Thaksin Lawyers Probe Will Have Credibility Issues

[hammered]

It has been widely noticed that he doesnt allow comments on his site. Some of what he wrote was factually questionable too.

[elcent]

P.S. I just came across Amsterdam's own response to the Nation Editorial - about which I pass no judgement.

http://www.robertamsterdam.com/2010/06/the..._the_nation.htm

These guys, Amsterdam and Knoobs, are on a PR campaign, nothing else. I had a look a the above website, it shows clearly they got nothing else to do than to probably distort the truth for money, at least that is what they attempt.

[gemini81]

I feel sorry for Thaksin, he's become so good at believing his lies and is in such a state of denial that he firmly believes hiring these goons will achieve a positive result for him, I can just imagine the money it's costing and how it could be put to better use.

I am perfectly happy to let him drain his finances as much as possible.

But this guy will make some noise and time will be needed to counter it.

But that is part of Thaksin's ploys waste the governments time,

so he can say they aren't getting anything done.

THis guy Knoop is sort of like an expert witness for hire in court.

Pay him enough and he'll slant the testimony your way.

But a better offer would slant it diametrically.

Som nom na.

well put. Thaksin can't be a happy man in all of this bitter turmoil he suffers. I think letting all the problems eat him from the inside out is just punishment, the voices of those souls whose lives he has taken, and folks he duped and/or cheated. Hope his diseases gnarl him to pieces.

Best thing is to let him live and slowly flicker

As for his arrogant family members, they have no credibility in Thailand and couldn't live a functional life here. I'll never forget his daughter's tweet which said no one would miss central world, 'cause most thais are too poor to shop there.

[ratcatcher]

I feel sorry for Thaksin, he's become so good at believing his lies and is in such a state of denial that he firmly believes hiring these goons will achieve a positive result for him, I can just imagine the money it's costing and how it could be put to better use.

Sooner the fools and his money departed the better

I think you meant to say " A fool and his money are soon parted" ( an old English saying.)

Mr Amsterdam and Mr Knoops are working hard to see that this actually happens in Thaksin's case.

It just takes time.

[animatic]

I read some of it...

just enough to see how for off the scale he is willing to go.

The Abyss seems about right.

Blackened kettle calling the china teapot black.

Never cease to amaze what money can buy,

but I find it can buy things much more worthwhile

if good taste is also involved.

[mazeltov]

Only small minded and probably not that well educated people judge a lawyer by his clients.

[animatic]

P.S. I just came across Amsterdam's own response to the Nation Editorial - about which I pass no judgement.

http://www.robertamsterdam.com/2010/06/the..._the_nation.htm

These guys, Amsterdam and Knoobs, are on a PR campaign, nothing else. I had a look a the above website, it shows clearly they got nothing else to do than to probably distort the truth for money, at least that is what they attempt.

Most all of the people most pissed off at CNN's missing the story completely,

are rational and well thought people; either Thais or long term farang residents.

But Hampster Damed's site tries to make it seem it's only government spin,

when it really was a pure grass root cry for Dan Rivers to get on the stick.

Seems he has listened, or his bosses did, and that seems to give '

Team Thaksin some fear...

GOOD!!!

I would ONLY pick a lawyer based on impecable recomendations, not his website blurbs.

But the kind of clients is also a very good reference to quality of mind of the lawyer.

Edited June 2, 2010 by animatic

[lensta]

The main credibility interest is who is that the person paying is not a disinterested party and hence a lawyer becomes an advocate for an interested party. It isnt a neutral investigation as an investigation paid for by the government or army wouldnt be an independent one.

However with Clinton backing an "independent inquiry" into an international incident involving an attack by Israel on a vessel flagged to a NATO ally in international waters, it is does somewhat show the standard for independent investiagtions is maybe more about poltical expedience these days or to put it another way she has just accepted that independent inquiries by governments with an interest in the case are OK which is......

Definitely agree that it may lack credibility because he is on the payrol of a party that has a vested interest, however, it would no less credible than the government launching an "independent inquiry", or the army investigating themselves, and definitely no less credible than the police investigating some of their own.

AS for this question by the writer:

"Furthermore, we need to ask ourselves if the state mechanism - namely our legal system - is in such a state of shambles that a foreign mediator is needed at all?"

Answer: Yes it is and not only the legal system. Does the person who wrote this article not understand the word corruption??

[Bagwan]

In recent articles, both Newsweek and The New Yorker described the country as a refuge for organized crime and a haven for money laundering operations. The country's prime minister, his relatives and political subordinates are cited in at least two lawsuits in Germany and Switzerland for cigarette smuggling and money laundering.

As for his political activities back home, Montenegrin foreign minister Milan Rocen said he warned Shinawatra "not to use Montenegro as his headquarters for co-ordinating political activities in Thailand." He also said several European countries had granted citizenship to controversial international businessmen and that Montenegro is no exception. If anything, he argued, Shinawatra becoming a Montenegrin citizen brought new respect to this country.

This one statement makes this moron an honorary Thai kwai and a candidate for a Darwin Award.

Edited June 2, 2010 by Bagwan

[gemini81]

Only small minded and probably not that well educated people judge a lawyer by his clients.

no one is "judging him." just looking at his track records, you know, the facts. C'mon, check out his site and read the words from the horse's mouth. the fact he'd represent these types shows what he's in it for. would you want him to represent you? maybe 5% of the lawyers out there care about the case or the person, as for the rest.....

[Siripon]

All the government has to do is play the translated clips of the red leaders encouraging their supporters to burn Bangkok with the red shirts cheering.

Game over.

[yesdavy]

Whether Prof Knoops is wise to get involved with Thaksin is indeed a pertinent question, but one cannot help but notice the sloppy reporting in the Nation Editorial. If nobody in Bangkok had heard of G J Knoops, presumably it was because they were not very interested in human rights law, though it may also be because he normally writes under the name of G G J Knoops. In fact Knoops is a well-known human rights lawyer at Utrecht University, with many books and articles to his credit. If people doubt this , just type his name into Google Scholar or look at the link below. Does the Nation really score any rhetorical points by using phrases like, 'If Knoots is what Manchester says he is....' (i.e. an international law expert)? Is the concept of background research unknown to this reporter?

http://www.knoops.info/en/Advocaten/de-hee...knoops-llm.html

Right through the article matters of fact that are easily verifiable are presented as mere claims. Thus Knoops has 'reportedly' worked on high profile cases. 'According to a statement' on a website Knoops and Amsterdam have worked together for many years (Knoop's website lists Amsterdam as an associate lawyer). Why not simply acknowledge that Knoops indeed wrote an article with Amsterdam in 2006 (in the Fordham Int Law Journal) rather than stating that 'Amsterdam said' they published this article? Perhaps I am old fashioned but I like a reporter to do his homework.

Thanks for saving me the trouble. It's not old fashioned to expect facts and reporting, even opinion pieces, to exercise a modicum of understanding through research. The first sign of an amateur is stating his or her perceptions from an uninformed vacuum and trying to pass them off as world view, haha. Such thinking and attempts at writing would hardly approach a passing grade in a first world, high school. Thaksin is assembling a global dream team of legal experts. Why shouldn't he? It is his prerogative, even his obligation, to protect his family interests and to use the law to the benefit of people who have supported him. Folks posting here seem surprised, as though a man as cunning and driven as Mr. T might hire some inexperienced, local, uninformed person to represent him just because a newspaper may have.

[eggomaniac]

Why not let Thaksin waste his money, then? Why enlighten the enemy on the best to use his resources?

logically the OP can be only one of two things.

A. - a very poor strategist who lets blind emotion lead him to give 'good' money saving advice to the opposition

B. OR someone who, in reality, is scared poopless what effect these hires could have and, contrary to the 'statements' in the Post, actually believes they can greatly benefit Thaksin

<<< Which one is it?

[ianf]

Whether Prof Knoops is wise to get involved with Thaksin is indeed a pertinent question, but one cannot help but notice the sloppy reporting in the Nation Editorial. If nobody in Bangkok had heard of G J Knoops, presumably it was because they were not very interested in human rights law, though it may also be because he normally writes under the name of G G J Knoops. In fact Knoops is a well-known human rights lawyer at Utrecht University, with many books and articles to his credit. If people doubt this , just type his name into Google Scholar or look at the link below. Does the Nation really score any rhetorical points by using phrases like, 'If Knoots is what Manchester says he is....' (i.e. an international law expert)? Is the concept of background research unknown to this reporter?

http://www.knoops.info/en/Advocaten/de-hee...knoops-llm.html

Right through the article matters of fact that are easily verifiable are presented as mere claims. Thus Knoops has 'reportedly' worked on high profile cases. 'According to a statement' on a website Knoops and Amsterdam have worked together for many years (Knoop's website lists Amsterdam as an associate lawyer). Why not simply acknowledge that Knoops indeed wrote an article with Amsterdam in 2006 (in the Fordham Int Law Journal) rather than stating that 'Amsterdam said' they published this article? Perhaps I am old fashioned but I like a reporter to do his homework.

Thanks for saving me the trouble. It's not old fashioned to expect facts and reporting, even opinion pieces, to exercise a modicum of understanding through research. The first sign of an amateur is stating his or her perceptions from an uninformed vacuum and trying to pass them off as world view, haha. Such thinking and attempts at writing would hardly approach a passing grade in a first world, high school. Thaksin is assembling a global dream team of legal experts. Why shouldn't he? It is his prerogative, even his obligation, to protect his family interests and to use the law to the benefit of people who have supported him. Folks posting here seem surprised, as though a man as cunning and driven as Mr. T might hire some inexperienced, local, uninformed person to represent him just because a newspaper may have.

I have sent Robert Amsterdam an email questioning the so-called facts on his website.

You can do the same:

[email protected]

[yesdavy]

The title of this thread [Thaksin Lawyers Probe Will Have Credibility Issues] is either a joke, or, if meant to be serious, shows a completely naive misunderstanding of lawyer client relationships and of what Thaksin and his attorneys are doing. Not only is the title ludicrous, but it also has posters taking it serious, as if the credibility of two of the greatest legal and political minds in the world could be in doubt. Of course their work is in behalf of their client in accordance with international case law and precedents. Uh, it is 2010 and that is how the law works. Some here seem to think Thaksin should hire independent sources to investigate and write a report, LOL! Credibility. Whew! Like Glenn Beck used to say, better get out the duct tape.

[rabo]

Only small minded and probably not that well educated people judge a lawyer by his clients.

There you go with that education level thing again.

Are you suggesting that we should not judge a lawyer as bad just because he is representing Mr. Thaksin?

[KireB]

Only small minded and probably not that well educated people judge a lawyer by his clients.

He is not a lawyer as lawyers dont have websites stating factual mistakes and lies. This man is a PR agent (provocateur) and nothing more.

I'd expect you to be educated enough, to conform to your elitist statements, to see through this charade. Or are you part of this?

[mazeltov]

Only small minded and probably not that well educated people judge a lawyer by his clients.

There you go with that education level thing again.

Are you suggesting that we should not judge a lawyer as bad just because he is representing Mr. Thaksin?

Yes, don't call a lawyer bad because he is representing Thaksin.

[KireB]

Only small minded and probably not that well educated people judge a lawyer by his clients.

There you go with that education level thing again.

Are you suggesting that we should not judge a lawyer as bad just because he is representing Mr. Thaksin?

Yes, don't call a lawyer bad because he is representing Thaksin.

Why dont we read the book ' Defending the Devil' by William Morrow and feel some sort of sympathy for poor mr Amsterdam. Shant we?

[yesdavy]

Only small minded and probably not that well educated people judge a lawyer by his clients.

There you go with that education level thing again.

Are you suggesting that we should not judge a lawyer as bad just because he is representing Mr. Thaksin?

People don't need to have hired lawyers or be particularly educated to understand that every person, including the PM and other government executives, have a right to legal representation. If one wishes to opine that a lawyer is bad for protecting the rights of his client, that is one's right, but every time one says it, one demonstrates naivete.

[mazeltov]

Only small minded and probably not that well educated people judge a lawyer by his clients.

There you go with that education level thing again.

Are you suggesting that we should not judge a lawyer as bad just because he is representing Mr. Thaksin?

Yes, don't call a lawyer bad because he is representing Thaksin.

Why dont we read the book ' Defending the Devil' by William Morrow and feel some sort of sympathy for poor mr Amsterdam. Shant we?

Do you mean "Defending the Devil: My Story as Ted Bundy's Last Lawyer"? That book is written by Polly Nelson. William Morrow is the publishing house, not the author. Do you know the difference? Did you read it?

And why should i read the book? Care to explain?

[truethailand]

All the government has to do is play the translated clips of the red leaders encouraging their supporters to burn Bangkok with the red shirts cheering.

Game over.

Good point... have they got any tapes, has any thai not connected to either side heard these tapes. If they truly had such dammimg evidence why not shut up the foreign press ( who they believed reported the story biasedly). Thai coverage of the whole 2 months of protests was pathetic. I honestly never saw any army firing any guns in the same way that I saw on Al Jazeera and youtube etc. Why did they not invite the journos to photograph the arsenal behind the stage... maybe it was not there. Just put some new guns on a table and invite the press in ( did you see that foreign army guy looking.. his face said it all.. still had the price tags on)

Why did they prohibit certain pics from the censure debate, I only saw ones that where already out there for public viewing (did some democrat suggests pics had been altered in photoshop LMFAO). There has been so much manipulation of the state run media

Before I go (for now) ask your self these questions

1. Why has Porntips report into the grenade attacks on the general public at Sala Daeng not been published. Who does it incriminate (answers not needed)

2. Why have the Democrats gone alittle easier on the word 'Terrorists' in recent days and why has the Thai government contacted all 197 countries(reported on the Nation TV news today), Under Interpol, to explain why it is important to bring Takky back to Thailand. Only my opinion but if Takky had a terrorism charge to answer he would be on a flight home now. I think Interpol have told them 'get the F..k out of here you might fool your own people with this nonsense but not us'.

There is so many untruths being reported by the state media but the best was that they where trying to blow up the Emerald Buddha not the Defence Ministry.. and it hit a wire and did not reach its target... more f..king clowns than a circus. I banged my head when I fell off my chair laughing at that one

[groovyc]

What's wrong with the Nation? Is this actually the editorial!!?

This is not to say that The Nation is against a full and independent investigation, or even the possibility of foreign mediation in the investigation into the clashes between the reds and the government troops. But an investigation that is being launched and paid for by a stakeholder - not to mention the fact that this stakeholder has been charged with being the mastermind behind the violence - is not exactly credible or neutral.

Wake up editor! Lawyers are not "supposed" to be nuetral. Their job is to protect their clients' rights, thank you.

omg, whats wrong with the Thai media? Dan Rivers should see this.

[KireB]

And why should i read the book? Care to explain?

Because you keep claiming that you are a very educated person! So this title is just a suggestion for your extensive list of literature!

You might learn someting.

[whybother]

What's wrong with the Nation? Is this actually the editorial!!?

This is not to say that The Nation is against a full and independent investigation, or even the possibility of foreign mediation in the investigation into the clashes between the reds and the government troops. But an investigation that is being launched and paid for by a stakeholder - not to mention the fact that this stakeholder has been charged with being the mastermind behind the violence - is not exactly credible or neutral.

Wake up editor! Lawyers are not "supposed" to be nuetral. Their job is to protect their clients' rights, thank you.

omg, whats wrong with the Thai media? Dan Rivers should see this.

But a lawyer paid by one of those being accused can't really do an independent investigation, can they?

[animatic]

What's wrong with the Nation? Is this actually the editorial!!?

This is not to say that The Nation is against a full and independent investigation, or even the possibility of foreign mediation in the investigation into the clashes between the reds and the government troops. But an investigation that is being launched and paid for by a stakeholder - not to mention the fact that this stakeholder has been charged with being the mastermind behind the violence - is not exactly credible or neutral.

Wake up editor! Lawyers are not "supposed" to be nuetral. Their job is to protect their clients' rights, thank you.

omg, whats wrong with the Thai media? Dan Rivers should see this.

But a lawyer paid by one of those being accused can't really do an independent investigation, can they?

Precisely.

[yoshiwara]

Only small minded and probably not that well educated people judge a lawyer by his clients.

The boot is on the other foot.

Yours probably.

Expensive lawyers are taken on precisely because of their specialist expertise and track record.

That a particular lawyer has a penchant for taking on war crimes defendants or other dodgy riff-raff does not tell you that he is poor lawyer per se.

But they must be distinguished from the legal practice cab rank principle.

They defend bad causes for big money.

Your primary reason for entering the argument is to whitewash anything that moves within Thaksin's orbit.

Over-estimation of own level of intelligence and education comes to mind here dear.

[tracymeaw]

It takes a murderer to catch a murderer.

Thaksin murdered 2,500.

Mark murdered 90.

Who is the bigger murderer?

The unelected one?

[chainarong]

Nice old shonky team here, how about they do something good for Thailand and put up a case for better wages and conditions for school teachers, police etc , lets make that a class action.

[chainarong]

Nice old shonky team here, how about they do something good for Thailand and put up a case for better wages and conditions for school teachers, police etc , lets make that a class action.