Chavalit Slams Thai Govt For 'Cold-Blooded Murder'

[quiksilva]

We have no reliable information about this conflict here in Thailand...nothing but slanted opinions, outright lies and propaganda to read...I've tried to put below what I know as fact and some of the things that I believe.

The reds have a manifesto, it's pretty clear what they want..it's expressed simply and it seems perfectly reasonable...they want a vote and some representation in government...not too much to ask for in my opinion...but some folk on here who claim to have some sort of divine insider knowledge...claiming that they somehow know that the reds want all sorts of other things as well, things that are desperately unpopular, such as the nonsense about weakening of the monarchy....it seems to me that the claimers of the divine inside knowledge are simply parroting yellow shirt, Democrat lies...and it's getting really tedious. The other tedious divine knowledge is all the guff about Thaksin....you farangs out there do not know anything at all about Thaksin's role, you have no privileged information and again are just parroting yellow shirt lies....

Here is what I know and don't know:

I don't know whether Abhisit is corrupt...pretty much every other politician seems to be...and he was deputy chairman of the democrats when a huge illegal donation was made to them...what is the saying about smoke and fire?

I do know Abhisit is incompetent and in my opinion he has blood on his hands from the April 10th massacre...

I also know that Abhisit tells lies...he said on April 10th that the troops had no live ammo (and then the next day the army asked for 6000 live rounds back)....for god's sake the man can't even lie competently....lying is essential in politics and Abhisit should resign on the grounds of total incompetence...

I don't know who the men in black are...and I don't believe that anyone else on this board knows either, nor do they know what the agenda of the men in black is...

I don't know who put up the posters on Silom calling for Thaksin as president....whoever did it knew that this would be desperately unpopular with the masses and would therefore discredit the reds...thus I think it was done by Yellow shirts or government (particualrly as Silom was crawling with army when the posters were put up)...

You stated you upset with the impartiality shown here on TV and claim that you would post facts, when all you have done is post your own opinions which clearly show your bias for the red anti-government cause.

Denying Thaksin's involvement is comedy gold. Saying they want representation in government is also bloody foolish, most of the reds voted for PT who are the opposition party who the last I checked are still members of parliament.

Seh Daeng announced the formation of the UDD Troops also known as the "Black Army" back in February (I think it was February 5th 2010). The figures in Black were clearly seen wearing red shirt bandanas, and other insignia linking them to the red shirts. (There's a great post on this topic in the khmer 440 forums)

The rest of your biased speculation is not worth responding to

[Publicus]

It's getting to the stage that reading let alone posting on this site is a waste of time due to all the BS that is appearing daily, however there is still a bit of worthwhile news here and there and I will have one more go at a post.

For those of you who insist that parliament must be dissolved and elections held please think for a bit.

In the climate of fear, intimidation and yes terrorism that exists with the red machine in action there can never be a free and fair election. Candidates unsuitable to the reds would be prevented from campaigning and voters would be intimidated, there would be no need for paying voters or policies which is probably why PTP (the reds party) don't have any. The reds have shown repeatedly that they have no consideration for anyone or anything but themselves and their own goals and there is no doubt they would influence an election in any way they could even if it meant killing people.

The reds have built up a machine by recruiting thugs, crims, and yes the mafia, whether these people are paid or are just in it for what they can get for themselves the fact is they are there and hay a rifle or bag of grenades as a bonus at the end would be very useful for their normal activities.

Before there can be a fair democratic election this red machine must be dismantled and most people will know (certainly the PM does) that any machine can't be taken to bits from the inside first you must remove the "nuts" from around the outside. It would appear that this process has now started, a little late perhaps but I can't say that as I don't have the information the PM and his advisors have and I would hazard a guess that no one else on this site has that information either.

When the outside bits have all or mostly been removed the guts of the machine will be left confined behind their barricade and granny and grandchild human shields. By this time most of the outside intimidation will have been removed and people will be free to voice their opposition to a movement that is surely destroying this country.

Think how much money and effort is and has been expended on combating the reds then think what good for the country and the people could have been achieved if that money and effort had not been tied up and yes wasted.

More and more people are seeing this and are even now 'threats not withstanding' are coming out against what the reds are doing and surely this number will continue to increase.

This is absolutely correct - further, anytime during 2010 would be the worst time to have a snap election. Abhisit has stated his willingness to have an election in nine months time which still would be too soon. This mentality that a mob, whether at airports or in the center of Bangkok can change governments by extra-parliamentary means has to be squelched now.

Abhisit again today made clear he's not interested in being PM for life and that he's willing to face the electorate, but to face the electorate under more calm and rational conditions than exist presently. We need time to step back and away from the present chaos and anarchy or a national election will look like the circumstances we've had in Bangkok the past month.

Abhisit is setting the example of calm and the Redshirsts just can't stand it because the PM is wearing them down as we see in the Reds shifting of sites and strategies. The Reds are not the spent force some farang months ago thought they were, consequently they need to be brought into the mainstream which takes time. The Redshirts of the present moment would contribute nothing to a snap election campaign. Let the Redshirts learn they won't be able to do to an election campaign that which they're doing to the country since last month in particular.

[kerm99]

It's getting to the stage that reading let alone posting on this site is a waste of time due to all the BS that is appearing daily, however there is still a bit of worthwhile news here and there and I will have one more go at a post.

For those of you who insist that parliament must be dissolved and elections held please think for a bit.

In the climate of fear, intimidation and yes terrorism that exists with the red machine in action there can never be a free and fair election. Candidates unsuitable to the reds would be prevented from campaigning and voters would be intimidated, there would be no need for paying voters or policies which is probably why PTP (the reds party) don't have any. The reds have shown repeatedly that they have no consideration for anyone or anything but themselves and their own goals and there is no doubt they would influence an election in any way they could even if it meant killing people.

The reds have built up a machine by recruiting thugs, crims, and yes the mafia, whether these people are paid or are just in it for what they can get for themselves the fact is they are there and hay a rifle or bag of grenades as a bonus at the end would be very useful for their normal activities.

Before there can be a fair democratic election this red machine must be dismantled and most people will know (certainly the PM does) that any machine can't be taken to bits from the inside first you must remove the "nuts" from around the outside. It would appear that this process has now started, a little late perhaps but I can't say that as I don't have the information the PM and his advisors have and I would hazard a guess that no one else on this site has that information either.

When the outside bits have all or mostly been removed the guts of the machine will be left confined behind their barricade and granny and grandchild human shields. By this time most of the outside intimidation will have been removed and people will be free to voice their opposition to a movement that is surely destroying this country.

Think how much money and effort is and has been expended on combating the reds then think what good for the country and the people could have been achieved if that money and effort had not been tied up and yes wasted.

More and more people are seeing this and are even now 'threats not withstanding' are coming out against what the reds are doing and surely this number will continue to increase.

This is absolutely correct - further, anytime during 2010 would be the worst time to have a snap election. Abhisit has stated his willingness to have an election in nine months time which still would be too soon. This mentality that a mob, whether at airports or in the center of Bangkok can change governments by extra-parliamentary means has to be squelched now.

Abhisit again today made clear he's not interested in being PM for life and that he's willing to face the electorate, but to face the electorate under more calm and rational conditions than exist presently. We need time to step back and away from the present chaos and anarchy or a national election will look like the circumstances we've had in Bangkok the past month.

Abhisit is setting the example of calm and the Redshirsts just can't stand it because the PM is wearing them down as we see in the Reds shifting of sites and strategies. The Reds are not the spent force some farang months ago thought they were, consequently they need to be brought into the mainstream which takes time. The Redshirts of the present moment would contribute nothing to a snap election campaign. Let the Redshirts learn they won't be able to do to an election campaign that which they're doing to the country since last month in particular.

At this point, an election would be better than nothing. I am so tired of the inaction of the government and of Abhisit. Just deal with it!!!!!!!!!!

Two options:

1 - Dissolve the house and have an election

2 - Remove the red shirt. I don't want to see violence, but the criminals cannot stay

Kerm

[KireB]

The reds have a manifesto, it's pretty clear what they want..it's expressed simply and it seems perfectly reasonable...they want a vote and some representation in government...not too much to ask for in my opinion...

They had a huge representation in government, twice, till they got booted out. For fraud that is!

The reds and their political backers (PT, Shinawatras) will have to wait till the next elections! Nothing unfair about this! Thats democracy!

They will probably win the next election, so whats the rush. If they play it fair and square they shouldnt have to worry.

[Harry2]

The rhetorical escalation is another alarming event. These are the people who would have to cut a compromise, but each day they move further away from each other. We are gradually coming to the point where the only 'solution' is civil war. Once that begins, how can it end? Think of the effect on Thai society & the economy of large parts of Thailand & Bangkok becoming like the far South is at present.

[misterjag]

If Abhisit is confident that his platform and job performance have widespread appeal, then he shouldn't fear moving an election forward. The election would act as a referendum reaffirming the current government's legitimacy.

[GarryP]

Head of the Army - Romklao - Chawalit - bombing his own troops. Ring any bells?

[nickupton]

We have no reliable information about this conflict here in Thailand...nothing but slanted opinions, outright lies and propaganda to read...I've tried to put below what I know as fact and some of the things that I believe.

The reds have a manifesto, it's pretty clear what they want..it's expressed simply and it seems perfectly reasonable...they want a vote and some representation in government...not too much to ask for in my opinion...but some folk on here who claim to have some sort of divine insider knowledge...claiming that they somehow know that the reds want all sorts of other things as well, things that are desperately unpopular, such as the nonsense about weakening of the monarchy....it seems to me that the claimers of the divine inside knowledge are simply parroting yellow shirt, Democrat lies...and it's getting really tedious. The other tedious divine knowledge is all the guff about Thaksin....you farangs out there do not know anything at all about Thaksin's role, you have no privileged information and again are just parroting yellow shirt lies....

Here is what I know and don't know:

I don't know whether Abhisit is corrupt...pretty much every other politician seems to be...and he was deputy chairman of the democrats when a huge illegal donation was made to them...what is the saying about smoke and fire?

I do know Abhisit is incompetent and in my opinion he has blood on his hands from the April 10th massacre...

I also know that Abhisit tells lies...he said on April 10th that the troops had no live ammo (and then the next day the army asked for 6000 live rounds back)....for god's sake the man can't even lie competently....lying is essential in politics and Abhisit should resign on the grounds of total incompetence...

I don't know who the men in black are...and I don't believe that anyone else on this board knows either, nor do they know what the agenda of the men in black is...

I don't know who put up the posters on Silom calling for Thaksin as president....whoever did it knew that this would be desperately unpopular with the masses and would therefore discredit the reds...thus I think it was done by Yellow shirts or government (particualrly as Silom was crawling with army when the posters were put up)...

Abhisit is probably corrupt, I agree. Just less so than most others.

Abhisit does seem to be handling this situation pretty incompetently. Blood on his hands?????? I think probably not, just a total balls up and playing into the hands of what the red leaders wanted.

Abhisit tells lies.......well, show me someone that doesn't. His lies seem smaller than redshirt lies and at least he is honest enough to correct them - but yes, there are lies.

The men in black are Seh Daeng's army. Everyone knows that, he told us. Photographic and video evidence tells us. The noodle lady told me, even the soi dogs are talking about it.

The posters for president Thaksin were almost certainly someone out to discredit him, well done!

I will add some facts of my own.

Redshirt guards are armed and have been from the first days of the protest - I have seen this with my own eyes on numerous occasions.

The only section of society that hasn't been the victim of a grenade attack are the redshirts. Politicians, the public, the army, banks, shopping centres anothers have all received grenade attacks but not the reds. Hmmmmmmmm.

Chavalit wrecked the Thai economy in 1997 and we don't want him back.

Parliament is composed of elected MPs representing consituencies and those that were elected by redshirts are there to represent them. PT is still the single biggest party even after those members who were cheating were banned, but they lost the confidence of their coalition partners and some of their own members who joined the democrats to form a perfectly legal government in the same way governments have always been formed in Thailand "democracy" was introduced.

Thaksin has the blood of 2500 "drug dealers", 23 environmental campaigners, a significant number of people in the south and one of Thailand's leading Human Rights Lawyers on his hands.

Redshirts have created an atmosphere of fear amongst people who don't agree with them at their checkpoints.

Redshirts break the law with impunity and then repeatedly say it was someone else trying to make them look bad.

Redshirts repeatedly threaten an escalation in violence.

Redshirts threatened to assault me when I tried to discuss issues that could help the poor with them.

Redshirt guards drew a gun on me at Rachaprasong when I refused to let them search me. Obviously my refusal was immediately withdrawn.

Yellowshirt leaders should also be held to account for their actions, although shutting down an airport for a week pales into insignificance compared to what we are dealing with now.

Multicoloured protestors wave Thai flags, praise the King, sing patriotic songs, curse Thaksin and other redshirt leaders. They disrupt the traffic a bit but go home after a few hours of shouting and are warned by their leaders not to go and confront redshirts. They don't create roadblocks, they don't shoot people, they are not armed, they don't demand they get more sweeties than you or they are starting a civil war, they don't have an army, they don't make reporters wear an armband with their own aims printed on them, they want peace and quiet.

Hopefully, Chavalit, Thaksin and all the other redshirt criminals will end up in a stinking cell together or worse.

(I didn't write that last bit, it was a "fake me", someone else trying to discredit me, perhaps even my third hand.)

Edited April 28, 2010 by nickupton

[rixalex]

It is for sure that he will see a five year ban from politics.

If Abhisit gets banned for five years expect to see the reds out on the streets complaining about how unfair it is.

Oops, my mistake.

[kerm99]

We have no reliable information about this conflict here in Thailand...nothing but slanted opinions, outright lies and propaganda to read...I've tried to put below what I know as fact and some of the things that I believe.

The reds have a manifesto, it's pretty clear what they want..it's expressed simply and it seems perfectly reasonable...they want a vote and some representation in government...not too much to ask for in my opinion...but some folk on here who claim to have some sort of divine insider knowledge...claiming that they somehow know that the reds want all sorts of other things as well, things that are desperately unpopular, such as the nonsense about weakening of the monarchy....it seems to me that the claimers of the divine inside knowledge are simply parroting yellow shirt, Democrat lies...and it's getting really tedious. The other tedious divine knowledge is all the guff about Thaksin....you farangs out there do not know anything at all about Thaksin's role, you have no privileged information and again are just parroting yellow shirt lies....

Here is what I know and don't know:

I don't know whether Abhisit is corrupt...pretty much every other politician seems to be...and he was deputy chairman of the democrats when a huge illegal donation was made to them...what is the saying about smoke and fire?

I do know Abhisit is incompetent and in my opinion he has blood on his hands from the April 10th massacre...

I also know that Abhisit tells lies...he said on April 10th that the troops had no live ammo (and then the next day the army asked for 6000 live rounds back)....for god's sake the man can't even lie competently....lying is essential in politics and Abhisit should resign on the grounds of total incompetence...

I don't know who the men in black are...and I don't believe that anyone else on this board knows either, nor do they know what the agenda of the men in black is...

I don't know who put up the posters on Silom calling for Thaksin as president....whoever did it knew that this would be desperately unpopular with the masses and would therefore discredit the reds...thus I think it was done by Yellow shirts or government (particualrly as Silom was crawling with army when the posters were put up)...

Abhisit is probably corrupt, I agree. Just less so than most others.

Abhisit does seem to be handling this situation pretty incompetently. Blood on his hands?????? I think probably not, just a total balls up and playing into the hands of what the red leaders wanted.

Abhisit tells lies.......well, show me someone that doesn't. His lies seem smaller than redshirt lies and at least he is honest enough to correct them - but yes, there are lies.

The men in black are Seh Daeng's army. Everyone knows that, he told us. Photographic and video evidence tells us. The noodle lady told me, even the soi dogs are talking about it.

The posters for president Thaksin were almost certainly someone out to discredit him, well done!

I will add some facts of my own.

Redshirt guards are armed and have been from the first days of the protest - I have seen this with my own eyes on numerous occasions.

The only section of society that hasn't been the victim of a grenade attack are the redshirts. Politicians, the public, the army, banks, shopping centres anothers have all received grenade attacks but not the reds. Hmmmmmmmm.

Chavalit wrecked the Thai economy in 1997 and we don't want him back.

Parliament is composed of elected MPs representing consituencies and those that were elected by redshirts are there to represent them. PT is still the single biggest party even after those members who were cheating were banned, but they lost the confidence of their coalition partners and some of their own members who joined the democrats to form a perfectly legal government in the same way governments have always been formed in Thailand "democracy" was introduced.

Thaksin has the blood of 2500 "drug dealers", 23 environmental campaigners, a significant number of people in the south and one of Thailand's leading Human Rights Lawyers on his hands.

Redshirts have created an atmosphere of fear amongst people who don't agree with them at their checkpoints.

Redshirts break the law with impunity and then repeatedly say it was someone else trying to make them look bad.

Redshirts repeatedly threaten an escalation in violence.

Redshirts threatened to assault me when I tried to discuss issues that could help the poor with them.

Redshirt guards drew a gun on me at Rachaprasong when I refused to let them search me. Obviously my refusal was immediately withdrawn.

Yellowshirt leaders should also be held to account for their actions, although shutting down an airport for a week pales into insignificance compared to what we are dealing with now.

Hopefully, Chavalit, Thaksin and all the other redshirt criminals will end up in a stinking cell together or worse.

(I didn't write that last bit, it was a "fake me", someone else trying to discredit me, perhaps even my third hand.)

Now we are talking.

Here we have a very respectful discussion between two person who don;t agree fully with each other. One is slanted a bit on the red side, while the other is slanted a bit on the government side. This is what a forum should be all about. No need to insult each other because we don't agree with your view.

I would like to thanks both of the writters. Well Done

Now, we can read then and make up our own mind as to what we believe or not. no need to insult either of

Cheers,

Kerm

[quiksilva]

Please learn to use the quote function. That was not my post.

We have no reliable information about this conflict here in Thailand...nothing but slanted opinions, outright lies and propaganda to read...I've tried to put below what I know as fact and some of the things that I believe.

The reds have a manifesto, it's pretty clear what they want..it's expressed simply and it seems perfectly reasonable...they want a vote and some representation in government...not too much to ask for in my opinion...but some folk on here who claim to have some sort of divine insider knowledge...claiming that they somehow know that the reds want all sorts of other things as well, things that are desperately unpopular, such as the nonsense about weakening of the monarchy....it seems to me that the claimers of the divine inside knowledge are simply parroting yellow shirt, Democrat lies...and it's getting really tedious. The other tedious divine knowledge is all the guff about Thaksin....you farangs out there do not know anything at all about Thaksin's role, you have no privileged information and again are just parroting yellow shirt lies....

Here is what I know and don't know:

I don't know whether Abhisit is corrupt...pretty much every other politician seems to be...and he was deputy chairman of the democrats when a huge illegal donation was made to them...what is the saying about smoke and fire?

I do know Abhisit is incompetent and in my opinion he has blood on his hands from the April 10th massacre...

I also know that Abhisit tells lies...he said on April 10th that the troops had no live ammo (and then the next day the army asked for 6000 live rounds back)....for god's sake the man can't even lie competently....lying is essential in politics and Abhisit should resign on the grounds of total incompetence...

I don't know who the men in black are...and I don't believe that anyone else on this board knows either, nor do they know what the agenda of the men in black is...

I don't know who put up the posters on Silom calling for Thaksin as president....whoever did it knew that this would be desperately unpopular with the masses and would therefore discredit the reds...thus I think it was done by Yellow shirts or government (particualrly as Silom was crawling with army when the posters were put up)...

Abhisit is probably corrupt, I agree. Just less so than most others.

Abhisit does seem to be handling this situation pretty incompetently. Blood on his hands?????? I think probably not, just a total balls up and playing into the hands of what the red leaders wanted.

Abhisit tells lies.......well, show me someone that doesn't. His lies seem smaller than redshirt lies and at least he is honest enough to correct them - but yes, there are lies.

The men in black are Seh Daeng's army. Everyone knows that, he told us. Photographic and video evidence tells us. The noodle lady told me, even the soi dogs are talking about it.

The posters for president Thaksin were almost certainly someone out to discredit him, well done!

I will add some facts of my own.

Redshirt guards are armed and have been from the first days of the protest - I have seen this with my own eyes on numerous occasions.

The only section of society that hasn't been the victim of a grenade attack are the redshirts. Politicians, the public, the army, banks, shopping centres anothers have all received grenade attacks but not the reds. Hmmmmmmmm.

Chavalit wrecked the Thai economy in 1997 and we don't want him back.

Parliament is composed of elected MPs representing consituencies and those that were elected by redshirts are there to represent them. PT is still the single biggest party even after those members who were cheating were banned, but they lost the confidence of their coalition partners and some of their own members who joined the democrats to form a perfectly legal government in the same way governments have always been formed in Thailand "democracy" was introduced.

Thaksin has the blood of 2500 "drug dealers", 23 environmental campaigners, a significant number of people in the south and one of Thailand's leading Human Rights Lawyers on his hands.

Redshirts have created an atmosphere of fear amongst people who don't agree with them at their checkpoints.

Redshirts break the law with impunity and then repeatedly say it was someone else trying to make them look bad.

Redshirts repeatedly threaten an escalation in violence.

Redshirts threatened to assault me when I tried to discuss issues that could help the poor with them.

Redshirt guards drew a gun on me at Rachaprasong when I refused to let them search me. Obviously my refusal was immediately withdrawn.

Yellowshirt leaders should also be held to account for their actions, although shutting down an airport for a week pales into insignificance compared to what we are dealing with now.

Multicoloured protestors wave Thai flags, praise the King, sing patriotic songs, curse Thaksin and other redshirt leaders. They disrupt the traffic a bit but go home after a few hours of shouting and are warned by their leaders not to go and confront redshirts. They don't create roadblocks, they don't shoot people, they are not armed, they don't demand they get more sweeties than you or they are starting a civil war, they don't have an army, they don't make reporters wear an armband with their own aims printed on them, they want peace and quiet.

Hopefully, Chavalit, Thaksin and all the other redshirt criminals will end up in a stinking cell together or worse.

(I didn't write that last bit, it was a "fake me", someone else trying to discredit me, perhaps even my third hand.)

[rixalex]

If Abhisit is confident that his platform and job performance have widespread appeal, then he shouldn't fear moving an election forward.

He's in power legally, so why give the opposition a crack of the whip just so as to appease a violent minority mob? Surely calling an election is something he should be doing of his own freewill, not with a gun to his head.

Before the reds started trying to force the country into elections, i was in favour of them. Now i'm not, because i don't believe in mob rule. The mob has to go first and law has to be respected. That's the only way this can end long-term. Coerced snap elections would be an extremely short-term "solution".

[jdinasia]

If Abhisit is confident that his platform and job performance have widespread appeal, then he shouldn't fear moving an election forward. The election would act as a referendum reaffirming the current government's legitimacy.

The problems with this idea are vast ---

1) It lets a minority group breaking the law in the streets of Bangkok control the electoral process ... bad idea.

2) It denies the rights of the ore than 50% of Thais that are represented by the current coalition government to representation they are entitled to in a Democracy.

3) The charter needs to be ammended BEFORE new elections.

4) It must be safe for ALL parties to campaign in ALL areas of Thailand before you can have free and fair elections. Yes that includes PTP being able to campaign in the South and the Democrats being able to campaign in Isaan and the North.

5) The issue of electoral fraud must be dealt with BEFORE new elections. What happenes if yet again the Thaksin proxy parties are caught red-handed commiting electoral fraud, get disbanded etc? Remember the PPP disbanding was done over Video evidence of a PPP exec paying off people.

I think the fact that Abhisit has been willing to hold elections a FULL YEAR early has shown that he is willing to do the right thing, but obviously the business of government MUST continue and that precludes the concept of immediate elections.

[timekeeper]

Head of the Army - Romklao - Chawalit - bombing his own troops. Ring any bells?

BANGKOK, 17 November 2009 (NNT) – Opposition Puea Thai Party Chairperson General Chavalit Yongchaiyudh has denied his involvement in the recent bombing at a rally of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) on Sunday.PAD top leader and New Politics Party leader, Sondhi Limthongkul, accused General Chavalit and the opposition Puea Thai of plotting the bombing incident which wounded 13 people. The PAD staged a rally on Sunday to protest against former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra and Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen due to the appointment of Mr Thaksin as economic adviser to Phnom Penh.

General Chavalit said that he would not sue Mr Sondhi and was ready to forgive the PAD leader for the accusation.

Meanwhile, Puea Thai Party member General Panlop Pinmanee also denied taking part in the explosion, saying he would admit if he did so.

NNT news

17 November 2009 04:53 AM

[123ace]

Please learn to use the quote function. That was not my post.

We have no reliable information about this conflict here in Thailand...nothing but slanted opinions, outright lies and propaganda to read...I've tried to put below what I know as fact and some of the things that I believe.

The reds have a manifesto, it's pretty clear what they want..it's expressed simply and it seems perfectly reasonable...they want a vote and some representation in government...not too much to ask for in my opinion...but some folk on here who claim to have some sort of divine insider knowledge...claiming that they somehow know that the reds want all sorts of other things as well, things that are desperately unpopular, such as the nonsense about weakening of the monarchy....it seems to me that the claimers of the divine inside knowledge are simply parroting yellow shirt, Democrat lies...and it's getting really tedious. The other tedious divine knowledge is all the guff about Thaksin....you farangs out there do not know anything at all about Thaksin's role, you have no privileged information and again are just parroting yellow shirt lies....

Here is what I know and don't know:

I don't know whether Abhisit is corrupt...pretty much every other politician seems to be...and he was deputy chairman of the democrats when a huge illegal donation was made to them...what is the saying about smoke and fire?

I do know Abhisit is incompetent and in my opinion he has blood on his hands from the April 10th massacre...

I also know that Abhisit tells lies...he said on April 10th that the troops had no live ammo (and then the next day the army asked for 6000 live rounds back)....for god's sake the man can't even lie competently....lying is essential in politics and Abhisit should resign on the grounds of total incompetence...

I don't know who the men in black are...and I don't believe that anyone else on this board knows either, nor do they know what the agenda of the men in black is...

I don't know who put up the posters on Silom calling for Thaksin as president....whoever did it knew that this would be desperately unpopular with the masses and would therefore discredit the reds...thus I think it was done by Yellow shirts or government (particualrly as Silom was crawling with army when the posters were put up)...

Abhisit is probably corrupt, I agree. Just less so than most others.

Abhisit does seem to be handling this situation pretty incompetently. Blood on his hands?????? I think probably not, just a total balls up and playing into the hands of what the red leaders wanted.

Abhisit tells lies.......well, show me someone that doesn't. His lies seem smaller than redshirt lies and at least he is honest enough to correct them - but yes, there are lies.

The men in black are Seh Daeng's army. Everyone knows that, he told us. Photographic and video evidence tells us. The noodle lady told me, even the soi dogs are talking about it.

The posters for president Thaksin were almost certainly someone out to discredit him, well done!

I will add some facts of my own.

Redshirt guards are armed and have been from the first days of the protest - I have seen this with my own eyes on numerous occasions.

The only section of society that hasn't been the victim of a grenade attack are the redshirts. Politicians, the public, the army, banks, shopping centres anothers have all received grenade attacks but not the reds. Hmmmmmmmm.

Chavalit wrecked the Thai economy in 1997 and we don't want him back.

Parliament is composed of elected MPs representing consituencies and those that were elected by redshirts are there to represent them. PT is still the single biggest party even after those members who were cheating were banned, but they lost the confidence of their coalition partners and some of their own members who joined the democrats to form a perfectly legal government in the same way governments have always been formed in Thailand "democracy" was introduced.

Thaksin has the blood of 2500 "drug dealers", 23 environmental campaigners, a significant number of people in the south and one of Thailand's leading Human Rights Lawyers on his hands.

Redshirts have created an atmosphere of fear amongst people who don't agree with them at their checkpoints.

Redshirts break the law with impunity and then repeatedly say it was someone else trying to make them look bad.

Redshirts repeatedly threaten an escalation in violence.

Redshirts threatened to assault me when I tried to discuss issues that could help the poor with them.

Redshirt guards drew a gun on me at Rachaprasong when I refused to let them search me. Obviously my refusal was immediately withdrawn.

Yellowshirt leaders should also be held to account for their actions, although shutting down an airport for a week pales into insignificance compared to what we are dealing with now.

Multicoloured protestors wave Thai flags, praise the King, sing patriotic songs, curse Thaksin and other redshirt leaders. They disrupt the traffic a bit but go home after a few hours of shouting and are warned by their leaders not to go and confront redshirts. They don't create roadblocks, they don't shoot people, they are not armed, they don't demand they get more sweeties than you or they are starting a civil war, they don't have an army, they don't make reporters wear an armband with their own aims printed on them, they want peace and quiet.

Hopefully, Chavalit, Thaksin and all the other redshirt criminals will end up in a stinking cell together or worse.

(I didn't write that last bit, it was a "fake me", someone else trying to discredit me, perhaps even my third hand.)

Mate, I didn't take you for a red!!

[gemini81]

Abhisit needs to resign immediately and let Thailand heal.

and replace him with who? red shirt terrorists running the show? You better get your head examined!

[whiterussian]

georgebkk Breaking: Thai troops fire shots into the air near Red Shirt protesters near Don Muang Airport in Bangkok

10 minutes ago via Seesmic

[nickupton]

If Abhisit is confident that his platform and job performance have widespread appeal, then he shouldn't fear moving an election forward. The election would act as a referendum reaffirming the current government's legitimacy.

Sigh..... If every time anyone questioned a government's legitimacy there would be never ending elections. Gordon Brown legitimacy was questioned but he didn't hold an election that he knew he wouldn't win. Did this make him a tyrant, supressing the masses? Did people in UK bring London to a halt, scream blue murder and incite lawlessness and violence that took their country to the brink of civil war? No. They waited and can vote him out next week if they wish. In the meantime he messed some things up, came up with some silly ideas, waved away the whiff of corruption but things generally ran along okay.

This government is perfectly legal. It was formed because the current opposition were cheating. It is the opposition party's legitimacy that should be called into question.

If Abhisit gives in now he gives in to the mob. The rule of mob set a dangerous precident with the yellow shirts, it should be stopped now. An election now would see widespread voter intimidation by the redshirts, PT people unable to campaign in the south and Democrats unable to campaign in the N or NE and Thaksin's money used to buy votes. Hardly a free and fair election

However, if the only way to avert a civil war is to call an election, I hope Abhisit will be man enough to make that decision. It may just give everyone enough time to back off even if it is not a long term solution.

[chuang]

I will add some facts of my own.

Redshirt guards are armed and have been from the first days of the protest - I have seen this with my own eyes on numerous occasions.

No you wrong, Redshirts guards are not armed from the very first day......I had seen with my own eyes....I was at the Ratchaprasong protest area for the first three days.....joining in the fun and talking with the redshirts....YES for three whole days....

[gemini81]

If Abhisit is confident that his platform and job performance have widespread appeal, then he shouldn't fear moving an election forward. The election would act as a referendum reaffirming the current government's legitimacy.

Sigh..... If every time anyone questioned a government's legitimacy there would be never ending elections. Gordon Brown legitimacy was questioned but he didn't hold an election that he knew he wouldn't win. Did this make him a tyrant, supressing the masses? Did people in UK bring London to a halt, scream blue murder and incite lawlessness and violence that took their country to the brink of civil war? No. They waited and can vote him out next week if they wish. In the meantime he messed some things up, came up with some silly ideas, waved away the whiff of corruption but things generally ran along okay.

This government is perfectly legal. It was formed because the current opposition were cheating. It is the opposition party's legitimacy that should be called into question.

If Abhisit gives in now he gives in to the mob. The rule of mob set a dangerous precident with the yellow shirts, it should be stopped now. An election now would see widespread voter intimidation by the redshirts, PT people unable to campaign in the south and Democrats unable to campaign in the N or NE and Thaksin's money used to buy votes. Hardly a free and fair election

However, if the only way to avert a civil war is to call an election, I hope Abhisit will be man enough to make that decision. It may just give everyone enough time to back off even if it is not a long term solution.

Well stated, and true indeed. You can't just set up a new election all the time to satisfy violent minority groups. What kind of example would that set? The more violent you are, the more you get what you want?

[chuang]

If Abhisit is confident that his platform and job performance have widespread appeal, then he shouldn't fear moving an election forward. The election would act as a referendum reaffirming the current government's legitimacy.

Sigh..... If every time anyone questioned a government's legitimacy there would be never ending elections. Gordon Brown legitimacy was questioned but he didn't hold an election that he knew he wouldn't win.

However, if the only way to avert a civil war is to call an election, I hope Abhisit will be man enough to make that decision. It may just give everyone enough time to back off even if it is not a long term solution.

Gordon Brown was legitimatelt elected......Abhisit was not....

[timekeeper]

I will add some facts of my own.

Redshirt guards are armed and have been from the first days of the protest - I have seen this with my own eyes on numerous occasions.

No you wrong, Redshirts guards are not armed from the very first day......I had seen with my own eyes....I was at the Ratchaprasong protest area for the first three days.....joining in the fun and talking with the redshirts....YES for three whole days....

you would say that then wouldn't you, being a red supporter

however confidently stating they were not armed from the very first day, seems to indicate that you are aware that they were armed sometime after the first day.....

[whybother]

Gordon Brown was legitimatelt elected......Abhisit was not....

How were their elections different?

How was Abhisit's election different to Somchai's? Or Samak's and Thaksins's?

[hammered]

Gordon Brown was legitimatelt elected......Abhisit was not....

How were their elections different?

How was Abhisit's election different to Somchai's? Or Samak's and Thaksins's?

The BBC called Sean of the reds on this today. They stated Abhisit was fairly elected. Then Sean said he wasnt. Then they asked Sean about the undemocratic activities of the reds and then he went off on one saying the reds werent undemocratic and they said thank you very much but we habve to move onto the next story now. Didnt seem much sympathy for him.

[AlongtheChaoPraya]

Abhisit needs to resign immediately and let Thailand heal.

you are right!

You are wrong!

[AlongtheChaoPraya]

If anybody interested, Abhisit on BBC's HARDtalk at 15.30 BKK time.

[timekeeper]

Abhisit needs to resign immediately and let Thailand heal.

you are right!

You are wrong!

i wouldn't worry about these red posters, most do not even know what they are supposed to say themselves

in post #24 4223rhodes contradicted himself and said:

''Chavalit should be locked up. Abhisit is the only decent politician with the skill and acumen to lead Thailand into the future.''

i think he has lost track of what he is supposed to write and for who's benefit ..........

Today, 2010-04-28 09:41:12

Post

#24

[jdinasia]

Gordon Brown was legitimatelt elected......Abhisit was not....

How were their elections different?

How was Abhisit's election different to Somchai's? Or Samak's and Thaksins's?

The BBC called Sean of the reds on this today. They stated Abhisit was fairly elected. Then Sean said he wasnt. Then they asked Sean about the undemocratic activities of the reds and then he went off on one saying the reds werent undemocratic and they said thank you very much but we habve to move onto the next story now. Didnt seem much sympathy for him.

The fact that all the major governments of the world have had a look at how Abhisit came into power and while some MAY think that it was a little shady, it can't really be criticised since it was legal ... seems to have escaped many of the reds on this board. The shady part is the area that none of us knows ... were parties coerced or bribed into joining the dems? The 40 million bribe that was mentioned just wouldn't be enough, would it? I think that can be discounted since the graft on any single major government project would far outweigh that ... That leaves coersion and it should be clear that REAL coersion would not escape public comment over time.

Still, it is good to see the BBC finally stating facts since over tie they have tended to be quite sympathetic to the red cause.

[zirc]

Chavalit should be locked up.

Agreed, hopefully soon he will be held accountable for his last stunt:

Ex-PM, General Chavalit face criminal charges in Oct 7 crackdown case

The National Counter Corruption Commission (NCCC) announced charges against the former prime minister and other seven high-ranking officials involved in the fatal October 7th protest dispersal last year.

The Nation / March 17, 2009

and

Somchai, Chavalit, and Police blamed for Oct 7

The National Human Rights Commission (NHRC) has held many high-profile figures, including Somchai Wongsawat, Chavalit Yongchaiyudh, and Police General Patcharawat Wongsuwan, responsible for the violence on October 7.

Two people were killed and hundreds injured in running clashes on the streets of central Bangkok.

The NHRC probe has concluded that Somchai and his then-Deputy PM Chavalit should be held responsible for the violence because they were the ones who gave instructions to police.

The Nation / July 24, 2009

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Additionally, fast forward to today for his more recent crimes:

Ex-PM Chavalit to be summoned for alleged plot to topple Monarchy

BANGKOK, 28 April 2010 (NNT) - The government's Center for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation (CRES) will issue a summons for former Prime Minister Chavalit Yongchaiyudh for alleged involvement in the plot to overthrow the Monarchy.

Deputy Prime Minister and CRES Director Suthep Thaugsuban disclosed today that the center was planning to call in General Chavalit, as Puea Thai Party Chairman, for clarification after he was alleged of having connection with the conspiracy to topple the Monarchy.

He asserted that General Chavalit would face an arrest warrant if he failed to report himself with the authorities after being called twice.

Based on existing evidence, the CRES earlier indicated that the ex-premier possibly played a part in the move to topple the royal institution.

All other individuals behind the inauspicious plot will also be tracked down by a special committee set up by the CRES to face their prosecution, according to the Deputy Prime Minister.

http://thainews.prd.go.th/en/news.php?id=255304280023

Edited April 28, 2010 by zirc

[SomTumTiger]

Amen to that! hel_l, he is 78. Just have someone shout "Boo" really loud, and he'll probably keel over.