Thai Government Accuses Reds Over Huge Weapons Cache

[bermuda]

If these weapons belonged to the red shirts why were there not more soldiers killed when they cleared the protest area?

If the men in black opened up on the army when they cleared the area everyone, even the red shirt apologists,would be saying "So they did have weapons!"

But if they didn't open up on the soldiers there would be an army of red shirt apologists ready and waiting to explain away the damming evidence.

They didn't engage the soldiers as they were outnumbered. Better to run and fight hidden. Create more panics and confusions.

[BigBikeBKK]

If these weapons belonged to the red shirts why were there not more soldiers killed when they cleared the protest area?

If the men in black opened up on the army when they cleared the area everyone, even the red shirt apologists,would be saying "So they did have weapons!"

But if they didn't open up on the soldiers there would be an army of red shirt apologists ready and waiting to explain away the damming evidence.

How many soldiers were killed by red shirt terrorists? How many soldiers were wounded by red shirt terrorists? How many solders needed to die for you to admit the red shirts were armed and violent?

It's a credit to the Thai army that they didn't take more casualties. Now I understand why the Thai army put down this insurrection in such a slow and methodical way- surround, contain, pressure. Considering how well armed the terrorists were the army is to be congratulated on putting down this revolt without greater loss of life.

[luangtom]

Holy moly. looks like we have our very own Al-Quaeda. What's next, training camps? Suicide bombers? Truly scary.

If we all remember back in recent months, Seh Daeng said he was "training a People's Army". I guess there already were training-camps.....I suspect that these weapons were to be used as only a last resort and when the Red Shirt leaders that were left caved-in, no one was there to direct the People's Army and implement these weapons into the fray. It is a scary thought to think of what the consequences would have been, for both sides.

Edited May 22, 2010 by luangtom

[mrsouza]

Furthermore, I doubt burning down Central World represents an act of terrorism, irrespective of how bad their conduct has been.

That is simply foolish, I really hope you misspoke!

How about seizing an airport? Anyone arrested yet? Oh, forgot, they are the government now. At least the food and music was good...

Shirt colors are silly. I agree.

What I disagree about is that you're comparing that to absolute war and terrorism of natives by natives.

...thanks for some Chiang Mai red propaganda, but no one is buying it. Just watch the videos and listen to the leaders.

Propaganda? I don't take any sides in this conflict. I just pointed out the obvious, slight difference there.

[MILT]

I find it convenient that all these weapons of mass destruction were found.

Has anyone wondered why they were not used?

Smells a bit fishy.

You're right it does smell fishy.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdiQGgFndS4

After watching this video, I think the reds were put at gun point by the military to make little boys light the ..what do you call these things anyways?

Yes very fishy instead

/sarcasm

I watched the video. I didn't see anything like you have described. I watched several times I didn't see what you think you saw

[enginerevision]

Furthermore, I doubt burning down Central World represents an act of terrorism, irrespective of how bad their conduct has been.

That is simply foolish, I really hope you misspoke!

How about seizing an airport? Anyone arrested yet? Oh, forgot, they are the government now. At least the food and music was good...

Shirt colors are silly. I agree.

What I disagree about is that you're comparing that to absolute war and terrorism of natives by natives.

...thanks for some Chiang Mai red propaganda, but no one is buying it. Just watch the videos and listen to the leaders.

Yellows where so peacefull Sondhi is lucky he's still alive yo !

[rogera]

I find it convenient that all these weapons of mass destruction were found.

Has anyone wondered why they were not used?

Smells a bit fishy.

Yes, there is a possibilitiy that the weapons were planted in order to give army and police the moral high ground.

Funny you'd say that. On of the red leaders said a few days ago "you'll see, when they move in they will 'plant and 'discover' weapons and bombs". Master of suggestion, insinuations and obfuscation these guys. It ensured there are lots of people and not only reds who wonder, wonder. Americans don't wonder, they know their government can't be trusted :-)

A classic case of disinformation at which the red shirts have proved to be masters

[rubl]

I find it convenient that all these weapons of mass destruction were found.

Has anyone wondered why they were not used?

Smells a bit fishy.

They were used- haven't you seen the videos and pictures of armed red shirts and "black" shirts firing on soldiers, journalists and civilians? What a relief that Abhisit finally cracked down on these terrorists. Peaceful protest? Yeah right!

So basically you'r supporting a murderer?

Muderer. harsh words, my dear fellow. Would you use the same on K. Thaksin?

[XAR]

For everyone's amazement and incredulity -

Well the video is pretty straightforward. Those that still support this "peaceful demonstration" are either weak minded and don't fully grasp the violent leaders manipulating the people or are spouting off BS rhetoric and fully support the terrorist leaders behind the red shirt movement. Please do not reply unless you have watched the video. Then, please comment on how the speakers who fomented the burning and destruction of these Thai properties, hospital and private homes are acting as anything other than armed insurrectionists. Bet you can't do that.

[Netfan]

Furthermore, I doubt burning down Central World represents an act of terrorism, irrespective of how bad their conduct has been.

That is simply foolish, I really hope you misspoke!

How about seizing an airport? Anyone arrested yet? Oh, forgot, they are the government now. At least the food and music was good...

Let's see, how do describe your post - uninformed? wrong? stupid? Another moron excusing arson and looting with the old "yellows were at the airport". There is one person who spoke at the airport in the govt- and he has proved himself to be incompetent, most anti-reds will agree with that one. And that seems a big difference between the anti-reds and the red apologists- the anti-reds will criticize the govt, but the red apologists / cheerleaders refuse to criticize the reds, no matter how disgusting the red tactics. i guess amsterdam / thaksin won't pay anyone who wobbles off the script.

btw, small point- THE PAD LEADERS WERE ARRESTED. they turned themselves in. They are awaiting a court date. Just like the red leaders were for last April. Only the PAD leaders didn't go out and encourage a mob to burn down Bangkok. And they didn't flee the country. For the 400th time - the airport seizure was stupid. It pales in comparison to the damage done to Thailand by the reds over the past 2 months.

[Arjay]

Suthep is a liar same as George Bush

Maybe the reds had mass destruction weapons too...

April 10 video shows soldiers hit with M-79 carriying only batons and shields. Wake up to the ruthless evil of Thaksin!!!

[mmushr00m]

Watching TV right now.

The Govt is showing the weapons cache to a bunch of foreign military brass, I can even see a canadian soldier!!! wow... I know there are RCMP in Thailand, didnt know the CF was here as well.

[rubl]

many removed

Propaganda? I don't take any sides in this conflict. I just pointed out the obvious, slight difference there.

somehow the obvious always needs to be pointed out!

[oldgeezer]

My apologies to the forum member who associated the Asian Times with Sondhi. After more research, I see I need to clarify my accusations.

Sondhi was indeed one of the founders of the Asian Times. The newspaper however, folded 12 years ago even before his problems with Mr. T.

It was taken over by former employees, is published in Hong Kong and has an extensive British staff. A detailed reading of its articles will demonstrate a lack of bias in their articles, the comments on Thailand being a small part of their content.

I must say however, I believe an offhand comment trying to tie Sondhi to the article was disingenous at best.

And I do not consider Sondhi any more legitimate than the red shirt leaders.

Suppose you geniuses advise all of the factions how you would stop the vote buying and corruption both at the national and village levels. That might actually be helpful.

[moetownblues]

Reds, reds, reds, while the Yellows are being kissed by angels and floating above the earth as gods and saviours of all man kind???????????????

[Arjay]

Unarmed Reds, Amnesty International decrying the treatment of the poor innocents - BS, pure BS. Armed militants who should be treated as enemy combatants, if shown to have participated in a violent way.

The following are two excerpts form an article in the AsiaTimesonlone.com

Quote

Fog of war

The government has said it aims to separate ''terrorists'' from the ordinary protesters, while some red shirts have thanked the anonymous black-clad assailants for coming to their defense against state security forces. Therdpoum, a former member of parliament under Thaksin's original Thai Rak Thai party, says there has been obfuscation and propaganda on both sides of the conflict.

"The people who are the real planners, not the people up on stage making protest speeches, these people probably keep a very low profile, but they must calculate that aggression is vital," he said. "Aggression paralyzes and divides opponents. This is what we were taught, this is how a smaller force can defeat overwhelming power. The message was: divide and conquer."

Whether the UDD's shadowy armed wing consists of mafia thugs, unemployed irregulars or disaffected regular soldiers, they must be capable of ruthless and focused violence, he said.

Therdpoum, born in humble circumstances in northeastern Thailand, was a hotel union organizer who fled to the communist underground in 1975 to oppose a brutal right wing government. Many hundreds of the country's most energetic students and intellectuals did the same. Most, like Therdpoum, later renounced the ideology.

His five-year odyssey with the Communist Party of Thailand (CPT) included a three-month period in Hanoi in the heady period following the unification of Vietnam under communist rule. There, Therdpoum and a handful of hand-picked Thai activists, like prominent student leader Seksan Prasertkun, as well as current UDD leaders Weng Tochirakan and Jaran Dittapichai, were drilled in Maoist revolutionary theory.

The five tactics they learned for unseating a government included: divide your enemies; form a united front; use provocative violence; secure the loyalty of people inside the ruling regime; and, finally, win over the army.

"That is what we have seen. The government people have been quarrelling about what to do. Some senior figures have a divided loyalty. The army and the police cannot move. Provocative violence has been very successful," said Therdpoum, referring to the UDD's campaign to topple Abhisit's government.

"The tactic is to keep saying that you are a peace-loving people. The many factions folded into the united front [uDD] organization are not told what the real strategy is because they might not agree and they might not act their part convincingly," he added.

A generation ago, the eager young communists in Thailand's underground movement, many of whom now play major roles on Thailand's political stage, were told that propaganda should be blunt, simple and repeated incessantly to be effective. The UDD has similarly shunned hard policy debates in favor of simple credos of justice denied and the hypocrisy of elites.

"The red shirt people have been told over and over that greedy people in authority have denied them justice and their fair share. They have been pumped full of toy-town leftism and told to hate every institution that has held this country together. I worry that the bitterness and hatred produced by this propaganda now runs so deep it will cause tension and problems for a long time," Therdpoum said.

"Many of them are now absolutely convinced that Thaksin was the best leader in Thai history, that he was a kind and generous man who holds the solution to all their problems. They don't need a program - they just need a new Thai state with Thaksin in charge. It has become very emotional - as it was designed to be," he added.

Unquote

Quote

Ignorance over knowledge

Other observers believe that the anti-Thaksin, yellow-garbed People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) protest group that occupied Government House for several weeks and closed down Bangkok's airports for 10 days in 2008 helped to show the UDD how effective determined and prolonged protests could be. To be sure, there were violent moments during the PAD's many protests, launched first to remove Thaksin and later his proxy governments, but not to the extent of the current shadowy campaign of bombings and shootings.

The red shirts consist of many passive supporters, many active ones and, now, a hand-picked core of "professional revolutionaries" chosen for their loyalty and street smarts, according to Therdpoum. Behind them are many "deep secrets and hidden messages" that are revealed to only a privileged few in the movement, while an even smaller number know the entire strategy, he claimed.

"Old communists know that when it comes to revolution, ignorance is much more powerful than knowledge," Therdpoum said.

It is thus ironic that more former communists are currently on side with the royalist PAD than the supposedly pro-poor UDD, which is simultaneously striving to restore the billionaire Thaksin's wealth and power. So, too, is the fact that while the UDD has called with revolutionary zeal for a new political order, the Thaksin-aligned Puea Thai party that will contest the next elections is packed with old-style and corruption-tainted patronage politicians.

Therdpoum believes that the UDD's sincere left-wing members are using Thaksin and anticipate the opportunity to eventually dump his personal agenda in favor of the establishment of a more socialist society. Some of the former communists who took up arms and fled into the jungle in the 1970s and 1980s and were once in Thaksin's inner circle include Prommin Lertsuridej, Phumtham Wechayachai, Sutham Saengprathum, Phinit Jarusombat, Adisorn Piangket and Kriangkamon Laohapairot.

Its unclear how many of those former communists are now active from behind-the-scenes in the UDD's planning and strategy. Some media have recently published photographs of the UDD's three main stage leaders, Veera Musigapong, Natthawut Saikua and Jatuporn Prompan, with the exiled Thaksin in what appear to be planning sessions leading up to the current protests. It is debatable, however, how much real power they wield over broad strategy and tactics; Therdpoum, for one, discounts them as "showmen".

UDD organizer Jaran Dittapichai told this correspondent that the protest group had adopted "Mao Zedong's method of thinking" and some of his techniques, including the establishment of a united front. "I was a communist and several leaders were former communists ... but the red shirt people don't like communism or socialism. We use his principles to build up our front and to work with people who are not red shirts, but who are fighting for democracy like us."

He, like other UDD leaders, has consistently denied that the group is behind the mysterious bombing campaign that has coincided with its protest activities. "There is no third hand. There is only the first hand and the second hand ... the government side and our people," Jaran said.

"Before we started we discussed the [potential] problem of the third hand and who they might be. We were worried that someone might throw a bomb at us or shoot at us. We still have good luck - no one comes to throw a bomb [at us]."

Unquote

This says it all really. Thaksin was basically financing a communist-led revolution. Now we know why the red shirts chose red as their colour.

I think the news coming out now provides overwhelming evidence of a very serious communist plot to overthrow the monarchy and the state as it is today and to turn Thailand into a communist state. Thaksin and his baggage would probably have been dumped.

Given the mounting evidence, Thaksin and the red shirt leaders should deserve the death sentence for their actions. The probable outcome is very likely to be life sentences, given the current government's ideas on capital punishment.

Let the flames from pro-red contributors begin!!! Your responses will be seen for what they are. Given all the evidence to the contrary, they will seem to be defending the indefensible.

I salute you! You are absoultely correct in your hypothesis. So sad but, TRUE!!!!

[atyclb]

It is very suspect that after a couple of days the government has a show for the press and other governments. Not having any press with them when they "found" this stuff (there were some willing I am sure) is just too much. The fact that a bunch of this stuff was all in the car park is also at best weird. I am not a red supporter but this smells bad. Why wasn't Pornthip w/her gt200 there when they let the people out of the temple?

I also have to think if ppl knew these things were there, they would have used them. Instead of just shooting firecrackers and bottle rockets.

[blind]

I have eyes, but cannot see.

[/blind]

I know you are blind, and I am like you and everyone else I have and assho!e and an opinion. I think blindness can be a strength instead of a handicap btw so there is some hope for us.

Again have you read about the gt200? they could have identified anyone walking past them who had contact with explosive compounds (for something like the last 2 months). They didn't use it? Why? They let bombers go then. There was no transpanecy with the finds. I just don't buy it. You can feel free to.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/8481774.stm

GT200 is worthless. Thats a good reason to not use it. I see posts/complaints about Thai poor analytical skills and poor educational system, yet there is no lack of the very same lack of analytical and or research skills among westerners on these forums.

[rubl]

- deleted some -

Suppose you geniuses advise all of the factions how you would stop the vote buying and corruption both at the national and village levels. That might actually be helpful.

As farang I'm not going to offer any advise, apart from 'start talking'. Please keep in mind one of the Universal Rights: the right to make your own mistakes, rather than learn from others'

[lounger]

I find it convenient that all these weapons of mass destruction were found.

Has anyone wondered why they were not used?

Smells a bit fishy.

Not used - the terrorists fired over 100 grenades the past 2 months. perhaps you have not been paying attention...

The inevitable court case will match finger prints DNA etc to the culprits wont it????????????

[enginerevision]

I find it convenient that all these weapons of mass destruction were found.

Has anyone wondered why they were not used?

Smells a bit fishy.

They were used- haven't you seen the videos and pictures of armed red shirts and "black" shirts firing on soldiers, journalists and civilians? What a relief that Abhisit finally cracked down on these terrorists. Peaceful protest? Yeah right!

So basically you'r supporting a murderer?

Muderer. harsh words, my dear fellow. Would you use the same on K. Thaksin?

85 " official deaths " and over 1800 wounded I call murderer. I believe his nickname was " Mr.Clean and Mr.Polite " ?

[isanb]

If these weapons belonged to the red shirts why were there not more soldiers killed when they cleared the protest area?

If the men in black opened up on the army when they cleared the area everyone, even the red shirt apologists,would be saying "So they did have weapons!"

But if they didn't open up on the soldiers there would be an army of red shirt apologists ready and waiting to explain away the damming evidence.

They didn't engage the soldiers as they were outnumbered. Better to run and fight hidden. Create more panics and confusions.

and how do they fight if they leave the weapons behind them ?

[mrsouza]

Furthermore, I doubt burning down Central World represents an act of terrorism, irrespective of how bad their conduct has been.

That is simply foolish, I really hope you misspoke!

How about seizing an airport? Anyone arrested yet? Oh, forgot, they are the government now. At least the food and music was good...

Let's see, how do describe your post - uninformed? wrong? stupid? Another moron excusing arson and looting with the old "yellows were at the airport". There is one person who spoke at the airport in the govt- and he has proved himself to be incompetent, most anti-reds will agree with that one. And that seems a big difference between the anti-reds and the red apologists- the anti-reds will criticize the govt, but the red apologists / cheerleaders refuse to criticize the reds, no matter how disgusting the red tactics. i guess amsterdam / thaksin won't pay anyone who wobbles off the script.

btw, small point- THE PAD LEADERS WERE ARRESTED. they turned themselves in. They are awaiting a court date. Just like the red leaders were for last April. Only the PAD leaders didn't go out and encourage a mob to burn down Bangkok. And they didn't flee the country. For the 400th time - the airport seizure was stupid. It pales in comparison to the damage done to Thailand by the reds over the past 2 months.

I did not excuse or apologize for anything and I do not take sides in this, because of a simple reason. If you ever seen a turf war in Thailand you would know how it plays out. If one corrupt party is trying to steal from the other corrupt party, does it make one of them right? It's been two years, and as far as I know, and Sondhi is still walking as a free man, despite the fact that there is a warrant for his arrest, or maybe it has been revoked? I honestly can't keep track anymore. Not only for the airport thing, but for the 100+ something bankruptcies and embezzlements he is accused of. Anyway, another story all together.

My point was, if one side is allowed to have bad apples and get away with it, why can't the other? Is that fair and square? I think we both agree all guilty parties, no matter what color, should stand equal in front of the law. As it's supposed to be.

If you insist that the legal system in Thailand is untouchable, I rest my case.

[Arjay]

I find it convenient that all these weapons of mass destruction were found.

Has anyone wondered why they were not used?

Smells a bit fishy.

Not used - the terrorists fired over 100 grenades the past 2 months. perhaps you have not been paying attention...

Not exactly a lot of dead soldiers are there ??

Either the reds were lousy marksmen or most of them were not using firearms.

Which is it ??

April 10, approx 200 army injured, 600 civilians.

Who is doing most of the shooting ??

Presumably next will be the announcement of the red's intention to use portaloos as chemical weapons..................

ph

Fool Red/Black shirts shot and killed innocents to create "CONFUSION". This was all planned to discredit and frame an overly cautious and sensitive government. MORON!

[bartlaz]

I find it convenient that all these weapons of mass destruction were found.

Has anyone wondered why they were not used?

Smells a bit fishy.

for me too

[EarthAlien]

Unarmed Reds, Amnesty International decrying the treatment of the poor innocents - BS, pure BS. Armed militants who should be treated as enemy combatants, if shown to have participated in a violent way.

Amnesty International are a total disgrace.

Trashing their reputation.

The last two years (and we are not just talking about Thailand here) have been an embarrassment.

Agreed. One would expect far greater diligence and objectivity from AI. This undermines previously hard earned credibility. I pity any really genuine future AI candidacy cases that the AI might present because after this how could their pleas be taken seriously?

This is a major self shooting in the foot incident by AI. Very disappointing indeed!

[BSJ]

Thai Government Accuses Reds Over Huge Weapons Cache

If that's the items in the photo in post 2 it's hardly a huge cache!

[hammered]

Very very damning stuff in the press conference and so many foreign reps. No amount of Amsterdam inspired web traffic is going to disppear this

Red leaders and movement is now utterly diuscredited. Shame for those with a real grievance who joined it but they really need to find other leaders and other ways and a new movement.

[enginerevision]

Suppose you geniuses advise all of the factions how you would stop the vote buying and corruption both at the national and village levels. That might actually be helpful.

Eliminate all corrupt leaders and business man? Same like the army sniped seh daeng......

[Netfan]

Reds, reds, reds, while the Yellows are being kissed by angels and floating above the earth as gods and saviours of all man kind???????????????

Yes, the poor mistreated, peace loving, unfairly maligned, unfairly labeled violent, reasonable, democratic, reds.

They brought it all on themselves. And they were stupid enough to leave all this evidence. Lucky they have defenders who are blind, bought and willing to go down in flames on the internet.

[JamDown]

If these weapons belonged to the red shirts why were there not more soldiers killed when they cleared the protest area?

Because the cowardly and poorly trained "khwai daeng" ran so fast when the Armoured Personnel Carrier's and the real army showed up, they did not have time to trigger the weapons.

If anyone thinks the "khwai daeng" did not have weapons, they should have witnessed what I saw and heard on Rama IV Road after the "khwai daeng" leaders surrendered. Do you "khwai daeng" apologists believe the Metropolitan Electricity Authority (MEA) building on Rama IV Road spontaneously combusted? How about the attempts on the Thai Stock Market library building and the Queen Sirikit Convention Center on Ratchadapisek Road? Did the Bangkok Bank Branch on Rama IV Road also spontaneously combust? At the Maleenont Building housing the Channel 3 TV station, where did those 20 or so grenades that were used in an attempt to burn down that building come from?

Please one of you 'khwai daeng" supporters please explain to me how attacking these and other buildings helps you achieve democracy? How can anyone in their right minds believe these are the actions of peaceful protesters?

The government and the army have acted cautiously and prudently, I have watched them clearing the Rama IV Road, and they are using Bomb sniffing dogs and have found incendiary devices hidden among the tyres stacked on Rama IV Road. Do you think the army and the government stacked those tyres? Do you think the army and the government planted those incendiary devices?

You "khwai daeng" supporters and apologists should collectively have your ass**s kicked, and kicked hard. You should have your meager assets seized to help pay for the damage the "khwai daeng" caused in Bangkok. Also, if I ever find that bitch Khun Prateep Ungsongtham, I would personally like to break her jaw for inciting so many people to riot in the Rama IV Road area, I hold her personally responsible for the damage on Rama IV Road and for causing so much terror to people in the Klong Toei area.

I had no real opinions one way or the other regarding Thai politics prior to this whole disgusting display by the "khwai daeng", but I do hope the Thai PM Abhisit Vejjajiva continues to play a major role in SE Asian politics. This man has demonstrated the patience of "Job", he allowed the "khwai daeng" to hang themselves with their own rhetoric, it seems he rejected many options presented to him out of concern for all Thai citizens, even the 'khwai daeng". He has been tested like no other leader in the region and I think he has come out of this with more respect worldwide. Imagine trying to make an Oxford education seem like a liability, Thailand should be lucky they have such an intelligent individual as their PM. Now if the "khwai daeng" supporters in government could just use his example and show concern for all Thai citizens, instead of the unreasonable and ludicrous desires of one Thai / Montenegrin family, this country could actually prosper and benefit all its citizens.