Abhisit - A Prime Minister Tried By War

[jonclark]

Abhisit stick to your guns, show compassion to those who fought against the soldiers on the street, extend the olive branch. Continue to improve the lives of the poor and hunt down the bastards who looted and burnt the city of angels.

[SomTumTiger]

Going around facebook are photos showing Abhisit - answering phones in person for the crisis hotline - for ordinary citizens to call for help. How can you not think this is the right man for the job?

[wsmoh]

Lincoln authored the Emancipation Proclamation, freeing the slaves. If Abhisit wants to be mentioned in the same sentence as Lincoln, he'll act like a statesman and put his Roadmap to Peace initiative back on the table. That would help heal this country.

Of course, it (Roadmap) will be implemented. But after doing all the damage, Reds and their sponsors & sympathisers would not be fair in expecting to have early elections. I shudder at the idea of the arsonists and their bosses being our Government. Mind you, I am a ordinary, plain and decent Thai who does not hate anybody or colour.

I have worked throughout Asia for the last 20 years and corruption is endemic, it countries poor. I too fear an election will yield another corrupt and inept government. I too believe Abbhisit is an honest and genuine person. I am not sure the same could be said for his entire cabinet. The same cultural issues that impede business in Thailand impede good governence. Junior staff never expressing what they think, mae pen rai attitudes, strong hierarchy( starts in school - where kids cannot challenge their teacher and learn criticial thinking) and the belief that certain people are born worth more, from "god" and lesser mortals must bow and scrape.

Hats off to you, I live here for three years teaching at university and I can see the no-critical thinking strategy teachers implement in the students. When I break those barriers I got wonders of my students. Of course the majority of students resist. This is a main issue with Thais and the PM is one of the few who broke from those barriers but he has to paddle with the rest in the same boat.

[aussiebebe]

Abhisit stick to your guns, show compassion to those who fought against the soldiers on the street, extend the olive branch. Continue to improve the lives of the poor and hunt down the bastards who looted and burnt the city of angels.

Abhisit has emerged as the victor in the battle of Bangkok, has will henceforth wield infinitely more power than anyone could have previously imagined. Far from conceeding an early election as he offered, he can now rule until the end of next year. He will wisely push through key policies and appoint allies to cabinet position and increase his base of support.

The extent of the damage to the economy has yet to be fully realised, but will undoubtedly slash the support for the Reds as the biggest recipients of tourism baht are not Bangkokians.

[SomTumTiger]

Lincoln authored the Emancipation Proclamation, freeing the slaves. If Abhisit wants to be mentioned in the same sentence as Lincoln, he'll act like a statesman and put his Roadmap to Peace initiative back on the table. That would help heal this country.

Of course, it (Roadmap) will be implemented. But after doing all the damage, Reds and their sponsors & sympathisers would not be fair in expecting to have early elections. I shudder at the idea of the arsonists and their bosses being our Government. Mind you, I am a ordinary, plain and decent Thai who does not hate anybody or colour.

I have worked throughout Asia for the last 20 years and corruption is endemic, it countries poor. I too fear an election will yield another corrupt and inept government. I too believe Abbhisit is an honest and genuine person. I am not sure the same could be said for his entire cabinet. The same cultural issues that impede business in Thailand impede good governence. Junior staff never expressing what they think, mae pen rai attitudes, strong hierarchy( starts in school - where kids cannot challenge their teacher and learn criticial thinking) and the belief that certain people are born worth more, from "god" and lesser mortals must bow and scrape.

Hats off to you, I live here for three years teaching at university and I can see the no-critical thinking strategy teachers implement in the students. When I break those barriers I got wonders of my students. Of course the majority of students resist. This is a main issue with Thais and the PM is one of the few who broke from those barriers but he has to paddle with the rest in the same boat.

Not to discount your claim, but I certainly hope you were teaching a non-language course. That grammar needs some serious help.

[wsmoh]

Hats off to you, I live here for three years teaching at university and I can see the no-critical thinking strategy teachers implement in the students. When I break those barriers I got wonders of my students. Of course the majority of students resist. This is a main issue with Thais and the PM is one of the few who broke from those barriers but he has to paddle with the rest in the same boat.

Not to discount your claim, but I certainly hope you were teaching a non-language course. That grammar needs some serious help.

Nope, not language, rather technology related. But thanks for the comment, i did not revise the manuscript

[clockworkorange]

Abhisit honest? He's not honest enough to admit that his administration is the beneficiary of an effective coup. He is an apparently willing stooge of the "elite" whose sole political ideaology is to protect their own interests, leaving the rest of the country bereft of a government they can believe in. Expecting this arrangement to produce any meaningful reforms for the country is ludicrous. Until the roles of all participants in the political equation can be freely discussed and reconciled, the resistance is morally obliged to continue.

That's right. People don't trust Abhisit because his claim to power is so clearly flawed. Nothing will change that until he is elected in a way that is free of military and judicial meddling and gives everyone their say.

[beatrice]

Going around facebook are photos showing Abhisit - answering phones in person for the crisis hotline - for ordinary citizens to call for help. How can you not think this is the right man for the job?

I think that people who consult, who ask for help and who do not presume to "know all by themselves" and who are prepared to "lose face" and show they do not know all by themselves are EXACTLY WHAT THAILAND AND ALL COUNTRIES NEED.

Nobody is perfect and I am sure Abbhist is not...but he is doing better then a lot of others.

Thailand desperately needs a new education system one that teaches critical thinking, one that teaches people to evalaute and express opinions. Police corruption and big business interference in government is not only the problem of thailand but thailand needs a plan to really tackle it. It will take time ...

[clockworkorange]

I think comparing Abhisit to Lincoln is a bit of a stretch.

The article is classic Pravda propaganda, prepared by the party faithful.

What it doesn't mention is Thailand's fatal flaw - mob rule has replaced the electoral process, which people have completely lost faith in. Neither does the Pravda article mention that Abhisit's lot used this very same method of mob rule to pave the way for the parliamentary deal that got him into power in the first place. Thais support fair play, and while such a system of injustice and hypocrisy prevails there will never be peace. We might also bear in mind that Abhisit's pretext for snatching power was reconciliation, but all we have seen is more chaos. Far from being celebrated as the next Abe Lincoln, Abhisit is just as much focus of hatred as Thaksin is - both of them should withdraw from public life and give the country a chance to repair its broken democracy.

Restoring the public confidence in their right to elect their leaders is really what the Thai authorities should be concentrating on right now. Elections are seen as pointless until the army and judiciary stop interfering with the result.

Your heros burned down the city yesterday - You must be so proud!

Rather than taking sides, which isn't working and has not so far brought any peace, we should look at the situation objectively.

People have no faith in the electoral process anymore. There will be no peace until the root causes of the problem have been addressed - political opinions need to be expressed at the ballot box rather than on the street, and until the military and judiciary stop meddling this vicious cycle will likely continue.

It's all very well for you to hate one or the other side, but it won't solve the problem.

[midas]

I think Thailand was quite fortunate to have had a man like Abhisit at the helm during this madness. I hope he gets credit for job well done so far.

He needs to make sure that elections are on the way though, if there is an election date, the reds lose some of their fuel.

Yes, but he should not follow the original roadmap election date because there needs to be consequences for the red's refusal to honor the original agreement.

so they will keep stretching out the date for an election further and further and the insurgency

will just linger on and on.

I dont see how this will help at all

[beatrice]

I think comparing Abhisit to Lincoln is a bit of a stretch.

The article is classic Pravda propaganda, prepared by the party faithful.

What it doesn't mention is Thailand's fatal flaw - mob rule has replaced the electoral process, which people have completely lost faith in. Neither does the Pravda article mention that Abhisit's lot used this very same method of mob rule to pave the way for the parliamentary deal that got him into power in the first place. Thais support fair play, and while such a system of injustice and hypocrisy prevails there will never be peace. We might also bear in mind that Abhisit's pretext for snatching power was reconciliation, but all we have seen is more chaos. Far from being celebrated as the next Abe Lincoln, Abhisit is just as much focus of hatred as Thaksin is - both of them should withdraw from public life and give the country a chance to repair its broken democracy.

Restoring the public confidence in their right to elect their leaders is really what the Thai authorities should be concentrating on right now. Elections are seen as pointless until the army and judiciary stop interfering with the result.

Your heros burned down the city yesterday - You must be so proud!

Rather than taking sides, which isn't working and has not so far brought any peace, we should look at the situation objectively.

People have no faith in the electoral process anymore. There will be no peace until the root causes of the problem have been addressed - political opinions need to be expressed at the ballot box rather than on the street, and until the military and judiciary stop meddling this vicious cycle will likely continue.

It's all very well for you to hate one or the other side, but it won't solve the problem.

I agree however I neither support government or Reds, but I do think Abhisit as an individual deserves some respect as he at least allows himself to lose a little face and to acknowledge he does not know what to do....that is an admirable quality in anybody. A starting point.

[clockworkorange]

Wasn't Clockwork Orange about a lunatic asylum? Perhaps you belong there.

You must have missed the point about Clockwork Orange. It was actually a satirical film about an imaginary dystopian future, one in which the more society tried to analyse and control itself, the more chaotic and morally bereft it became.

[SomTumTiger]

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[taurus88]

Ahbisit the accidental PM has never been a leader who made decision. Problem is that he owes too much to the people who brought him into premiership. He does not have intrinsic strength or strong allies; only pretender. He may be a honest man but that has become his biggest weakness. In Thai politics when you have to swim with the sharks, you better be fully equipped. It is not a good distinction when so many die and country almost into civil war during his watch. When the new government comes into power, he better pray that his party stay in power.

[thaihome]

Lincoln authored the Emancipation Proclamation, freeing the slaves. If Abhisit wants to be mentioned in the same sentence as Lincoln, he'll act like a statesman and put his Roadmap to Peace initiative back on the table. That would help heal this country.

The Emancipation Proclamation only applied to areas within the Confederacy itself. The Border States that did not join the Confederacy, but still allowed slavery were not included. Lincoln needed their votes in Congress and did not want to piss them off. It was only with the passing of the 13th Amendment in December 1865, 6 months after the war ended and Lincoln was dead, did slavery become fully outlawed in the US.

Lincoln was first of all a politician.

TH

[jonclark]

Abhisit stick to your guns, show compassion to those who fought against the soldiers on the street, extend the olive branch. Continue to improve the lives of the poor and hunt down the bastards who looted and burnt the city of angels.

[clockworkorange]

I agree however I neither support government or Reds, but I do think Abhisit as an individual deserves some respect as he at least allows himself to lose a little face and to acknowledge he does not know what to do....that is an admirable quality in anybody. A starting point.

There is nothing wrong with Abhisit per se - he is just another politician. The problem that he has is that a large slice of the population call foul on the way he came to power. Regardless of how he tries to justify how he got his job, people still see him as as a cheat who stole the seat from the leader that they chose.

[atvb]

Yes, Abhisit has done a good job managing through the crisis, though one wonders why some of the strategies he came up with, such as following the money, weren't implemented sooner. Presumably because they did not occur to him sooner.

Abhisit even showed some democratic principles, at least up to the point where the interests of his paymasters became more pressing.

But all that's just a footnote to the real issue which is the ongoing travesty of justice and humanity.

Whoever was responsible for guarding buildings has not such a good job, of course.

[clockworkorange]

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It's up to you whose posts you read - why on earth make such a big issue out of it? If you are unable to read an opposing viewpoint, just read the posts of people who agree with you.

[jdinasia]

I think comparing Abhisit to Lincoln is a bit of a stretch.

The article is classic Pravda propaganda, prepared by the party faithful.

What it doesn't mention is Thailand's fatal flaw - mob rule has replaced the electoral process, which people have completely lost faith in. Neither does the Pravda article mention that Abhisit's lot used this very same method of mob rule to pave the way for the parliamentary deal that got him into power in the first place. Thais support fair play, and while such a system of injustice and hypocrisy prevails there will never be peace. We might also bear in mind that Abhisit's pretext for snatching power was reconciliation, but all we have seen is more chaos. Far from being celebrated as the next Abe Lincoln, Abhisit is just as much focus of hatred as Thaksin is - both of them should withdraw from public life and give the country a chance to repair its broken democracy.

Restoring the public confidence in their right to elect their leaders is really what the Thai authorities should be concentrating on right now. Elections are pointless until the army and judiciary stop meddling with the result.

Like you often do, you started strong but drew the wrong conclusion. Mob rule did NOT replace the electoral system this time. The government that was in power at the beginning of this mess was not brought down by mob rule. (In fact, mob-rule did not replace any of the last governments either!)

What we are seeing is the beginning of holding governments responsible for the actions of their members and a reduction in corruption.

You suggest mob rule brought down Samak and Somchai and that just isn't true. Samak was brought down by a very minor bit of corruption but could have been put right back into the driver's seat. Had he not broken the law and then LIED about it he'd have been the PM until PPP was dissolved.

Somchai was taken down by the court when they finally ruled on an open and shut case of electoral fraud. This freed Newin up from his commitment to Thaksin's parties and the rest is history!

[jdinasia]

I agree however I neither support government or Reds, but I do think Abhisit as an individual deserves some respect as he at least allows himself to lose a little face and to acknowledge he does not know what to do....that is an admirable quality in anybody. A starting point.

There is nothing wrong with Abhisit per se - he is just another politician. The problem that he has is that a large slice of the population call foul on the way he came to power. Regardless of how he tries to justify how he got his job, people still see him as as a cheat who stole the seat from the leader that they chose.

Here you are actually both wrong AND right.

Abhisit doesn't have to justify how he came to be PM. He doesn't justify it either. He acknowledges other people's issues with it. Totally different.

You are correct in that there are a LOT of people that have listened to lies and disinformation around HOW a parliamentary democracy works. Apparently that number is about 50% of those of voting age in Isaan and less than that anywhere else. Getting down to a very small percentage anywhere in the south.

[J*ames Arthur]

Going around facebook are photos showing Abhisit - answering phones in person for the crisis hotline - for ordinary citizens to call for help. How can you not think this is the right man for the job?

I think that people who consult, who ask for help and who do not presume to "know all by themselves" and who are prepared to "lose face" and show they do not know all by themselves are EXACTLY WHAT THAILAND AND ALL COUNTRIES NEED.

Nobody is perfect and I am sure Abbhist is not...but he is doing better then a lot of others.

Thailand desperately needs a new education system one that teaches critical thinking, one that teaches people to evalaute and express opinions. Police corruption and big business interference in government is not only the problem of thailand but thailand needs a plan to really tackle it. It will take time ...

Very well put indeed.

I taught in Thai schools for some time. The schooling system is a disgrace. There is no critical thinking involved whatsoever. Autonomy is not encouraged.

Furthermore, some of the schools I taught in sack their teachers each and every year. This is dreadful for the students as they become attached to the teachers and their individual teaching styles.

Every new year, the students are introduced to new teachers. Obviously, valuable teaching time is lost and each side must introduce and get used to each other. Some schools have now dropped their English Language programmes altogether to save costs. I could go on.

[SomTumTiger]

Going around facebook are photos showing Abhisit - answering phones in person for the crisis hotline - for ordinary citizens to call for help. How can you not think this is the right man for the job?

I think that people who consult, who ask for help and who do not presume to "know all by themselves" and who are prepared to "lose face" and show they do not know all by themselves are EXACTLY WHAT THAILAND AND ALL COUNTRIES NEED.

Nobody is perfect and I am sure Abbhist is not...but he is doing better then a lot of others.

Thailand desperately needs a new education system one that teaches critical thinking, one that teaches people to evalaute and express opinions. Police corruption and big business interference in government is not only the problem of thailand but thailand needs a plan to really tackle it. It will take time ...

Very well put indeed.

I taught in Thai schools for some time. The schooling system is a disgrace. There is no critical thinking involved whatsoever. Autonomy is not encouraged.

Furthermore, some of the schools I taught in sack their teachers each and every year. This is dreadful for the students as they become attached to the teachers and their individual teaching styles.

Every new year, the students are introduced to new teachers. Obviously, valuable teaching time is lost and each side must introduce and get used to each other. Some schools have now dropped their English Language programmes altogether to save costs. I could go on.

Please do, you are obviously right on topic - as we are discussing PM Abhisit's performance in a crisis. Quite the same thing really....

[bhakta]

PM Abhisit's error IMHO is his being too patient with the criminals. This is not about so-called democracy, this is terrorism of the people of Thailand for the benefit of Mr. Thaksin and his greedy, power monger friends. I am amazed that the loss of life has not been 100 or 1000 times worse. I have to give credit to the PM for his remaining cool headed in the midst of insanity. I have respect for him and hope the people of Thailand realize what a difficult position he is in.

[rossigee]

Ahhh - peace and quiet.

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I'm jealous. How do you do that?!

Seriously, I can't find an 'ignore' button or link anywhere on this forum. Where the hel_l is it, and why am I the only one who hasn't found it?

Would be handy, given the recent influx of newbies and trolls

[atvb]

Thanks for the wikipedia reference which includes the following statement: "Abhisit voiced displeasure at the 2006 coup that overthrew Thaksin, but otherwise did not protest it or the military junta that ruled Thailand for over a year". Perhaps that pretty much sums up the depth of his principles on this matter.

[Thaising]

I think comparing Abhisit to Lincoln is a bit of a stretch.

To say the least. The man doesn't even have the power to make the bad decisions he's been credited with. He is more a joke than a leader.

Put yourself in his shoe and what will you do to solves and contains this chaotic situations. Care to comment?

[sgtpeppers]

Abhisit is not part of the solution, he is part of the problem. One only has to look at the escalation of divisions under his leadership to realise that.

Of course he must take a large portion of the responsiblity for the outcome we are seeing now - he is after all, the leader of the country.

[NCFC]

I think comparing Abhisit to Lincoln is a bit of a stretch.

The article is classic Pravda propaganda, prepared by the party faithful.

What it doesn't mention is Thailand's fatal flaw - mob rule has replaced the electoral process, which people have completely lost faith in. Neither does the Pravda article mention that Abhisit's lot used this very same method of mob rule to pave the way for the parliamentary deal that got him into power in the first place. Thais support fair play, and while such a system of injustice and hypocrisy prevails there will never be peace. We might also bear in mind that Abhisit's pretext for snatching power was reconciliation, but all we have seen is more chaos. Far from being celebrated as the next Abe Lincoln, Abhisit is just as much focus of hatred as Thaksin is - both of them should withdraw from public life and give the country a chance to repair its broken democracy.

Restoring the public confidence in their right to elect their leaders is really what the Thai authorities should be concentrating on right now. Elections are pointless until the army and judiciary stop meddling with the result.

Like you often do, you started strong but drew the wrong conclusion. Mob rule did NOT replace the electoral system this time. The government that was in power at the beginning of this mess was not brought down by mob rule. (In fact, mob-rule did not replace any of the last governments either!)

What we are seeing is the beginning of holding governments responsible for the actions of their members and a reduction in corruption.

You suggest mob rule brought down Samak and Somchai and that just isn't true. Samak was brought down by a very minor bit of corruption but could have been put right back into the driver's seat. Had he not broken the law and then LIED about it he'd have been the PM until PPP was dissolved.

Somchai was taken down by the court when they finally ruled on an open and shut case of electoral fraud. This freed Newin up from his commitment to Thaksin's parties and the rest is history!

Will Abhisit be taken down by the courts over TPI Polene, or will it quietly fade into the background now that the pressure is off? I've put my money on the latter scenario.

[clockworkorange]

I think comparing Abhisit to Lincoln is a bit of a stretch.

The article is classic Pravda propaganda, prepared by the party faithful.

What it doesn't mention is Thailand's fatal flaw - mob rule has replaced the electoral process, which people have completely lost faith in. Neither does the Pravda article mention that Abhisit's lot used this very same method of mob rule to pave the way for the parliamentary deal that got him into power in the first place. Thais support fair play, and while such a system of injustice and hypocrisy prevails there will never be peace. We might also bear in mind that Abhisit's pretext for snatching power was reconciliation, but all we have seen is more chaos. Far from being celebrated as the next Abe Lincoln, Abhisit is just as much focus of hatred as Thaksin is - both of them should withdraw from public life and give the country a chance to repair its broken democracy.

Restoring the public confidence in their right to elect their leaders is really what the Thai authorities should be concentrating on right now. Elections are pointless until the army and judiciary stop meddling with the result.

Like you often do, you started strong but drew the wrong conclusion. Mob rule did NOT replace the electoral system this time. The government that was in power at the beginning of this mess was not brought down by mob rule. (In fact, mob-rule did not replace any of the last governments either!)

What we are seeing is the beginning of holding governments responsible for the actions of their members and a reduction in corruption.

You suggest mob rule brought down Samak and Somchai and that just isn't true. Samak was brought down by a very minor bit of corruption but could have been put right back into the driver's seat. Had he not broken the law and then LIED about it he'd have been the PM until PPP was dissolved.

Somchai was taken down by the court when they finally ruled on an open and shut case of electoral fraud. This freed Newin up from his commitment to Thaksin's parties and the rest is history!

All this rationalising on Abhisit's claim to power is a well-worn party line that simply hasn't worked. Only Abhisit and his followers believe it - the rest of Thailand and the world see the facade for what it is: a pack of lies, whitewashed with censorship and propaganda. The problem is that Thai people aren't dumb, and have matured to the extent where they just don't accept flimsy excuses as to why their democratic voice was ignored - excuses that may have worked in the past but don't wash anymore, as is evidenced by all the ongoing chaos.

For Abhisit to declare victory, and to be portrayed as a reincarnation of Abe Lincoln while the country burns and is so horribly fractured is premature to say the least. It reminds me of when George W. Bush stood on the deck of that battleship, with the "Mission Accomplished" sign above his head.

Edited May 20, 2010 by clockworkorange