Thousands Of Thai Protesters Defy Deadline To Leave

[AleG]

I dont know what it is like inside the red zone, but if reports are correct and gasoline has been poured on all the tyres and elsewhere, perhaps water cannon would spread that gasoline throughout the ranks with the possibility of starting one heck of a human bonfire. Or perhaps not. I cant think of any other reason why water cannon and the likes haven't been used.

Maybe because last time, when a couple trucks with water canons went to Sala Daeng they were promptly torn apart by the rioters.

[LuckyLew]

Abhisit did not give this order...his paymasters did. These families have been ordering the army to massacre many people over the last few decades including students. The problem these arrogant gits have is that they think they can keep doing it. Before there was no technology but now the firing of a gun is online b4 it reaches its target. Ask why grenades are being fired into reporters hotels and so many have been shot and killed. They need the press out of the way as in previous massacres so they can have their own Tiamen Square. These people are no better than those that ordered the slaughter of 2300 innocent students and members of the public in China 20 years ago. Ask yourself who ordered most of the coups over the last 60 years. These are descendants of the people who struck a deal with the Japanese during WW2 not to harm them or their financial interests in return for allowing the Japs to rape murder and do just about anything they wanted to the ordinary Thai people and allied POWs.

These are ruthless people who will do anything to keep hold of their ill gained wealth. They are the reason this country is poorly educated and underdeveloped. Abhisit and the army are just pawns in their game..dont blame them. Some of my history is slighty rusty so I stand corrected

Proof please?

Who are his paymasters?

Can you show proof these paymasters order the SD shot?

[LuckyLew]

Here is some red propaganda for you to bash.

"The current government did not come to power through a "normal democratic process". The party currently in power boycotted an election they knew they would lose as a first step in their rejection of democracy. Next the elected government was overthrown in a military coup, then the junta re-wrote the constitution and used the new law retroactively to dissolve the country's most popular party and ban senior politicians who had not even been accused (let alone convicted) of any crime. With their new law and institutions in place, the junta braved elections but when the result again went against them they used their legal code and control of the judiciary to eject a sitting prime minister for appearing to profit from a cooking show, then again dissolved the countries most popular party; and after thus laying waste to the opposition (all politicians elected through a normal democratic process) they were finally able to cobble together a coalition that included Newin's party, who, although banned for previous activities, was somehow allowed to continue as leader of his party as long as he switched sides.

I would hardly call that a normal democratic process.

This history may explain, in part, the reds doubting the sincerity of Abhisit's quickly withdrawn offer of elections in November."

quickly withdrawn?

why do you think that is?

red agreed then decide to change terms

then reds decided to abandon road map

[gregb]

The Red leaders say they want to talk. For the sake of avoiding more lives lost the army should withdraw to allow talks to start immediately. Amnesty for both sides is necessary.

well finally someone agrees with me on a general amnesty for all.

Actually that makes 3 of you, because that is Thaksin's goal as well. Probably can include all the red leaders in the clique too.

However, the remaining 66 million people in Thailand want justice for crimes committed by lawbreakers. Only justice can resolve this conflict. Amnesty will only seed resentment. All of you, earthpig, Jockey and the Thaksin gang are simply wrong. Sometimes, one side truly can be 100% correct and the other side 100% wrong.

Punish people who have committed crimes whatever their colour. Give justice to the victims, not the lawbreakers. I will never support amnesty, and neither will the large majority of Thais who suffered.

Let non criminals negotiate for peace. Let the criminals rot in prison.

[agord]

Meanwhile, among the people who can actually vote here, a huge number are rallying behind this idea that the elite government is killing the poor peasants.

Very true, and it seems very unrealized by most posting on TV.

Violence is costing the government support, and gaining the Reds not only fighters, but as importantly, sympathizers.

The government has a only limited time to make force work, if it can work at all. eventually, the majority of thais will not accept it. the culture just wont go for it.

I agree. They can't continue to sit there and wait. The numbers of injured and dead on the reds will continue to climb each day. When the casualties on the reds are mounting in much greater number than the army, but the army is simply sitting still, how can you not ascribe that the army has set up a killing zone, not a containment?

They also run the risk of a lot of accidental injuries against the local residents who cannot get out or have nowhere to go. If the local population really turns against the army, I doubt they can maintain enough support for this action.

wow. Thank god the general public undestand what you can't! Nobody has to enter this "killing zone" as you put it eh????? Nobody is forcing these maniacs to run out and throw petrol bombs or run around with M16's, they could have been on a bus home hours ago, free.

It make sense for the military to contain this and slowly squeeze of the red supplies while drawing out the idiots and most violent reds, as another fine member pointed out this seems to be a well planned strategy and all things considered it has seemed to work out pretty good for the military with low casualties on their side. With everything that is coming out from video and what will continue to come all Thais will condemn this as they have already.

[Thai at Heart]

If Abhisit made the SAME offer as before, but added you must ALL DISPERSE NOW, do you think the red leaders (now that General Deang is gone) would say yes or no? I don't think they deserve the same offer as before, but curious about whether they would take it or just use it as an excuse to bring in armed reinforcements.

Interesting issue.

I would imagine that the offer is privately still available if the reds want to get hold of him. I don't think Abhisit is that stubborn or blood thirsty.

Whether or not Abhisit's handlers would agree having gone to all this effort so far, is another issue.

[RKASA]

what would you call a Prime Minister who orders his Army snipers to shoot an unarmed Red Shirt leader giving an interview to the free press? Is that what Buddha would do?

If you are talking about Seh Daeng, maybe.

since the bullet entered his skull, 300 people are hurt or dead. how many more are grieving. property damage is who knows how much.

and worst of all, Thailand is approaching the point of no return.

i certainly hope that abhisit didnt give this order.

Likely an order to assassinate a General had to come from the top.

That is almost sure.

The general could have been arrested easily. He was walking alone and doing an interview alone.

What hate and stupidity orders assassinations on world wide television?

Cooler heads must take control in all Thai people.

Just a point of fact.

If you see the Thai baht quickly begin to collapse, this will be a sign that huge money people in Thailand have given up and are protecting their wealth.

The end

Three months ago when posters here were saying they should arrest him, or 1000 times after the warrant was out they could have. They made the choice not to. Then had him shot. Sorry, PM screws the pouch on this one.

Aabhisit is responsible for the murder in any just court, just like any mob boss. Shooting him before the crackdown would have been OK if his being there had not been their choice in the first place. At the vary minium its is clear criminal negligence and grounds for Aabhisit to be jailed along with Supthip. Kaset can do time for supporting Intonational airport terrorism.

It really is time for a military take over. (listen to me, never would I have dreamed it) but these clowns have to be removed if piece if going to happen

DO IT NOW>

[deepskyfreak]

The Red leaders say they want to talk. For the sake of avoiding more lives lost the army should withdraw to allow talks to start immediately. Amnesty for both sides is necessary.

well finally someone agrees with me on a general amnesty for all.

the reds have to be inside the system not outside. its what bush understood about the sunni tribes in iraq, and its why democracy exists there now.

if iraq could do it, so can thailand.

Democracy in Iraq? Thailand follow Iraq? Are you serious?

[KMUTT]

The Red leaders say they want to talk. For the sake of avoiding more lives lost the army should withdraw to allow talks to start immediately. Amnesty for both sides is necessary.

They have screwed up the economy of the whole country. They have inconvenienced a whole city. They have turned down a generous peace deal and made it obvious that they are only interested in delaying tactics.

The time for talk is over. They need to surrender or go home and organize and change the system nonviolently. They have become worse than those they oppose.

Thank you for finally seeing things clearly. Those are strong words coming from someone who has been openly pro red for a very long time. I agree, they should have taken the roadmap plan. I can't understand how someone as smart as you couldn't see what the reds were like BEFORE this current insanity (Black Songkran) but better late than never.

More Black Songkran-ish antics

Yahoo News

An anti-government protester hurls petrol bomb from their barrier made of used tires during the confrontation with Thai soldiers in Bangkok, Thailand.

An anti-government protester hurls petrol bomb from their barrier made of used tires during the confrontation with Thai soldiers in Bangkok, Thailand.

Anti-government protesters make petrol bombs in front of a stand off with Thai military.

http://news.search.yahoo.com/search?ei=UTF...&type=photo

[earthpig]

Meanwhile, among the people who can actually vote here, a huge number are rallying behind this idea that the elite government is killing the poor peasants.

Very true, and it seems very unrealized by most posting on TV.

Violence is costing the government support, and gaining the Reds not only fighters, but as importantly, sympathizers.

The government has a only limited time to make force work, if it can work at all. eventually, the majority of thais will not accept it. the culture just wont go for it.

I agree. They can't continue to sit there and wait. The numbers of injured and dead on the reds will continue to climb each day. When the casualties on the reds are mounting in much greater number than the army, but the army is simply sitting still, how can you not ascribe that the army has set up a killing zone, not a containment?

They also run the risk of a lot of accidental injuries against the local residents who cannot get out or have nowhere to go. If the local population really turns against the army, I doubt they can maintain enough support for this action.

your right, and of course the reds know this too.

the most fundamental rule of insurgency against superior force is keep the violence ongoing. everyday it goes on, the army kills innocents. yes, so do the insurgents. but armies are stronger and kill more.

that is one reason (though not the only one) why the Reds press and press and press. why use a slingshot against a sniper? because everytime the sniper fires, you win the PR battle with the locals.

people here understandably hate thaksin, but the problem in so doing is they miss his deviousness.

time works for the Reds and against the government. the government has made a huge strategic blunder allowing this to degenerate into violence. for even if they wipe out RatchaP (which i doubt they can do), the Reds clearly will reappear elsewhere. there are already reported thousands of reds at klong toei.

that is why i am increasingly of the view that only was amnesty the right thing to do, it is the only option the government has left.

it is only a question of how many die before a general amnesty is granted.

[IvanDobsky]

Meanwhile, among the people who can actually vote here, a huge number are rallying behind this idea that the elite government is killing the poor peasants.

Stop the firing of fireworks, rockets, home-made grenades, pistols and petrol-bombs. Stop the burning and looting. Dismantle the barricades and return to the peaceful method of protest they used before Pattaya 2009.

If they do all of the above and still get shot, they've won. All it would take is one phone call from their man in Dubai, (or is he still shopping in Paris?) but I doubt he'll be reading this...

[gregb]

If Abhisit made the SAME offer as before, but added you must ALL DISPERSE NOW, do you think the red leaders (now that General Deang is gone) would say yes or no? I don't think they deserve the same offer as before, but curious about whether they would take it or just use it as an excuse to bring in armed reinforcements.

Interesting issue.

I would imagine that the offer is privately still available if the reds want to get hold of him. I don't think Abhisit is that stubborn or blood thirsty.

Whether or not Abhisit's handlers would agree having gone to all this effort so far, is another issue.

The same offer would have to still be available. Poll after poll showed that while the hardliners on both sides didn't like it, the majority of the Thai people found the road map acceptable. If the reds were to make this offer publicly, there would be no realistic way for Abhisit to refuse.

We can only assume that the reds do not want this. They want more blood.

The hardliners could not thwart this deal if it was possible. A certain very important person who rumours say was likely behind the previous compromise attempt would not allow it. He wants the bloodshed to stop.

[Thai at Heart]

Meanwhile, among the people who can actually vote here, a huge number are rallying behind this idea that the elite government is killing the poor peasants.

Very true, and it seems very unrealized by most posting on TV.

Violence is costing the government support, and gaining the Reds not only fighters, but as importantly, sympathizers.

The government has a only limited time to make force work, if it can work at all. eventually, the majority of thais will not accept it. the culture just wont go for it.

I agree. They can't continue to sit there and wait. The numbers of injured and dead on the reds will continue to climb each day. When the casualties on the reds are mounting in much greater number than the army, but the army is simply sitting still, how can you not ascribe that the army has set up a killing zone, not a containment?

They also run the risk of a lot of accidental injuries against the local residents who cannot get out or have nowhere to go. If the local population really turns against the army, I doubt they can maintain enough support for this action.

wow. Thank god the general public undestand what you can't! Nobody has to enter this "killing zone" as you put it eh????? Nobody is forcing these maniacs to run out and throw petrol bombs or run around with M16's, they could have been on a bus home hours ago, free.

It make sense for the military to contain this and slowly squeeze of the red supplies while drawing out the idiots and most violent reds, as another fine member pointed out this seems to be a well planned strategy and all things considered it has seemed to work out pretty good for the military with low casualties on their side. With everything that is coming out from video and what will continue to come all Thais will condemn this as they have already.

If we are still here in a week and there have been 100 or 200 killed by then, this is how a lot of the media could possibly see it. A killing zone.

Nothing is a vacuum. People are talking about the UN, but at the moment not needed. The NGO's haven't started up yet because the action appears justified. Part of it is that the reds are still managing to supply themselves. I presume that will stop.

But as I said, if we are here a week from now, and the dead keep piling up on the red side and there has been no movement from the army to progress anywhere, you can guarantee the Hillary, Ki Moon, the Red Cross, and god knows who else will be on the phone insisting that Abhisit negotiates his way out.

Now that is definitely not the best outcome for Abhisit. Believe me, whilst I understand the red's point, the country cannot afford to allow these types of protests to go one ad infinitum. Of course, no one wants to see thousands killed either. So as long as they can put together a plan to push into the red positions, arrest as many as they can, move on and arrest the leaders there will be casualties, but it can be understood that there was a better plan than simply positioning the army in a square and shooting through tyre smoke, whilst the media keep reporting more and more dead on the red side every day.

Edited May 17, 2010 by Thai at Heart

[truethailand]

Abhisit did not give this order...his paymasters did. These families have been ordering the army to massacre many people over the last few decades including students. The problem these arrogant gits have is that they think they can keep doing it. Before there was no technology but now the firing of a gun is online b4 it reaches its target. Ask why grenades are being fired into reporters hotels and so many have been shot and killed. They need the press out of the way as in previous massacres so they can have their own Tiamen Square. These people are no better than those that ordered the slaughter of 2300 innocent students and members of the public in China 20 years ago. Ask yourself who ordered most of the coups over the last 60 years. These are descendants of the people who struck a deal with the Japanese during WW2 not to harm them or their financial interests in return for allowing the Japs to rape murder and do just about anything they wanted to the ordinary Thai people and allied POWs.

These are ruthless people who will do anything to keep hold of their ill gained wealth. They are the reason this country is poorly educated and underdeveloped. Abhisit and the army are just pawns in their game..dont blame them. Some of my history is slighty rusty so I stand corrected

Proof please?

Who are his paymasters?

Can you show proof these paymasters order the SD shot?

ok a few pointers but no names.

1. why thai people dont know their recent history.... Their history is littered with unsavoury events. They dont like anybody asking questions so they dont teach thai history at school

2. Who are the paymasters...look at any society and there are basic things we all need. Food, infrastructure,transport, yes even beer and many others.. do your own googling (hint look at Forbes you may find some answers there)

The question you should ask is who as most to loose in this if thaksin comes back and opens up the country to international businesses without current draconian rules (51% 49%)

[Insight]

Meanwhile, among the people who can actually vote here, a huge number are rallying behind this idea that the elite government is killing the poor peasants.

Very true, and it seems very unrealized by most posting on TV.

Violence is costing the government support, and gaining the Reds not only fighters, but as importantly, sympathizers.

The government has a only limited time to make force work, if it can work at all. eventually, the majority of thais will not accept it. the culture just wont go for it.

I agree. They can't continue to sit there and wait. The numbers of injured and dead on the reds will continue to climb each day. When the casualties on the reds are mounting in much greater number than the army, but the army is simply sitting still, how can you not ascribe that the army has set up a killing zone, not a containment?

They also run the risk of a lot of accidental injuries against the local residents who cannot get out or have nowhere to go. If the local population really turns against the army, I doubt they can maintain enough support for this action.

your right, and of course the reds know this too.

the most fundamental rule of insurgency against superior force is keep the violence ongoing. everyday it goes on, the army kills innocents. yes, so do the insurgents. but armies are stronger and kill more.

that is one reason (though not the only one) why the Reds press and press and press. why use a slingshot against a sniper? because everytime the sniper fires, you win the PR battle with the locals.

people here understandably hate thaksin, but the problem in so doing is they miss his deviousness.

time works for the Reds and against the government. the government has made a huge strategic blunder allowing this to degenerate into violence. for even if they wipe out RatchaP (which i doubt they can do), the Reds clearly will reappear elsewhere. there are already reported thousands of reds at klong toei.

that is why i am increasingly of the view that only was amnesty the right thing to do, it is the only option the government has left.

it is only a question of how many die before a general amnesty is granted.

Yep, keep waving kids in front of guns. Win the crowd!

[jdinasia]

Here is some red propaganda for you to bash.

"The current government did not come to power through a "normal democratic process". The party currently in power boycotted an election they knew they would lose as a first step in their rejection of democracy. Next the elected government was overthrown in a military coup, then the junta re-wrote the constitution and used the new law retroactively to dissolve the country's most popular party and ban senior politicians who had not even been accused (let alone convicted) of any crime. With their new law and institutions in place, the junta braved elections but when the result again went against them they used their legal code and control of the judiciary to eject a sitting prime minister for appearing to profit from a cooking show, then again dissolved the countries most popular party; and after thus laying waste to the opposition (all politicians elected through a normal democratic process) they were finally able to cobble together a coalition that included Newin's party, who, although banned for previous activities, was somehow allowed to continue as leader of his party as long as he switched sides.

I would hardly call that a normal democratic process.

This history may explain, in part, the reds doubting the sincerity of Abhisit's quickly withdrawn offer of elections in November."

Just because none of it is really true ---- or relative .... hey!

TRT was slated for disbanding before the coup. The new constitution didn't change that. They took TRT out for paying parties to contest the snap-elections that Thaksin called when he dissolved Parliament YEARS early to try and whitewash TRT for existing charges and himself for the Temasek sale.

The law that disbands parties and bans the executives is to prevent scapegoating a single person when the EXECUTIVES of the party share the responsibility for how the party is run. Hint: Don't make a thief, cheat, or traitor a party executive!

Newin was already out but the reds don't mind that he was backing the "Friends of Newin" faction of the PPP! His SON is the leader of BJT. Just like Thaksin didn't have anything to do with PPP .... or doesn't have anything to do with PTP (cough* cough*)

NOW ---- since that is in quotes you might want to cite your source :0

[lannarebirth]

what would you call a Prime Minister who orders his Army snipers to shoot an unarmed Red Shirt leader giving an interview to the free press? Is that what Buddha would do?

If you are talking about Seh Daeng, maybe.

since the bullet entered his skull, 300 people are hurt or dead. how many more are grieving. property damage is who knows how much.

and worst of all, thailand is approaching the point of no return.

i certainly hope that abhisit didnt give this order.

Abhisit did not give this order...his paymasters did. These families have been ordering the army to massacre many people over the last few decades including students. The problem these arrogant gits have is that they think they can keep doing it. Before there was no technology but now the firing of a gun is online b4 it reaches its target. Ask why grenades are being fired into reporters hotels and so many have been shot and killed. They need the press out of the way as in previous massacres so they can have their own Tiamen Square. These people are no better than those that ordered the slaughter of 2300 innocent students and members of the public in China 20 years ago. Ask yourself who ordered most of the coups over the last 60 years. These are descendants of the people who struck a deal with the Japanese during WW2 not to harm them or their financial interests in return for allowing the Japs to rape murder and do just about anything they wanted to the ordinary Thai people and allied POWs.

These are ruthless people who will do anything to keep hold of their ill gained wealth. They are the reason this country is poorly educated and underdeveloped. Abhisit and the army are just pawns in their game..dont blame them. Some of my history is slighty rusty so I stand corrected

Speaking of students, where are they? I can't ever recall a popular righteous uprising that didn't have masses of students and academics amongst its strongest supporters. Is an education detrimental to buying into the Red Shirt manifesto? Whatever that may be.

Edited May 17, 2010 by lannarebirth

[MaxLee]

time works for the Reds and against the government. the government has made a huge strategic blunder allowing this to degenerate into violence. for even if they wipe out RatchaP (which i doubt they can do), the Reds clearly will reappear elsewhere. there are already reported thousands of reds at klong toei.

that is why i am increasingly of the view that only was amnesty the right thing to do, it is the only option the government has left.

it is only a question of how many die before a general amnesty is granted.

That is exactly the problem, now the UDD protestors are running on the open street everywhere around Bangkok. Now they are getting more support from other regions of Thailand as well, and it will continue, and continue and continue until the end...

[Jockey]

Here is some red propaganda for you to bash.

"The current government did not come to power through a “normal democratic process”. The party currently in power boycotted an election they knew they would lose as a first step in their rejection of democracy. Next the elected government was overthrown in a military coup, then the junta re-wrote the constitution and used the new law retroactively to dissolve the country’s most popular party and ban senior politicians who had not even been accused (let alone convicted) of any crime. With their new law and institutions in place, the junta braved elections but when the result again went against them they used their legal code and control of the judiciary to eject a sitting prime minister for appearing to profit from a cooking show, then again dissolved the countries most popular party; and after thus laying waste to the opposition (all politicians elected through a normal democratic process) they were finally able to cobble together a coalition that included Newin’s party, who, although banned for previous activities, was somehow allowed to continue as leader of his party as long as he switched sides.

I would hardly call that a normal democratic process.

This history may explain, in part, the reds doubting the sincerity of Abhisit’s quickly withdrawn offer of elections in November."

And that is the truth in a nutshell not to mention the "yellow shirts" being allowed to take over the international airport for 10 days, stopping all international travel, no arrests and no one being shot at. Were the army brought in to remove these"terrorists"? Of course not! They got exactly what they wanted. Kind of shows how this country unfairly operates.

[KMUTT]

Three months ago when posters here were saying they should arrest him, or 1000 times after the warrant was out they could have. They made the choice not to. Then had him shot. Sorry, PM screws the pouch on this one.

Three months ago, Sae Daeng had the option of turning himself in 1,000 times. He made the CHOICE not to. Sorry, he screws the pooch himself on this one.

[earthpig]

what would you call a Prime Minister who orders his Army snipers to shoot an unarmed Red Shirt leader giving an interview to the free press? Is that what Buddha would do?

If you are talking about Seh Daeng, maybe.

since the bullet entered his skull, 300 people are hurt or dead. how many more are grieving. property damage is who knows how much.

and worst of all, Thailand is approaching the point of no return.

i certainly hope that abhisit didnt give this order.

Likely an order to assassinate a General had to come from the top.

That is almost sure.

The general could have been arrested easily. He was walking alone and doing an interview alone.

What hate and stupidity orders assassinations on world wide television?

Cooler heads must take control in all Thai people.

Just a point of fact.

If you see the Thai baht quickly begin to collapse, this will be a sign that huge money people in Thailand have given up and are protecting their wealth.

The end

i agree with your comments on the assasination IF the order came from within the chain of command. but frankly i am suspicious that thaigov is being entirely truthful when it comes to talking about a third force creating havoc on 10 April. i think it very possible that there are shadowy forces who do what they can to subvert democracy here.

with respect to the baht, remember that it has been strong due to strong exports. as domestic demands slumps even further due to current events, we can expect even more surge in exports and goods ordinarily consummed in thailand are shipped to overseas consumers.

but of course, if we approach the point where the flag of thailand may become Red, we can all kiss the baht good bye.

[Thai at Heart]

Abhisit did not give this order...his paymasters did. These families have been ordering the army to massacre many people over the last few decades including students. The problem these arrogant gits have is that they think they can keep doing it. Before there was no technology but now the firing of a gun is online b4 it reaches its target. Ask why grenades are being fired into reporters hotels and so many have been shot and killed. They need the press out of the way as in previous massacres so they can have their own Tiamen Square. These people are no better than those that ordered the slaughter of 2300 innocent students and members of the public in China 20 years ago. Ask yourself who ordered most of the coups over the last 60 years. These are descendants of the people who struck a deal with the Japanese during WW2 not to harm them or their financial interests in return for allowing the Japs to rape murder and do just about anything they wanted to the ordinary Thai people and allied POWs.

These are ruthless people who will do anything to keep hold of their ill gained wealth. They are the reason this country is poorly educated and underdeveloped. Abhisit and the army are just pawns in their game..dont blame them. Some of my history is slighty rusty so I stand corrected

Proof please?

Who are his paymasters?

Can you show proof these paymasters order the SD shot?

ok a few pointers but no names.

1. why thai people dont know their recent history.... Their history is littered with unsavoury events. They dont like anybody asking questions so they dont teach thai history at school

2. Who are the paymasters...look at any society and there are basic things we all need. Food, infrastructure,transport, yes even beer and many others.. do your own googling (hint look at Forbes you may find some answers there)

The question you should ask is who as most to loose in this if thaksin comes back and opens up the country to international businesses without current draconian rules (51% 49%)

Give that man a gold star.

[Old Man River]

If Abhisit made the SAME offer as before, but added you must ALL DISPERSE NOW, do you think the red leaders (now that General Deang is gone) would say yes or no? I don't think they deserve the same offer as before, but curious about whether they would take it or just use it as an excuse to bring in armed reinforcements.

Interesting issue.

I would imagine that the offer is privately still available if the reds want to get hold of him. I don't think Abhisit is that stubborn or blood thirsty.

Whether or not Abhisit's handlers would agree having gone to all this effort so far, is another issue.

The same offer would have to still be available. Poll after poll showed that while the hardliners on both sides didn't like it, the majority of the Thai people found the road map acceptable. If the reds were to make this offer publicly, there would be no realistic way for Abhisit to refuse.

We can only assume that the reds do not want this. They want more blood.

The hardliners could not thwart this deal if it was possible. A certain very important person who rumours say was likely behind the previous compromise attempt would not allow it. He wants the bloodshed to stop.

Talks are ongoing. This will all be over in a few days.

Why was Chavalit and Jatuporn left off of the money transaction blacklist? You don't know do you? Neither do I, but it is a sure sign that they are trying to reach a compromise.

[KMUTT]

Speaking of students, where are they? I can't ever recall a popular righteous uprising that didn't have masses of students and academics amongst its strongest supporters. Is an education detrimental to buying into the Red Shirt manifesto? Whatever that may be.

The students are too intelligent to give up their lives so that a billionaire fugitive can regain his stolen loot... otherwise known as the red shirt movement.

Edited May 17, 2010 by KMUTT

[toenail]

(comments in bold print)Normally, an army is supposed to be used to defend the civilians from other hostile countries.NORMALLY CITIZENS DO NOT ILLEGALLY SQUAT IN THE MIDDLE OF A CITY AND REFUSE TO LEAVE AFTER TWO MONTHS. You know a country is in a bad way when the ruling government uses its army to shoot and kill its own civilians. MMM - WHAT ABOUT THE USA BACK IN THE 60'S TRYING TO DEAL WITH PROTESTERS...WHAT ABOUT EUROPEAN COUNTRIES IN THE PAST TO CONTOL RIOTING? Currently there is a massacre (MASSACRE- good use of hyperbole) going on in the streets of Bangkok and the situation is worsening by the hour. Do you remember the Reds could have taken Abhisits offer but refused???I fear Thailand may never recover from this for many years to come. (I agree with you there)If the army go in to the protesters camp site and start slaughtering (another good use of hyperbole)the people in there, then there is a strong possibility of a full blown civil war spreading throughout the country. No matter how you look at it, a government using its army to gun down its civilians (NO, THEY ARE CALLED URBAN THUGS) in the streets is the act of an oppressive government (???more like a slow to react one) which has lost all moral code (i THINK YOU MEAN THE RED CRONIES) of conduct.

I am assuming you are not from Thailand. What would your country have done after three months of this(plus offering a solution that was refused) say "pwetty pwease? go away".

[earthpig]

Abhisit did not give this order...his paymasters did. These families have been ordering the army to massacre many people over the last few decades including students. The problem these arrogant gits have is that they think they can keep doing it. ...These are ruthless people who will do anything to keep hold of their ill gained wealth. They are the reason this country is poorly educated and underdeveloped. Abhisit and the army are just pawns in their game..dont blame them. Some of my history is slighty rusty so I stand corrected

i fear that something like this may explain the "third force" behind 10 april and the sae daeng assasination. yes, its just speculation.

[truethailand]

Abhisit did not give this order...his paymasters did. These families have been ordering the army to massacre many people over the last few decades including students. The problem these arrogant gits have is that they think they can keep doing it. Before there was no technology but now the firing of a gun is online b4 it reaches its target. Ask why grenades are being fired into reporters hotels and so many have been shot and killed. They need the press out of the way as in previous massacres so they can have their own Tiamen Square. These people are no better than those that ordered the slaughter of 2300 innocent students and members of the public in China 20 years ago. Ask yourself who ordered most of the coups over the last 60 years. These are descendants of the people who struck a deal with the Japanese during WW2 not to harm them or their financial interests in return for allowing the Japs to rape murder and do just about anything they wanted to the ordinary Thai people and allied POWs.

These are ruthless people who will do anything to keep hold of their ill gained wealth. They are the reason this country is poorly educated and underdeveloped. Abhisit and the army are just pawns in their game..dont blame them. Some of my history is slighty rusty so I stand corrected

Proof please?

Who are his paymasters?

Can you show proof these paymasters order the SD shot?

ok a few pointers but no names.

1. why thai people dont know their recent history.... Their history is littered with unsavoury events. They dont like anybody asking questions so they dont teach thai history at school

2. Who are the paymasters...look at any society and there are basic things we all need. Food, infrastructure,transport, yes even beer and many others.. do your own googling (hint look at Forbes you may find some answers there)

The question you should ask is who as most to loose in this if thaksin comes back and opens up the country to international businesses without current draconian rules (51% 49%)

Give that man a gold star.

I shall wear it with pride. I like this game. Further hint. Why does Thailand have such a small selection of foreign beers. Who would have the clout to pass laws like that, to restrict foreign alcohol imports. Who would have most to loose

One more... Why are car imports so heavily and unrealistically taxed...to protect local jobs...naaaa. You import too many Toyotas and we dont need the factory here...it can go to Vietnam or Cambodia. I wonder who rents all the land to the foreign companies...ummmm. Why dont they build factories in depressed areas, like Isaan instead of making the Isaan people go to Rayong. Lot cheaper and the East West Economic Trade cooridor runs thru Isaan. Can have vehicles in Da Naang (port) in 9 hours. They drive Toyotas now, in large trailer loads, into Laos and China from Rayong.. I hope this is helping to unravel what the poor have known for decades

Edited May 17, 2010 by truethailand

[whybother]

time works for the Reds and against the government. the government has made a huge strategic blunder allowing this to degenerate into violence. for even if they wipe out RatchaP (which i doubt they can do), the Reds clearly will reappear elsewhere. there are already reported thousands of reds at klong toei.

that is why i am increasingly of the view that only was amnesty the right thing to do, it is the only option the government has left.

it is only a question of how many die before a general amnesty is granted.

That is exactly the problem, now the UDD protestors are running on the open street everywhere around Bangkok. Now they are getting more support from other regions of Thailand as well, and it will continue, and continue and continue until the end...

More support?

The first main day of the protest they had 100,000 people. Where are those people now. There are barely 10,000 people protesting, and that includes in Khon Kaen, the red stronghold.

[lannarebirth]

The question you should ask is who as most to loose in this if thaksin comes back and opens up the country to international businesses without current draconian rules (51% 49%)

I can't answer that question but I can tell you who has the most to gain. Thaksin will be exacting tribute from any deal done anywhere in the Kingdom. Assuming it still is a Kingdom of course.

Edited May 17, 2010 by lannarebirth

[LuckyLew]

Abhisit did not give this order...his paymasters did. These families have been ordering the army to massacre many people over the last few decades including students. The problem these arrogant gits have is that they think they can keep doing it. Before there was no technology but now the firing of a gun is online b4 it reaches its target. Ask why grenades are being fired into reporters hotels and so many have been shot and killed. They need the press out of the way as in previous massacres so they can have their own Tiamen Square. These people are no better than those that ordered the slaughter of 2300 innocent students and members of the public in China 20 years ago. Ask yourself who ordered most of the coups over the last 60 years. These are descendants of the people who struck a deal with the Japanese during WW2 not to harm them or their financial interests in return for allowing the Japs to rape murder and do just about anything they wanted to the ordinary Thai people and allied POWs.

These are ruthless people who will do anything to keep hold of their ill gained wealth. They are the reason this country is poorly educated and underdeveloped. Abhisit and the army are just pawns in their game..dont blame them. Some of my history is slighty rusty so I stand corrected

Proof please?

Who are his paymasters?

Can you show proof these paymasters order the SD shot?

ok a few pointers but no names.

1. why thai people dont know their recent history.... Their history is littered with unsavoury events. They dont like anybody asking questions so they dont teach thai history at school

2. Who are the paymasters...look at any society and there are basic things we all need. Food, infrastructure,transport, yes even beer and many others.. do your own googling (hint look at Forbes you may find some answers there)

The question you should ask is who as most to loose in this if thaksin comes back and opens up the country to international businesses without current draconian rules (51% 49%)

so what you are saying is you do not know

as you cannot offer any proof to back up

your statements