Thai People And European History

[mark45y]

And the reason why these top schools remain top schools is because they draw in the best brains from around the planet.

Nothing to do with their location and everything to do with building on a reputation.

That statement is just patently absurd. Great schools and great education can’t exist without freedom of expression. Great schools can only exist in countries where that expression is permitted. In addition those schools need to be funded by outside sources beyond tuition. Again the country where they exist has to do the funding.

[buddy]

Oxford and Cambridge? Proof that a university can remain first class and still be second rate.

/quote]

Perhaps its to do with University funding?

How can you work out the logic of a British Labour Government having a "Foreign Aid" budget of nearly 8 Billion pounds larger than the University budget of its own people?

Some of this er "Foreign aid" (read unaccountable free money) goes to India where the streets are literally lined with amputees and the poverty stricken are living in soap box slum cities, whilst at the same time we are giving them this free money the Indian Government diverts Billions to fund Nuclear weapons and a Space programme...just one example of the Crazy Crazy thinking of British Politicians.

The UK should be looking after its own needs first and then we probably wouldn't have some second rate University's.

And as footnote Indian politicians should be ashamed of themselves!

[GuestHouse]

And the reason why these top schools remain top schools is because they draw in the best brains from around the planet.

Nothing to do with their location and everything to do with building on a reputation.

That statement is just patently absurd. Great schools and great education can’t exist without freedom of expression. Great schools can only exist in countries where that expression is permitted. In addition those schools need to be funded by outside sources beyond tuition. Again the country where they exist has to do the funding.

You are correct, funding and freedom of expression are essential - But so is a supply of gifted students and academic staff. All the to universities rely heavily on overseas students and academics to maintain their top level achievement records.

[PhilHarries]

I see the thread quickly descended into "Our universities are better than your's yadda yadda yadda"

"Yeah but my dad's bigger than your's"

The subject is Thais lack, or peceived lack, of interest in world history. As has been said knowledge of history is almost totally useless to the majority if we are looking at survival skills. But knowledge of history makes for a more developed personality and one that can at least appreciate how and why some things are so.

History also teaches us that conflict is mainly driven by greed not a concern for the fellow man.

A lesson that could have avoided some of the current events.

[Xangsamhua]

As has been said knowledge of history is almost totally useless to the majority if we are looking at survival skills. But knowledge of history makes for a more developed personality and one that can at least appreciate how and why some things are so.

I agree. People are more likely to want to learn how and why things came to be if they believe they can actively participate in civic life and maybe make a difference. Disempowered people see the past as irrelevant to them.

[Tonto21]

I'm sorry, but the OP's entire premise is nonsense. Speaking from an American perspective, I know very little about European history (other than the obviously major stuff), South American history, African history, and of course, Asian history. If it doesn't really effect me on a day-to-day basis, why would I be interested? Thai's would be better off learning some history related to the region (i.e., Asia), but honestly, just because you're personally interested, it doesn't mean that it's applicable at all to anyone residing in Thailand. It's a rather arrogant presumption, actually. How much do you know about Thai history? China? Japan? I'm sure your ignorance is profound.

Americans I have met cannot find Afghanistan on a world map, even though the map of Afghanistan appears on CNN every 15 minutes.

Does Afghanistan affect the day-to-day life of ordinary Americans? They are paying for it....

Similarly, most Thais I have met cannot find Iceland or Ireland (same country, different spelling) or Greece on a map, or Canada.

What they do learn in Thai schools is how much better Thailand is than any other nation, how Thai culture, history, traditions, are always superior, and that Farang sometimes eat Thai babies. Anything that went wrong in Thai history was the fault of foreigners (especially the Burmese).

This teaching of crass nationalism appears to be the most important thing for the buffaloes to learn, alongside the desirability of subsistence farming (sorry i meant to write Sufficiency Economy).

I agree, 100% Spot on!

[Berkshire]

This is becoming yet another Thai bashing thread (what's new), i.e., "Thai's are screwed up because they don't know history and what's happening outside of Thailand..." blah, blah, blah. For the record, I do believe that more knowledge is better than less knowledge. Are we clear? Ok, let's move on.

But what knowledge is deemed important? The History of Western Civilization? Religious history? The history of the world's economy? The history of movie-making? The history of African Americans in baseball? Who gets to determine what's important?

Just one example for all the folks who believe Thai's should learn European history because it's somehow applicable to them: There are countless farangs who do not believe it to be important to learn Thai while living here. I beg to differ. Now I would think that learning the local language (for farangs in Thailand) is a tad more important than the average Thai learning European history. Yet, many farangs refuse to do this. Would you consider them ignorant? Lazy? Or just plain stupid? Just asking.

[TheItaliann]

This is becoming yet another Thai bashing thread (what's new), i.e., "Thai's are screwed up because they don't know history and what's happening outside of Thailand..." blah, blah, blah. For the record, I do believe that more knowledge is better than less knowledge. Are we clear? Ok, let's move on.

But what knowledge is deemed important? The History of Western Civilization? Religious history? The history of the world's economy? The history of movie-making? The history of African Americans in baseball? Who gets to determine what's important?

Just one example for all the folks who believe Thai's should learn European history because it's somehow applicable to them: There are countless farangs who do not believe it to be important to learn Thai while living here. I beg to differ. Now I would think that learning the local language (for farangs in Thailand) is a tad more important than the average Thai learning European history. Yet, many farangs refuse to do this. Would you consider them ignorant? Lazy? Or just plain stupid? Just asking.

You are comparing apples to orangutans.

[Berkshire]

This is becoming yet another Thai bashing thread (what's new), i.e., "Thai's are screwed up because they don't know history and what's happening outside of Thailand..." blah, blah, blah. For the record, I do believe that more knowledge is better than less knowledge. Are we clear? Ok, let's move on.

But what knowledge is deemed important? The History of Western Civilization? Religious history? The history of the world's economy? The history of movie-making? The history of African Americans in baseball? Who gets to determine what's important?

Just one example for all the folks who believe Thai's should learn European history because it's somehow applicable to them: There are countless farangs who do not believe it to be important to learn Thai while living here. I beg to differ. Now I would think that learning the local language (for farangs in Thailand) is a tad more important than the average Thai learning European history. Yet, many farangs refuse to do this. Would you consider them ignorant? Lazy? Or just plain stupid? Just asking.

You are comparing apples to orangutans.

I think the comparison is quite germane, actually.

[richieudon]

I'm sorry, but the OP's entire premise is nonsense. Speaking from an American perspective, I know very little about European history (other than the obviously major stuff), South American history, African history, and of course, Asian history. If it doesn't really effect me on a day-to-day basis, why would I be interested? Thai's would be better off learning some history related to the region (i.e., Asia), but honestly, just because you're personally interested, it doesn't mean that it's applicable at all to anyone residing in Thailand. It's a rather arrogant presumption, actually. How much do you know about Thai history? China? Japan? I'm sure your ignorance is profound.

Americans I have met cannot find Afghanistan on a world map, even though the map of Afghanistan appears on CNN every 15 minutes.

Does Afghanistan affect the day-to-day life of ordinary Americans? They are paying for it....

Similarly, most Thais I have met cannot find Iceland or Ireland (same country, different spelling) or Greece on a map, or Canada.

What they do learn in Thai schools is how much better Thailand is than any other nation, how Thai culture, history, traditions, are always superior, and that Farang sometimes eat Thai babies. Anything that went wrong in Thai history was the fault of foreigners (especially the Burmese).

This teaching of crass nationalism appears to be the most important thing for the buffaloes to learn, alongside the desirability of subsistence farming (sorry i meant to write Sufficiency Economy).

[rgs2001uk]

There is though a problem with teaching history.

The historical method is probably the most useful tool in creating inquisitive and critical thinking.

Typically - This is what we believed happened, let's go back and look at the source material - Who wrote this record? Is there anything about that person and their connections that might cause them to take a biased view? Is the source material even authentic? (Bit of a biggy for one particular artifact here in Thailand). And what do we do if the source material disagrees with the official line?

You don't need to learn European history to get the benefits this kind of teaching brings - But then 'Inquisitive and critical thinking' might not be in everyone's best interests.

It might be better to teach fairy tales instead.

If I didnt know any better I could almost swear you were talking about Europe circa 500 years ago.

To quote you "Is the source material even authentic?" Bit of a biggy for one particular institution over in Europe even to this day.

In fact some may say said institution is still teaching (or should that be preaching) fairy tales today.

[kevozman1]

QUOTE (kevozman1 @ 2010-05-18 20:22:20) I think we have to understand that education standards in Europe are much

higher than the rest of the World and generally speaking where the most

intelligent people come from or are educated there.

Even though their grammar is not what it might be? ( Capital 'w' in world and redundant 'there' at the end of the sentence.)

Being educated does not make one intelligent, and being uneducated does not mean one is not intelligent.

Countries tend to teach their own history at school level; it is only if one goes on to study history at university that world history comes into it.

Apoligies, I did not know my grammer was on test while posting on Thai visa

Also smart arse you do not need to go to school or uni to learn about history.

Edited June 18, 2010 by kevozman1

[galvheim]

I must say I'm sometimes speachless over how little they know about so many things in the world.

Yesterday I showed a very clear picture of Adolf Hitler in my computer. I asked her:

-"Do you know the name of this guy?"

-"No."

-"Have you ever seen this picture before?"

-"I think so, but I not know more"

Also the fact that they live, and have always lived from they where kids, only 1,5 hour driving from the Cambodian border, they have virtually no idea that there is another country there. Ok, they start to know little bit more now after the clashes between Thai and Cambodian army. But other than that, they not know its only 1,5 hours driving, not to speak of knowing anything about the recent history of that country. Here we are talking about not having heard the name Pol-Pot, bareley heard of Khmer Rouge, and know nothing of the mass graves, the torture or what went on there. Very strange! I'm from Norway and even we where taught about this in school.

Also my girlfriends 9 year old daughter went trough one of my briefings a few days ago regarding what they learn on school. Often people, including her teachers, tell that she is a very clever girl and have examples of this. I aksed her:

-"How many months is there in a year?"

-"Two?"

-"How many weeks in a year?"

-"Mai roo."

-"How many days in a week?"

-"Four?"

-"How many hour in a day?"

-"20?"

-"How many minutes in a hour?"

-"90?"

-"How many days in a month?"

-"Mai roo!!"

I am pretty sure that I would be quite amazed if a fellow kid didn't know this even when I was 9 years old, as she is now. I aks her every day. What did you learn today?

I always get the same answer; reading and writing Thai, and some maths.

Edited June 18, 2010 by galvheim

[harrry]

I then sarcastically asked them, "What is the green stuff that grows out of the earth called which is used to cover football ovals?" They all knew, but took a moment to catch on to the fact that I was being sarcastic. I went on to tell them all most of those questions I could have answered easily in early High School and they needed to put their play stations away and learn something. Do you think they listened...?

I hope the answer you accepted was astroturf. Grass hasn't been used since I was a kid.

[sarahsbloke]

They don't teach much Thai history in EU schools.

So why should the Thai schools teach EU history.

What an racist, insulting and patronising thread.

Edited June 19, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[Hawkup2000]

They don't teach much Thai history in EU schools.

So why should the Thai schools teach EU history.

What an racist, insulting and patronising thread.

It's not. Don't you think the OP has a valid point? I find it quite sad when the average thai have such lacking knowledge in many subjects. Ok, lets forget european history, or other complex knowledge (like who Mozart was, to know what H2O is, or to be able to calculate with percent) but most thais are victims of poor schooling. Examples:

Often they can't name their neighbouring countries.

They hardly know what happened in Cambodia during the pol pot era.

Some need a calculator to figure out how much change they should give back if they sold something for 85 baht and someone have paid with a 100 baht note.

[Soutpeel]

They don't teach much Thai history in EU schools.

So why should the Thai schools teach EU history.

What an racist, insulting and patronising thread.

It's not. Don't you think the OP has a valid point? I find it quite sad when the average thai have such lacking knowledge in many subjects. Ok, lets forget european history, or other complex knowledge (like who Mozart was, to know what H2O is, or to be able to calculate with percent) but most thais are victims of poor schooling. Examples:

Often they can't name their neighbouring countries.

They hardly know what happened in Cambodia during the pol pot era.

Some need a calculator to figure out how much change they should give back if they sold something for 85 baht and someone have paid with a 100 baht note.

It is fair comment agreed

Insular, inward looking, and haven't really got a clue about the world outside their borders..??.....sounds like a vast portion of the US population then, and this is based on my 2 years working there all over the US and in fact a gentleman who had a masters degree in physic's I was working with could even point to the the African continent on a map.....he pointed to South America.... and wasnt joking either....

[kevozman1]

They don't teach much Thai history in EU schools.

So why should the Thai schools teach EU history.

What an racist, insulting and patronising thread.

So we can only learn from a school????

I have to say as much as I like a lot of things about Thai people.........

............ well mostly the chicks but lets not go off topic................. anyway

yes, as much as I like them their lack of knowledge of so many subjects

is poor at best. I would not even test them with European History, try

Asian History. Example questions: What country was Genghis Khan from?

Who was Pol Pot? What is Gandi famous for? It is not just history you

will find them poor at, try similar questions changing subjects to science,

geography etc......................................................................................................

............................. tell you what, forget what I have just said as I think most

men here have not come to Thailand to have intellectual conversations

with Thai's....................... there are better ways to pass the time.

[sarahsbloke]

They don't teach much Thai history in EU schools.

So why should the Thai schools teach EU history.

What an racist, insulting and patronising thread.

It's not. Don't you think the OP has a valid point? I find it quite sad when the average thai have such lacking knowledge in many subjects. Ok, lets forget european history, or other complex knowledge (like who Mozart was, to know what H2O is, or to be able to calculate with percent) but most thais are victims of poor schooling. Examples:

Often they can't name their neighbouring countries.

They hardly know what happened in Cambodia during the pol pot era.

Some need a calculator to figure out how much change they should give back if they sold something for 85 baht and someone have paid with a 100 baht note.

As another poster said, same with people from the USA (the ones that don't do foreign travel)

As Dan Quayle once said "I love California, I practically grew up in Phoenix"

Edited June 20, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[mca]

For people who respect a certain personage so much ask 100 local people where that person was born. If you bet them 1000 baht a time you'll be onto a winner.

[Jim's_a_Thai_Fox]

I have studied 20th Century History in an English school, it covered European/Western history. I could tell you a thing about Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Indian nor Thai history. Why would I know this?

Now, from a Thai perspective, Thais are not taught western history. Irrespective of what many posters' opinions are of the Thai education system, it is nothing short of arrogance to think that Thais should know anything about 'our' history.

I enjoy speaking to students (and the wife) about 20th history, and while I am amazed at their lack of knowledge, I don't ridicule them for it... in fact, the majority of my students are really keen to learn about history and geography...

As a side, by living in Thailand and having a chance to learn about western history told from a non-UK/US point of view, I have had a great chance to broaden my own personal perspective.

[TAWP]

I'm sorry, but the OP's entire premise is nonsense. Speaking from an American perspective, I know very little about European history (other than the obviously major stuff), South American history, African history, and of course, Asian history. If it doesn't really effect me on a day-to-day basis, why would I be interested? Thai's would be better off learning some history related to the region (i.e., Asia), but honestly, just because you're personally interested, it doesn't mean that it's applicable at all to anyone residing in Thailand. It's a rather arrogant presumption, actually. How much do you know about Thai history? China? Japan? I'm sure your ignorance is profound.

A sign of the failure of the American school-system. Of which many books are written.

[mogoso]

I'm sorry, but the OP's entire premise is nonsense. Speaking from an American perspective, I know very little about European history (other than the obviously major stuff), South American history, African history, and of course, Asian history. If it doesn't really effect me on a day-to-day basis, why would I be interested? Thai's would be better off learning some history related to the region (i.e., Asia), but honestly, just because you're personally interested, it doesn't mean that it's applicable at all to anyone residing in Thailand. It's a rather arrogant presumption, actually. How much do you know about Thai history? China? Japan? I'm sure your ignorance is profound.

A sign of the failure of the American school-system. Of which many books are written.

Not so much a sign of failure but the achievement of progressives to install a system of education that will allow people to know only enough to be usable workers, useful idiots and nothing more. A lot of money will be spent on education, but it'll go to incompetent or uncaring or unknowing myrmidons that teach our children songs about the greatness of the present president (which has never happened before in our history) that has been in office for less than one and a half years and has squandered their financial future.

[Berkshire]

They don't teach much Thai history in EU schools.

So why should the Thai schools teach EU history.

What an racist, insulting and patronising thread.

Agree.

[TAWP]

They don't teach much Thai history in EU schools.

So why should the Thai schools teach EU history.

What an racist, insulting and patronising thread.

Agree.

Nonsense.

They teach overall European, American, African and Asian history in school in Europe atleast and the same could be done here. You cannot compare Thailand as a nation to Europe as a continent and demand 1:1 ratio in minutes of history tout, as Thailand is NOT a major player in our last 500 years of history of the world nor region.

[Berkshire]

They don't teach much Thai history in EU schools.

So why should the Thai schools teach EU history.

What an racist, insulting and patronising thread.

Agree.

Nonsense.

They teach overall European, American, African and Asian history in school in Europe atleast and the same could be done here. You cannot compare Thailand as a nation to Europe as a continent and demand 1:1 ratio in minutes of history tout, as Thailand is NOT a major player in our last 500 years of history of the world nor region.

How much do you know about Chinese history? Latin America? Africa? I'm guessing nil. I can assure you that in the US, there is very little taught about other countries' history, other than America. European history gets more air time, but non-European? Forget about it. Heck, there's not even that much taught about Native Americans! You pretty much have to go looking for it.

[StreetCowboy]

8>< SNIP NESTED QUOTES DELETED ><8

Nonsense.

They teach overall European, American, African and Asian history in school in Europe atleast and the same could be done here. You cannot compare Thailand as a nation to Europe as a continent and demand 1:1 ratio in minutes of history tout, as Thailand is NOT a major player in our last 500 years of history of the world nor region.

Most of the African and Asian and American history I learnt at school was European history.

Our wars, and your part in them.

Not even a whisper of the 1905 war, the first war of the modernised Japanese empire, and the start of the collapse of the Russian empire, and the start of the end of European imperial dominance in the Far East, and the germination of bolshevikism.

Scarcely surprising, since children have little enough interest in their own history, although from what my kids seem to be doing at school, there does seem to be some effort to make it more relevant and topical (notwithstanding that you don't live in small group of islands four thousand miles away, but... Anyway, the principles are the same...)

SC

[TAWP]

They don't teach much Thai history in EU schools.

So why should the Thai schools teach EU history.

What an racist, insulting and patronising thread.

Agree.

Nonsense.

They teach overall European, American, African and Asian history in school in Europe atleast and the same could be done here. You cannot compare Thailand as a nation to Europe as a continent and demand 1:1 ratio in minutes of history tout, as Thailand is NOT a major player in our last 500 years of history of the world nor region.

How much do you know about Chinese history? Latin America? Africa? I'm guessing nil. I can assure you that in the US, there is very little taught about other countries' history, other than America. European history gets more air time, but non-European? Forget about it. Heck, there's not even that much taught about Native Americans! You pretty much have to go looking for it.

As I said, that is the American school-system that has already been proven to be a system where students cost 3 times as much now but huge hordes still leave school without being able to read...

In anyway, I read about Africa, Asia etc in school. Ofcourse one doesn't have to be detailed about every nation (Quick, which nation was formerly known as Rhodesia for a time?), but general knowledge about the biggest events is atleast expected. Isn't it?

[Johpa]

I think all thais need to carefully study the 20th century history of Iran

Uh, why yes of course, one can see some vague similarities between the rise of post war strongmen taking political control with assistance from still obscure machinations from US influence. That being said, Iran and Thailand represent very different nation-states so the end results, equally unanticipated and as yet not played out fully in Thailand, will differ dramatically.

But how can Thailand teach anything other than hagiographic history based upon the pongsawadans (chronicles) when the truth is that most Thais were either slaves, living in wilderness areas to escape slavery until slavery was abolished in the late 19th century, or relocated prisoners of war.