!St Time Tourist - !St Time Poster - Silly Question

[DingoWarrior]

After years of my ex-partner and college roommate asking me to come to Thailand to meet his family - I'm here. (I'm sure your all thrilled at the prospect of a first time American visiting your form to ask the same old questions..)

Thinking I would do some diving while here, I've just learned, the good diving is seasonal as it is essentially closed to tourists during the summer.

So I ask you, there must be an option for a first time in Asia guy to dive other than flying to Fiji, India or the Philippines.

If anyone has any advice, it would be greatly appreciated. From what I've seen, the local diving around Phuket seems about as inviting as a Tuk Tuk beat down.

[stevenl]

Diving from phuket is hardly seasonal. All daytrips are going, and offerexcellent diving. There are even liveaboard options.

Just no trips to similans.

[DingoWarrior]

Diving from phuket is hardly seasonal. All daytrips are going, and offerexcellent diving. There are even liveaboard options.

Just no trips to similans.

Thank you Steven, thats good to hear. I look forward to the experience.

Is there a dive operator that you admire based out of Pi Pi, or one you might recommend that operates off of Phuket? I've been chatting with WorldWide Dive and Sail a bit about doing a short trip. DAN speaks highly of them and I'll be dropping by and see them when I get settled in. Any suggestions would be helpful.

Thanks again,

G

[mikejphuket]

Please go to a real dive shop, not one of the many booking agents, to ensure your satisfaction . The best service and value will always come from a well established company owning and operating their own boats.

Thank you Steven, thats good to hear. I look forward to the experience.

Is there a dive operator that you admire based out of Pi Pi, or one you might recommend that operates off of Phuket? I've been chatting with WorldWide Dive and Sail a bit about doing a short trip. DAN speaks highly of them and I'll be dropping by and see them when I get settled in. Any suggestions would be helpful.

Thanks again,

G

[DingoWarrior]

A wise and sound suggestion MikeJ. Thank you for it.

Is there a dive operator that you've hired or worked with that you admire?

Please go to a real dive shop, not one of the many booking agents, to ensure your satisfaction . The best service and value will always come from a well established company owning and operating their own boats.

[stevenl]

Please go to a real dive shop, not one of the many booking agents, to ensure your satisfaction . The best service and value will always come from a well established company owning and operating their own boats.

regarding flexibility and service, a dc without its own boats is normally much better.

[F1fanatic]

Are you based on Phi Phi or Phuket?

If you're based on Phi Phi you stand some chance of a good dive, even at this time of year. On Phuket???? All the dive sites have been fished/blasted out of existence.

[stevenl]

Are you based on Phi Phi or Phuket?

If you're based on Phi Phi you stand some chance of a good dive, even at this time of year. On Phuket???? All the dive sites have been fished/blasted out of existence.

from phuket: racha noi offers good diving, racha yai reasonable diving.

The other divesites are shared with krabi and phi phi, and are the best sites krabi and phi phi have to offer, so you really don't know what you're talking about.

[DingoWarrior]

Thanks for all the helpful information from everyone. I think I might run out to Phi Phi for a while and see how that feels. I just arrived in Phuket today and I must admidt, the flight in was stunning. Very inviteing.

Can't wait to find a hotel in Patong that's user friendly too, as I would like to hang out here for a little while. If anyone has any suggestions along that line, that would be great too.

[DingoWarrior]

Are you based on Phi Phi or Phuket?

If you're based on Phi Phi you stand some chance of a good dive, even at this time of year. On Phuket???? All the dive sites have been fished/blasted out of existence.

from phuket: racha noi offers good diving, racha yai reasonable diving.

The other divesites are shared with krabi and phi phi, and are the best sites krabi and phi phi have to offer, so you really don't know what you're talking about.

Understood. Perhaps F1 was suggesting the sites that where just offshore have been a little beat down. I'm sure thats not meant as an insult - I've never heard anyone suggest Phuket was a significant dive destination but I wanted to consider giving it a go since I'm in the neighborhood. It sounds like a live aboard is the best option here abouts.

Thanks again for the ideas. Sincerely.

[F1fanatic]

Are you based on Phi Phi or Phuket?

If you're based on Phi Phi you stand some chance of a good dive, even at this time of year. On Phuket???? All the dive sites have been fished/blasted out of existence.

from phuket: racha noi offers good diving, racha yai reasonable diving.

The other divesites are shared with krabi and phi phi, and are the best sites krabi and phi phi have to offer, so you really don't know what you're talking about.

You're kidding right??

I've dived all over the world (over 500 dives) and once upon a time Phuket was a good dive destination.

How biased are you to pretend its a good dive destination now??

Sorry, its always been a failing of mine - I cannot lie, even when I live here and realise the island needs the business.

Racha Yai just makes a diver depressed about how a dive site can be wrecked. Racha Noi has been destroyed too, but is less obvious.

Shark Point is a decent dive, but there are no sharks left.... Even so, its a good dive. If you want a GREAT dive, go elsewhere (the Maldives springs to mind)...

[stevenl]

What you mention are really personal opinions, so not much point in a discussion there.

But no sharks at shark point: we nearly always see them there, so i can't imagine where you got that idea.

[Chantal]

Racha Noi has been destroyed too, but is less obvious.

Shark Point is a decent dive, but there are no sharks left....

No sharks left at Sharkpoint?

[ScubaBuddha]

If you're based on Phi Phi you stand some chance of a good dive, even at this time of year. On Phuket???? All the dive sites have been fished/blasted out of existence.

Wow. This simply is untrue.

Also, there are operators out of Phuket that do both day trips and overnight trips to Phi Phi from Phuket, so being "based on Phi Phi" is not a requirement. You can dive the same sites from both.

Even Kata house reef right of the beach at the north end of Kata can be quite nice. I was really happy to notice an increase biodiversity on that reef compared to when I first started diving it in 2001, and other instructors have said the same to me. Sometimes the schools of fish around the reef are so dense you can't see the reef! Often a school of squid there too.

You're kidding right??

I've dived all over the world (over 500 dives) and once upon a time Phuket was a good dive destination.

How biased are you to pretend its a good dive destination now??

Sorry, its always been a failing of mine - I cannot lie, even when I live here and realise the island needs the business.

Racha Yai just makes a diver depressed about how a dive site can be wrecked. Racha Noi has been destroyed too, but is less obvious.

Shark Point is a decent dive, but there are no sharks left.... Even so, its a good dive. If you want a GREAT dive, go elsewhere (the Maldives springs to mind)...

Wow again. You're kidding, right? What an incredibly inaccurate post. Maybe your not lying, just misinformed. We had sharks THIS WEEK at Shark point. Almost every dive I do there I see them.

I know I haven't always been the biggest fan of Racha (also spelled Raya) Yai in the past, but F1 your characterization of it is way off. To be fair, while Racha Yai does have visible coral damage probably due to dynamite fishing long ago, that is only in a few spots. While most would agree, it's no Shark Point, Anemone Reef, and Koh Doc Mai (All fantastic dives and easily accessible from Phuket by the way) Racha still has a lot to offer, especially newer divers. It is far from "depressing." F1, maybe you didn't have a good dive guide that knew where to look? Just yesterday on the east side, for example, I saw a huge octopus, (second one this week) 3 Peacock Mantis shrimps, 3 Giant Morays within 2 meters of each other, loads of Garden Eels as always, massive Barracuda and Crocodile Needle Fish circling above, Titan Trigger Fish, a Cow fish, Yellow Boxfish, Jellyfish, Lionfish, Giant Zig Zig clams, schools of Moorish Idols, and, among all the other colorful reef fish, a pair of huge yellow, black, and white Butterfly fish which I have yet to identify. Blue-Spotted Stingrays are omni-present at 15-21m between bays 1 and 3, as are a pair of rare Bent Stick Pipe Fish, which you will never spot unless you know what to look for. Also common at Racha east side and Bungalow Bay are Banded Sea Snakes, Green and Hawksbill turtles, Razorfish, Oriental Sweetlips (j. and a.), schools of Sweepers, and the ornate little juvenile Rockmover Wrasse. We even see Leopard Sharks there occasionally. There is also two small wrecks on the east side, one of which has beautiful, graceful and curious Orbicular Bat Fish floating around inside it.

And as for Racha Noi, the Manta dives I have done there are in the top 5-10 all time best dives in my life. (About 1000 now) The Manta's we see at Racha Noi, if we see them, are massive, unlike those I have seen in Hawaii, the Bahamas and Mexico. Online and in literature you will read reports of Manta's growing up to 30 ft/9.1 meters across. Even accounting for 33% magnification of water, a few of the Racha Noi mantas I have seen were very close to that size. The problem with the Manta's is it is hit or miss. When I was going there regularly every Sunday for over a year, we saw them 80% of the time, but granted that was a few years back. The water is usually very clear, but the reefs their are not as full as the other sites, and the current can be strong. Still, I always enjoyed diving around the huge boulders on the south tip in crystal clear water. Because of the deep surrounding waters, you get a lot of pelagic fish, like schools of Tuna and Jacks sweeping by. And you also will very often see huge schools of Chevron Barracuda. An experienced (and optimistic) diver can find interesting things on almost any dive.

Edited June 16, 2010 by ScubaBuddha

[phuketrichard]

Diving from phuket is hardly seasonal. All daytrips are going, and offerexcellent diving. There are even liveaboard options.

Just no trips to similans.

what diving is now avilabe is not worth paying for if ur looking for really nice coral and such. Most of the best diving is off the west coast of Phuket and /or in the smilans/burma banks

There is some easy places off of Phi Phi but save ur money and come back in Nov/dec

[stevenl]

Diving from phuket is hardly seasonal. All daytrips are going, and offerexcellent diving. There are even liveaboard options.

Just no trips to similans.

what diving is now avilabe is not worth paying for if ur looking for really nice coral and such. Most of the best diving is off the west coast of Phuket and /or in the smilans/burma banks

There is some easy places off of Phi Phi but save ur money and come back in Nov/dec

besides similans the best diving from phuket is not from the west coast, but at places like shark point, anemone reef, racha noi, etc.

And in quite a few of those pkaces duvers will find lovely corals, even better than at the similans.

I just can't believe people posting here without knowing what they are talking about.

[Chantal]

Have to agree with Steven. It is a pity to read some of the posts on this thread which clearly shows a lack of knowledge about the diving around Phuket. During the low season months there is no diving off the west coast of Phuket. However in the high season months these local dive sites do have a lot to offer.

Also the daytrip diving (Sharkpoint, Anemone Reef, King Cruiser Wreck, Koh Doc Mai, Racha Yai and Racha Noi as well as around Phi Phi islands) is in fact better during the low season. The divers tend to see more marine life and bigger pelagics during these months due to the less amount of divers and boat surface traffic as during our high season months.

Safe diving all!

[ScubaBuddha]

If you're based on Phi Phi you stand some chance of a good dive, even at this time of year. On Phuket???? All the dive sites have been fished/blasted out of existence.

Shark Point is a decent dive, but there are no sharks left.... Even so, its a good dive. If you want a GREAT dive, go elsewhere (the Maldives springs to mind)...

Just to reiterate your apparent ignorance (or dishonesty) I wanted to add that today we again had 2 Leopard Sharks circling Shark Point, same as last week and almost every dive we do there. One was quite large. Then, on Koh Doc Mai a 5m Whale Shark appeared out of nowhere and literally bumped into me during my safety stop!! First I have ever seen. Almost 1000 dives now and that is now my new most memorable moment diving. Seahorses are still at both sites as well.

Edited June 28, 2010 by ScubaBuddha

[F1fanatic]

Just to reiterate your apparent ignorance (or dishonesty) I wanted to add that today we again had 2 Leopard Sharks circling Shark Point, same as last week and almost every dive we do there. One was quite large. Then, on Koh Doc Mai a 5m Whale Shark appeared out of nowhere and literally bumped into me during my safety stop!! First I have ever seen. Almost 1000 dives now and that is now my new most memorable moment diving. Seahorses are still at both sites as well.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone with my views on the local diving - that was not my intention - I was just stating my views. Divers I talk to here (as opposed to those posting on TV) say the same.

Have to admit I haven't dived here for 2 years, so perhaps things have improved. My last dive trip here was a Similans/Burma Banks liveaboard that I enjoyed (mainly) for the octopus(i?) - the large fish/sharks were conspicuous by their absence.... The dive guides on the liveaboard said that the Chinese had fished them out of existence. We were set for an early morning dive at one site only to be told we were going elsewhere as the skipper had received news from another dive boat (that had dived there the previous day) that the site had been dynamite-fished a couple of days earlier and was a foot deep in dead fish...

Having said that, we did see a Whale Shark passing overhead on one dive!

I'm old enough to remember when Phuket was known as a first class dive destination - I stand by my view that (2 years ago) it was no longer remotely the case. A few years earlier I too saw leopard sharks on pretty much every dive - I rarely saw them for the year I last dived here.

[Chantal]

Just received a text - a group of our divers today have just buddied up with a Whaleshark at The King Cruiser Wreck located next to Sharkpoint! Will find out what size when they return later today.

[stevenl]

We were set for an early morning dive at one site only to be told we were going elsewhere as the skipper had received news from another dive boat (that had dived there the previous day) that the site had been dynamite-fished a couple of days earlier and was a foot deep in dead fish...

Having said that, we did see a Whale Shark passing overhead on one dive!

I'm old enough to remember when Phuket was known as a first class dive destination - I stand by my view that (2 years ago) it was no longer remotely the case. A few years earlier I too saw leopard sharks on pretty much every dive - I rarely saw them for the year I last dived here.

Yes, Burma Banks I do normally not recommend anymore.

Regarding the leopard sharks: maybe you need a prescription mask? Between May and beginning of December at virtually every dive at Shark Point and Bida Islands we see leopard sharks.

[ScubaBuddha]

Just received a text - a group of our divers today have just buddied up with a Whaleshark at The King Cruiser Wreck located next to Sharkpoint! Will find out what size when they return later today.

Yes! My second in a week! (and 2nd ever). This one I got some great video and a few stills of, which I will post here later. I am fairly certain it is the same one that bumped into me on Koh Doc Mai last week. Those two sites are not far from each other. It must have sensed I was in the water and came over to say hi. It was the same size, 5-6m and had the same amount of Cobias and Remoras buzzing around it's head, and exhibited the same curious behavior of bumping into divers on their safety stop. When I get the video I will compare with the other video to see if there are any identifying features. We also found 3 Bamboo Sharks on Shark Point, where the Tourleaders group also saw 3 Leopard Sharks.

Edited July 7, 2010 by ScubaBuddha

[DingoWarrior]

I'm sorry if I offended anyone with my views on the local diving - that was not my intention - I was just stating my views. Divers I talk to here (as opposed to those posting on TV) say the same.

Have to admit I haven't dived here for 2 years, so perhaps things have improved. My last dive trip here was a Similans/Burma Banks liveaboard that I enjoyed (mainly) for the octopus(i?) - the large fish/sharks were conspicuous by their absence.... The dive guides on the liveaboard said that the Chinese had fished them out of existence. We were set for an early morning dive at one site only to be told we were going elsewhere as the skipper had received news from another dive boat (that had dived there the previous day) that the site had been dynamite-fished a couple of days earlier and was a foot deep in dead fish...

Having said that, we did see a Whale Shark passing overhead on one dive!

I'm old enough to remember when Phuket was known as a first class dive destination - I stand by my view that (2 years ago) it was no longer remotely the case. A few years earlier I too saw leopard sharks on pretty much every dive - I rarely saw them for the year I last dived here.

No offense taken on my part.

Those of us who dive for recreation, or who travel abroad for the soul purpose of diving understand. Commercial destruction of pristine dive sites and the interests of tour guides aside, it is the great irony of diving that once a dive site can be frequented daily... or even weekly by more than a handful of divers, the site quickly decays into a site I really don't care to dive.

As is, I ended up spending a couple of weeks hiding out at Phi Phi, mainly resting, eating, sleeping and doing a bit of writing. I did dive several times - and I'm glad for it despite the poor conditions. I dove well and I met an interesting young diver from Hong Kong that was there to finish up some training dives. As a retiring diver, it made for an interesting few dives - passing the torch and all of that.

As to the "conditions" debate here I can say this; - it's nice to see Pelagic's from time to time, after-all, it was a chance snorkeling encounter with Humpbacks back in the seventies that got me to put on a tank for the first time, but where I come from, we don't dive to see Pelagic's. We dive to see Ecosystems. Now in Phi Phi, I'm diving in what are supposedly protected waters and the Grouper are all immature, as are most of the reef fish I encountered, but I could still get Grouper on the menu at the village most nights. The reefs and walls I dove, are dead or dying. I suspect due to illegal fishing, over-diving and pollution. It is the same the world over - especially anywhere that economic realities encourage a certain behavior from the residents.

I remember when I first traveled to Cozumel to dive on the then pristine San Francisco Wall in 78. The grouper were the size of Volkswagens. The giant crab and sea turtles were beyond number, the coral and the clarity were without equal, and the Town of San Miguel was welcoming and wonderful to the handful of divers that would visit each year. Then the tourist town of Cancun was built - and began ferrying day tripping tourists to the island. Soon afterward, a pier was built to accommodate Cruise Ships. Strip-malls were built to sell trinkets to American kids... and PADI encouraged the new hotels to teach tourists to dive, in one easy lesson.

In the span of a few years a natural paradise housing the greatest diving in that hemisphere was turned into a tourist shit-hole that you couldn't pay me to dive in or visit.

Bottom-line - if a dive operator is bragging about seeing sharks on the same site two days in a row- Its already long over. Enjoy the 30 pieces of silver. No offense. Its a wonderful place - for sightseeing tourists.

Edited July 7, 2010 by DingoWarrior

[ScubaBuddha]

if a dive operator is bragging about seeing sharks on the same site two days in a row- Its already long over. Enjoy the 30 pieces of silver. No offense. Its a wonderful place - for sightseeing tourists.

Not sure where that comment came from. Nobody was "bragging about seeing sharks on the same site two days in a row." If you read the thread carefully (and perhaps re-read post #14 as well) you will see I said I had seen a Whale shark twice in 8 days, and have repeatedly said that we are seeing sharks on almost every dive at Shark Point, and always have, despite one member inexplicably stating "there are no sharks left at Shark Point". In fact, we had 3 Bamboo sharks and 3 Leopards just yesterday at SP.

I am curious where you were diving in Phi Phi that could be characterized as "dead or dying". Did you dive Koh Bida Nai and Koh Bida Nok? Are you referring to the coral bleaching from the warm waters we just had?

I have spoke to enough old timers like you that describe the marine life 40-60 years ago to know that things have changed drastically since then. (I was once lucky enough to met the legend Silvia Earle.) But that is not the issue here. No one can argue that our oceans aren't suffering badly due to the reasons you mentioned. It is difficult to know where to set a baseline, but estimates put the worlds fish stock at 90% depleted. Scientists estimate up to 20% of the worlds reefs are dead, and most of the rest are threatened.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/03/26/tech/main6335364.shtml

Are the worlds dive sites generally a shadow of their former self's? In many cases, the answer is yes. It's a sad situation. I firmly believe that one day stories about the wonderful underwater ecosystems which used to exist will be all we have left to tell our children about. The lose of our reefs will mean a global extinction event, there is no doubt of that. But diving is not a cause of the problems. If you haven't been involved in the diving community lately, you wouldn't know that conservationism is at the forefront of diving instruction and diving activities now. Overall, the awareness and activism spurred by the diving industry far outweighs any negatives it causes through it's associated tourism. It has made me a conservationist.

But again that is way off the threads topic in which you wanted help deciding which shop to go through, which it seems you never really got an answer to, probably because the active "pro's" on this thread are all in the industry and will not self promote on this forum, (and aren't allowed to) unless they are PM'ed directly. The "cons'" on this thread don't seem to know much about Phuket diving from the sound of it so they are no help either.

Anyway, my point is, anyone who dives Phuket regularly knows your original statement of "From what I've seen, the local diving around Phuket seems about as inviting as a Tuk Tuk beat down." and other subsequent posts by another member are highly inaccurate representations, even if they are "opinions", they are based on inaccurate facts. And yes, I am biased. But if you had people unjustly disparaging something your industry, you would want to speak up too.

If you had such a bad dive on Phi Phi, then I will make the same offer to you that I did to F1Fantaic. Let me take you diving and afterwards, see if you still prefer the tuk tuk beat down. (Those, unfortunately, don't seem to be in short supply)

Whale Shark yesterday at King Cruiser.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa-5YVfAOlo

Pictures taken at the decimated and barren dive sites accessible by dayboat from Phuket yearround:

[ScubaBuddha]

Some pictures I took yesterday with my customers point and shoot. (They wanted me to carry the camera)

Edited July 8, 2010 by ScubaBuddha

[stevenl]

If you had such a bad dive on Phi Phi, then I will make the same offer to you that I did to F1Fantaic. Let me take you diving and afterwards, see if you still prefer the tuk tuk beat down.

I'll make the challenge complete: if you prefer the tuk tuk beat down, I'll provide that one

[DingoWarrior]

If you had such a bad dive on Phi Phi, then I will make the same offer to you that I did to F1Fantaic. Let me take you diving and afterwards, see if you still prefer the tuk tuk beat down.

I'll make the challenge complete: if you prefer the tuk tuk beat down, I'll provide that one

How generous of you to extend such an offer - I'll be sure to pass this notion of hospitality along to Conde Nast and DAN.

Seriously, I never said I had a bad dive or that the sites I dove around Phi Phi were "Barren and Desolate", although I could have. I suggested the sites lacked water clarity, seemed very stressed, over-fished and over-dove.

I have no doubt there is great diving available around Phuket - I also suspect that those sites are rarely frequented by tourist laden cattle boats. Thanks to this thread, I'm now fairly certain that those sites or operators that might be willing to accepct a premium to frequent such sites, which was the objective of this post to begin with, don't spend thier time advertising on this forum.

Thank you for your assistance.

[stevenl]

So what are the names of the sites you dove?