Do You Have A 'plan B'?

[mauGR1]

I've not got plan A sorted yet.

Same here !

When i came to live in Thailand, i was warned big time that things could go pear shaped, i'm leaving after tomorrow for a holiday in the land of mafia & spaghetti, but i will keep an eye on TV 'cause i'm going to be back very soon.

Maybe is the rose-tinted glasses, or whatever, but i hope the marvellous "mai pen rai' attitude will triumph again.

[mogoso]

I can't remember what my plan B was, I'm actually up to about plan T. The only thing that scares me is that Plan Z is rapidly approaching, then what?

Why then you return to A, but actually it'll be plan A-1

If we hadda go my wife would make the decision, if I made it I'd go to Colombia. I love the cool weather in the mountains all year long, but still have the availability of tropical fruit. the language is no problem and cost of living isn't bad.

[MartinL]

I contacted the British Embassy a very short time ago on this subject, hoping for some useful information from them. As I've come to expect, their reply wasn't very helpful but you can read it for yourself in the attachment.

If_the_troubles_get_worse.pdf

If it came to decision time, I think I'd let my wife make the choice since she has sons who will probably give her grandchildren very soon, plus all the usual family members. I really can't imagine leaving without her nor can I imagine her wanting to leave all her family behind in a troubled country. Come to think of it, I wouldn't want to either - they're my family, too, after all - but the decision would rest with Jin. If she wanted to leave, we'd be on the road pretty sharpish.

Maybe it'll never happen but it's better to be aware of your options if it all goes tits up. Now I know that seeking help from the British Embassy would be a waste of time.

If_the_troubles_get_worse.pdf

Edited May 28, 2010 by MartinL

[dumball]

How could you possibly expect your government to do your dirty washing for you when you have made no preparations in any direction to help yourself and your (?) family , even though the problems that currently exist have been evident for quite some time ? Thailand has been a volitile country for a long time now, if not one powder-keg it is another ready to explode and disrupt the nation as a whole .

[Soutpeel]

I contacted the British Embassy a very short time ago on this subject, hoping for some useful information from them. As I've come to expect, their reply wasn't very helpful but you can read it for yourself in the attachment.

If_the_troubles_get_worse.pdf

If it came to decision time, I think I'd let my wife make the choice since she has sons who will probably give her grandchildren very soon, plus all the usual family members. I really can't imagine leaving without her nor can I imagine her wanting to leave all her family behind in a troubled country. Come to think of it, I wouldn't want to either - they're my family, too, after all - but the decision would rest with Jin. If she wanted to leave, we'd be on the road pretty sharpish.

Maybe it'll never happen but it's better to be aware of your options if it all goes tits up. Now I know that seeking help from the British Embassy would be a waste of time.

As pointed out in another post, if Thailand really went to sh*t our esteemed civil servants in the BE would have vacated the premises without telling anyone and would all be sitting at Raffles in Singapore drinking champagane cocktails and watching events unfolding on the Beep...

[phetaroi]

I had sent a private message to the OP, and he urged me to post it here. So here goes:

At the age of 60 I retired here just one year ago this week. I had every intention of living out my life here. I have a partner here that I have known for 17 years, and for the first 10 of the last 12 months, Thailand was living up to my expectation. As a former teacher and school administrator in the States, I had the ability to be here for 4-7 weeks at a time most years, and I don't think I was naive about Thailand. In fact, the first 10 months here were just about what I expected...no surprises. I knew that living in Thailand wasn't as easy as living in the States...and sometimes things are not just not easy, but are damned inconvenient. But that was okay. I actually usually enjoyed the challenge and could always look at a lot of other things that I truly enjoyed that more than balanced the scales to the positive.

Then when the red shirts moved to Ratchaprasong, I felt my world shrinking. I didn't feel as safe anymore -- something that had been one of the real plusses to living here...always feeling I could walk just anywhere and not be at any serious risk. As the protests grew, more and more I just stayed home out of fear that if the Skytrain and subway had to be shut down I might have a little trouble getting home at the end of the day. But, for the most part still went about my daily life...just a little less free.

When it became really clear that a crackdown was imminent, I really began staying home. My world shrunk a little more. I felt the need to stock up on food and water for us, and I'm glad I did, if only just to be on the safe side and relax about that.

And then on the day of the crackdown I had the same feeling I had the night of 9/11. I should mention that in the States I lived just 7 miles from the Pentagon and 4 miles from the CIA. Those were hellish days for us who lived there...always wondering what was next. On the day of the crackdown here on Soi 24, black billows of smoke poured down the klong twice...not sure what it was from. They said it was from the Tesco-Lotus on Rama IV...almost within walking distance...which was burning to the ground. Turned out it wasn't...probably just burning tires...but that was a scary feeling. No police or army to be seen anywhere here. Then the electricity went off...an ominous event...although surprisingly it came back on within the hour. Then one of my favorite places to hang out -- Central World -- was aflame. And there were warnings that the elite might be another target...and while we're hardly elite...who knows how the most vengeful red shirts see the condos here on Soi 24.

Life is a gamble, and I've decided to give up on this gamble and return to the States. Part of my thinking is that now, at age 60, and in relatively good health, I can start afresh and even in a new place (instead of returning to the Washington area, I'm going to settle in Colorado Springs, which was my second choice for retirement to begin with). Fortunately, I burned no bridges. I'm going back to the States financially sound and will buy a house and a car in a very short time. But my point is, I can still do that. What happens when I get older and not healthy? What happens if my blood pressure or heart condition worsen. I could be stuck here in a country that many people believe is entering a cycle of upheaval. And that would be a terrible feeling...to be stuck in a place on the brink of anarchy.

I know how you feel. I fully expected to live here until I die. But I want to die of natural causes. Not terrorism. And not of stress due to days like the crackdown day.

Leaving here is the hardest thing I've ever had to do. But this is not the Thailand I signed up for. And while I hope the old Thailand returns, I'm just not sure it ever will.

From 1987 until now, nothing has ever happened in Thailand that worried me as does the current situation. I was here days after the Suchinda coup-event ended. I was younger then, too, but that situation really didn't really bother me. I didn't feel threatened. Those who were at risk appeared to be those who were directly involved. Yesterday I was reading that they are worried about a possible wave of assassination attempts on political leaders and that the hard-core elements are moving "underground".

What worries me is this. Most of us love the "mai pben rai" attitude that used to be so prevalent. But I think, even before the riots, that MPR had changed a lot. In the old days I used to think way too much elicited a response of MPR (e.g., a foolish work place accident results in an amputation...MPR)...MPR was used way too much. But when I arrived here a year ago to live, it seemed like -- at least in terms of national politics...MPR no longer existed. There seemed to be a very angry polarization, and that is not a good sign. And now I have this feeling that two forces are going to be at work here that will result in more upheavals in the future. First, that the Thai tendency to think that things will simply work out (rather than engineering a solution) will result in not much being actually done to solve the issues (just as not much has really been done to solve the southern problem). Second, that what some see as a struggle will continue...to what extent, to be determined.

So for me, at my age, it's just too much and I'm leaving. I realize others have different tolerance levels. I'm one of the lucky ones...I'm leaving with my health and finances intact, and although getting restarted back in the States will still be a challenge, it's a challenge I can meet and then sit back and say, "Whew!"

One of my friends back home emailed me that it was a shame I ever came here to begin with. I responded to her that if I had a crystal ball, I probably wouldn't have come here in a way that indicated any intent of permanency. And fortunately, I saw it as a bit of a trial period, and maintained all of my legal connections back home. But I also told my friend that I think the things that people regret most, are the things they don't do. At least that's been true for me. Had I not given Thailand a try, I would have always regretted that. When I was young I wanted to live in Washington, D.C. I made it happen. When I approached retirement I decided on either Thailand or Colorado. Now I get to do both. The glass is still half full!

My best wishes to each of you in whichever way you react to the current events. I wish the best for you and for the Thai people. I shall miss them.

[Soutpeel]

Nice post and very balanced, but hope you know you have left yourself open to the Thai apologist brigade, who will be posting the "good riddence", "if you dont like it leave", well f*kc off" type posts....

Best of luck in your future plans

[philliphn]

Plan B Costa Rica.

Plan C Phillipines.

[needforspeed]

Jump on my bike with my GF and ride to Malaysia or Vietnam. Prefer to stay in Thailand, but i work overseas offshore, so can live anywhere without too much hassle. I would lose my deposit on the house i rent, but since i dont own any valuable property other than my Harley, it will be easy enough to move on.

If go Malaysia or Vietnam why take the GF

[mizzi39]

Nice post "phetaroi". GO with your gut. This is not a good time for expats to be passive. Emotions are hot and people are not thinking clearly. If some radical leader gets it into peoples heads that the foreigner along with the "elite" class is the cause for all of Thailand's woes then it would be just a matter of time before special "hit squids" are out on the streets looking for falangs to harass or bash, and I don't see any embassy being of any assistance. All one will get is the"I told you so" attitude. It could be your child next if he or she is "mixed", since they may not be considered "Thai" enough for the radical class, so they as well may be looked upon as "elites"

I am not ready to pack things up just yet, but my eyes are wide open. I am already living "plan A" and i explained my "plan B" in an earlier post. My immediate families safety comes first. Period.

Edited May 28, 2010 by mizzi39

[SomTumTiger]

Nice post and very balanced, but hope you know you have left yourself open to the Thai apologist brigade, who will be posting the "good riddence", "if you dont like it leave", well f*kc off" type posts....

Best of luck in your future plans

Good Riddance

If you don't like it leave

<deleted> off

[gotglue]

I've been here about 10 yrs now, and I honestly consider this place my home. I love it here with the wife and 2 kids. I would never consider leaving. I don't feel the need for a plan B. The only reason that I would leave Thailand, is if the Government forced me to.

[jaideeguy]

Sounds like gotglue [and others] are still on 'the honeymoon' that most of old timers have gone thru and now can look at LOS with eyes wide open and not be blinded by all the [superficial] smiles.

gotglue.....if you are going to wait until the govmt tells you to leave, you'll be way too late [or dead] because this govmt is not as quick [paranoid] as most overreacting western govmts. Just look at how they downplayed, hid and ignored other threats to the precious tourist $$. SARS, airport takeover, H1N1,.......the tsunami, they couldn't hide and hard to hide BKK burning. But they did mostly ignore the events in the provinces when they were burning city halls etc.

[gotglue]

@jaideeguy..I am, and have been for many years now, aware of the "situation" in this country. The recent events come as no surprise at all, and the burning, and rioting and the general mentallity of the protester is only expected. I'm not on the "honeymoon", christ, the novelty wore off years ago. There's cartloads here that really get my back up. But so what..This IS my home mate.

[jaideeguy]

It's been my home for the last 10+ yrs but I am beginning to see that things can [and do] change so fast here. This country and it's people are full of surprises and their politics are so fickle and memories so short that you can't anticipate the next move. LOS is still my plan A......but I am just starting to realize that it may be wise to have a plan B.....just in case.

That was the main intention of my OP.....to see if others out there have or are beginning to think of plan B.

The obvious is to return to the home country.....I didn't burn any bridges there and can say the same about any of the many places that I have lived. I just left because it seemed like the right time to go.........why suffer or put yourself and family at risk??

[carmine]

Nice post and very balanced, but hope you know you have left yourself open to the Thai apologist brigade, who will be posting the "good riddence", "if you dont like it leave", well f*kc off" type posts....

Best of luck in your future plans

Yes, a very well balanced post. I wish the person the best of luck.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

You guys are precious.

Especially Jack "The North is Enemy Territory" Dawson.

(certified)

Edited May 28, 2010 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Ulysses G.]

Sounds like gotglue [and others] are still on 'the honeymoon' that most of old timers have gone thru and now can look at LOS with eyes wide open and not be blinded by all the [superficial] smiles.

I hear what you are saying, but too many of the newer arrivals seem to think that Thailand is an Oriental Disneyland for cheapskates. It is not and never has been.

When I first moved here, I thought of Thailand as a somewhat dodgy country (as far as personal safety) with cheaper (local) food and rent and some other benefits that made living here worthwhile. It has not changed much as far as I am concerned.

There are plenty of old timers who love this country despite its many imperfections and don't really want to live anywhere else (unless things were to really spin out of control)

[jdinasia]

I've tried to figure out the best place to be out of work and homeless in the US - getting a job right now at my age would not be easy - but no place really appeals to me. I think that I will stay here if I can.

UG, you can come and stay @ my home in Oz. Not far from there is a musuem & I know one of the fellows that runs the show there. They are a bit short on old fossils, so finding a position for you would be no problem

I guess that I could work at the "Dunk the Old Geezer Tank" for a little change.

Poster-child for the Save the Whales NGO?

While I do acknowledge that things might get a bit dicey here in the future, I just don't see something like the fall of Saigon, or Year Zero for Cambodia. That being said. There is enough cash in the safe to make it out of the country and fly to the West all the time. There is money in accounts in 3 countries to carry me over for a few months. There are the credit cards. There are places to live in the US. Finally, there is a book to write that doesn't include crying about being caught for selling drugs and ending up in Bang Kwang

[gotglue]

Ulysses...ye you're bang mate (!)

[Ulysses G.]

Finally, there is a book to write that doesn't include crying about being caught for selling drugs and ending up in Bang Kwang

I'm not sure that 101 Reasons to Hate Thaksin by jdnasia will ever be a best seller.

Edited May 28, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[jdinasia]

Finally, there is a book to write that doesn't include crying about being caught for selling drugs and ending up in Bang Kwang

I'm not sure that 101 Reasons to Hate Thaksin by jdnasia will ever be a best seller.

Please don't be so deliberately insulting!

I can come up with WAY more than 101 reasons!

But really --- writing about what you know is important Having photographs you have taken yourself helps

[Paul123456]

An interesting thread to read.

I am in two minds -

1) Sometimes thinking like gotglue - this is my home, and maybe through good or bad I should just stick with it and make the most of it. Like gotglue said, there are many things here that annoy me, but also many great things and so much potential. It is where my family are from, it has been my home for the last 7 years. Maybe it is best to stay here and even in bad times, help see the country through to better times.

2) And sometimes my thinking, (and my wife's thinking too) are focused on making a Plan B. For a long time she has been concerned with the what happens after HM dies. Just recently I have started joining her concern. The recent events - they are very worrying. Maybe they will turn to nothing. Maybe things will get a bit bad here. But maybe the country will try to emulate Cambodia or Burma, even if not as extreme - that is worrying with a 2 year old daughter and a 14 year old daughter.

Where to go?

Cambodia?

Malaysian Borneo?

Back to Australia (to make money but with no intention of staying there)?

Indonesia?

Philippines???? (never been there)

Vietnam?

I don't know.

Certainly the contemplating a Plan B is happening much more frequently these days.

On a good note - I helped with the clean up of Bangkok. WOW! Thousands and thousands of people came out with a very positive attitude and put in a great effort to look after their country - very heart warming to see and be part of. So there is hope.

[gotglue]

Paul123456, HAS just made me think now....Ok plan B: Glock 30 45acp

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Sounds like gotglue [and others] are still on 'the honeymoon' that most of old timers have gone thru and now can look at LOS with eyes wide open and not be blinded by all the [superficial] smiles.

I hear what you are saying, but too many of the newer arrivals seem to think that Thailand is an Oriental Disneyland for cheapskates. It is not and never has been.

There are plenty of old timers who love this country despite its many imperfections and don't really want to live anywhere else (unless things were to really spin out of control)

Yup. I think the only people who really need a plan B are those who are bitter. (And there are MANY!) Probably they were bitter people before even coming to Thailand. Then when sobering up from the initial rush, they're then bitter at Thailand.

Yes, plan B, definitely plan B for those!

Can I just say that I only see many more GOOD developments than bad ones, developments that make Thailand MORE suitable to stay long term and to raise a family? Things are slowly but surely becoming less 'Third World', for lack of a better term. Some way still to go of course in terms of safety and human rights, but Thailand is getting there, in the usual 'two steps forward, one step back' kind of way.

Edited May 28, 2010 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Flatouthruthefog]

Sounds like gotglue [and others] are still on 'the honeymoon' that most of old timers have gone thru and now can look at LOS with eyes wide open and not be blinded by all the [superficial] smiles.

I hear what you are saying, but too many of the newer arrivals seem to think that Thailand is an Oriental Disneyland for cheapskates. It is not and never has been.

There are plenty of old timers who love this country despite its many imperfections and don't really want to live anywhere else (unless things were to really spin out of control)

Yup. I think the only people who really need a plan B are those who are bitter. (And there are MANY!) Probably they were bitter people before even coming to Thailand. Then when sobering up from the initial rush, they're then bitter at Thailand.

Yes, plan B, definitely plan B for those!

Can I just say that I only see many more GOOD developments than bad ones, developments that make Thailand MORE suitable to stay long term and to raise a family? Things are slowly but surely becoming less 'Third World', for lack of a better term. Some way still to go of course in terms of safety and human rights, but Thailand is getting there, in the usual 'two steps forward, one step back' kind of way.

Bang on the money, Whinnie!

My plan A:

Come to Thailand to stay (after several holiday 'recces'), specifically Chiang Mai.

Find a nice mature lady with no complications, after a trial period get fully married, bring in the cash for a house and car (in her name of course) and try for one offspring. Succeeded in all respects. Make this home. Stay.

Plan B?

See Plan A.

Thailand has given me so much. I trust in my awareness and common sense, in my adopted nation and my wedded Thai. And that's it.

[jaideeguy]

"Where to go?

Cambodia?

Malaysian Borneo?

Back to Australia (to make money but with no intention of staying there)?

Indonesia?

Philippines???? (never been there)

Vietnam?"

Having lived in the Phil for 7+ years and then moved here to LOS for it's political stability, infrastructure, safety and falang user friendliness that the Phil was lacking......i'm putting it back on the list at Plan B-5. Still have good contacts there, and am reconsidering.....IF.

Returning to the US would be a very last option.

[Xangsamhua]

I don't have a "plan B". If for whatever reason we no longer wish to live in Thailand, my wife and I would pack our few belongings and go back to Oz. That is not a "plan B"; it's the flip side of "plan A" (to live in Thailand until it seems a better idea not to).

If people are genuinely worried that civil disturbance could put them in real danger and with little time to evade it, then I would expect they would (i) be sure their passports, visas, etc are current, (ii) have readily accessible cash and, perhaps, some gold to carry with them, (iii) be located within easy reach of a border or airport, (iv) be ready to pack quickly and methodically, remembering to have legal and important personal papers in a file for quick access, (v) have a checklist of what you need to take, (vi) have someone you know readily available if you need to be driven to the border or airport; if you'll drive yourself, then (vii) keep the tank filled.

If it's too late to implement the above, then you've really left it too late. At that point you can just sit back and watch the show, hoping you're not going to be a part of it.

[gotglue]

@Winnie...bloody well said. And to all these people that are worried about "what's his name" passing away, I may be wrong, but I'm sure he HAS made arrangements AND demands as to what will happen next. Maybe, just maybe that is why this "elite" class was introduced in the first place, to uphold this request. (?) But then again, I'm just another farang that knows bugger all eh

[Jimi007]

I always have kept plan B in place. I still own my house in California, it's paid for. It's in a nice coastal town, it used to be nicer, but things used to be nicer here too. I guess plan C is to leave Phuket and build a house out in Sa Kaew. Or keep all of the above and build in Sa Kaew as we have 40 Rai there, then just move around a bit. It's nice to have options...