Red-Shirt Leaders To Spell Out Conditions In Joining Peace Process

[Eurod]

Red-Shirt Leaders to Spell Out Conditions in Joining Peace Process

1. "We want all people to judge us by the color of our shirt not the content of our character"

shame that will be lost on 99.9per cent of the Thais ( someones gonna prove me wrong) . Very good !

[ChiangMaiFun]

Red-Shirt Leaders to Spell Out Conditions in Joining Peace Process

1. "We want all people to judge us by the color of our shirt not the content of our character"

shame that will be lost on 99.9per cent of the Thais ( someones gonna prove me wrong) . Very good !

haha quite funny actually

[Redsunset]

I can't believe I still see Nutthawut, Kwanchai and Weng still on TV BSing.... I'm sick of seeing their faces!!!!

it is like watching little Hitlers getting air time.... arrest them already! Jeeeeeez!

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Anyway, let's hope it's all over by Monday.

[Tanaka]

So I assume that after their press conference they cleaned up their protest site and went home.Is that what happened?

The Prime Minister hasn't announced the date yet on when he will dissolve he House, so the red shirts haven't announced the date either when they will be going home. Abhisit wants to play a game, so let's play it.

Is it that you don't want to understand or that you really don't understand? Any of what is going on here. Is it because you have your red shirt draped over your head? The PM has agreed to have the election a year early, on Nov 14. If you could read, the constitution stipulates the dissolving of the house 15-30 days before. It really should not be that hard to understand. And if you want to play games, I am sure you can find plenty of fellow redshirts who want to play with you.

[brahmburgers]

The future is always yet to come.

Now the Reds are saying a definite maybe for Monday, .....but it could be Tuesday, or Friday or the following Monday ......or......

Let no one be surprised if a determined contingent of the Thai army go charging in there with armored vehicles and guns blazing. The cops will be left on the sidelines, as they should. When the Reds wipe the blood and mud and tears and bits of vulcanized rubber bits from their faces, they'll certainly all start pointing fingers and playing the blame game against the standing government.

But they'll have no one to blame but themselves - or more correctly, their thinking-challenged leaders.

When the smoke clears, Abhisit will be able to run his full term, until Dec 2011, and violent mobs might think twice before converging on Bkk in the future.

[kevkev1888]

So I assume that after their press conference they cleaned up their protest site and went home.Is that what happened?

The Prime Minister hasn't announced the date yet on when he will dissolve he House, so the red shirts haven't announced the date either when they will be going home. Abhisit wants to play a game, so let's play it.

Is it only me then that have read several times already and confirmed by several official instances that the house will be dissolved between 14 and 30 September.Or maybe they want to hear exact date,hour,minutes after the hour,seconds after the minute.....?

Why is it that Abhisit can't give an exact date? Nobody is asking it down to the second or minute, but they're asking for the exact date.

What difference dose it make?????????? NONE!!!!!

So why the problem???

Just more BS stalling.

It's time to clear them out now!!

[kevkev1888]

What difference does it make? An election on November 15 and there's a 15 day window, so what difference?

Why do they want an exact date?

Why should he give one? After all, it's his decision whether there's to be a shorter or longer election campaign - that's a government's prerogative.

It makes a big difference. Abhisit refuses to "set in stone" that he will hold an election on November 14th. He says that he will hold it ...IF his roadmap goals are met. Some of these goals are to pass laws and bills, shuffle around the army generals, etc. If he fails to meet these goals, that means there won't be elections on November 14th.

Now, if he sets a date for House dissolution, he will be forced to call an election 45-60 days after this date, no matter if he's achieved his goals or not.

See the difference and the reason as to why the red shirts won't abandon Rajprasong before Abhisit has stated the date?

If the Reds don't fuc_k off out off Bangkok the will be NO election.

And the Reds will deserve the Bloody Maelstrom coming there way!

[ozzieman05]

So I assume that after their press conference they cleaned up their protest site and went home.Is that what happened?

The Prime Minister hasn't announced the date yet on when he will dissolve he House, so the red shirts haven't announced the date either when they will be going home. Abhisit wants to play a game, so let's play it.

Is it only me then that have read several times already and confirmed by several official instances that the house will be dissolved between 14 and 30 September.Or maybe they want to hear exact date,hour,minutes after the hour,seconds after the minute.....?

Why is it that Abhisit can't give an exact date? Nobody is asking it down to the second or minute, but they're asking for the exact date.

The doctors have told my friends dad he has 4-5 months to live as he has cancer

Should he complain as they will not give him an exact date

Running a country with protestors creates many many problems

The PM can not see every possible problem the red shirts will throw at him, so I thing a 4-5 days which day is fantastic

But there are many who just see this as a chance to complain

[Jerrytheyoung]

It is obvious that the Red Shirts need more time now, and this is a direct consequence of the PAD/ yellow shirts and so on...opponents to Road map inside the Government side. And this is only based on a technical point of view.

As I have already stated in another thread:

"I am not a supporter of Abhisit, but I recognise that he has made a generous aperture, which is well perceived by most of Thais including Red shirts and that it is a good initiation to get out the mess. However, technically, from a former negotiator (who has experience of social disputes), this "roadmap' is still too vague, and can be easily dismantled by the opponants to the agreement. IMHO, due to this situation, the Red Shirts MUST go in the details in order that the Roadmap is not an empty shell and they must exert an higher pressure than the yellow shirts/ PAD in order to reach this goal.'

Edited May 8, 2010 by Jerrytheyoung

[way2muchcoffee]

It is obvious that the Red Shirts need more time now, and this is a direct consequence of the PAD/ yellow shirts and so on...opponents to Road map inside the Government side. And this is only based on a technical point of view.

As I have already stated in another thread:

"I am not a supporter of Abhisit, but I recognise that he has made a generous aperture, which is well perceived by most of Thais including Red shirts and that it is a good initiation to get out the mess. However, technically, from a former negotiator (who has experience of social disputes), this "roadmap' is still too vague, and can be easily dismantled by the opponants to the agreement. IMHO, due to this situation, the Red Shirts MUST go in the details in order that the Roadmap is not an empty shell and they must exert an higher pressure than the yellow shirts/ PAD in order to reach this goal.'

BS. They have committed terrorist acts. They are holding downtown BKK hostage. They have killed. They have maimed. They have caused untold loss of jobs, income, and hardship to people who do not deserve it. They need no more time. They have no legitimacy. They are in no position to make any demands. They have no right to delay. They need to leave. Abhisit should give them, oh 6 hours to get their affairs in order and start dispersing themselves, or else face the full consequences of the law and the military.

Jerry - you seem to think that they are a legitimate protest group. They lost all legitimacy when they attacked soldiers, police, and killed people. Let's not even mention the rhetoric from their stages or their actions against hospitals. They are criminals, terrorists, or insurgents. Pick your label. In all cases they have no legitimacy.

[Old Man River]

It is obvious that the Red Shirts need more time now, and this is a direct consequence of the PAD/ yellow shirts and so on...opponents to Road map inside the Government side. And this is only based on a technical point of view.

As I have already stated in another thread:

"I am not a supporter of Abhisit, but I recognise that he has made a generous aperture, which is well perceived by most of Thais including Red shirts and that it is a good initiation to get out the mess. However, technically, from a former negotiator (who has experience of social disputes), this "roadmap' is still too vague, and can be easily dismantled by the opponants to the agreement. IMHO, due to this situation, the Red Shirts MUST go in the details in order that the Roadmap is not an empty shell and they must exert an higher pressure than the yellow shirts/ PAD in order to reach this goal.'

BS. They have committed terrorist acts. They are holding downtown BKK hostage. They have killed. They have maimed. They have caused untold loss of jobs, income, and hardship to people who do not deserve it. They need no more time. They have no legitimacy. They are in no position to make any demands. They have no right to delay. They need to leave. Abhisit should give them, oh 6 hours to get their affairs in order and start dispersing themselves, or else face the full consequences of the law and the military.

Jerry - you seem to think that they are a legitimate protest group. They lost all legitimacy when they attacked soldiers, police, and killed people. Let's not even mention the rhetoric from their stages or their actions against hospitals. They are criminals, terrorists, or insurgents. Pick your label. In all cases they have no legitimacy.

Added to your comments:

Tonight, Nattawud said the rally must end to end nightly violent incidents. This is another blatant threat by one of the Reds' core leaders. This is the problem with Abhisit's road map. It has sent the signal to the Reds that they are in control.

BTW, for those who don't think the Reds have committed terrorists acts, the definition of a terrorist attack is:

"the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear."

The shoe fits.

[Insight]

It is obvious that the Red Shirts need more time now, and this is a direct consequence of the PAD/ yellow shirts and so on...opponents to Road map inside the Government side. And this is only based on a technical point of view.

As I have already stated in another thread:

"I am not a supporter of Abhisit, but I recognise that he has made a generous aperture, which is well perceived by most of Thais including Red shirts and that it is a good initiation to get out the mess. However, technically, from a former negotiator (who has experience of social disputes), this "roadmap' is still too vague, and can be easily dismantled by the opponants to the agreement. IMHO, due to this situation, the Red Shirts MUST go in the details in order that the Roadmap is not an empty shell and they must exert an higher pressure than the yellow shirts/ PAD in order to reach this goal.'

BS. They have committed terrorist acts. They are holding downtown BKK hostage. They have killed. They have maimed. They have caused untold loss of jobs, income, and hardship to people who do not deserve it. They need no more time. They have no legitimacy. They are in no position to make any demands. They have no right to delay. They need to leave. Abhisit should give them, oh 6 hours to get their affairs in order and start dispersing themselves, or else face the full consequences of the law and the military.

Jerry - you seem to think that they are a legitimate protest group. They lost all legitimacy when they attacked soldiers, police, and killed people. Let's not even mention the rhetoric from their stages or their actions against hospitals. They are criminals, terrorists, or insurgents. Pick your label. In all cases they have no legitimacy.

Added to your comments:

Tonight, Nattawud said the rally must end to end nightly violent incidents. This is another blatant threat by one of the Reds' core leaders. This is the problem with Abhisit's road map. It has sent the signal to the Reds that they are in control.

BTW, for those who don't think the Reds have committed terrorists acts, the definition of a terrorist attack is:

"the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear."

The shoe fits.

Can understand why people are frustrated but Abhisit is doing a balancing act again. The reds know denying the roadmap would expose their real agenda, and they know that accepting the roadmap outright won't achieve the real aim of the protest.

Take everything they say, including commitment, with a massive bag of salt until they've actually dispersed. Sadly I think we're in for more "incidents" before they actually do.

[Nick100]

They called on all sides to respect results of upcoming elections. Just like all sides respect the law when it doesn't suit them.

This is an interesting point. I can think of several cases in which various groups would likely not accept the results of the next election.

(1) If candidates from some parties are threatened or harassed when campaigning in certain areas.

(2) If campaign materials or posters are defaced or destroyed in certain areas at the request of any political party member.

(3) If any party is caught buying votes or engaging in any other form of electoral fraud.

(4) If voters are intimidated or harassed into voting for one particular party over another.

(5) If any party excessively uses media to disseminate proven lies about any other candidate or party.

It also depends on what a party does once they have power and government. If a party unilaterally attempts to change the constitution without including other parties then various groups would not accept it. If attempts are made to grant amnesty to certain people for their crimes this too would cause various groups to rise up in protests.

Currently the statement about adhering to election outcomes is missing 4 key words:

"As long as everyone adheres to the outcome of the next election... which we will rig"

I seem to remember the Red leadership putting a request (or talking about doing so) into the UN for protection because the big, nasty, scary army might be looking to crack down on their peaceful, happy go lucky protestors...?

Now, given this willingness to include the UN, and given the new willingness to take part in the road map to peace, as long as everyone adheres blah blah blah, perhaps they might consider popping back and inviting the UN to actually observe those elections?

This way the apparently inevitable Red 'victory' would be seen as a true win, instead of the sham, hollow, intimidation-led and vote-bought outcome it will otherwise be perceived to be by the opposition.

I know this will probably be shouted down but frankly if this current situation is as unprecedented as it's being made out to be, then surely unprecedented steps must be taken? It would certainly demonstrate great maturity on behalf of the Thai politicos and would help place the focus on true reconciliation as all parties will see a fairer representation of the actual vote. Getting people to vote on the actual issues and policies of the various parties is quite another thing and requires more education than can be doled out between now and than...

Basically I guess it boils down to it simply taking the better man to ask for guidance. Oh... of course, that would never happen because 'face' might be lost.... that wonderful concept that has helped this country sooo much... Silly me.

Ok... back to the sh#t & grenade flinging.

[Old Man River]

It is obvious that the Red Shirts need more time now, and this is a direct consequence of the PAD/ yellow shirts and so on...opponents to Road map inside the Government side. And this is only based on a technical point of view.

As I have already stated in another thread:

"I am not a supporter of Abhisit, but I recognise that he has made a generous aperture, which is well perceived by most of Thais including Red shirts and that it is a good initiation to get out the mess. However, technically, from a former negotiator (who has experience of social disputes), this "roadmap' is still too vague, and can be easily dismantled by the opponants to the agreement. IMHO, due to this situation, the Red Shirts MUST go in the details in order that the Roadmap is not an empty shell and they must exert an higher pressure than the yellow shirts/ PAD in order to reach this goal.'

BS. They have committed terrorist acts. They are holding downtown BKK hostage. They have killed. They have maimed. They have caused untold loss of jobs, income, and hardship to people who do not deserve it. They need no more time. They have no legitimacy. They are in no position to make any demands. They have no right to delay. They need to leave. Abhisit should give them, oh 6 hours to get their affairs in order and start dispersing themselves, or else face the full consequences of the law and the military.

Jerry - you seem to think that they are a legitimate protest group. They lost all legitimacy when they attacked soldiers, police, and killed people. Let's not even mention the rhetoric from their stages or their actions against hospitals. They are criminals, terrorists, or insurgents. Pick your label. In all cases they have no legitimacy.

Added to your comments:

Tonight, Nattawud said the rally must end to end nightly violent incidents. This is another blatant threat by one of the Reds' core leaders. This is the problem with Abhisit's road map. It has sent the signal to the Reds that they are in control.

BTW, for those who don't think the Reds have committed terrorists acts, the definition of a terrorist attack is:

"the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear."

The shoe fits.

Can understand why people are frustrated but Abhisit is doing a balancing act again. The reds know denying the roadmap would expose their real agenda, and they know that accepting the roadmap outright won't achieve the real aim of the protest.

Take everything they say, including commitment, with a massive bag of salt until they've actually dispersed. Sadly I think we're in for more "incidents" before they actually do.

They have said they will be out by May 15th.

From my perspective, I don't think the Reds' core leaders can control this other Red element that wants violence. However, I do think the DSI will take them down and it will be done independent of Abhisit's road map.

[cheguevara]

I reckon if the elections are fairly fair, limited vote buying, and democrats able to campaign in the red empire, there is no way the reds will get the most votes this time. They have lost a lot of support with their reign of terror for years now.There's the rub. The reds have no interest in playing fairly.

Here's the rub. The very feudalistic system the Reds hope to perpetuate DEMANDS they piece off the constituents in return for their loyalty. They don't know any other way to relate to each other and many don't even know why anyone would think there's anything wrong in it.

I agree. More like the mafia than democracy, eh?

Do you even know what the word "feudalistic" means?

Feudalism is a decentralized sociopolitical structure in which a weak monarchy attempts to control the lands of the realm through reciprocal agreements with regional leaders.

Now, if you really meant "feudalistic" I'd be interested to hear your further explanations. If you didn't mean it, then perhaps you shouldn't be using a word you don't understand.

[gemini81]

Anyway, let's hope it's all over by Monday.

Indeed all of us too! Only problem is over 5000 more arrived yesterday from Khon Kaen/Udon. Not an indicator they wanna disperse and return to the northeast. (at least some got their tires spiked on the way)

[Steely Dan]

Do you even know what the word "feudalistic" means?

Feudalism is a decentralized sociopolitical structure in which a weak monarchy attempts to control the lands of the realm through reciprocal agreements with regional leaders.

Now, if you really meant "feudalistic" I'd be interested to hear your further explanations. If you didn't mean it, then perhaps you shouldn't be using a word you don't understand.

Would you not say that the distribution of tea money through village elders or local mafia who control propaganda through local radio and use intimidation to ensure block voting is the very epitome of modern feudalism. A weak pliable police force who come to local understandings as to what to turn a blind eye to completes the picture. The 'class war' propaganda they come out with reflects the reality in just about every Asian Country and coming to think of it most Countries period. Still it makes a plausible story to tell the people whilst the local robber barons distribute the flow of nepotistic donations as best suits them.

[Neurath]

Do you even know what the word "feudalistic" means?

Feudalism is a decentralized sociopolitical structure in which a weak monarchy attempts to control the lands of the realm through reciprocal agreements with regional leaders.

Now, if you really meant "feudalistic" I'd be interested to hear your further explanations. If you didn't mean it, then perhaps you shouldn't be using a word you don't understand.

How right you are Che! It's nice to find another stickler for correct nomenclature. How about we go with "Despotic Paternalism" rather than "feudalistic"?

[Steely Dan]

Do you even know what the word "feudalistic" means?

Feudalism is a decentralized sociopolitical structure in which a weak monarchy attempts to control the lands of the realm through reciprocal agreements with regional leaders.

Now, if you really meant "feudalistic" I'd be interested to hear your further explanations. If you didn't mean it, then perhaps you shouldn't be using a word you don't understand.

How right you are Che! It's nice to find another stickler for correct nomenclature. How about we go with "Despotic Paternalism" rather than "feudalistic"?

Quite correct, the difference is huge as between Leningrad and St Petersburg.

[animatic]

'Jingthing'

I reckon if the elections are fairly fair, limited vote buying, and democrats able to campaign in the red empire, there is no way the reds will get the most votes this time. They have lost a lot of support with their reign of terror for years now.There's the rub. The reds have no interest in playing fairly.

Here's the rub. The very feudalistic system the Reds hope to perpetuate DEMANDS they piece off the constituents in return for their loyalty. They don't know any other way to relate to each other and many don't even know why anyone would think there's anything wrong in it.

I agree. More like the mafia than democracy, eh?

Do you even know what the word "feudalistic" means?

Feudalism is a decentralized sociopolitical structure in which a weak monarchy attempts to control the lands of the realm through reciprocal agreements with regional leaders.

Now, if you really meant "feudalistic" I'd be interested to hear your further explanations. If you didn't mean it, then perhaps you shouldn't be using a word you don't understand.

Patronage flows up hill, then some of it flows down hill again. Classic old world power structuring.

And one the Reds are using to their advantage back home, while they posture to bring it down in the city.

But really they want THEIR just-under-leader in charge to control

how MUCH and WHERE patronage flows back down hill.

Feudalistic to the 9th degree.

Edited May 9, 2010 by animatic

[siampolee]

THE NATION: Red leaders remain divided after 4-hr meeting, unable even to agree whether there should be press announcement today or tmrrw.

THE NATION: Some reds say there will still be a press con, but it will happen late in order to make sure wordings are clear, not subject to interpretation

What a pathetic bunch of mentally retarded misfits these creatures are. Methinks if they were in the gentleman's rest room that would no doubt be a personal disaster waiting to happen. Zip down, hold it ???

wordings are clear, not subject to interpretation

This plainly means that they don't want people to think about or question what they (the leaders (?) of the Red Shirt Brigade want to impose upon the nation.

Perhaps Thaksin hasn't spoken yet so the puppets can't speak ?

Edited May 9, 2010 by siampolee

[teacher50]

If anyone in the future is successful in suing the UDD (or the PAD for that matter) for damage to Bkk infrastructure will there be any funds to meet the costs or is all their money invisible?

Are people being searched for weapons as they leave the Rachaprasong area or is that an infringement of human rights?

Are either of these linked to the red-shirts' delay in ending the rally?

By the way, was there any evidence of armed gunmen in the yellow crowds either during 2008 or more recently? If there had been, could they be held responsible? Similarly, just because the armed gunmen this time were videoed in the redshirt area, surely that can't mean that the redshirt leaders could be found guilty of anything?

Why can't the redshirts TV channel be reopened and a fresh start given to the owners - two warnings and then shutdown in the case of incitement to violence or hatred. Otherwise leave it open.

The Thais are a remarkably independent people and their natural course of action may often be to break a rule if it appears to cause no harm to anyone eg road traffic infringements when the road is empty. I hope that this good-natured trait will always be there. Education can be in part about informing people of the dangers when this degenerates into breaking rules where other people are harmed by injustice, as in the case of corruption, (funding not reaching the intended usually worthy targets), not allowing people to make up their own minds about things but "vote how I tell you"

[Gary A]

What's wrong with giving a date for the dissolution of parliament? Is the puppet, Abhisit, falling back in line and obeying his masters? He gave a date for the election but he is NOT authorized to set that date. Is he speaking with forked tongue? I wouldn't trust him either without him giving the requested and promised date.

[cheguevara]

What's wrong with giving a date for the dissolution of parliament? Is the puppet, Abhisit, falling back in line and obeying his masters? He gave a date for the election but he is NOT authorized to set that date. Is he speaking with forked tongue? I wouldn't trust him either without him giving the requested and promised date.

The reason, at least for me, is quite obvious. When the date comes, he will be able to say "I never said I would dissolve parliament today" and just keep going without holding elections on November 14th. That's the only reason I can think of. I can see no other reason as to why he's basically saying to the media "I won't tell you the date because you can calculate it yourself".

[whybother]

What's wrong with giving a date for the dissolution of parliament? Is the puppet, Abhisit, falling back in line and obeying his masters? He gave a date for the election but he is NOT authorized to set that date. Is he speaking with forked tongue? I wouldn't trust him either without him giving the requested and promised date.

The reason, at least for me, is quite obvious. When the date comes, he will be able to say "I never said I would dissolve parliament today" and just keep going without holding elections on November 14th. That's the only reason I can think of. I can see no other reason as to why he's basically saying to the media "I won't tell you the date because you can calculate it yourself".

He has said he will dissolve parliament by the 30th. What else do you need?

[AJBangkok]

Red leadership wants to leave but cant as they have to pay protesters the other half of the cash when they go home. 5,000 new protesters fro K.K are just coming back to get paid.

They dont want amnesty from government - they want Govt protection from protesters they short changed.

Edited May 9, 2010 by AJBangkok

[jdinasia]

What's wrong with giving a date for the dissolution of parliament? Is the puppet, Abhisit, falling back in line and obeying his masters? He gave a date for the election but he is NOT authorized to set that date. Is he speaking with forked tongue? I wouldn't trust him either without him giving the requested and promised date.

The reason, at least for me, is quite obvious. When the date comes, he will be able to say "I never said I would dissolve parliament today" and just keep going without holding elections on November 14th. That's the only reason I can think of. I can see no other reason as to why he's basically saying to the media "I won't tell you the date because you can calculate it yourself".

He has said he will dissolve parliament by the 30th. What else do you need?

Dissolving parliament is dependant on a few things .... the law sets aside a time period of about 2 weeks during which dissolving parliament would allow elections on Nov 14th. Everyone with any common sense can work this out. Not narrowing it down is the same as saying "on or before the 30th" but knowing the reds they would ignore violence that prevented cavassing in Isaan and claim "liar liar" if he said Sept 16th and it didn't happen that day. The fact is that if there is no real participation in reconciliation from the reds then there will NOT be elections on Nov 14th.

[Gary A]

Some of you are really putting a spin on this. Abhisit says the election will be on the 14th. How can he say that when the election date is not up to him? To dissolve parliament IS up to him and he refuses to give a date. WHY?

[basjke]

What's wrong with giving a date for the dissolution of parliament? Is the puppet, Abhisit, falling back in line and obeying his masters? He gave a date for the election but he is NOT authorized to set that date. Is he speaking with forked tongue? I wouldn't trust him either without him giving the requested and promised date.

The reason, at least for me, is quite obvious. When the date comes, he will be able to say "I never said I would dissolve parliament today" and just keep going without holding elections on November 14th. That's the only reason I can think of. I can see no other reason as to why he's basically saying to the media "I won't tell you the date because you can calculate it yourself".

He has said he will dissolve parliament by the 30th. What else do you need?

That's exactly what I told Che 2 times already in this same topic,still he keeps asking.

So there are 2 possibility's.Or he can't read english or his avatar has the wrong background color.