sure it is "farangs" problems. Political unrest has led to Patpong venue closure, limited alcohol served in Nana area, who knows, next will be closure of Nana, Cowboy, or perhaps even the holy city "Pattaya"

[pornsasi]

So what do you call people who think it's a good idea to bring 1 million glass bottles to BKK with the intent of filling them up with petrol and for those that try and stop them "will disappear from this world"? hmmm? What would you call people who steal grenade launchers and assault rifles from the military? What would you call these people in your own country? Are you for real?!

Filling the bottle with what ? Sarsi or red bull ? Its hot you know .

Seriously because a few idiots , Arisman , Sae Daeng are asking to burn

Bangkok or sack shopping malls does not mean the immense majority of red

will do it . Bangkok is not on fire , shopping malls are not sacked .

As for stealing weapons of war , perhaps those were abandoned by soldiers

how can they steal those tell me ? And i heard that weapons were returned

to the army or police .

Dont oversimplify

How does one respond to people who cannot accept facts and purposely wants to remain ignorant to them?

I dont pretend to convince you , but the fact are exactly as i said .

Go in the street and ask the average red shirt if he or she has plan

to burn BKK or sack shopping malls .

Edited April 25, 2010 by pornsasi

[Canuk]

A disappointing but unsurprising response from the biggest stubborn mule PM the world has ever seen.

Nope, that would be the other guy, Thaksin.

The PM has Thai blood on his hands, looks like he is prepared for more. He is awaiting further instructions from the elite. The elite are strategizing the use

of their paid Yellow shirts. My guess to cause enough "News media" sentiment to send in a final assault. The Red Shirts got guts. I support them. They are asking for "Freedom of speach", freedom of press/TV, some social justice. The things the rest of us just take for granted.....this is not 1945 or 1955 or 1965, this is 2010 the Internet and the world is watching, and many are aware exactly who the unseen unheard quite players are. Want more read "The Economist" Dec 2008.

[kissdani]

Again --- claims of massive increase in numbers of the reds are 100% NOT backed up with any evidence. Just the statements from people that support the red cause (return of Thaksin?)

The numbers aren't supported by pictures or even by the claims of the reds ... just by some reds on this forum.

http://58.97.5.29/court.html

"¢ÍÍÀÑÂ㹤ÇÒÁäÁèÊдǡ

àÇçºä«µì·Õè·èÒ¹µéͧ¡ÒÃà¢éÒªÁä´é¶Ù¡ÃЧѺ¡ÒÃà¼Âá¾ÃèµÒÁ¤ÓÊÑ觨ҡ¡ÃзÃǧ෤â¹âÅÂÕÊÒÃ

ʹà·ÈáÅСÒÃÊ×èÍÊÒÃ"

Who cares? Fact is there is a massive media censorship and manipulation going on. Do you care?

Lot of reports from the international media get quickly dismissed at this board. Many TVF members choose to believe only the things what fits their system of beliefs.

[jdinasia]

From the newsfeed

THE NATION: 5. As for Rajprasong, pressure will be kept up to keep the crowd shrinking in numbers.

certainly doesn't match (unsupported) claims made by a couple of red members here

[Pakboong]

....a representative democracy relies on the ability of a "tribe" of representatives to organize and deal with the problems of an entire nation. The instincts that these representatives are using to deal with national problems have been highly developed in the long course of human evolution on a small tribal scale, and this is the source of both their usefulness and their disutility. Indeed, much of the political tension in modern societies is the conflict between the desire to organize a nation-state using the tribal values of egalitarianism and unity and the simple fact that large societies are unavoidably impersonal and sometimes not amenable to small-society rules.

The above was taken from wiki but there are many sources of such info. The term: disutility as indicated above fits this situation to a T.

The Chinese leaders of the various groups have no tribal connection to the Thai problem and never will. Consequently, it cannot be resolved using traditional methods.

[jcbangkok]

Discussion and opinions are important .

our views and insights , shared, give us scope.

its not really Farangs' problems but some of of live here and work or do business or whatever.. so we are concerned.

Sure it is "farangs" problems. Political unrest has led to Patpong venue closure, limited alcohol served in Nana area, who knows, next will be closure of Nana, Cowboy, or perhaps even the holy city "Pattaya"

Are they really limiting alcohol at nana??

And agree it is a problem for us who are here. The Thai people encourage us to be here and as tourists they have a responsibility to protect our interests too. Yes, it is not our really our business regarding politics but having thugs and terrorists take over tourist areas certainly is a concern we can and should voice our opinions about.

[mitrapaap]

Abhisit was legally elected under Thai law, so why should he dissolve the house just to please a minority of the population. The Reds are mercenaries and this is nothing to do with democracy, but all to do with Thaksin.

Cheers, Rick

The Thai constitution and Abhisit's government were created by anti-democratic coup plotters.

And that consitution was, for the first time in Thai history, voted for by the people. I'm sure the reds voted NO, but they were outnumbered. And the longer that red nonsense continues, the more they loose supporters, because the first to suffer if the country goes down are the poor, means the reds themselves. Usually Taxi drivers are pro Taksin. How many Taxis do you see with red flags or red stickers on them? Much less than we would usually expect. Today is the first day my neighbour starts working again, instead of going to collect money at Rajprasong. The reds start to loose the battle and Abhisit and the army have done well, waiting.

[landofthefree]

These were taken on the 2nd or 3rd gathering here of the multi-colored shirts whose numbers have grown significantly in their rallies while the red mobs numbers have gone down considerably. Anyone who denies these facts are delusional.

this from yesterday's telegraph article cited above

"The protesters' ranks were still swelling daily, as new recruits streamed in from the countryside..."

again, those who actually visit Ratchaprasong last night know the truth.

jcbangkok is exposed as the governent propagandist that he is.

This is becoming a yes it is no it isn't argument. On the one side we have people who have been there, seen it for themselves and know the truth, on the other side we have people who live hundreds of miles from Bangkok who claim that what we have seen isn't true because we don't have pictures of it. Obviously JC's logic is that something isnt true if it has not been photographed. When i walked through the area I did not have a camera with me. Even if I had had a camera with me I would not have felt comfortable taking pictures in this sort of atmosphere. The facts remain the same that this demonstration is huge and has been going on for weeks. There are less people around in the day but at night time the numbers are enormous.

[animatic]

animatic or lannarebirth, please would you be so kind as to educate me!

why do the reds not want to wait for scheduled election date do you think?

It cant be down to an army reshuffle can it?

personally, although I hope the reds win the election out of principle.. even though I prefer Mr A... I too wish the reds would go home, and do whatever they do until its time for polls..

thank you.. if you have the time or inclination...

IMO it is a combination of the military reshuffle and succession issues. The military has long had it's nose in various projects in the provinces but as long as their raison d' etre lived they could give the illusion of cohesiveness. If Thaksin were present here during a succession I think he could scoop up alot of military, who are not loyal to him per se but looking to get paid. These would form the backbone of his "muscle" as he moves Thailand to a more authoritarian government. Abhisit IMO is likely to reshuffle in a way where "professional soldiers" are promoted that are not only loyal to ^^^ but also understand they are servants of the people and not their masters. It's a big f'ing mess and it's baby steps forward and possibly giant leaps backward.

This is what I'm talking about:

"We are an army for the nation, for the monarchy and for the people. We will do our job without taking sides. We will follow government policy," Anupong said.

vs. this:

"Thaksin appoints brother Army Chief"

"Thaksin appoints brother in law Police Chief"

"Thaksin brother in law to replace samak as PM"

Yes I agree with lannarebirth, this is the crux of the biscuit.

Endless nepotism and purchased loyalties to create iron fist control

or,

A professional leaning army looking towards the inevitable succession,

and it's attendant uncertainties, since it is several generations since this occured.

Secondarily this iron fisted control is the key to the kingdom's riches.

And the key to long lasting power....

If you control the army you control how much anyone dares dispute you,

if you stifle the press as Thaksin CLEARLY did in the past,

then you limit people even KNOWING of issue to dispute.

One thing is never in dispute, Thaksin is a control freak,

he brooks no dissenting voices even in his cabinets.

He has a selfmade man CEO mentality of I am right

'my way or the highway', and this is reflected in his past governance style,

and in the Red Shirts negotiating style too. It is very UN-Thai too.

Thais like reaching consensus and meeting in the middle.

Thaksin is the complete opposite the middle is where he SAYS itis.

I would have no problem with an red election win IF..

they vote in MPs that :

a ) Were working for the people ALL of the people

b ) Were actually competent as legislators

c ) Were not trying top re-write the constitution to give a pass

to Thaksin and his cronies and their graft strategies.

And the wrong crew of incompetents trying to rig the system for Thaksin

would cause PAD to come out 10 x as militant as before.

Because they already know life under Thaksin's thumb would be intolerable.

Control of the Army list = power during the succesion

Power during the succession = ability to install your control mechanisms (influence)

Installing your own control mechanisms = profits without accountability for decades.

So controlling this years budget and the army list are top priority for Thaksin.

Budget means he can distribute patronage in the feudal style

Army control is pure power, ongoing.

Edited April 25, 2010 by animatic

[jcbangkok]

Again --- claims of massive increase in numbers of the reds are 100% NOT backed up with any evidence. Just the statements from people that support the red cause (return of Thaksin?)

The numbers aren't supported by pictures or even by the claims of the reds ... just by some reds on this forum.

http://58.97.5.29/court.html

"¢ÍÍÀÑÂ㹤ÇÒÁäÁèÊдǡ

àÇçºä«µì·Õè·èÒ¹µéͧ¡ÒÃà¢éÒªÁä´é¶Ù¡ÃЧѺ¡ÒÃà¼Âá¾ÃèµÒÁ¤ÓÊÑ觨ҡ¡ÃзÃǧ෤â¹âÅÂÕÊÒÃ

ʹà·ÈáÅСÒÃÊ×èÍÊÒÃ"

Who cares? Fact is there is a massive media censorship and manipulation going on. Do you care?

Lot of reports from the international media get quickly dismissed at this board. Many TVF members choose to believe only the things what fits their system of beliefs.

Dude, what is so important for you to see on this anonymous site? According to the reds they represent the poor of the country. They cannot afford computers or internet access. So, this is a moot point here especially since we all know Thailand has always censored things ... have you ever been to a movie here?

[jdinasia]

Again --- claims of massive increase in numbers of the reds are 100% NOT backed up with any evidence. Just the statements from people that support the red cause (return of Thaksin?)

The numbers aren't supported by pictures or even by the claims of the reds ... just by some reds on this forum.

http://58.97.5.29/court.html

"¢ÍÍÀÑÂ㹤ÇÒÁäÁèÊдǡ

àÇçºä«µì·Õè·èÒ¹µéͧ¡ÒÃà¢éÒªÁä´é¶Ù¡ÃЧѺ¡ÒÃà¼Âá¾ÃèµÒÁ¤ÓÊÑ觨ҡ¡ÃзÃǧ෤â¹âÅÂÕÊÒÃ

ʹà·ÈáÅСÒÃÊ×èÍÊÒÃ"

Who cares? Fact is there is a massive media censorship and manipulation going on. Do you care?

Lot of reports from the international media get quickly dismissed at this board. Many TVF members choose to believe only the things what fits their system of beliefs.

Your suggestion that now the lack of supporting documentation is about censorship is rather mind-boggling. The international press isn't being censored. What is being censored is illegal propoganda feeding an illegal insurrection. People TV etc could probably have gotten away with REPORTING on the events at the illegal red rally ... but when they started adding content to the screen telling people what to do they became a participant and not the press.

Amazingly the reds on this board never do speak out to condemn the violent rhetoric coming from the red stages .....

[SpoliaOpima]

These were taken on the 2nd or 3rd gathering here of the multi-colored shirts whose numbers have grown significantly in their rallies while the red mobs numbers have gone down considerably. Anyone who denies these facts are delusional.

this from yesterday's telegraph article cited above

"The protesters' ranks were still swelling daily, as new recruits streamed in from the countryside..."

again, those who actually visit Ratchaprasong last night know the truth.

jcbangkok is exposed as the governent propagandist that he is.

Not exactly, sounds more like you believe what the Reds are saying.

I live inside the Red encampment. I pass through their tire-and-bamboo barriers at least twice a day, coming and going from home. I sleep one block away from the main stage at Rajprasong.

The numbers have been decreasing every day, just as reported by every Thai TV news channel or newspaper not owned by Thaksin or PT. During the day there are not even a thousand. The peak numbers occur nightly between 11pm and 3am when hundreds of Bangkok residents who support the Reds, come in on a part-time basis. A Thai friend who is reporting for the international press every night there has spoken to quite a number who are 'rented' from the Klong Toey slums.

There is nowhere near as many Reds in the area as there were 10 days ago, maybe 10% as many. No evidence of people coming from the provinces anymore in any numbers, rather the opposite, many fleeing back to the countryside as it becomes more clear that the Red leaders have no plan forward that won't involve violence.

[Skywalker69]

A disappointing but unsurprising response from the biggest stubborn mule PM the world has ever seen.

It is kind of hard to negotiate with terrorists. Not a good precedent really.

Yes. Forget negotiating with the redshirts.. by the way, what is the sense of urgency to dissolve Parliament in 3 months instead of 6? Are they afraid of Thaksin dying of cancer? Thaksin must be on his death bed.

Anyone can explain why the red shirts can't negotiate six months and are demanding 3? I mean, they have been protesting and have already wasted one month!

Thaksin want to come back ASAP, he is loosing big money every day!

[pornsasi]

Again --- claims of massive increase in numbers of the reds are 100% NOT backed up with any evidence. Just the statements from people that support the red cause (return of Thaksin?)

The numbers aren't supported by pictures or even by the claims of the reds ... just by some reds on this forum.

http://58.97.5.29/court.html

"¢ÍÍÀÑÂ㹤ÇÒÁäÁèÊдǡ

àÇçºä«µì·Õè·èÒ¹µéͧ¡ÒÃà¢éÒªÁä´é¶Ù¡ÃЧѺ¡ÒÃà¼Âá¾ÃèµÒÁ¤ÓÊÑ觨ҡ¡ÃзÃǧ෤â¹âÅÂÕÊÒÃ

ʹà·ÈáÅСÒÃÊ×èÍÊÒÃ"

Who cares? Fact is there is a massive media censorship and manipulation going on. Do you care?

Lot of reports from the international media get quickly dismissed at this board. Many TVF members choose to believe only the things what fits their system of beliefs.

When a governement in any democratic country start to block medias (TV , radios, papers) and internet sites it usualy signals the beginning of the end for that government

[pimay11]

The Rajaprarop from Petchburi to Indra hotel became one large parking lot.

But one thing is funny about the re-enforcements - if this is a peasant movement asking for more just wealth distribution, why are there many higher class cars among those that are coming protesting, like Mercedes Benz, BMW? You surely aren't a poor farmer if you can afford one of them...

Sorry for the long post. Now let me get my fireman's suit to prepare for all your flaming.

-------

So, you have some Mercedes cars and BM's parked by people joining .... can believe that, every mafia boss drives them and since this is the biggest gathering of criminals of all times, I'm not surprised they are there to see if they can make some money ... you must be a Thai and of course a red

I am not a Thai and I am not red. Said that I am surely not yellow either. I just reported the situation from this area as it looks like in the nights. As I went to the balcony to see a procession of the honk maniacs outside last night I spotted quite a high number of higher class sedans among the more typical pickups and motorbikes and thought I'd share that as it struck me as strange given what we were told that his rally was about.

This movement is a social revolt against an established order , basically a way for people to say that they are fed up with the establishment and want to be heard . I think K Anand said something similar . It cuts across social classes it would seem from what i hear . It is not a political movement per se , the reds have not voiced anything resembling a political platform . Just a way for people to say a change is needed , we have had enough and meanwhile lets party and kermess in the streets , much like May 68 in France . Of course some leaders with a personal agenda on their own , are taking advantage of it . I think repression by force would be a disaster for Thailand . Just a personal opinion however

I have to disagree with your personal opinion but we can agree to disagree. This rally started immediately after the courts ruled to sieze Mr. T's billions. The reds demands were to dissolve the lower house immediately and call for new elections. The PM tried to negotiate a settlement and offered an election of one year earlier than scheduled. If the reds adgenda was as you say they would have at least offered to consider this and get back with the PM. But surely you can see this was not their mandate. Now that things have gotten out of hand they have tried to convince the mob and everyone else it is a social revolt. They are in way over their heads and they know it. All the leaders stand to spend a lot of years in the Bangkok Hilton. Now they say they will fight to the death. I suppose to them death is a better option than going to prison. Consider this. Why would anyone be willing to die because an election cannot be held in 60 days or 90 days? They are so transparent.

[jcbangkok]

These were taken on the 2nd or 3rd gathering here of the multi-colored shirts whose numbers have grown significantly in their rallies while the red mobs numbers have gone down considerably. Anyone who denies these facts are delusional.

this from yesterday's telegraph article cited above

"The protesters' ranks were still swelling daily, as new recruits streamed in from the countryside..."

again, those who actually visit Ratchaprasong last night know the truth.

jcbangkok is exposed as the governent propagandist that he is.

This is becoming a yes it is no it isn't argument. On the one side we have people who have been there, seen it for themselves and know the truth, on the other side we have people who live hundreds of miles from Bangkok who claim that what we have seen isn't true because we don't have pictures of it. Obviously JC's logic is that something isnt true if it has not been photographed. When i walked through the area I did not have a camera with me. Even if I had had a camera with me I would not have felt comfortable taking pictures in this sort of atmosphere. The facts remain the same that this demonstration is huge and has been going on for weeks. There are less people around in the day but at night time the numbers are enormous.

hmmm, you go to the red shirt area but you claim you don't support them. You go to an area that is the source of International head lines but don't bring a camera or even have one on your phone and neither do any of the people you are with. Yet, you also clearly have a desire to be part of the discussions and tell your story of massive enormous and so on support but never thought you might want to document it to share with others since you clearly like sharing with others.

Alls sounds a little fishy to me.

[Neurath]

I am not a big fan of the Telegraph Newspaper but I do flick through various publications when on Yahoo and wanting a broader look at the news. Read an interesting article yesterday. May not be 100% factual but it does go to show how others view this matter. In many ways it made scary reading for the future of Thailand as things stand at present.

Might be worth a look.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/...Red-Shirts.html

Thanks for the link. A very interesting article from a quality British newspaper (which incidentaly is politicaly very right wing.) All Thai visa posters should read this uncensored report it may make you think again.

Yup, you would expect the article to be on the incumbent's side - this newspaper would be the breakfast read of his former classmate, Boris Johnson, the conservative party Mayor of London, for example and indeed Eton School, that great bastion of the British establishment, in general!

I have endeavoured to neutrally make this point for a while now that world media does not see things quite the same way the government here wants - just yesterday, there was another BBC report - see live Saturday for the link posted by Maestro late last night - in which the interview with a falang Bkk resident concluded with her stating that she never felt threatened by the Reds as she walked amongst them, this after the grenade incident.

Don't jump on me for posting this - but how this crisis is being perceived on the international stage is hugely important in determining what happens when and how. I conjecture again that the protestors are winning this media battle, the international one and indeed are paying much attention to it. Rightly or wrongly and I suggest Thaksin's hand here, they know that they can at least have a level playing field and find sympathatic ears, unlike here in LOS, given the tendency of all Thai governments both now and in the past, particularly under Thaksin himself, to control and manipulate the media in-country.

The question might well be does Abhsist care? One can only speculate, but one might suggest that somebody born in the UK and educated in the UK is quite internationally media aware and so does see the importance of what they write...and is perhaps feeling a little frustrated that the government's message that these Reds are a bunch of "terrorists" is not getting across?

You can safely bet that the intelligence being gathered from Methee is being passed immediately to 'security representatives' in the Embassies here.

Whatever color shirt they're wearing it cannot be denied that there are 'terrorists' afoot, that they are armed and that they're directly responsible for many deaths.

Should it be found that these 'terrorists' have been in continual close contact with the Red leadership then let the classification fall where it may.

[rametindallas]

I guess after Abhisit named Chavalit with the head of the army sat next to him, this will come to a head quickly one way or another

Ball's book on black shirts and their links to Thai politics is recommended

Thanks for the recommendation Hammered. Haven't read this. Only one problem - costs US$ 93.00 used from Amazon!!!

The 'other' English language daily has an article with many quotes from Ball's books.

[jdinasia]

Again --- claims of massive increase in numbers of the reds are 100% NOT backed up with any evidence. Just the statements from people that support the red cause (return of Thaksin?)

The numbers aren't supported by pictures or even by the claims of the reds ... just by some reds on this forum.

http://58.97.5.29/court.html

"¢ÍÍÀÑÂ㹤ÇÒÁäÁèÊдǡ

àÇçºä«µì·Õè·èÒ¹µéͧ¡ÒÃà¢éÒªÁä´é¶Ù¡ÃЧѺ¡ÒÃà¼Âá¾ÃèµÒÁ¤ÓÊÑ觨ҡ¡ÃзÃǧ෤â¹âÅÂÕÊÒÃ

ʹà·ÈáÅСÒÃÊ×èÍÊÒÃ"

Who cares? Fact is there is a massive media censorship and manipulation going on. Do you care?

Lot of reports from the international media get quickly dismissed at this board. Many TVF members choose to believe only the things what fits their system of beliefs.

When a governement in any democratic country start to block medias (TV , radios, papers) and internet sites it usualy signals the beginning of the end for that government

Please ... share with the rest of us where your "beginning of the end" fact comes from? Many countries limit access on some level to objectionable material.