Thai Capital Punishment Needs To Be Further Debated, Say Experts

[webfact]

Capital punishment needs to be further debated, say experts

By Pravit Rojanaphruk

The Nation

Despite the National Human Rights Development Plan to abolish the death penalty by 2013, Thai society needs to engage in frank debate about the merits of the death penalty for those convicted of drugrelated crimes as many still believe capital punishment is the solution, a seminar concluded yesterday.

"We need meaningful debate and in the meantime, a moratorium [for the death penalty] is the best solution," Pairoj Polpeth, secretarygeneral of the Union of Civil Liberty (UCL), said at a seminar organised by the union and the Swiss Embassy.

Pairoj said many Thais still believed violence was the solution for all crimes, but this was giving some people the licence to kill. He said this would not solve the problem with drugs because the dilemma stemmed from poverty and social alienation. Pairoj said that out of the 2 million people arrested for various crimes, 60,000 had failed to apply for bail due to poverty, a proof that many people in jail are simply poor.

"These people are dehumanised and we allow [the state] to commit violence on them. Some people still believe that drug trafficking is like murder, which is not accurate," he said.

Chulalongkorn University law professor Vithit Muntrabhorn said that according to the United Nations, drug trafficking was not one of "the most serious offences" and capital punishment should not be applicable to it.

Vithit said it was unfortunate and bad for Thailand's reputation that it had executed two drug traffickers last year despite a sixyear de facto moratorium on capital punishment.

"What was it for? It wasn't worth it. It goes against the global trend," he said.

At present, 179 countries have abolished capital punishment, while Thailand is one of the 20 countries that still practises legal execution.

The professor said whether it likes it or not, Thailand would have to follow its master plan on humanrights development and abolish the death penalty in four years.

Meanwhile, Swiss Ambassador Christine Schraner Burgener said she wondered why a Buddhist country like Thailand would continue to condone capital punishment. She said Switzerland had abolished the penalty back in 1973.

One participant from the Justice Ministry said Thailand should not be forced to abolish capital punishment, adding that many Thais supported the penalty and warned that if the punishment were lifted, drug trafficking would only increase. He also added that Thailand was in a unique location, considering it was surrounded by drugproducing nations.

Pairoj opposed the hypothesis that the abolition of capital punishment would lead to a proliferation of drugs, saying research in other countries had proven otherwise.

Kobkoon Chantawaro, legal adviser to the Office of Narcotics Control Board (ONCB) said it was too early to debate the issue in Parliament. "If we send the matter there we will fail to communicate," he said, adding that more debate was definitely needed.

Danthong Breen, chairman of UCL, said it was cruel for people, such as the two who were executed last year, to be told one hour in advance that they were to be put to death. In this case, the convicts were playing chess in prison.

-- The Nation 2010-07-30

[jayjay0]

Back in 1995 I took a couple of classes in criminology. The belief of the time backed up by research was that the death penalty was not a deterrent to crime. Many Criminals would rather die than live in prison for the rest of there lives.

Given the condition of the Thai prisons I can see a lot of validity in that belief. Perhaps it is time to do away with the death penalty.

I might add that, that statement is my mind talking. My emotions say hang them all.

[RKASA]

All it does is make enforcement and capture of people more dangerous - Flight and fight because they face death. Do law enforcement officers a favor and end the death penalty. It is not preventing crimes of passion and only complicates other matters. Besides Thailand is acting like it is a fake Buddhist Nation by keeping it. Only continue the death penalty if senior well known monks are required to carry out the sentences.

[grayfield18]

I am against the death penalty especially in drug related cases.

Look at America it is a disproportionate amount of ethnic minorities that face the death penalty.

Far more importantly the states that do and the states that don't have roughly the same murder rates as each other. Which seems to remove the deterrent point of view. That of course is in murder cases not drug matters.

[indyuk]

Killing is a cultural problem. In that respect Thailand is still a third world Nation.

To kill a Thai for a violent crime is not productive. One needs to find a way to

soften Thai culture and traditions to the point where men a women no longer

feel the urge to kill people that spite them.

[asiawatcher]

Having had a drug pusher demoralise and destroy a life close to me - I would gladly have pulled the trigger but someone beat me to it. Drug dealers and capital offenses such as murder - why not? Drugs destroy people, family and young lives. Parasites prey on weaknesses and for no other reason than monetary gain against actually working honestly for a living, and people with mind sets of sociopaths also should be removed from society.

I am afraid I believe in capital punishment especially in left wing extremist terrorism cases. They want martyrdom? Let me assist.

[elkangorito]

The "Law" has never worked. Killing people has never worked. The crimes reappear all the time. It is therefore crystal clear that the death penalty doesn't work.

It may be worthwhile to note the reason for crimes in certain countries. For example, crimes in western countries seem to mostly be 'greed' motivated or 'psycho' motivated. This is opposed to the type of crime in developing countries, which seems to be predominantly motivated by poverty.

Therefore, it appears that in any society, there will be criminals. It also appears that extermination doesn't work & nor does it alleviate the problem. In actual fact, the extermination of criminals may exacerbate the whole problem.

I really despise the legal system in western countries, which is tiotally geared to satisfy the emotions of 'victims' (revenge) rather than trying to solve the criminal problem.

[DickFarang]

“...Some people still believe that drug trafficking is like murder, which is not accurate ...”

No, worse.

Dealers kill anonymously.

[MaxRobespierre]

Thailand needs to request that the United States, Australia, England etc reduce drug demand in their respective countries rather than taking easiest, most medieval and disgusting attitude towards their own citizens.

[DickFarang]

The "Law" has never worked. Killing people has never worked. The crimes reappear all the time. It is therefore crystal clear that the death penalty doesn't work.

It may be worthwhile to note the reason for crimes in certain countries. For example, crimes in western countries seem to mostly be 'greed' motivated or 'psycho' motivated. This is opposed to the type of crime in developing countries, which seems to be predominantly motivated by poverty.

Therefore, it appears that in any society, there will be criminals. It also appears that extermination doesn't work & nor does it alleviate the problem. In actual fact, the extermination of criminals may exacerbate the whole problem.

I really despise the legal system in western countries, which is tiotally geared to satisfy the emotions of 'victims' (revenge) rather than trying to solve the criminal problem.

In “civilised” countries there is more concern about (the well-being of) the criminals, than about their victims.

[anotheruser]

However unlikely it would be to happen, one crime that punishable by death is regicide. God forbid if this ever happened I could not see the death penalty not being applied. So I guess that the death penalty will remain on the books in Thailand for a long time to come even if it is not practiced for most crimes. The figure of 179 countries abolishing the death penalty and 20 still applying it seems a bit off to me. I looked on wiki and could count around 70 places that still have it. I wasn't counting countries that had it with moratoriums or countries where info wasn't giving regarding the crimes eligible for it.

There are over 30 countries in Asia alone that use it. Interestingly enough Asia seems like the death penalty capitol of the world. Okay some people are going to say well many of those are mid east countries. Well 17 of them are in places that are what anybody could consider Asia. Cambodia is the only country near by that doesn't have it. I don't really have any point here but found it interesting to look at the places where it is allowed. It seems the figure given by the author of the article is inaccurate and meant to marginalize capital punishment in order to justify their viewpoint.

I am beginning to think that capital punishment doesn't really make a difference anyway. However sometimes when in extreme cases it doesn't bother me in the slightest when it is used. Feel free to quote me but please don't bark at me with pro or anti death penalty rants as I really was just looking at this out of curiosity and don't care either way.

[fiercesnake]

Major problem is with capitol punishment is if we get the wrong person and execute them, then find out later, we can't say, oh sorry let him or her out and pay compensation. THEY ARE DEAD! It's simply too late and from what I've seen of the Thai police I'd be REAL worried if I was accused of a crime, especially if I didn't do it.

I just don't feel that they are exceptionally switched on with the latest technological advances in forensics, or for that matter modern investigative techniques. Most of them seem too interested in collecting tea money from hapless motorbike drivers over questionable minor offenses than solving real crime.

[whybother]

However unlikely it would be to happen, one crime that punishable by death is regicide. God forbid if this ever happened I could not see the death penalty not being applied. So I guess that the death penalty will remain on the books in Thailand for a long time to come even if it is not practiced for most crimes. The figure of 179 countries abolishing the death penalty and 20 still applying it seems a bit off to me. I looked on wiki and could count around 70 places that still have it. I wasn't counting countries that had it with moratoriums or countries where info wasn't giving regarding the crimes eligible for it.

There are over 30 countries in Asia alone that use it. Interestingly enough Asia seems like the death penalty capitol of the world. Okay some people are going to say well many of those are mid east countries. Well 17 of them are in places that are what anybody could consider Asia. Cambodia is the only country near by that doesn't have it. I don't really have any point here but found it interesting to look at the places where it is allowed. It seems the figure given by the author of the article is inaccurate and meant to marginalize capital punishment in order to justify their viewpoint.

I am beginning to think that capital punishment doesn't really make a difference anyway. However sometimes when in extreme cases it doesn't bother me in the slightest when it is used. Feel free to quote me but please don't bark at me with pro or anti death penalty rants as I really was just looking at this out of curiosity and don't care either way.

North America has 11 countries (nearly 50%) that have the death penalty. Africa - 25 (also near 50%). It seems that Oceania is the most civilised with no countries having the death penalty, and Europe with 1 (Belarus). (but it's late - they might not be exact figures). Asia has about 60% with the death penalty.

[Nignoy]

Australia does not need executions, it has Vegemite a punishment worse than death :jap:

[ableguy]

The "Law" has never worked. Killing people has never worked. The crimes reappear all the time. It is therefore crystal clear that the death penalty doesn't work.

It may be worthwhile to note the reason for crimes in certain countries. For example, crimes in western countries seem to mostly be 'greed' motivated or 'psycho' motivated. This is opposed to the type of crime in developing countries, which seems to be predominantly motivated by poverty.

Therefore, it appears that in any society, there will be criminals. It also appears that extermination doesn't work & nor does it alleviate the problem. In actual fact, the extermination of criminals may exacerbate the whole problem.

I really despise the legal system in western countries, which is tiotally geared to satisfy the emotions of 'victims' (revenge) rather than trying to solve the criminal problem.

The crimes may reappear but they are not repeat crimes by the same individual. Which must be beneficial to society.

[jayjay0]

However unlikely it would be to happen, one crime that punishable by death is regicide. God forbid if this ever happened I could not see the death penalty not being applied. So I guess that the death penalty will remain on the books in Thailand for a long time to come even if it is not practiced for most crimes. The figure of 179 countries abolishing the death penalty and 20 still applying it seems a bit off to me. I looked on wiki and could count around 70 places that still have it. I wasn't counting countries that had it with moratoriums or countries where info wasn't giving regarding the crimes eligible for it.

There are over 30 countries in Asia alone that use it. Interestingly enough Asia seems like the death penalty capitol of the world. Okay some people are going to say well many of those are mid east countries. Well 17 of them are in places that are what anybody could consider Asia. Cambodia is the only country near by that doesn't have it. I don't really have any point here but found it interesting to look at the places where it is allowed. It seems the figure given by the author of the article is inaccurate and meant to marginalize capital punishment in order to justify their viewpoint.

I am beginning to think that capital punishment doesn't really make a difference anyway. However sometimes when in extreme cases it doesn't bother me in the slightest when it is used. Feel free to quote me but please don't bark at me with pro or anti death penalty rants as I really was just looking at this out of curiosity and don't care either way.

North America has 11 countries (nearly 50%) that have the death penalty. Africa - 25 (also near 50%). It seems that Oceania is the most civilised with no countries having the death penalty, and Europe with 1 (Belarus). (but it's late - they might not be exact figures). Asia has about 60% with the death penalty.

Last time I looked North America only has three countries.

[jayjay0]

The "Law" has never worked. Killing people has never worked. The crimes reappear all the time. It is therefore crystal clear that the death penalty doesn't work.

It may be worthwhile to note the reason for crimes in certain countries. For example, crimes in western countries seem to mostly be 'greed' motivated or 'psycho' motivated. This is opposed to the type of crime in developing countries, which seems to be predominantly motivated by poverty.

Therefore, it appears that in any society, there will be criminals. It also appears that extermination doesn't work & nor does it alleviate the problem. In actual fact, the extermination of criminals may exacerbate the whole problem.

I really despise the legal system in western countries, which is tiotally geared to satisfy the emotions of 'victims' (revenge) rather than trying to solve the criminal problem.

Ya I am not big on there legal systems either. What they need is a JUSTICE system.

My criminology instructor taught us that when you went to court you could feel confident that legal would be done. Justice well that was another matter.

[geovalin]

"He also added that Thailand was in a unique location, considering it was surrounded by drugproducing nations." so childish, stupid and insulting. With such idea, Thailand will not solve the problem.

By the way, Death Penalty is NOT a debate. Either you are a human being and you are against or you are a savage and you are for. It's perfectly your right to be for the death penalty, just be conscious you are a savage, that's it.

[whybother]

North America has 11 countries (nearly 50%) that have the death penalty. Africa - 25 (also near 50%). It seems that Oceania is the most civilised with no countries having the death penalty, and Europe with 1 (Belarus). (but it's late - they might not be exact figures). Asia has about 60% with the death penalty.

Last time I looked North America only has three countries.

The North American *continent* also includes countries in Central America.

I got my lists from: http://geography.about.com/library/maps/blrnorthamerica.htm

But there is also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_North_American_countries_and_territories

Some of them surprise me too, but the sources seems legitimate.