Building Another Pc

[NanLaew]

The last PC I built was probably about 10 years ago when P4 and IDE drives were the bees knees and USB 2.0 was new and SATA cost a lot extra. I guess I put together about 5 or 6 of them over a few years, some with AMD CPU's a once a 64-bit beast. I enjoyed it at the time but haven't bothered much since.

Now I want to put together a simple, small-footprint PC for the home and seeking some advice from those who know what's on the local market these days. I hope some can contribute their practical opinions and help out here as I want to do it fairly quickly and not mess about with selecting the bits from scratch. There's a few caveats here so I will list them.

1] I am using a Gview 'ITX Cola' case so the mobo would need to be miniATX.

2] I have Asus brand loyalty so it's their mobo I need.

3] Undecided on the CPU; need speed but I am not a gamer.

4] Not a gamer so no need for high-end RAM and VGA.

5] By the same token, it needs enough RAM and video memory not to bog down when multitasking

6] I guess Blu-Ray is the current top-of-the-range DVD media so need DVD burner that handles that. Or do I?

7] I reckon 500Gb is large enough for a HD but what else is available? SATA must be standard by now?

8] Wi-fi & bluetooth ready/installed; the home has all that.

9] This will have Windows 7 loaded but I may dual-boot with Ubuntu

Thanks for the time anyone takes recommending hardware here. I want this to be up and running quickly before I head off on my next overseas trip.

[garyh]

Intel cpu's run cooler and use less power than amd.

[harrry]

If you want blueray you will need a reasonable graphichs card and processor and memory otherwise you may get stop pstart performance.

[Samuian]

check BBC click online - thought they had something on blue ray that it didn't really come up to expectations..

so maybe it's not worth spending the money on it - yet..

[jsnho]

from the way you want to build a pc is abit confusing. maybe as you said, you have not build a pc for 10yr.

just to give u some ideas and correction for u.

if you are rebuilding those pc. i will not recommmend you to do so as the psu might not support the current mobo. secondly the mobo now a day come in atx, (matx, uATX or micro-atx) but not mini atx (which is one of the smallest, expensive and might be hard to find in thailand area and normally only big manufacturer e.g hp, acer, msi, asus, mass produces for their own brand set not diy.

blu-ray is not a dvd format, althought blu-ray player can read dvd format. to get a blu-ray burner for a pc is very expensive. cost about 8000baht onward. i dont think you will even bother to install one. (it's still consider as high end and low production device which make it more costly) well, price will drop in a few year time. when manufacturer earn enough, (pioneer created a blu-ray that can support up to 500gb on 20x layer) currently outside selling only 25gb or 50gb dual layer

dvd burner is enough for your normal pc. (recommend cheap and gd samsung 22x write master dvd burner dual layer) consider fastest currently on market

Intel is recommended for your processor and running on either 775 socket (dual core/c2d/quadcore) or 1156 socket (i3,i5,i7) but for you. dual core/c2d/i3/i5 will be sufficient (try not to get dual core/core dual or i3 as they are consider the low end for now, so it's best to get c2d and i5 if $ permit)

mobo you can choose G33 onward for dc/c2d and H55 or P55 for (i3/i5) or any cheap recommendation from your selected dealer. (as you will using Asus, there's a limitation, you might want to choose MSI. also one of the top brand in DIY PC / Gaming industries. remember mobo doesn't really make a very big different if you are not using for high end spec, so any normal spec will do)

hdd will be sata 2(standard for now), 500gb to 1tb. anyway you can always upgrade it later on when the price drop or get a external hdd. try not to store too much unwanted stuff in your main hdd, try to partition it. (please ask for warranty status, range from min of 3yr(samsung/hitachi) to 5yr(seagate/wd)

graphic will be min of 256mb nvidia 9500GT up. (more long lasting than ati) 9500GT/9600GT 512mb/1GB is recommended to prevent laggy.

2gb is basic and 4gb is normal. DDR 2 / DDR 3 (depending on board you are using)

for wifi build in (pci is possible with external antenna but you can also use wifi USB doogle for cheaper solution)

for bluetooth build in(i will recommend you to get a BT doogle if not you will need additional USB expansion slot with build in USB (F) port so you can plug in your usb bluetooth doogle inside) which cost much and might not be able to do so because you are using mini atx. or there might also be restriction if you are install graphic card which is not low profile type. (as i have not seen your casing size)

i'm a certify PC builder / SI with my owned company in Singapore, althought now i'm in bangkok for new business setup.

hope you enjoy building it. if you need help you can give me a pm.

[BritTim]

Most of the important points have been covered by jsnho. Here are two additional considerations.

A huge improvement in perceived performance is achieved if you use a good solid state disk as your system drive. This adds about 5,000 baht to the cost of your build, but it is worth it unless you are counting pennies. Consider a 30 GB OCZ Vertex SSD and pair it with a regular harddisk. Regular harddisks in sizes up to 2 TB (2000 GB) have become cheap.

For some components, be careful if you are going to be dual booting with Linux. In particular, research the level of support for your chosen graphics card, Wi-Fi and bluetooth. Installing Ubuntu is quick and painless as long as you have well supported hardware, but you will need a Linux hacker's help if you depart from a well trodden path.

Have fun!

[tangcoral]

What is your budget? Something in the range your looking at can be had for 12,000-14,000 and something a bit nicer maybe 15,000-20,000

[YoghurtLX]

Check out at www.jib.co.th/

They have a branch at Pantip Plaza and some other places too.

At least you can check parts you need and see how much you have to pay.

[klikster]

Most of the important points have been covered by jsnho. Here are two additional considerations.

A huge improvement in perceived performance is achieved if you use a good solid state disk as your system drive.

Have you considered the new drive 2.5" (Seagate ?) that mixes SSD and platters .. 500gb for around US$ 150. Any opinions?

[TerraPosse]

Most of the important points have been covered by jsnho. Here are two additional considerations.

A huge improvement in perceived performance is achieved if you use a good solid state disk as your system drive.

Have you considered the new drive 2.5" (Seagate ?) that mixes SSD and platters .. 500gb for around US$ 150. Any opinions?

Good call.  Here is a review at AnandTech for the Seagate Hybrid Drive.  However, since it's brand-spanking I doubt it will be available in Thailand (even though it may well be manufactured there).

Good luck and have fun. 

[welo]

Haven't built a PC in years either, but did a lot of reading on power consumption recently. Since you don't want to go crazy on CPU and GPU be sure you choose a reasonably sized PSU - when choosing CPU and GPU wisely 300W should be enough. Low power consumption also means less heat dissipation - surely a good thing in Thailand if you don't have aircon 24 hours - you will also save on electric costs which will not make you rich in low-cost Thailand but could still add up over the years.

Bigger PSUs are not only more expensive but are also designed to be efficient at higher watt levels. Of course running a PSU on the limits is a bad idea either so you have to do a bit of research and maths, check this article here and here to get an idea of system power consumption.

Don't go cheap on the PSU no matter what wattage otherwise your system stability might suffer. Maybe others can recommend specific brands. There is a 80plus certification label (80% efficiency). High quality PSUs will sometimes deliver good efficiency at the whole load spectrum.

welo

[siamect]

Most of the important points have been covered by jsnho. Here are two additional considerations.

A huge improvement in perceived performance is achieved if you use a good solid state disk as your system drive.

Have you considered the new drive 2.5" (Seagate ?) that mixes SSD and platters .. 500gb for around US$ 150. Any opinions?

This particular device would fit my Laptop... I think that's where this particular drive belongs and I think this kind of drives will be standard in all Laptops if it is not already happening.

It is quite clear that SSD or hybrid disks are real performance boosters especially for web servers, SQL servers where you access the same data over and over. On the other hand a decent OS will buffer quite efficiently unless you are low on RAM. So you have to compare the price/performance of you particular application running hybrid or ssd drive compared to spending the same amount on a huge RAM (make sure you OS can use it).

Somebody said that the bandwidth of a rotating device has improved only 1.75 during 1996-2008 and the processor capacity 195 times during the same period... Sounds a little too little with 1.75 for rotating devices but the company saying this were selling hybrid drives...

It anyway points to the importance of quick disk access and bandwidth.

Martin

[dave_boo]

I'm going to buck the trend and go with a suggestion that going to probably catch some flack; the ASRock H55M-LE paired with the most expensive i5 processor you can afford. This motherboard is made by ASUS, much the same way Toyotas are "made by" Lexus. Built in connections galore, the only thing I'd fault it for was lack of an HDMI connector (and possibly the VIA sound system under Linux). The Intel graphics will get you along unless you're actually planning on watching Blu-Ray. I also like the fact tha you can still slot your PCI cards in (up to two) which mobo manufacturers have been taking away...

RAM recommendation is the best value you can find at 4 GB (I love Corsair and in the States I usually buy Patriot which is a bit slower but much cheaper). More than that isn't really utilised unless you're running a WHOLE bunch of programmes at one time and less than that and you'll feel it in Windows.

Blu-Ray is currently the optical storage media with the greatest density on the market (most storage place on cd/dvd style media). However, it is much better (IMHO) to stick with external hard drives and use those for back up purposes.

Actually 1 Terabyte has become the best $/space ratio for hard drives. However, as others have mentioned, installing your Operating System(s) onto an SSD will create an appreciable uptick in your computers performance. Oh, and good luck trying to find a PATA drive of any size!

I haven't run across a Bluetooth adapter that hasn't been compatible under Linux out there, but knowing my luck now that I've said that you'd have the one that doesn't! I wouldn't worry too much about Graphics, NVIDIA releases their own binary and Intel is supported natively. WIFI can be tricky, but easily sorted out. As mentioned earlier, the sound issues give me the most pause, but apparently it was commited in the 2.6.33 kernel (released on 24 FEB 10 and not available from Ubuntu's stable repository yet...although you can add it!).

If you do go with a build, I'm going to be back in LOS the first week of June and would be glad to give you a hand getting Linux installed...for the price of a meal of course (I have to keep my cuddly teddy bear good looks up somehow<_<).

[jsnho]

update for martin (siamect), PATA was running at 150mb up 350mb and 480mb, ranging 5200rpm, 5600rpm and 7200rpm. but that was rather to their own detail and might not be true. since sata was out it's going at 1.5gb per sec and sata 2 was going full speed at 3gb p/s transfer rate. but i don't see much different because it's still running at 7200rpm. compare to scsi 10000rpm. which mean transfer rate is even higher and faster

so i can say it's more than 1.75time. maybe 10x? and yes processor are increase 100x time more than hdd, reason? they need more multitasking and ram rather than storage performance which is only about 10% of total performance.

update: please buy lifetime warranty ram. which most brands is. especially Kingston, Corsair and Patriot. worldwide recommended.

SSD is expensive and althought it's useful but will not be recommended unless for high end, 5000baht onward for 30gb is like...i dont think he will want to waste such money. because i can get a 1TB onward hdd.

[Spoonman]

It is quite clear that SSD or hybrid disks are real performance boosters especially for web servers, SQL servers where you access the same data over and over. On the other hand a decent OS will buffer quite efficiently unless you are low on RAM. So you have to compare the price/performance of you particular application running hybrid or ssd drive compared to spending the same amount on a huge RAM (make sure you OS can use it).

My Pc consiststed of 80gb HDD for the OS (64 bit win7), 80gb HDD for programs (also had the page file here) and 4tb for storage, I have 8gb of ram installed.

My machine felt laggy, I did a fresh win7 install onto a 128gb Intel SSD (programs now live here as well), it is now blindingly quick, the expense of the SSD is worth every cent in my opinion.

[NanLaew]

The replies and advice is greatly appreciated. I only mentioned my priors as a PC builder so I wouldn't get total beginners advice and the info posted so far is just what I am looking for. This IS a newbuild; those P4 monsters are gathering dust in Houston!

The case I am using can be eyeballed here

The reason this case was selected is because the wife likes the pretty blue colour; I like the small footprint. It states it has a 550W p/s so that should handle what I am stuffing in there. It also lists several Intel CPU's;

Q6600 2.4 GHz

E8400 3.0 GHz

E7600 3.06 GHz

Are any of these relevant as who knows how long ago the web page was posted? I will stick with Intel since the consensus is they run cooler and this is a small form case.

I have a trip to the US coming up so I may get generic RAM (2Gb) locally for starters and bring back 4Gb of quality stuff (I like Corsair too) from there.

Thanks for the tips on Blue Ray... I doubt I will need it and the mention that Samsung burner is fastest available is noted, thanks.

Not sure if I need to get into SSD's yet although I would love to have one in the new laptop which is budgeted for next year when hopefully they will be higher capacity and cheaper. The case specs say there's a 5.25 slot and 2 x 3.5 slots so that could be something to play with.

I reckon the advice about USB dongles for wi-fi and Bluetooth will be taken on since slots will be few; I will definitely need to add a USB riser on the back if the mobo supports it (unless it has enough native sockets already). I have some BlueAnt dongles that they sent me several years ago when I was wingeing about being sold an already 'licensed' dongle by a third-party on the web. They use Bluesoleil s/w which was initially glitchy but the last version I used was really slick. I will need to check if they are A2DB compliant (or even still in business!)

With slots free, what do you recommend for a sound card? I missed that entirely in the OP. Just in case this machine graduates from the home office to the home theater. I liked Creative products in the US but is that valid for Thailand or is there something equivalent or better locally?

Forgot to mention but the 20000 baht budget being mentioned is quite OK.

Edited May 27, 2010 by NanLaew

[welo]

SSD is expensive and althought it's useful but will not be recommended unless for high end, 5000baht onward for 30gb is like...i dont think he will want to waste such money. because i can get a 1TB onward hdd.

I guess it depends. If you think about going for an i7-920 at 10.000,- THB I'd rather get the cheaper i5-750 for 5.000,- and take the SSD instead. Overall performance ('felt' performance) of the SSD system would be a lot better!

But you're right, in such a case we are probably not talking about a 20.000 THB PC anymore...

welo

[welo]

Q6600 2.4 GHz

E8400 3.0 GHz

E7600 3.06 GHz

The latest generation Core 2 CPUs (like the mentioned E7600 and E8400) do a good job on power consumption and heat dissipation. The Q6600 consumes about 40W more under load!

You might want to consider i5-6xx CPU though (has 2 cores as well). Here the price, average performance index, and system power consumption (idle-load) for selected Intel CPUs

THB Perf Watt

E7500: 3,840B | 79.6 | 113-148

E8400: 5,640B | 89.5 | 116-160

i5-650: 6,570B | 114.5 | 95-156

source prices: JIB

source specs: performance index system power comsumption

I guess for standard office use you won't notice a significant difference unless during performance intensive stuff such as video encoding or unzipping files etc.

Personally I'd go for either the E7x00 (good price, low power consumption) and maybe invest the 3000 THB somewhere else (add 2000B for an SSD? ), or get the i5 for the better performance. Not sure about costs for the MOBO though and the form factor issue.

Also be careful to pack the PC case you have chosen with too much stuff unless you have 24hrs aircon.

welo

[NanLaew]

Handy info on the processor. I just checked the i5 prices here versus the price in the US (newegg.com) and it's 20 bucks cheaper there so working on possibly getting the mobo/cpu bundle there and have my buddy bring it in.

Thanks chaps... this is great support!

Just to add it will be in the coolest room in the house!

Edited May 27, 2010 by NanLaew

[jsnho]

most of the intel processor are made in malaysia and some other western country, (i can't remember it well.)

as i mention in the earlier post, 9500GT up (just suit your casing) 512mb is gd (i'm using it to run mw2)

550w is enough for sure.

core2duo and i5 is recommmend same as i mention and i'm sure the casing can take in i5.

it's a mATX casing, so not a problem of adding additional USB expansion slot. althought nowaday the slot come with about 6 x usb 2.0 (back) and 2 x usb2.0 (front)

might be enough.

soundcard, i will get creative X-Fi (any model is gd). still the best. created in my homeland Singapore.

[ballbreaker]

it's 20 bucks cheaper there so working on possibly getting the mobo/cpu bundle there and have my buddy bring it in.

What's your plan if motherboard/cpu doesn't work when it arrives. Will it be worth the $20 you saved?

Have you looked at the Shuttle XPC line of barebones PC's. Footprint is slight bigger but great platform and rock solid. I aso think CPU cooling in XPC is much better than case you plan on buying. My unit (P4 2.4Ghz) runs in the hottest weather without problems and has been doing so for 7 years.

[welo]

Handy info on the processor. I just checked the i5 prices here versus the price in the US (newegg.com) and it's 20 bucks cheaper there so working on possibly getting the mobo/cpu bundle there and have my buddy bring it in.

Just checked the prices on the i3/5/7 boards (Socket 1156) - you'll have to add another 1x00THB that an i5 system will cost you more compared to a E7500 based system (at least at the shop where I checked the prices). That of course makes it slightly less attractive. Seems the ASROCK H55M (as already suggested by dave_boo) is one of the better priced boards.

The i5 has the graphics processor (GPU) integrated on the chip (in contrast to an integrated GPU on the motherboard) - of course 3D power is very very basic as always with Intel, but the combo is great for a (non-gaming) Media PC since it supports 1080p decoding (for watching HD movies) and it has enough power for everything else (Windows 7 Aero etc).

If you don't do serious 3D gaming I recommend going with the integrated GPU (lower price and heat).

Don't go with any i5 but stick to the i5-6xx model series (650, 660, 670, avoid the i5-661). The i5-750 draws considerably more under load (+50W!) - at least according to the comparison published by behardware.

Personally, I'd go with the cheapest (i5-650), don't chase the Ghz, it's hardly worth the money IMHO. Usually it is the new platform/system as a whole (that is the combination of faster CPU, RAM, chipset, harddrive, etc) which will give you the power boost. 0.1 or 0.2 Ghz will not be noticeable other than in benchmarks.

welo

Edited May 27, 2010 by welo

[siamect]

update for martin (siamect), PATA was running at 150mb up 350mb and 480mb, ranging 5200rpm, 5600rpm and 7200rpm. but that was rather to their own detail and might not be true. since sata was out it's going at 1.5gb per sec and sata 2 was going full speed at 3gb p/s transfer rate. but i don't see much different because it's still running at 7200rpm. compare to scsi 10000rpm. which mean transfer rate is even higher and faster

so i can say it's more than 1.75time. maybe 10x? and yes processor are increase 100x time more than hdd, reason? they need more multitasking and ram rather than storage performance which is only about 10% of total performance.

update: please buy lifetime warranty ram. which most brands is. especially Kingston, Corsair and Patriot. worldwide recommended.

SSD is expensive and althought it's useful but will not be recommended unless for high end, 5000baht onward for 30gb is like...i dont think he will want to waste such money. because i can get a 1TB onward hdd.

Thanks for the update...

As I said the thing was on display from some who had the reason to be biased... Don't take it too seriously...

I will "aggressively agree" with you when it comes to RAM, just fixed a dozen Git repos on my new home server that became corrupt because of a bad RAM of noname brand. Showed corrupt data around the 520MB range and up. Turned out to be a bad connection. I blame the RAM since the ASUS motherboard has quite ok connectors as far as I can understand.

Luckily the Git repos have a quite bulletproof consistency check so I found out quite early and Git is distributed so I could recover all of it. I still run consistency check of the repos everyday on that machine, you never know...

Martin

[garyh]

For what it is worth you could buy a new CORE i3 laptop with 4GB ram for around your budget if you shop around my son recently got an Acer like this and it really surprised me how it even plays games like MW2.

[NanLaew]

^ I don't need another laptop! Need something for the home base.

Anyway, bought the following:

ASUS P7H55D-M PRO mobo

Intel i5-650 cpu

Kingston 2Gb RAM (I may pick up 4Gb of Corsair RAM in the US)

WD 320Gb HD (the multimedia will be on the NAS drive so didn't need acres of space and will NOT bother with dual-boot Linux)

ASUS x24 DVD r/w

ASUS EN8400GS/512Mb vga

I didn't bother with a sound card as there's 8-channel audio on the mobo so no real need right now. Also invested in the add-on VGA just in case I want to do something more later.

The above included with the case that I bought earlier comes in at B16,800 so I think I will fork out for a legit version of Windows 7. Do they sell 7 with a 2-license option here? I think I saw that while in the US. That way I can do this machine and maybe something else like my dads PC at home.

[welo]

ASUS EN8400GS/512Mb vga

Good choice energy wise

2D Desktop use: 19W

3D Full Load: 32W

(for the 256MB card, source: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforc...er,2122-4.html)

I guess you didn't order from the US now, did you?

welo

[NanLaew]

^ My US trip (and my buddies visit) are both in limbo. But when I found myself in front of the ATM machine at Pantip, the point was moot!

Thanks for your advice btw, I pretty much stuck with what was recommended.

[Seismic]

regardless of earlier posts extolling the virtue of SSD as boot drive, here is my half pennyworth.

Forget SSD drives for at least 2 more years they are rediculously expensive and give you nothing more than a marginally faster boot time, better off getting a 300GB velociraptor as boot drive and for the same price a 1TB caviar green drive for everything else. The people who are recomending SSD are probably building fast gaming or video machines. Sure it will boot faster, but thats about it, or maybe they work for companies trying to sell you that 5 second faster boot.....

[JetsetBkk]

Any USB 3 ports on your MOBO?

[welo]

Hm. Seems the PRO version has neither eSATA nor USB 3.0. The ASUS P7H55D-M EVO has both.

Good advise but it seems too late.