What'S A University Degree Worth?

[MrBrad]

In speaking with a Thai friend I learned that upon graduation the former students are surprised to learn that there are few--if any--jobs available in their field of study, and when they do find a job they have to accept quite low pay. The guy who rides a motorcycle with saddlebags full of newspapers may well have a bachelor [barinya dree] degree. My friend said that there are countless college/university graduates doing extremely simple, basic jobs, often earning not more than probably 200 baht a day / 5,000 baht a month.

Can this be true? Does the Department of Education provide students with prospects of employment in their chosen field? Why go to school? What's your experience in this regard?

[sarahsbloke]

It's the same all across the world.

You want a job after university, then you need to choose the right course.

[Just1Voice]

I have 2 younger (30-ish) friends, husband and wife, who both received Master's Degrees in English from Thai Universities. They worked for a while here, then decided to head for "greener pastures" of good ole U.S of A. Packed their bags and off they went. Less than 2 years later they returned, disappointed, heartbroken, and even embarrassed. The best job he could get was working at the parts counter of a PEP Boys Automotive shop, and the best she could do was working in a library. They said that they both applied to over 2 dozen school systems to find work, and in every case were told their diplomas were, basically, not worth the paper they were written on. However one school system at least offered to let them take a proficiency test to check their qualifications to teach in the ELEMENTARY level. They both failed the test. Now both are working in a hotel somewhere in BKK. So what does that tell you?

[Lovia]

I have 2 younger (30-ish) friends, husband and wife, who both received Master's Degrees in English from Thai Universities. They worked for a while here, then decided to head for "greener pastures" of good ole U.S of A. Packed their bags and off they went. Less than 2 years later they returned, disappointed, heartbroken, and even embarrassed. The best job he could get was working at the parts counter of a PEP Boys Automotive shop, and the best she could do was working in a library. They said that they both applied to over 2 dozen school systems to find work, and in every case were told their diplomas were, basically, not worth the paper they were written on. However one school system at least offered to let them take a proficiency test to check their qualifications to teach in the ELEMENTARY level. They both failed the test. Now both are working in a hotel somewhere in BKK. So what does that tell you?

I'm planning to get a bachelor degree in Thailand and returns to Singapore to work, now I'm feeling a bit hesitant.

[slapout]

A university degree in the real world indicates the recipient has the intelligence to learn and reason. If you pick the major that is the flavor of the year recruitment wise then you may get a job that requires several weeks/months training. Normally there are job opportunities after university although maybe not in you field of study/interest. Some Universities have a reputation for turning out good potential employees in given fields.

Thailand seems to be lacking at the University reputation level, graduates with reasoning, major field of study in demand by companies who are recruiting, formal training for new hires as well as permanent employees, job opening which even require the mentioned traits. and it can go on from there. The value of a university degree in additional earning potential may not cover the cost in many cases.

[Just1Voice]

I'm planning to get a bachelor degree in Thailand and returns to Singapore to work, now I'm feeling a bit hesitant.

You didn't say what your degree would be for, but I am assuming that perhaps it might also be in English. If so, you might be better going to Singapore than the USA, but I can't say for certain. What I can state for certain is that I have met probably half a dozen people who all proudly proclaim to have Masters in English, and not one of them is capable of speaking the language correctly, and can't even begin to write a single paragraph using correct language and punctuation. However, I do not blame them, as they can only exhibit what they were taught, and if not taught correctly, then they will not learn the correct ways to express themselves. Either way, I wish you luck.

[isanbirder]

The value of the degrees depends on the university and the faculty. For example, Chiangmai University is good for Medicine and Engineering (I'm not condemning the other faculties; I just don't know). In general, though, a degree from a minor university is worth much the same as a High School Diploma in most Western countries.

[crgram]

Thai degrees are not that much different than most in the world, not everyone can get into Harvard or Oxford etc. It's all to common for kids just to get a degree in something that's interesting or just plain easy. Then after they graduate find out that there are no or only low paying jobs related to their education. It's no secrete that teaching doesn't pay much, a degree in political science will get you a job in fast food.

It's always best to find the job you want and then get the education required to make you competitive in that field.

cr

[ChiangMaiFun]

I have 2 younger (30-ish) friends, husband and wife, who both received Master's Degrees in English from Thai Universities. They worked for a while here, then decided to head for "greener pastures" of good ole U.S of A. Packed their bags and off they went. Less than 2 years later they returned, disappointed, heartbroken, and even embarrassed. The best job he could get was working at the parts counter of a PEP Boys Automotive shop, and the best she could do was working in a library. They said that they both applied to over 2 dozen school systems to find work, and in every case were told their diplomas were, basically, not worth the paper they were written on. However one school system at least offered to let them take a proficiency test to check their qualifications to teach in the ELEMENTARY level. They both failed the test. Now both are working in a hotel somewhere in BKK. So what does that tell you?

everybody knows Thai degrees (mostly apart form the very top Universities) will be useless overseas as the validation system here is poor - you can't compare a good American or European degree with Thai - just like a Thai doctor or nurse cannoit work in a farangland hospital without doing tons of extra exams - it tells us the truth... we live in a developing country who's systems are at the twelve year old stage - which is why good Thai family's that can afford it send their offspring overseas.

[Lovia]

I'm planning to get a bachelor degree in Thailand and returns to Singapore to work, now I'm feeling a bit hesitant.

You didn't say what your degree would be for, but I am assuming that perhaps it might also be in English. If so, you might be better going to Singapore than the USA, but I can't say for certain. What I can state for certain is that I have met probably half a dozen people who all proudly proclaim to have Masters in English, and not one of them is capable of speaking the language correctly, and can't even begin to write a single paragraph using correct language and punctuation. However, I do not blame them, as they can only exhibit what they were taught, and if not taught correctly, then they will not learn the correct ways to express themselves. Either way, I wish you luck.

Hi. I'm planning to do a B.A. Bachelor of Arts in Language & Culture in Chulalongkorn University. I'm planning to start my career in the "museums" sector, and hopefully be able to do some research work about the history of Southeast Asia.

Thank for you well wishes, I think I'm going to need it

[Just1Voice]

Hi. I'm planning to do a B.A. Bachelor of Arts in Language & Culture in Chulalongkorn University. I'm planning to start my career in the "museums" sector, and hopefully be able to do some research work about the history of Southeast Asia.

Thank for you well wishes, I think I'm going to need it

Well, maybe your studies will lead you to the true history of Thailand, and not necessarily what is taught in Thai schools, and you can write a book about it and become famous. lol.

Either way, best of luck with your endeavors.

[damian5000]

I think it's much more common in Thailand to have a degree and a semi-menial job in Thailand than in the West. Often it will give them a single step or two up the ladder though. Example, my xgf doesn't have a degree and worked as masseuse at a high end spa, but the girl with the degree works 1/5 as hard as a receptionist and earned a bigger salary (5000 vs 7000 baht)

[damian5000]

I have 2 younger (30-ish) friends, husband and wife, who both received Master's Degrees in English from Thai Universities. They worked for a while here, then decided to head for "greener pastures" of good ole U.S of A. Packed their bags and off they went. Less than 2 years later they returned, disappointed, heartbroken, and even embarrassed. The best job he could get was working at the parts counter of a PEP Boys Automotive shop, and the best she could do was working in a library. They said that they both applied to over 2 dozen school systems to find work, and in every case were told their diplomas were, basically, not worth the paper they were written on. However one school system at least offered to let them take a proficiency test to check their qualifications to teach in the ELEMENTARY level. They both failed the test. Now both are working in a hotel somewhere in BKK. So what does that tell you?

I'm planning to get a bachelor degree in Thailand and returns to Singapore to work, now I'm feeling a bit hesitant.

You'll be fine. Don't let this thread scare you. The degree shows you have the discipline to complete 4 years of study successfully. Your demeanor / resume / appearance / perseverance and the fact that you have a degree will count worlds more than where you got your degree from.

That is assuming you're not applying for work on Wall street or some such.

Edited June 24, 2010 by damian5000

[ChouDoufu]

<br />I have 2 younger (30-ish) friends, husband and wife, who both received Master's Degrees in English from Thai Universities.  They worked for a while here, then decided to head for "greener pastures" of good ole U.S of A.  Packed their bags and off they went.  Less than 2 years later they returned, disappointed, heartbroken, and even embarrassed.  The best job he could get was working at the parts counter of a PEP Boys Automotive shop, and the best she could do was working in a library.  They said that they both applied to over 2 dozen school systems to find work, and in every case were told their diplomas were, basically, not worth the paper they were written on.  However one school system at least offered to let them take a proficiency test to check their qualifications to teach in the ELEMENTARY level.  They both failed the test.  Now both are working in a hotel somewhere in BKK.  So what does that tell you?<br />

<br /><br /><br />

you're serious? you're basing your evaluation of the thai educational system on this anecdote?

i'm assuming from your narrative that these two edumacators, whose mother tongue is thai, took their master's degrees in english and were attempting to find work teaching british english to american college students. that would be silly.

[Just1Voice]

<br />I have 2 younger (30-ish) friends, husband and wife, who both received Master's Degrees in English from Thai Universities. They worked for a while here, then decided to head for "greener pastures" of good ole U.S of A. Packed their bags and off they went. Less than 2 years later they returned, disappointed, heartbroken, and even embarrassed. The best job he could get was working at the parts counter of a PEP Boys Automotive shop, and the best she could do was working in a library. They said that they both applied to over 2 dozen school systems to find work, and in every case were told their diplomas were, basically, not worth the paper they were written on. However one school system at least offered to let them take a proficiency test to check their qualifications to teach in the ELEMENTARY level. They both failed the test. Now both are working in a hotel somewhere in BKK. So what does that tell you?<br />

<br /><br /><br />

you're serious? you're basing your evaluation of the thai educational system on this anecdote?

i'm assuming from your narrative that these two edumacators, whose mother tongue is thai, took their master's degrees in english and were attempting to find work teaching british english to american college students. that would be silly.

No, I am not basing my evaluation of the Thai Educational System just on this single anecdote? I have met close to a dozen people who all boast of having a Master's Degree in English, and have yet to find a single one of them who can speak or write correctly. Most of them have absolutely no grasp of syntax, and their use of verbs and adjectives would be considered laughable by the average 15 or 16 year old student in Western schools, and I'm not talking just the USA. But you also make an interesting point about teaching "British English". Get real! The only people who speak British English are the Brits themselves, while everyone else uses American English. The internet is ample proof of that.

I know of what I write, because my degree is in English Composition & Creative Writing. A year and a half ago I was invited to teach at a well known school in Chiang Mai, but after observing their classes for a week, I politely declined. Rote memorization is not learning. Tests were taken and the students were later given their scores. When I asked why the papers were not returned to the students so they could see what they had answered incorrectly, I was bluntly told: "We don't do that!". I also had a chance to go through the test papers myself and found that some of the answers the teachers had said were wrong, were actually correct, so it was the teacher who was wrong, not the student.

I stick to my belief - The Thai education system is a joke, and a bad one at that.

[Blinky Bill]

Secondary and tertiary education in western countries, ie. Oz, UK, USA, etc., etc., for students from SEA is a huge business.

In these countries you actually have to earn the qualification and it does mean something throughout the world.

[Blinky Bill]

And another point, a hel_l of a lot of the so called English teachers supposedly teaching English in Thailand have a bit of trouble with English themselves.

[Just1Voice]

And another point, a hel_l of a lot of the so called English teachers supposedly teaching English in Thailand have a bit of trouble with English themselves.

Gee, ya think?!?!?!? lol

There's an old saying: "You can't teach what you don't know". Proof of this would be the recent report of something close to 80% of teachers FAILING to pass tests on the subjects they teach!

Ahhh, yes, Amazing Thailand.

[ChiangMaiIB]

the education system is a joke everywhere

[millwall_fan]

One of the problems Thai graduates have is that employers often want them to work for several years for low wages before they can access the goodies - ie a proper graduate job. Many are expected to support family after graduating and can't see the point in hanging on for years with no guarantee of degree level work at the end. One girl who worked for me had a degree in psychology from CMU and could earn more from me : Basic wage + overtime + tips +food + a guaranteed day off per week + Government health scheme.

On just1voice's point "Get real! The only people who speak British English are the Brits themselves, while everyone else uses American English" is simply untrue. Many English speakers prefer to learn British English - it's just a matter of what the learner wants to do with the language. There are schools around Asia that advertise for British/Australian English and of course, most Europeans learn British English - or correct Englsih as we prefer to call it! Admittedly the majority want to learn American English but far from everyone as you suggest.

[elektrified]

the education system is a joke everywhere

That is a ridiculous statement to say the least.

[thomo]

I'm planning to get a bachelor degree in Thailand and returns to Singapore to work, now I'm feeling a bit hesitant.

You could probably do both simultaen... simultani... at the same time.

Work in Singers and send a cheque to the Thai Uni every month. 1st class honours in no time.

[uptheos]

One of the problems Thai graduates have is that employers often want them to work for several years for low wages before they can access the goodies - ie a proper graduate job. Many are expected to support family after graduating and can't see the point in hanging on for years with no guarantee of degree level work at the end. One girl who worked for me had a degree in psychology from CMU and could earn more from me : Basic wage + overtime + tips +food + a guaranteed day off per week + Government health scheme.

This is so common all over Thailand, families pressure girls into earning money so they go to where the better salaries are being paid. These are often farang owned legitimate businesses as mentioned above, or they venture into 'other areas'. There's absolutely nothing wrong with waiting on tables, cooking, cleaning or washing dishes, but it's a little bit sad because these girls (and guys) thought they were heading for greener pastures when they started uni.

[martijn12345]

It is so hard to say. I think a degree in general doesn't mean as much here as in western world where a degree = a degree.

In Thailand you have to ask follow-up questions. What's your degree? And also very important, from which University did you get it. And next question is, where are you looking for a job?

Bangkok will generally pay a lot more then CM, which is still better then what the same degree will give you in Khon Kaen or Udon.

There are lots of people with some basic Bachelor in administration or whatever, that they get no more then 5k-8k month where ever they work. My GF studied Graphic Design in a good BKK university and made 20k+ a month back in BKK. Here in CM, it's hard to find a job (still looking ) but from what we've heard she will be looking at less then half that salary here in CM which doesn't really get her motivated to search harder .

So if you wanna make money, choose your study and University very carefully.

[thomo]

Thailand:

Who you know. Not what degree you have.

Have a relative with some power. Nothing else is needed. Have no connections, it's fairy washing up liquid to keep your hands nice and soft.

[Berkshire]

I have 2 younger (30-ish) friends, husband and wife, who both received Master's Degrees in English from Thai Universities. They worked for a while here, then decided to head for "greener pastures" of good ole U.S of A. Packed their bags and off they went. Less than 2 years later they returned, disappointed, heartbroken, and even embarrassed. The best job he could get was working at the parts counter of a PEP Boys Automotive shop, and the best she could do was working in a library. They said that they both applied to over 2 dozen school systems to find work, and in every case were told their diplomas were, basically, not worth the paper they were written on. However one school system at least offered to let them take a proficiency test to check their qualifications to teach in the ELEMENTARY level. They both failed the test. Now both are working in a hotel somewhere in BKK. So what does that tell you?

A Master's Degree in English from pretty much any university in America wouldn't amount to much in terms of finding a high paying job in the US. Christ, everyone knows that a degree in English is pretty useless in the states, where everyone speaks English. What decent job could it possibly qualify you for? Just curious though (and someone else may have already asked) but were these two friends of yours Thai or American? And what sort of job were they expecting to land with a degree in English?

[Berkshire]

I have 2 younger (30-ish) friends, husband and wife, who both received Master's Degrees in English from Thai Universities. They worked for a while here, then decided to head for "greener pastures" of good ole U.S of A. Packed their bags and off they went. Less than 2 years later they returned, disappointed, heartbroken, and even embarrassed. The best job he could get was working at the parts counter of a PEP Boys Automotive shop, and the best she could do was working in a library. They said that they both applied to over 2 dozen school systems to find work, and in every case were told their diplomas were, basically, not worth the paper they were written on. However one school system at least offered to let them take a proficiency test to check their qualifications to teach in the ELEMENTARY level. They both failed the test. Now both are working in a hotel somewhere in BKK. So what does that tell you?

I'm planning to get a bachelor degree in Thailand and returns to Singapore to work, now I'm feeling a bit hesitant.

You'll be fine. Don't let this thread scare you. The degree shows you have the discipline to complete 4 years of study successfully. Your demeanor / resume / appearance / perseverance and the fact that you have a degree will count worlds more than where you got your degree from.

That is assuming you're not applying for work on Wall street or some such.

Good reply. The key also, is what degree? An engineering or IT degree would be much more marketable than, say, an English or history degree.

[richard10365]

I think there are many valid points made by many people here. Schools in Thailand could be better. Who you know is important. Choose your degree well.

Also there are some statements that many people would disagree with. Such as the Thai educational system is a joke.

There are many factors that will determine the success of failure of graduates in the job market. Realistically speaking, there are a lot of people with tons of expierence and western education but with no jobs. When positions do open up, these expirenced workers are seriously considered by potential employers.

It's unrealistic to think graduating from any university will get you hired into a top job with a great salary. In Thailand, starting at the bottom is how things normally work. Sure there are the exceptions where knowing someone gets you hired. But for most graduates, starting at the bottom is the norm.

Ultimately, it comes down to the individual and their level of motivation. If you are a motivated student you will learn more. You will be more prepared when you do graduate. You will also probably have figured out how to make yourself look more attractive to potential employers.

If you are a lazy student and don't learn anything because you never did your homework or never read the text books, then probably you will only get a job after graduation if you know someone.

It's true, you can go to a university and do enough just to get by, but why would you want to? Don't just depend on the school to educate you, you should do it yourself as well.

[ataloss]

I have 2 younger (30-ish) friends, husband and wife, who both received Master's Degrees in English from Thai Universities. They worked for a while here, then decided to head for "greener pastures" of good ole U.S of A. Packed their bags and off they went. Less than 2 years later they returned, disappointed, heartbroken, and even embarrassed. The best job he could get was working at the parts counter of a PEP Boys Automotive shop, and the best she could do was working in a library. They said that they both applied to over 2 dozen school systems to find work, and in every case were told their diplomas were, basically, not worth the paper they were written on. However one school system at least offered to let them take a proficiency test to check their qualifications to teach in the ELEMENTARY level. They both failed the test. Now both are working in a hotel somewhere in BKK. So what does that tell you?

Hmmm,a lot, for I've heard anecdotal evidence that the MA(English) at a premier uni in Cmai teaches most of the course in Thai, as the MA candidates have difficulty understanding if taught in English.

[Just1Voice]

I have 2 younger (30-ish) friends, husband and wife, who both received Master's Degrees in English from Thai Universities. They worked for a while here, then decided to head for "greener pastures" of good ole U.S of A. Packed their bags and off they went. Less than 2 years later they returned, disappointed, heartbroken, and even embarrassed. The best job he could get was working at the parts counter of a PEP Boys Automotive shop, and the best she could do was working in a library. They said that they both applied to over 2 dozen school systems to find work, and in every case were told their diplomas were, basically, not worth the paper they were written on. However one school system at least offered to let them take a proficiency test to check their qualifications to teach in the ELEMENTARY level. They both failed the test. Now both are working in a hotel somewhere in BKK. So what does that tell you?

A Master's Degree in English from pretty much any university in America wouldn't amount to much in terms of finding a high paying job in the US. Christ, everyone knows that a degree in English is pretty useless in the states, where everyone speaks English. What decent job could it possibly qualify you for? Just curious though (and someone else may have already asked) but were these two friends of yours Thai or American? And what sort of job were they expecting to land with a degree in English?

My friends are Thai. Both landed jobs teaching English in Thai schools, but then decided they could do better in the U.S. Unfortunately, it didn't work out that way. One side note to this is that the woman, after getting a job in a library, had the opportunity to read a lot. She said she discovered that true Thai history is no where near what they teach in Thailand. lol