Thai Fish Sauce, Does It Destroy Your Stomach ?

[steveb]

What is in Thai fish sauce? When I eat something with a lot of fish sauce I always get stomach pains. It seems pretty nasty stuff. What is it? Is it a cause for stomach ulcers?

[Oleg_Rus]

What is in Thai fish sauce? When I eat something with a lot of fish sauce I always get stomach pains. It seems pretty nasty stuff. What is it? Is it a cause for stomach ulcers?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's fermented corpses of fish stock.... Brrrrr... plus magic of MSG, for sure.

as almost everything here, it might cause not just an ulcer, but more fancy cancer. If you feel kinda dry mouth after "tasty" soup - congratulations - you've been poisoned with overdoze of MSG. this fancy "taste enhancer" makes anything tastes really good by screwing something in the head - I got link to more details, somewhere. And as a side effect - all stomach's fun - ulcers, diarea, liver's fun and so on. And what it does to featus of pregnant women, you don't want to know...

[johnh101]

Are you sure Fish Sauce has MSG in it, the bottle I have been using does not have it listed as an ingredient.

Isn't it more likely that the stomach pains come from all the chilli's in the food ?

[Totster]

I think we're talking about two different things...

Nam Plaa - Fish Sauce

Plaa Ra - Fermented fish "stuff"

RE the adding of MSG - I have seen my wifes mother add MSG to the Plaa Ra, albeit a small amount.

totster

[BambinA]

Im not sure na ka.. but maybe it was from your GI (gastro-intestinal) track, is not used to the new food.. we can see in some farang , or traveller when eat new thing, it makes GI upset .. coz lact of some enzyme

Bambi

[Dragonman]

Are you sure Fish Sauce has MSG in it, the bottle I have been using does not have it listed as an ingredient.

Isn't it more likely that the stomach pains come from all the chilli's in the food ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Some have, some haven't. However some bottles have but don't list on ingredients.TiT. Play safe, make your own. Only about 9 months of fermenting fish smells

[chownah]

If you think the fish sauce upsets your stomach then stop using it. I use fish sauce and my wife uses it in cooking and our stomachs are fine. It doesn't seem like 'nasty stuff' to us.

[Dakhar]

Actually, there may be something to OP's original claim that fish sauce causes intestinal issues. I can tell you it sure does for me.

I did a little research and I came up with the theory that the fish "Escolar" (AKA Rudder Fish) is probably in the fish sauce. You see, fish sauce is not always made from a specific type of fish. Many times it is just made up of anything that swam.

If Escolar happens to be one of the fish uses.... you just may have a problem.

Check the link, and then do a google on Escolar if you want more info.

http://www.nbc4.tv/newslinks/1773988/detail.html

[soi lurker]

Are you sure Fish Sauce has MSG in it, the bottle I have been using does not have it listed as an ingredient.

Isn't it more likely that the stomach pains come from all the chilli's in the food ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think so john, the lining of your gut can be sensitive to spicy foods, especially if your stomach is empty, try coating it first with an "alkaline" substance , milk etc...... or just say "mai pet". I think that may be the reason behind what this thread suggests....

[puipuitom]

What is in Thai fish sauce? When I eat something with a lot of fish sauce I always get stomach pains. It seems pretty nasty stuff. What is it? Is it a cause for stomach ulcers?

Fish sauce is for S.E. Asian cooking what salt is for the Western. The genuine fish sauce is the water, or juice, in the flesh of fish that is extracted in the process of prolonged salting and fermentation. The unique characteristic of fish sauce is Clear, transparent, golden brown color (amber), fishy smell salty flavour. It is commonly used as seasoning and replacement of salt for cooking and dipping seafood and oriental food. Fish sauce contains 27-28 grams of salt, 0.6-2 grams of nitrogen and 0.2-0.7 of ammonia nitrogen

It is therefore a major source of mineral salt and but also essential amino acid more than 13 types, especially Lysine. Another component of fish sauce is vitamin B12, which is essential for healthy diet. There is around 1-5 micrograms of vitamin B12 in 100cc

This protein is a complete one containing all the essential amino acids that the body requires for growth and regeneration. It also contains a rich supply of B vitamins, especially B 12 and pantothenic acid, riboflavin and niacin. Other beneficial nutrients include calcium, phosphorous, iodine and iron.

Fish sauce is called differently in each Asian countries e.g. fish sauce, literally 'fish water', is known in Khmer as toeuk trey', in Thai "Nam Pla", the Filipino calls it as "Patis", Chinese calls it as "Yeesui" , Vietnamese as "Nuoc Nam", "shottsuru" in Japan, "ngan-pya-ye" in Burma, "tuk trey" in Cambodia, "nam pa" in Laos.

Also around the classical Mediteranean countries fish sauce was known. in Classical Roman cooking, where in Latin it is known as garum or liquamen, and also existed in many varieties such as oxygarum (mixed with vinegar) and meligarum (mixed with honey). It was one of the trade specialties in Hispania Baetica. The present English Worcestershire sauce is believed to be a “decendant’ of this.

When fish sauce arrived on Southeast Asian tables remains a mystery, but its invention was inevitable. In a region blessed with abundant fish but, even today, lacking refrigeration, people naturally figured out how to preserve this valued protein source. Used like salt in western cooking and soy sauce in Chinese cooking, good-quality fish sauce imparts a distinct aroma and flavor of its own.

Among marine fish, anchovies (Stolephorus sp.). and related species of small schooling fish from two to five inches in length are commonly used, as they can be found in bountiful supply in the coastal waters of the Gulf of Thailand and the South China Sea. As soon as fishing boats return with their catch, the fish are rinsed and drained, then mixed with sea salt – two to three parts fish to one part salt by weight. NO WATER IS ADDED !

Only the fresh anchovy fish makes the good quality fish sauce that is clear in color and good smell. Fish stored too long at 35C+ will form histamine. Furthermore, microrganisms found during fermentation could form histamine through histidine decarboxylation. However, the definite cause of high histamine in fish sauce has not yet been determined.

Levels above 200 mg/kg are NOT allowed into many countries, inclusive the E.U.

By announcement of Thai public health ministry : three types are categorized based on the production process

1. Pure fish sauce : Fish sauce derived from the fermented fish or fish residue.

2. Fish sauce made from other types of animals : The fish sauce made from marinating other types of animals rather than anchovy fish.

3. Diluted fish sauce : Fish sauce that added with non-hazardous additive or flavoring agent.

Quality Requirements: of pure fish sauce (Follows the Thai Industrial Standard Institute)

1. Must have fishy odor and taste of pure fish sauce.

2. Must be clear, no particles added except particles that are formed by the natural fermentation process. (not more than 0.1 gram per 1 liter)

3. Salt content (Sodium Chloride) not less than 200 grams per liter.

4. Total Nitrogen content not less than 9 grams per liter.

5. Amino acid Nitrogen contents between 40%-60% of total Nitrogen.

6. Glutamic acid content per total Nitrogen between 0.4-0.8.

7. No artificial coloring added except caramel color.

8. No artificial sweetener added except sugar.

Grades:

Grades of fish sauces are similar to that of olive oils: extra virgin olive oil is more flavorful and costlier than virgin olive oil. Pure fish sauce is categorized into three classes determined by the total nitrogen content (protein) in fish sauce

The first quality is called "A" grade ,The second "B" grade The third "C" grade

Specification of Fish Sauce (no sugar)

Parameters Grade A Grade B Grade C

Total Nitorgen (g/l) > 20 14-16 9-13

Protein (%) >12.5 >9.38 >7.5

Sodium Chloride (%w/v) 26-27.9 26-27.9 26-28

pH 5.1-5.7 5.1-5.7 5-6

Color (% Transmittance at 550 nm.) 58-68 58-68 55-70

Relative Density at 25°C >1.20 >1.20 >1.20

Total Plate Count (cfu/ml) <1x104 <1x104 <1x104

Coliform negative negative negative

The filtered first grade fish sauce, in Thai: nam plaa thae, direct from the fermented fish + salt, so the water is the body water of the fish itself, is filled into other clean containers and allowed to air out in the sun for a couple of weeks to dissipate the strong fish odours. It is then ready for bottling. The finished product is 100-percent, top-grade, genuine fish sauce.

Interestingly, at no point is the fish sauce pasteurized or subjected to preservatives; the stuff is so salty that bacteria or other nasties can't survive in it.

Second , in Thai called: nam plaa prasom, and third grade fish sauces are made by adding salt water to cover the fish remains, letting sit for 2-3 months each time, then filtering before bottling. These fish sauces contains less protein.

In Vietnam, the first extraction of liquid from the fermented fish is called nuoc mam “nhi” or “thuong hang”, a phrase that appears on the label. Some cooks reserve this premium product for raw uses, such as vinaigrettes, dipping sauces or final off-the-heat seasoning. The Vietnamese island Phu Quoc and Phan Thiet are renowned for its fish sauce.

Because natural fish sauce requires time to make and very fresh, good quality fish, substantial investment is necessary for large-scale production. This has resulted in the proliferation of a number of less-than-pure products as flavour is substantially reduced with each fermentation, top-grade fish sauce is frequently added to the lower grades to improve their flavour.

Some are made by the process of hydrolysis in which some kind of enzyme or acid is added to hasten fermentation, while others are made by diluting natural or hydrolyzed fish sauce with salt water flavoured and coloured with sugar, caramel, monosodium glutamate (m.s.g.), by-products from the production of m.s.g., saccharin, and other natural or artificial flavourings and colouring.

Not always this is 100% honestly declared in the ingredients.

For marinades or cooked dishes, the less expensive blends are used.

Fish sauce doesn't need to be refrigerated, but it should be kept away from light and discarded if it shows signs of oxidation replace it if it darkens. Mostly a shelf life of 2 – 3 years is printed on the product.

Fish sauce made outside S.E. Asia is NOT covered by the national food laws of these countries and NOT a protected name. result is, many creative mixtures out of water, extracts, invert sugar and aromas can legally be produced there and sold as “fish sauce”.

Some also contain hydrolyzed wheat protein (a flavor enhancer similar to monosodium glutamate) or preservatives such as sodium benzoate. If a sauce contains hydrolyzed wheat protein chances are it was made in an accelerated fashion, not by the slow fermentation process that produces flavor naturally. In S.E. Asia it is NOT allowed to be called: “Fish sauce”

Where to use:

In fact you can use fish sauce in many places, where salt in liquid form can be added.

It can be used in a vinaigrette, in a tomato sauce for pasta, or on broccoli rabe or other cooked leafy greens.

Several top cooks adds it to bouillabaisse , to an heirloom-tomato relish for fried calamari, in a splash to fried rice and to a marinade for grilled five-spice chicken. Many chefs mention fish sauce's affinity for beef and use it to season a steak before or after cooking, as dipping sauce for whole roast fish by marinating sliced chiles overnight in fish sauce, replicating a simple condiment found all overSE Asia.

[FBN]

There ye go!!

Everything you ever wanted to know (or not!!) about fish sauce!!

[damian5000]

Why do Thai people put fish sauce on their pork. I love fish, but I want only my fish to taste like fish..Not pork or chicken or rice or my women.

[scottc]

Does anyone know a quality FISH SAUCE without SUGAR added.

[Soutpeel]

There ye go!!

Everything you ever wanted to know (or not!!) about fish sauce!!

Courstey of Wikki of course....

To answer the OP's question....yes fish sauce can knacker your stomach...this come from a Thai doctor at BPH when Mrs Soutpeel went there for stomach problems and was instructed to stay off the fish sauce and yes her stomach compaint got better

Edited April 14, 2011 by Soutpeel

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Salt can be pretty rough on the stomach. Salt cures meat. Salt can cure your insides too.

Also consider that some fish sauces are made from uncooked fish which can harbor parasites called liver flukes. Sometimes the long salt curing process will kill the parasites but sometimes not.

Apparently liver flukes are a big problem in places like Issan and as a whole Thailand is among the highest rates of liver cancer in the world.

I read that most people get the flukes from raw fish dishes but the fish sauce is sometimes the culprit.

Edited April 14, 2011 by CobraSnakeNecktie

[Soutpeel]

Thailand is among the highest rates of liver cancer in the world.

Would suspect this would be due to the Lao Khao consumed...

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

How some liver cancer is caused by parasites

[maxme]

I ve never had problems with fish sauce. I think its kinda like anchovy. I have more problems with tom yam goong since its spicy and sour.

[SantiSuk]

I had the parasite of which you speak last year - opsicarthis viverendi - and very unpleasant it was too. I was hospitalised for a few days in the UK. You may be right about fish sauce but none of the UK or Thai doctors who treated me or websitre research I did mentioned this as a possible source. The most likely culprits are Palaar (rotten mud fish) in Somtam, uncooked fish dishes like Laap Plaa or unwashed herbs from water margins, all of which I had previously had reasonable quantities of at my wife's family home in Isaan.

One Thai doctor told me that the public water supply in Issaan townships is often dosed with small traces of the treatment drug, Praziquantel, but we falang don't usually drink the water so we don't get the protection. I found it hard to believe that they would spend that kind of money and have never seen it confirmed (in English writings) anywhere.

The Thai doctors also said that it goes undiagnosed and untreated in a lot of Issaan dwellers and eventually reemerges form a dormant state and kills off quite a number with cancer. So there you are - a perfect excuse when faced with another bowl of the mother in law's ruddy somtam!