Red-Shirt Leaders Turn Themselves In At National Police Office

[khunjamespittman]

I would have called an early election :-)

Abhisit offered that to the reds. They rejected it.

Actualy he withdrew the offer

One of the conditions was for them to end their protest. They rejected it when they continued their protest, so it was taken off the table.

All of the speculation is over. There is a public record and timeline available. The government will now have to face their own words and actions. All the opinions, false claims, threats of the pundits here on TV have no meaning.

[bangkoklight]

Please provide evidence of these draconian laws that you refer to,and who implemented them ?

if you are to play the blame game ,at least understand at who and what you are angry with !

You're too blind, obviously. And we're not allowed to talk about it remember. Power to the People!

[Jirapa]

I have no sympathy for Taksin other than the above but he's one of the few sucess stories your talking about as it rarely happens. If your born poor in Thailand your extremly likely to stay poor.

Wow, how do you define "success"? And at what cost? If success to you means amassing enormous wealth at the cost of many lives and the stability of an entire country, then I guess you and I have different definitions of "success".

You go on to say: If your born poor in Thailand your extremly likely to stay poor.

How is that different from any other country in the world today? The rich get richer, the poor get poorer and the middle class gets thinner and thinner. Unfortunately the Red Shirt mobs have never put forth any ideas or plans to actually address this problem- they're only serving the interests of their puppet-master Taksin.

Who gave them free/very cheap education and healthcare? That could be considered a sucess for all I suppose and probably merits some support. If your born rich in Thailand you stay rich. Do you prefer that? Born poor there's plenty of runs missing on the ladder so god help you getting to the top!

Edited May 19, 2010 by Jirapa

[Siripon]

[At this point there are no winners. The Country of Thailand and its people are the losers. History has shown that the batle may have been lost by the opposition but the politicians who used the Army against the people of Thailand will eventually have to face the world for this violation of human rights. The politician may have been able to manipulate the media but that will be their downfall as investigator will have a treasure of evidence in the daily TV broadcast and print media full of politicians clearly stating their violations.

Pray for Thailand to recover and begin the international legal processes to incarcerate the government that has trampled on the human rights of the Thai citizens.

There's a treasure of evidence showing reds using guns and grenades, sabotage and arson. Behind the laughable claims of a peaceful protest were the men of violence. Thaksin never condemned Seh Daeng or Panlop, indeed he welcomed them in his 3 pronged attack on the Thai government through politics, Pheua Thai, red shirt supporters and a military force, the black shirts, ex rangers and thugs with some ex military men thrown in.

Remember USA warning the Thai government about sabotage and terrorism over 2 months ago?

[exalll]

Things everybody should understand (to save khunjamespittman and bangkoklight valuable keyboard time):

1. The current arson campaign is an expression of peaceful protest by peace-loving protestors who want nothing more than democracy

2. The current arson campaign is being conducted by disgusting FAKE reds to discredit those referred to in # 1

3. The current arson campaign is a valid outburst of passion, aimed only at infrastructure related to the elite - such as Tesco-Lotus On Nut, well known as Abhisit's normal shopping place, but never used by the poor and downtrodden

Take your pick

[jesse89]

"Please heed my call for an end to the rally so that we can continue fighting to advance democracy for the future," he said.

PRICELESS quote......continue fighting to advance democracy, yeah right. PATHETIC attempt. next?

Funnier still, this government boycotted an election, most probably will get caught out for electoral fraud shortly, are responsible for killing dozens of unarmed protesters and unarmed foriegn reporters, muzzle the media, got into power via a parlimentary deal rather then through elections , and only because the opposition was disqualified for a cooking show. And the most ironic thing of all, is that these people call themselves the DEMOCRATS !

At least the foriegn media for the most part knows that this goverment is full of sh## , pity some of the expats are still clueless though.

Mate,go back to sleep and try again when you wake up

If you really think that was all that happened here in this country then you are wasting peoples time making comments

Have some respect ,and do some research first on a subject,so we dont have to all suffer your infantile remarks

Just to cover your remarks

If an opposition party boycotts an election (the democrats),and the only party in the election (Thaksins proxy) still cant win enough votes which is what happened

They dont really have a valid mandate ,do they

You say they have killed dozen of innocent unarmed protesters,thats a non starter really isnt it as i could mention all the attatcks previously on innocent bangkok civilians who is resposible for their deaths then ?

No one there after the continuing statements by the goverment to clear the area are innocent,incredibly stupid but not innocent.

As for the last statement on parlimentary deals etc etc,welcome to the real world and guess what that how it all works

It is generally believed, and was reported by intellectuals in Thailand and overseas at the time, that the Democrats boycotted the 2006 elections because they knew that they would lose that election. Do some some research yourself.

Edited May 19, 2010 by jesse89

[stepenwolf1958]

Yes, you are right but one thing i have to remind you.

He offered the date he k n e w they will not accept.

If you are in their shoes, would you wait 5 months (November) for some elections?

Anywhere in the world, matture. ressponsible and experienced politicians would not provoke another side in negotiations by giving them so long time for elections, especially if country is in civil war, especially if an eye of international community is on your country.

Would you be so stubborn and irresponsible to give to your opposition so long time, despite you know all is about your government stay or go?

Would you provoke protesters about your government and you, by cutting supplies, basic things as water and food and after they react about the ciolence-to blame them for violence?

Would you put the finger into an eye of tiger, especially if tiger is wounded? Would you?

Would you feel bad about making Warsaw gheto over your people, but people who are not thinking same as you?

Would you punish your opponents by taking water and food from them, same time affecting innocent citizens around rally point?

Would you use rubber bullets instead real ammo?

Would you allow Amnesty International has to involve in something what you, as PM, should to fix inside of your country?

Would you allow to yourself your people in capital wait in the line for food in 21st century?

Would you call yourself, in that case, modern politician even democrat?

Would you be able to accept your acting, even just by 10%, caused deaths of so many people?

Would you step down after so many tragical mistakes you made, as politician, as a matter of dignity and morality or you would be so stubborn to keep going on, despite new casulties and deaths?

Would you?

Please answer to me.

I doubt so.

Yes - I would have done most of things. Difficult though when posters such as yourself make a drama out of every item.

I would have tried to ensure that I was acting in the best interests of ALL of my country in everything I did. Tricky at times when I would have had to adhere to the rule of law whilst protest leaders, terrorists and others on the other side did not.

Still, I would stick to my game plan to protect the interests of the law-abiding citizens of Thailand and, difficult though it would be under provocation, I would seek to ensure that casualties were kept to a minimum.

Almost impossible task, don't you think, but someone has to try and forge a civilised path in the face of barbaric thuggery from a few people who do not deserve the democratic evolution that will inevitably take place.

Waiting 5 months for elections is a tiny price to pay - assuming, of course, there were no other agendas !

I don't think i am making dramma. It IS drama in Thailand, already. Nit drama, it is tragedy. I said here just facts about way of rulling. About high price for citizens and about cruelty in solving problem, even there was a better and safer way to solve this.

Let me tell you, you said "I would have tried to ensure that I was acting in the best interests of ALL of my country in everything I did."

It is exactly what Hitler thought he was doing, long time ago. (I don't compare you with Hitler now.)

Also, it is not best interest of ALL in your country. How much Thais tax payers paid for UPKEEPING army all this time? How much money people of Thailand lost because 50% tourists didn't want to come? TAT officially claim this.

So, that what you are doing in way you are doing, in best interest of "all" citizens is not good at all.

Many countries had simmilar situations but nowhere elections was appointed in so long time. No any country, remember this. This kind of situations demand very short time for elections. This is not about what would you like or what time would you need and your party to be ready for election and to estimate some good result.

So, don't tell me please that 5 months was not put the finger in the eye of tiger now or immature and inexperienced move, based just on political animozity.

[bangkoklight]

Now this sets the stage for the politicians to face trial in the the Hague for using the Thai Army against Thai citizens. The killing orchestrated by the politicians will be avenged in the World Court now.

I know lawyers already working on this case. Abhisit is up there with Sadam now. How can the government use the Thai army to kill Thai people? It will likely be one-two hundred when all this is over. Maybe more. Abhisit is finished and so is his government.

Abhisit and Saddam - I see the tire fumes from your terrorist friends are wafting into your window! Breathe deep!

A strange post there SomTum. Is Saddam breathing these tyre fumes in? Where?

[SomTumTiger]

They boycotted because they knew that they would lose that election. Do some some research yourself.

Getting lectured on Thai History from Australia. Wonderful. Come visit - your friends are making a nice BBQ and you should definitely join them.

[TAWP]

Please provide evidence of these draconian laws that you refer to,and who implemented them ?

if you are to play the blame game ,at least understand at who and what you are angry with !

You're too blind, obviously. And we're not allowed to talk about it remember. Power to the People!

Your reply proves that this is not about democracy, but a violent revolution and a knife-stab against the core values of this nation.

[khunjamespittman]

Can we please start calling Thaksin by inappropriate nicknames? I think he finally merits them.

i would hope that you have the good sense to stop calling people names. It may have pumped up your ego, but it also demonstrated that you can't conduct a civil discourse.

[SomTumTiger]

Can we please start calling Thaksin by inappropriate nicknames? I think he finally merits them.

i would hope that you have the good sense to stop calling people names. It may have pumped up your ego, but it also demonstrated that you can't conduct a civil discourse.

I would respond, but your red terrorist friends have come outside my house and are singing "Smoke gets in my eyes" really really loud. Better hope these peaceful folk don't burn down my home.

[Heng]

Long live the status quo.

[jcbangkok]

I think most posters have moved to this thread ... http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Troops-Armou...ge-t366787.html

[slapout]

Now this sets the stage for the politicians to face trial in the the Hague for using the Thai Army against Thai citizens. The killing orchestrated by the politicians will be avenged in the World Court now.

I know lawyers already working on this case. Abhisit is up there with Sadam now. How can the government use the Thai army to kill Thai people? It will likely be one-two hundred when all this is over. Maybe more. Abhisit is finished and so is his government.

The admission of the fact that you know lawyers is not the way to make friends and influence people where I come from. Then to mention work and lawyer in the same breath does not point to the brightest light in the room. In fact both of these posts may be grounds for confinement to the local funny farm.

[sgtpeppers]

I don't know whats more pathetic - this government or the people on this forum who support Abhisits crimes.

[bangkoklight]

Things everybody should understand (to save khunjamespittman and bangkoklight valuable keyboard time):

1. The current arson campaign is an expression of peaceful protest by peace-loving protestors who want nothing more than democracy

2. The current arson campaign is being conducted by disgusting FAKE reds to discredit those referred to in # 1

3. The current arson campaign is a valid outburst of passion, aimed only at infrastructure related to the elite - such as Tesco-Lotus On Nut, well known as Abhisit's normal shopping place, but never used by the poor and downtrodden

Take your pick

4. The current arson campaign is the end result of a democratically elected government being thrown out of power by a military coup, the end result of the Thai army shooting and killing Thai people, and the end result of decades of repression by the ruling elite in Bangkok.

[OriginalPoster]

Red thugs running away give fire to a lot of buildings and shops.

What a sad finale.

Why Abhisit just didn't use the APC ad the iron fist a couple of months ago? He could save a lot of life and a huge amount of money in damage and expenses. (and international image of Thailand....)

"Italy at last has her empire. It is a Fascist empire because it bears the indestructible sign of the will and power of the lictors and Fasces of Rome. ... It is an empire of peace because Italy wants peace for herself and for everyone, and was induced to make war only when she was driven to it by some imperious and undeferable necessity of life. It is an empire of civilization and humanity for all the populations of Ethiopia. This is in the tradition of Rome, which after having conquered, associated the conquered people in her fate. Here is the law that closes a period of our history and opens a new one with enormous future possibilities."

[BigBikeBKK]

Now this sets the stage for the politicians to face trial in the the Hague for using the Thai Army against Thai citizens. The killing orchestrated by the politicians will be avenged in the World Court now.

Don't be silly- the use of armed forces to combat terrorists is completely justified and it must be said that the Thai government went about it with amazing patience and restraint. In any other country such mobs would have been put down much more forcefully.

[feesas]

All the reds: time to shut up now you terrorists losers, I just wish they take the IP address of every red sympathizer farang and deport him! red farangs OUT OF THAILAND NOW !

Now that's what I call democracy!

Before you get too wound up with your emotions from the safety of your keyboard, you may wish to contemplate why the international community is now condemning some of the scenes being shown around the world.

Did you make the same comments on Tiannamen

I did for one and protested outside the Chinese Embassy in London. Also wonder why there is no news space given to the young and beautiful protesters who have disappeared in their hundreds in Tehran, and of whom six more were hanged this week in prison (their families not even allowed to say goodbye to them or reclaim their bodies) after going through puppet trials. Not reported anywhere much except the American Persian websites. They do not even have the freedoms that Thais have let alone much of a chance in hel_l of a taste of democracy. No wonder the ones not involved in the underground 'fight' and who have the courage (and it takes real, real courage there to fight) nip over here to have a good time when they can. Here represents a unknown freedom. there are always different ways of looking at things.....and there's so much change that is going to be able to take place in Thailand.

[Chaimai]

All of the speculation is over. There is a public record and timeline available. The government will now have to face their own words and actions. All the opinions, false claims, threats of the pundits here on TV have no meaning.

... and I think you will find that they stand up quite well to scrutiny. You may recall that the international community did not intervene, rather leaving the government to play out their declared strategy.

The rebellion and terrorism that is now taking place is evidence indeed that Abhisit was 100% correct when he identified what he was dealing with.

[bangkoklight]

The admission of the fact that you know lawyers is not the way to make friends and influence people where I come from. Then to mention work and lawyer in the same breath does not point to the brightest light in the room. In fact both of these posts may be grounds for confinement to the local funny farm.

What has where you come from got to do with this? Another strange post from a Yellow.

[Siripon]

Things everybody should understand (to save khunjamespittman and bangkoklight valuable keyboard time):

1. The current arson campaign is an expression of peaceful protest by peace-loving protestors who want nothing more than democracy

2. The current arson campaign is being conducted by disgusting FAKE reds to discredit those referred to in # 1

3. The current arson campaign is a valid outburst of passion, aimed only at infrastructure related to the elite - such as Tesco-Lotus On Nut, well known as Abhisit's normal shopping place, but never used by the poor and downtrodden

Take your pick

Many young Thai men like to portray themselves as macho, if you asked them why they don't wear a motorbike helmet, why they race at dangerous speeds or don't stop at red lights, they laugh scornfully, ' Laws don't apply to me' is the unsaid message.

So situations like the present chaos are ideal for them, they swagger around, setting fire to tyres and buildings, seeing no immediate danger of arrest ( how they forget those cameras that may nail them later), they think they're real fighters.

But if you asked them how many MPs are in the current Parliament, which political reforms they're hoping for, these warriors wouldn't have a clue, which is probably why they've been turning on reporters; yesterday a foreign woman reporter was nearly attacked near Ratchaprasong, showing up their total ignorance can make them very angry.

[yeeowww]

Now this sets the stage for the politicians to face trial in the the Hague for using the Thai Army against Thai citizens. The killing orchestrated by the politicians will be avenged in the World Court now.

I know lawyers already working on this case. Abhisit is up there with Sadam now. How can the government use the Thai army to kill Thai people? It will likely be one-two hundred when all this is over. Maybe more. Abhisit is finished and so is his government.

dammit bkklight...quit being so whimpy & running from the question! Tell the world know how you would've handled this situation if you were in Ahbisits shoes. Pray tell how you would've dealt with unruly mobs of thousands, burning your city, terrorizing government buildings and infringing on all others civil rights, attacking the middle class working man and his families all while causing literally billions of baht in loss to the country and all the law abiding citizens. C'mon... BE A MAN... or don't answer the question and be a "boy".

[somchaiq]

REPORT: Arisman, Weng and Suporn are on the run: Nation Channel

In honor of the fugitives.

Bad tune man... fitting...

I believe this fits better

Looking for Freedom

[BigBikeBKK]

Now this sets the stage for the politicians to face trial in the the Hague for using the Thai Army against Thai citizens. The killing orchestrated by the politicians will be avenged in the World Court now.

I know lawyers already working on this case. Abhisit is up there with Sadam now. How can the government use the Thai army to kill Thai people? It will likely be one-two hundred when all this is over. Maybe more. Abhisit is finished and so is his government.

The Thai Army is being used by the elected government to combat a violent armed insurrection and restore law and order to the country. New elections can not be held until order is restored. Get it???

[easethesqueeze]

I can't understand how so many posters on this forum are so staunchly anti Red.

The huge gulf between rich and poor in thailand is quite clear for all to see.

Even if their cause has been hijacked by certain individuals for their own personal gain and their actions somewhat misguided there is still a class war at the core of these troubles. As long as there is a huge underclass in Thailand and until the poor rural folk and anyone not connected to the army, police force, or big business have fair access to healthcare and education and as long as there are monopolies held by the business owners over agricultural products such as Rice and rubber these troubles will continue.

I am glad that bangkok looks like it will be getting back to normal for my own interests, but i just hope that the next protest will be done in a way that will be less alienating for the reds (or whatever colour they choose to wear) and that the normal people of Bangkok wont have their lives turned upside down. I wonder how many people i have met in Bangkok would have been more sympathetic to the reds plight if the protest had been gone about differently.

I think the last couple of months has only strengthened the red cause and in time with the right leadership justice could one day be served in thailand, i hope so any way.

This is far from over.

If this was a real movement for poor people that were suffering under tyranny, I would support it for sure. But this? A fake revolution created by paid leaders and demonstrators, just to save an ousted corrupt criminal? NEVER IN MY LIFE!

well said and spot on. thailand does not have a cast system! all thais are free to geto ut of bed and go to school, study and apply what they learn to amke a better life for themsleves, get bank loans, take risk and do what they want to improve their life. Thailand is not a communist country where distribution of wealth is norm. many countries have a wide gap between the haves and have nots including developed countries such as the usa.

Don't be silly there's no comparison. I don't know what planet you live on but you don't see the same level of poverty in the developed west as you see in the provinces of Thailand. It has got better in Thailand but there's still many people living in leaky wooden shacks with a rusty roof. Yeah they seem happy as they don't have a culture of 'entitlement' like we have and usually have a close nit family to help them out.

In most of Europe the more kids you have the more money the government gives you, you get free accomodation if you don't have a job, everyone has running water, a bathroom and a flush toilet, a sterile kitchen if they choose to clean it and welfare and they don't have to pick rice in the blazing sun allday for a couple of dollars. Taksin gave the country free education and healthcare up to a limit but that won't get the poor through university as they still have to pay for that.

I have no sympathy for Taksin other than the above but he's one of the few sucess stories your talking about as it rarely happens. If your born poor in Thailand your extremly likely to stay poor.

Brainwashed or not there is no way the red movement would have been able to rally so much support if the majority of the protesters didn't believe that they we're coming to bangkok to protest for a fairer Thailand for the poor. No matter how contrived Thaksin's ability to play on the state of the current hierarchy is, he wouldn't be able to do so if there weren't very real injustices taking place here. Ok, he's paying for many of the protesters but they wouldn't be here if they weren't desperate for Change and therefor i still consider this to be a class war no matter how manipulated it has become.

Sadly due to the lack of education for the rural poor in Thailand i just hope they will one day be able to galvanize their numbers and find a united voice without the need for such charlatans taking charge, but sadly it's not going to be easy without a bankroll and those in POWER are hardly going to be tripping over themselves to offer a helping hand up.

and the chump who made the comment about thailand not having a cast system needs to wake up or shut up. Preferably both.

[CrossBones]

I can't understand how so many posters on this forum are so staunchly anti Red.

The huge gulf between rich and poor in thailand is quite clear for all to see.

Even if their cause has been hijacked by certain individuals for their own personal gain and their actions somewhat misguided there is still a class war at the core of these troubles. As long as there is a huge underclass in Thailand and until the poor rural folk and anyone not connected to the army, police force, or big business have fair access to healthcare and education and as long as there are monopolies held by the business owners over agricultural products such as Rice and rubber these troubles will continue.

I am glad that bangkok looks like it will be getting back to normal for my own interests, but i just hope that the next protest will be done in a way that will be less alienating for the reds (or whatever colour they choose to wear) and that the normal people of Bangkok wont have their lives turned upside down. I wonder how many people i have met in Bangkok would have been more sympathetic to the reds plight if the protest had been gone about differently.

I think the last couple of months has only strengthened the red cause and in time with the right leadership justice could one day be served in thailand, i hope so any way.

This is far from over.

Hmm well you cant deny that Thailand could benefit from a social reform... but these things take time. Letting off bombs, burning buildings and killing civilians.. or even soldiers is not acceptable. Many soldiers are simply conscript villiage boys doing their national service.

Ghandi's way would have been more acceptable.. workers sit down and refuse to work until they are heared. Thaksin is a greedy son of a bitch, pure and simple and really doesnt give a toss about anyone apart from himself...

[ThisIsMadness]

Now this sets the stage for the politicians to face trial in the the Hague for using the Thai Army against Thai citizens. The killing orchestrated by the politicians will be avenged in the World Court now.

I know lawyers already working on this case. Abhisit is up there with Sadam now. How can the government use the Thai army to kill Thai people? It will likely be one-two hundred when all this is over. Maybe more. Abhisit is finished and so is his government.

i have never done this before ,but i cant help myself

What a prat you are !

The only legal case here is for libelous sedition,perpetrated by you and other red followers here on this site

[BigBikeBKK]

Please provide evidence of these draconian laws that you refer to,and who implemented them ?

if you are to play the blame game ,at least understand at who and what you are angry with !

You're too blind, obviously. And we're not allowed to talk about it remember. Power to the People!

As we keep telling you, you ARE allowed to talk about Taksin, the convicted criminal, and his well documented practice of using all means at his disposal to buy elections and eliminate the checks and balances in the Thai parliamentary system in order to make himself President of a new Thai Republic. Thank goodness his agents are being arrested and his terrorist mob is finally being driven from the capitol.