Uk Settlement Dilemma

[joelives]

I have lurked here for a while and am very thankful for the many informative posts, but I cannot find anything that specifically addresses this problem.

My wife and I were married in 2005 and have together in Thailand and also Japan since 2004. We previously applied, in Thailand, for three family visit visas which were approved almost immediately without interview, in 2007 and 2008 and 2009.

It has now come to light that my wife changed her name when her parents divorced about twelve years ago, into her mother's name. She did not tell me this when we applied for the visitor visas and so the section "1.3 Other names (including any other names you are known by and/or any other names that you have been known by)" was left blank on all three applications. Apparently she didn't think it was important when she filled in the forms, or maybe she didn't understand properly, or whatever, and it didn't cross my mind to quiz her on the subject.

We are now applying for a settlement visa, and I am concerned that if we now provide her previous name, the fact that false information was given on the family visit applications will be reason to refuse the settlement visa, whereas if we don't provide her previous name, and they have the ability to check it, that would also be reason to refuse. On the other hand, it would appear that *if* they had the ability to check, then it would have come to light when the family visit visas were applied for. But then again, perhaps they have more stringent checks for settlement (but can they really check this, particularly since it's so long ago ?)

She doesn't have any police record under either name, and all her documentation including all passports, salary slips etc are in her new name since the name change was so long ago (when she was 20).

Any advice ?

Thanks

Joe

[BWPattaya]

Personally I would leave well alone. They granted visas earlier, she visited and returned to Thailand afterwards, thus demonstrating good behaviour. This may be taken into consideratin when you apply for the next visa.

I understand your dilemma though.

[sonicdragon]

Dupe

Edited August 6, 2010 by sonicdragon

[AjarnChan]

Personally I would leave well alone. They granted visas earlier, she visited and returned to Thailand afterwards, thus demonstrating good behaviour. This may be taken into consideratin when you apply for the next visa.

I understand your dilemma though.

I agree, better not to bring up anything 'unusual'.

My Thai/Chinese wife has four 'nationalites', Thai because she was born here, Malaysian because her Chinese mother was born in Penang, Chinese because her father never adopted Thai nationality and Irish from marrying me. From all of that she acquired four names and accidentally three conflicting dates of birth. We once tried to explain it all to an official in the UK back in 1998. He simply said, "Fascinating, and I believe you 100% but I suggest you never tell another soul." We have kept quiet ever since. In the past year the Thai authorities have cleaned up her records and it is now officially as if it never happened.

It all came about because of a mixture of moves, misunderstandings and illegible writing on old forms by various village headmen. There was never any intention to deceive. In any event during my 13 years experience over here I have noticed many Thais have multiple names especially amongst the Chinese community, not to mention infinite nicknames. It really seems to be quite common. Many people we know change their names as often as I change my hairstyle, often because the previous name brought 'bad luck', or so they thought.

Good luck with your application I am sure it will all be fine

PS - forgot to mention that I am a French/Irish/English/Scottish 'mongrel', with distant Chinese ancestry, two legitimate Passports and several different names 'within the family'. It really is not at all unusual to be known by different names in different contexts, at least where I come from. Given the high divorce rates in many nations it must surely be getting to the point where millions find themselves in a similar situation.

Edited August 6, 2010 by AjarnChan

[joelives]

Thanks for the replies.

This is also my gut feeling, and I find it hard to believe (but I wouldn't be shocked if it were the case) that the embassy can check whether an applicant has changed their name 10+ years ago.

But I also believe that honesty is the best policy, and maybe that would be seen as a positive thing, however the crux of the matter is:

- If she now divulges her former name, AND the ECO checks the previous visit application (which they presumably do) AND notices that it was not given previously (which they presumably would), does this *automatically* result in the settlement visa being refused ? I understand that giving false information can lead to being banned from further applications for 10 years. Is this a hard and fast rule, or what ? It's not as if she previously went to the UK, overstayed, then changed her name and is now trying to go back (at least, I hope not anyway, haha).

Other than this problem, I believe we have a very strong application - heaps of documentation proving our relationship (two year old daughter, joint bank account, correspondence showing same address in Thailand, lots of photographs); I own a house in the UK (not mortgaged) which is currently let out but the lease expires in September and the tenants have given notice to move out; and I have an offer of a job to start on 1 Dec.

[ThaiVisaExpress]

If you have had three previous visas approved I can see little problem in any fresh application.

RFL4.3 What is a false representation?

A false representation is when an applicant or third party lies or makes a false statement in an application, either orally or in writing. The application must be refused even if the false representation is not relevant to the application or your decision and even if the applicant was not aware that false representations, information or documents have been used.

However, you must should not refuse an applicant because you suspect that false representations have been made or because of minor inaccuracies in the application, for example an inaccurate address or mis-spelt name on a visa application form.

http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/en/ecg/refusals/deceptioninanapplication#21388482

[ThaiVisaExpress]

We have just got a client a visa after supplying fresh evidence on her behalf, she used a Bangkok based agent based in the UK/Vac who failed to insert various important documents with her application. The Eco advised they refused the application under paragraph 320 (7 a) and any future applications maybe refused under paragraph (7b) the applicant is now in the UK.

[joelives]

If you have had three previous visas approved I can see little problem in any fresh application.

RFL4.3 What is a false representation?

A false representation is when an applicant or third party lies or makes a false statement in an application, either orally or in writing. The application must be refused even if the false representation is not relevant to the application or your decision and even if the applicant was not aware that false representations, information or documents have been used.

However, you must should not refuse an applicant because you suspect that false representations have been made or because of minor inaccuracies in the application, for example an inaccurate address or mis-spelt name on a visa application form.

http://www.ukvisas.g...cation#21388482

Thanks for that !

According to the link you quoted, it would seem better that we do give her former name in the new application, since there would be no false representation and therefore no grounds for refusal. Whereas, if we don't give her former name, and the ECO discovers this, the visa will be automatically, refused. Right ?

However, is there anything that guides the ECO if information is given in a new application, which indicates that a false representation was made in a previous successful application ?

Edited August 6, 2010 by joelives

[7by7]

They can, and do, check previous applications; both those from the applicant and any sponsored by the sponsor.

The relevant part of the immigration rules is Refusal of entry clearance or leave to enter the United Kingdom; Para 320

(7B) subject to paragraph 320(7C), where the applicant has previously breached the UK's immigration laws by:

(d) using Deception in an application for entry clearance, leave to enter or remain (whether successful or not);

(7C) Paragraph 320(7B) shall not apply in the following circumstances:

(a) where the applicant is applying as:

(i) a spouse, civil partner or unmarried or same-sex partner under

paragraphs 281 or 295A,

(My emphasis)

However, Para 320(11) does say

(11) where the applicant has previously contrived in a significant way to frustrate the intentions of these Rules. Guidance will be published giving examples of circumstances in which an applicant who has previously overstayed, breached a condition attached to his leave, been an Illegal Entrant or used Deception in an application for entry clearance, leave to enter or remain (whether successful or not) is likely to be considered as having contrived in a significant way to frustrate the intentions of these Rules.

(My emphasis)

But I cannot see that forgetting to put her previous name on a visit application would bee seen as "contriving in a significant way!" Unless, of course, she had made previous applications under her old name which she wished to hide; which I am sure is not the case.

My advice is always that honesty is the best policy; so I would advise explaining the previous errors on her visit applications in your sponsor's letter; but the choice is yours.

[joelives]

Ahh, new information has come to light which I think goes a long way to explaining why we are in this situation.

I have a copy of the form that I'm pretty sure we used for at least one of the family visit applications, and possibly all, and it does not ask if the applicant has been known by any other name. It's a form "VAF1 OCT 2006". I have uploaded it here. Unfortunately we don't have completed copies of the forms we used. Just this blank one.

But I have checked the latest VAF1 form for family visits "VAF1B NOV 2008" which definitely does ask about previous names.

We applied for her 2009 family visit in July 2008, so if the form that I have uploaded was current up until Nov 2008, we are in the clear. Does anyone here know if that was the case ? I guess that's a tough question, so does anyone know how I can get that info ? Should I contact ukvisas.gov.uk and explain the situation informally ?

Obviously if we used this form before for all 3 applications then there is no problem and we can just go ahead and give her previous name. That would also explain why this didn't crop up before, and why my wife is rather noncommital about why she didn't give her previous name before.

VAF1Oct06,0.pdf

[Tee2008]

Why not just complete the form with all the current and correct information, then add a covering letter to give the history ( as you have done here) and explaining that there was no deceipt or misrepresenation intended in the previous applications. State that the new information would not have made any material difference to the previous applications, nor does it to the current application. Beg forgiveness and understanding that your wife made a mistake on her earlier applications !

[ThaiVisaExpress]

Add it to the extra information I cannot see this being an issue.

[7by7]

Agreed, I don't see anything to worry about; simply briefly explain it as you have here.

BTW, I've edited my previous post to highlight parts of the quotes from the immigration rules to emphasis that your wife is highly unlikely to be refused under these paragraphs.

[joelives]

Thank you all very much for your advice