Junk Steering And I-Shift On Jazz ?

[Velocette]

Uk web sites contain a plethora of moans, groans and complaints about the Jazz. It is littered with people who had to replace the complete steering assembly of their Jazz, at their own expense. They claim that it is nigh impossible at speed to safely maintain a straight line. Saying that they are obliged to make constant corrections, as if the power steering is constantly switching itself off and on. Also that the steering does not return to centre even driving slowly.

Neither Honda or their service centres acknowledge this steering problem, some owners have replaced their steering more than once. Naturally there are many angry owners out there.

Other faults appear to be the replacement for the very successful, original CVT auto box, to the I-shift, which is difficult to drive smoothly, often lurching about and jerky. In fact the previous Jazz with the original good auto has increased in value as people search for them avoiding the new dreaded I-shit.

Other moans were having to replace rear wheel bearings too quickly, corroding rear discs and epg valves. And curiously, cracking windscreens due to large glass sunroofs that lack rigidity.

My question is, does the Thai Jazz have the same dodgy steering assembly ? . . . .and does it also have the same I-shift box ?

[pattayabuggy]

Hello, I haven't a clue about the Jazz, just intrigued with your log in. Are you or were you a Velocette owner? I have owned so many bikes I have completely lost count. Just the one Velo, a Viper, back in the 60's. Still have very fond memories of that bike.

Sorry, off topic.

[onnut]

my wife had the older model Jazz the one before this new one. when I drove that it felt like it was a supermarket trolly on the motorway, I did not like it. also that needed the bearings needed changing on that after 8 months from new. and the gear box (auto) went after 2.5 years. not impressed, anyway, my wife gave it to her sister and when her sister sold it 1.5 years later, she went right out and bought the new one!

she says she is happy with it, but there is no way I would drive it long distance. I had the new accord at the time and there was a huge difference in stearing as there should be between two different cars but the Jazz did feel unsafe and I couldnt get used to it.

[Velocette]

Hello, I haven't a clue about the Jazz, just intrigued with your log in. Are you or were you a Velocette owner? I have owned so many bikes I have completely lost count. Just the one Velo, a Viper, back in the 60's. Still have very fond memories of that bike.

Sorry, off topic.

Yes I was ! . . .my first Velo was the 200cc opposed ohv flat twin, with twin carbs and shaft drive, the Valiant, on which I passed my test. It was developed from the side valve whispering Le Velo that "plod" used to sneak up on those 'loitering with intent' . . . . . " cor, never erd you cumin' guvnor, it's a fair cop !" . . .The Valiant in all fairness to Velocette was an excellent small bike, smooth and pokey for it's day, and looked just like a small BMW. After that I had various bikes then got a Viper in Clubmans trim, which was really the Biz. I too have very fond memories, priceless.

And lest we not forget , in 1961 a production Venom managed to do over the 'ton' for 24 hours, a record still unbeaten by any 500, to this day, no mean feat.

Velocette produced excellent bikes, with first class engineering, such a shame that like all the other Brit bikes they couldn't compete, for so many reasons, with the Japanese. As your no doubt aware an Indian company took the production of Enfield singles, complete with all the old factories machinery for same, I've often lamented that they didn't do the same with the big Velo singles as there such a classier machine.

Anyway, happy days when we were at the height of our 'studlyness' and full of testosterone !

[pattayabuggy]

Hello, I haven't a clue about the Jazz, just intrigued with your log in. Are you or were you a Velocette owner? I have owned so many bikes I have completely lost count. Just the one Velo, a Viper, back in the 60's. Still have very fond memories of that bike.

Sorry, off topic.

Yes I was ! . . .my first Velo was the 200cc opposed ohv flat twin, with twin carbs and shaft drive, the Valiant, on which I passed my test. It was developed from the side valve whispering Le Velo that "plod" used to sneak up on those 'loitering with intent' . . . . . " cor, never erd you cumin' guvnor, it's a fair cop !" . . .The Valiant in all fairness to Velocette was an excellent small bike, smooth and pokey for it's day, and looked just like a small BMW.  After that I had various bikes then got a Viper in Clubmans trim, which was really the Biz. I too have very fond memories, priceless.

And lest we not forget , in 1961 a production Venom managed to do over the 'ton' for 24 hours, a record still unbeaten by any 500, to this day, no mean feat.

Velocette produced excellent bikes, with first class engineering, such a shame that like all the other Brit bikes they couldn't compete, for so many reasons, with the Japanese. As your no doubt aware an Indian company took the production of Enfield singles, complete with all the old factories machinery for same, I've often lamented that they didn't do the same with the big Velo singles as there such a classier machine.

Anyway, happy days when we were at the height of our 'studlyness' and full of testosterone !

Mmm, I keep doing this, changing the topic, sorry we were discussing the Jazz, ohh yawn, forget it, back to Velocettes. You know I have never ever, ever seen a Valiant in the flesh, only pictures. I always thought how nice it looked. How many did they actually sell, couldn't have been many? The Noddy bike, the LE was very common, and believe it or not I have even seen one here!

My Viper was the standard job, I was knocking about at the time with older guys all on Cafe Racer 650's, they were constantly amazed how I could keep up. On the straights they would leave me for dead, but with that excellent handling and good brakes, for the period, I would catch them up in the twistys, great fun.

I always lusted after a Thruxton, never got one, I genuinly think that is the most beautiful motorcycle ever made, it's not just a bike, it's a piece of art!  Anyway, I managed to get to own a Vincent Rapide and a Norvin, so didn't do so bad.

That Viper, apart from the Miller electrics was very reliable, and it didn't leak oil either, excellent engineering. I agree far better than Enfields, or oilfields we used to call them.

Yes the 24 hour record, excelent achievement.

I love talking about this stuff.

[pattayabuggy]

Hello, I haven't a clue about the Jazz, just intrigued with your log in. Are you or were you a Velocette owner? I have owned so many bikes I have completely lost count. Just the one Velo, a Viper, back in the 60's. Still have very fond memories of that bike.

Sorry, off topic.

Yes I was ! . . .my first Velo was the 200cc opposed ohv flat twin, with twin carbs and shaft drive, the Valiant, on which I passed my test. It was developed from the side valve whispering Le Velo that "plod" used to sneak up on those 'loitering with intent' . . . . . " cor, never erd you cumin' guvnor, it's a fair cop !" . . .The Valiant in all fairness to Velocette was an excellent small bike, smooth and pokey for it's day, and looked just like a small BMW.  After that I had various bikes then got a Viper in Clubmans trim, which was really the Biz. I too have very fond memories, priceless.

And lest we not forget , in 1961 a production Venom managed to do over the 'ton' for 24 hours, a record still unbeaten by any 500, to this day, no mean feat.

Velocette produced excellent bikes, with first class engineering, such a shame that like all the other Brit bikes they couldn't compete, for so many reasons, with the Japanese. As your no doubt aware an Indian company took the production of Enfield singles, complete with all the old factories machinery for same, I've often lamented that they didn't do the same with the big Velo singles as there such a classier machine.

Anyway, happy days when we were at the height of our 'studlyness' and full of testosterone !

Mmm, I keep doing this, changing the topic, sorry we were discussing the Jazz, ohh yawn, forget it, back to Velocettes. You know I have never ever, ever seen a Valiant in the flesh, only pictures. I always thought how nice it looked. How many did they actually sell, couldn't have been many? The Noddy bike, the LE was very common, and believe it or not I have even seen one here!

My Viper was the standard job, I was knocking about at the time with older guys all on Cafe Racer 650's, they were constantly amazed how I could keep up. On the straights they would leave me for dead, but with that excellent handling and good brakes, for the period, I would catch them up in the twistys, great fun.

I always lusted after a Thruxton, never got one, I genuinly think that is the most beautiful motorcycle ever made, it's not just a bike, it's a piece of art!  Anyway, I managed to get to own a Vincent Rapide and a Norvin, so didn't do so bad.

That Viper, apart from the Miller electrics was very reliable, and it didn't leak oil either, excellent engineering. I agree far better than Enfields, or oilfields we used to call them.

Yes the 24 hour record, excelent achievement.

I love talking about this stuff.

[pattayabuggy]

Tell you what, I just remembered this I drove to BKK last week, I was driving my Audi on a bad stretch of road, and I passed a Honda Jazz, the Honda was all over the place, I was quite shocked. I was doing twice his speed and everything was steady with my car.

I remarked to my girlfriend how unstable it looked. It would seem you have a point, and there is some problem with these cars.

[robblok]

Got a new Honda Jazz the top model just a few months old and its great. No problem keeping straight what so ever. Great little car would not buy any other car. And if i want i can use paddle shifts instead of normal gear. But I have to admit i almost never do that.

[pattayabuggy]

Tell you what, I just remembered this I drove to BKK last week, I was driving my Audi on a bad stretch of road, and I passed a Honda Jazz, the Honda was all over the place, I was quite shocked. I was doing twice his speed and everything was steady with my car.

I remarked to my girlfriend how unstable it looked. It would seem you have a point, and there is some problem with these cars.

Could be just the driver, or pissed driver eh.

Ha, ha, I thought someone would say that, but that clearly wasn't the problem, the bumps seemed to be making the driver veer from left to right. I peered over as I passed and the Thai driver looked very uncomfortable, sort of holding the steering in an iron grip and with clenched teeth.

I thought as I passed, that these Jap cars aren't half as good as what they are made out to be. My last girlfriend had a Suzuki Vitara, and it was a crap car, very cute looking I agree, but apart from that crap in every respect. I have never owned a Japanese car, I still stick to European cars, not easy here.

I keep thinking I should change my ways, as spares and maintenance are so difficult with anything non Japanese here. My other problem is I find almost all Japanese cars pig ugly, maybe that's not really true, I should say all the Japanese cars available here, perhaps my age!

[robblok]

Tell you what, I just remembered this I drove to BKK last week, I was driving my Audi on a bad stretch of road, and I passed a Honda Jazz, the Honda was all over the place, I was quite shocked. I was doing twice his speed and everything was steady with my car.

I remarked to my girlfriend how unstable it looked. It would seem you have a point, and there is some problem with these cars.

Could be just the driver, or pissed driver eh.

Ha, ha, I thought someone would say that, but that clearly wasn't the problem, the bumps seemed to be making the driver veer from left to right. I peered over as I passed and the Thai driver looked very uncomfortable, sort of holding the steering in an iron grip and with clenched teeth.

I thought as I passed, that these Jap cars aren't half as good as what they are made out to be. My last girlfriend had a Suzuki Vitara, and it was a crap car, very cute looking I agree, but apart from that crap in every respect. I have never owned a Japanese car, I still stick to European cars, not easy here.

I keep thinking I should change my ways, as spares and maintenance are so difficult with anything non Japanese here. My other problem is I find almost all Japanese cars pig ugly, maybe that's not really true, I should say all the Japanese cars available here, perhaps my age!

You see one car and you make a statement... sounds like you did a lot of research. You cant even be sure if it was just lack of maintenance.. a drunk Thai or the problem you describe.

So far the jazz has won many awards in Europe and Asia so it is an good car where the experts are concerned. I must say i love the way my car drives. I also see many many other Jazz and never the problem you describe. There are quite a lot of Jazz's so it would be easy to see others on bumpy roads and do a comparison. Or.... ... make a test ride in one that way you really know what your talking about.

[Velocette]

Got a new Honda Jazz the top model just a few months old and its great. No problem keeping straight what so ever. Great little car would not buy any other car. And if i want i can use paddle shifts instead of normal gear. But I have to admit i almost never do that.

Honda Jazz (December 2002)

words - Glenn Butler There's no doubting the Honda Jazz raises the benchmark for compact cars in Australia. It's economical to run, incredibly roomy and versatile, it's even zippy. Shame then, it's let down by a too jiggly, too firm ride. Glenn Butler reports Honda's not happy. A number of Australia's motoring journalists were taken to task by Honda Australia for their opinion on the Jazz and its deficiencies. Like CarPoint, they found the rear suspension setup firm and unyielding, at times making the Jazz more than a handful to keep on the bitumen.

Like CarPoint they found the Jazz's steering lacking. It's lifeless, remote and inconsistently weighted, giving you very little clue to what the front end is doing. At highway speeds the Jazz is prone to wandering, in corners the Jazz is more difficult than it should be to direct accurately and confidently.

Like CarPoint, and to be fair, everyone attending the half-day launch in Sydney was impressed with the Jazz's packaging, drivetrain refinement, and especially its fuel economy. But like CarPoint, full marks were withheld because the chassis lets the rest of the Jazz down.

If you want to read our first test, follow this link. Click Here. Now, CarPoint has spent more than a quick afternoon in the Jazz. We managed to wangle a 1.3-litre GLi manual out of Honda Australia for a week-long test. Everyday driving, everyday uses, everyday life. But did it change our opinion of Honda's funky little number? Did our week with the Jazz change our perspective on its flaws and finery?

Nope. Not one bit.

Look. Let's get a couple of things clear from the get-go. The Honda Jazz is a truly brilliant small car. It is revolutionary in its approach to a number of things; fuel economy and interior packaging are two examples where Jazz is far ahead of the rest. It's undoubtedly impressive value for money on paper, and stacks the goodies extremely high given its $16-$24k asking price.

The Jazz is let down in a couple of fundamental areas, and one in particular can be laid at the feet of economic rationalisation. Let's punish that whipping boy a bit more, shall we.

Did you know that Honda puts the same basic suspension system as the Jazz into the Civic and the CR-V. Sure, there's something to be said for saving costs by getting the most usage out of component development. But does an inner city, 1010kg compact car have the same requirements as a 1485kg small/medium-sized four wheel drive?

The Jazz's front suspension is too firm, the rear even more so. Passengers and driver alike will feel the jiggle long after the bump or speed hump has been conquered. And rear seat passengers aren't likely to stay cheery for long, for while the seats are good, firm and supportive, the ride sends shockwaves along the spine.

So, let's recap, and get all this in perspective. The Jazz scores incredibly well on our clipboard in the following areas: Engine and transmission, fuel economy (astounding!), safety, interior space and versatility, refinement and build quality.

The Jazz scores crosses against its wooden, lifeless steering, similarly wooden pedals and way too firm ride. And the funny thing is Honda had two suspension tunes to choose from for Australia, and they picked the harder European-developed one. We wonder if the Japanese one is better suited to our roads...

When shopping in the compact, city car class and price range, the Jazz is - at the time of writing - as good as you'll get. If you asked for a star rating we'd be stamping four out of five on its forehead, and seriously thinking about adding a half. The kicker is, it could easily have grabbed the fifth, if the ride wasn't so obviously and annoyingly deficient.

[pattayabuggy]

Tell you what, I just remembered this I drove to BKK last week, I was driving my Audi on a bad stretch of road, and I passed a Honda Jazz, the Honda was all over the place, I was quite shocked. I was doing twice his speed and everything was steady with my car.

I remarked to my girlfriend how unstable it looked. It would seem you have a point, and there is some problem with these cars.

Could be just the driver, or pissed driver eh.

Ha, ha, I thought someone would say that, but that clearly wasn't the problem, the bumps seemed to be making the driver veer from left to right. I peered over as I passed and the Thai driver looked very uncomfortable, sort of holding the steering in an iron grip and with clenched teeth.

I thought as I passed, that these Jap cars aren't half as good as what they are made out to be. My last girlfriend had a Suzuki Vitara, and it was a crap car, very cute looking I agree, but apart from that crap in every respect. I have never owned a Japanese car, I still stick to European cars, not easy here.

I keep thinking I should change my ways, as spares and maintenance are so difficult with anything non Japanese here. My other problem is I find almost all Japanese cars pig ugly, maybe that's not really true, I should say all the Japanese cars available here, perhaps my age!

You see one car and you make a statement... sounds like you did a lot of research. You cant even be sure if it was just lack of maintenance.. a drunk Thai or the problem you describe.

So far the jazz has won many awards in Europe and Asia so it is an good car where the experts are concerned. I must say i love the way my car drives. I also see many many other Jazz and never the problem you describe. There are quite a lot of Jazz's so it would be easy to see others on bumpy roads and do a comparison. Or.... ... make a test ride in one that way you really know what your talking about.

Yes, I agree, hardly extensive research, just passing a casual comment  on an observation, that's all. He could have been driving it to the repair shop, who really knows? I don't care enough to do extensive resaerch, for what?

[Velocette]

Got a new Honda Jazz the top model just a few months old and its great. No problem keeping straight what so ever. Great little car would not buy any other car. And if i want i can use paddle shifts instead of normal gear. But I have to admit i almost never do that.

Hi Robblok,

I'm delighted that your Jazz is performing perfectly ! . .congrats on your new car I sincerely hope that your are never afflicted with the dreaded 'steering syndrome' that afflicts so many in Europe and Oz. And it's quite possible that you never will, not all UK Jazz owners have to replace their steering, but many do. Perhaps the Thai Jazz has a different steering column, it's quite possible. You do not say if your Jazz has the i-shift or the regular 5 or 7 speed auto box . My wife wants a Jazz but I was aware of these possible problems, so thought I would do research on the Thai spec Jazz. My intention was intention was not to invoke a heated debate ! . . merely to get some facts.

I do appreciate that you have spent a lot of money buying your Jazz , it's a big investment for anyone. And we are all very sensitive about our 'motors' , the image we feel they project, what a car maybe says about us as people, and as men, I know it can all get a bit 'Freudian' to say the least. Anyway enjoy your Jazz

[robblok]

Got a new Honda Jazz the top model just a few months old and its great. No problem keeping straight what so ever. Great little car would not buy any other car. And if i want i can use paddle shifts instead of normal gear. But I have to admit i almost never do that.

Hi Robblok,

I'm delighted that your Jazz is performing perfectly ! . .congrats on your new car I sincerely hope that your are never afflicted with the dreaded 'steering syndrome' that afflicts so many in Europe and Oz. And it's quite possible that you never will, not all UK Jazz owners have to replace their steering, but many do. Perhaps the Thai Jazz has a different steering column, it's quite possible. You do not say if your Jazz has the i-shift or the regular 5 or 7 speed auto box . My wife wants a Jazz but I was aware of these possible problems, so thought I would do research on the Thai spec Jazz. My intention was intention was not to invoke a heated debate ! . . merely to get some facts.

I do appreciate that you have spent a lot of money buying your Jazz , it's a big investment for anyone. And we are all very sensitive about our 'motors' , the image we feel they project, what a car maybe says about us as people, and as men, I know it can all get a bit 'Freudian' to say the least. Anyway enjoy your Jazz

I dont feel fruedian about a car, else i might have gone for a big car like a manly pickup or something like that. But i just made the comment to that poster that one jazz that seems a bit out of control hardly warrants condemning all the Thai Jazz's. I don't really call that an heated argument.

To be honest i don't know if it has i shirt or the regular 5 or 7 speed autobox. I only know i bought it a few months ago so its new. I also know i can put it in auto or use paddle shift to change gears just like a normal car (minus the clutch).

The reason i bought the Jazz is quite simple it won many awards and was real big for such a small car and you can load almost anything in it. I wanted a hatchback because i have dogs. So my choices were limited also i wanted a small car for BKK traffic.

[robblok]

http://www.honda.co.th/en/showroom/honda_jazz.html

Here you can see the specifications in english (was real hard to find)

Seems that it has 5 SPEED AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION WITH GRADE LOGIC CONTROL,

DIRECT CONTROL AND SHIFT HOLD SYSTEM. I dont know what it means but sounds nice

[DMC1]

I've owned a Jazz 1.5 V-TEC for the past 3.5 years - no problems so far with anything

[WarpSpeed]

Got a new Honda Jazz the top model just a few months old and its great. No problem keeping straight what so ever. Great little car would not buy any other car. And if i want i can use paddle shifts instead of normal gear. But I have to admit i almost never do that.

Honda Jazz (December 2002)

words - Glenn Butler There's no doubting the Honda Jazz raises the benchmark for compact cars in Australia. It's economical to run, incredibly roomy and versatile, it's even zippy. Shame then, it's let down by a too jiggly, too firm ride. Glenn Butler reports Honda's not happy. A number of Australia's motoring journalists were taken to task by Honda Australia for their opinion on the Jazz and its deficiencies. Like CarPoint, they found the rear suspension setup firm and unyielding, at times making the Jazz more than a handful to keep on the bitumen.

Like CarPoint they found the Jazz's steering lacking. It's lifeless, remote and inconsistently weighted, giving you very little clue to what the front end is doing. At highway speeds the Jazz is prone to wandering, in corners the Jazz is more difficult than it should be to direct accurately and confidently.

Like CarPoint, and to be fair, everyone attending the half-day launch in Sydney was impressed with the Jazz's packaging, drivetrain refinement, and especially its fuel economy. But like CarPoint, full marks were withheld because the chassis lets the rest of the Jazz down.

If you want to read our first test, follow this link. Click Here. Now, CarPoint has spent more than a quick afternoon in the Jazz. We managed to wangle a 1.3-litre GLi manual out of Honda Australia for a week-long test. Everyday driving, everyday uses, everyday life. But did it change our opinion of Honda's funky little number? Did our week with the Jazz change our perspective on its flaws and finery?

Nope. Not one bit.

Look. Let's get a couple of things clear from the get-go. The Honda Jazz is a truly brilliant small car. It is revolutionary in its approach to a number of things; fuel economy and interior packaging are two examples where Jazz is far ahead of the rest. It's undoubtedly impressive value for money on paper, and stacks the goodies extremely high given its $16-$24k asking price.

The Jazz is let down in a couple of fundamental areas, and one in particular can be laid at the feet of economic rationalisation. Let's punish that whipping boy a bit more, shall we.

Did you know that Honda puts the same basic suspension system as the Jazz into the Civic and the CR-V. Sure, there's something to be said for saving costs by getting the most usage out of component development. But does an inner city, 1010kg compact car have the same requirements as a 1485kg small/medium-sized four wheel drive?

The Jazz's front suspension is too firm, the rear even more so. Passengers and driver alike will feel the jiggle long after the bump or speed hump has been conquered. And rear seat passengers aren't likely to stay cheery for long, for while the seats are good, firm and supportive, the ride sends shockwaves along the spine.

So, let's recap, and get all this in perspective. The Jazz scores incredibly well on our clipboard in the following areas: Engine and transmission, fuel economy (astounding!), safety, interior space and versatility, refinement and build quality.

The Jazz scores crosses against its wooden, lifeless steering, similarly wooden pedals and way too firm ride. And the funny thing is Honda had two suspension tunes to choose from for Australia, and they picked the harder European-developed one. We wonder if the Japanese one is better suited to our roads...

When shopping in the compact, city car class and price range, the Jazz is - at the time of writing - as good as you'll get. If you asked for a star rating we'd be stamping four out of five on its forehead, and seriously thinking about adding a half. The kicker is, it could easily have grabbed the fifth, if the ride wasn't so obviously and annoyingly deficient.

Sorry but.......His criticisms are based on ignorance and his limited understanding which is limited to the aesthetics and personal comfort aspects and not the actual engineering behind it. Sounds like nothing more then one persons limited opinion and not based on any sort of empirical or practical experience about suspension set up just what HE prefers in ride quality without the first clue as to why it is that way. Maybe he would just rather drive a marshmallow or something?? It's because the car is so small, short wheel based and light but with a relatively large payload capacity that it drives the way it does which is why it has to be sprung the way it is or otherwise it would bottom out and have adverse camber and toe changes on mere road ripples and be a far greater danger and ride instability when it's carrying a full load, the worst and most dangerous time.

The reality is there is no way to fulfill every requirement or request for every driver and every load scenario most especially in a basement budget package such as this. Every aspect of handling they are referring to (which is quite overly dramatic by the way designed to sell publications) would be well understood and anticipated by a qualified specialist instead of a simple journalistic critic which this guy clearly is regardless of what job he has been 'qualified' to do (more then a few of those around)..

Every aspect of load capacity effects the entire suspension set up so a compromise has to be made. The engineers have to compensate for that load difference which is going to effect every other aspect of the cars handling characteristics when not under load and every one of those he is describing is directly related to that heavy load scenario. Since it is not possible to strengthen the suspension under heavy load conditions on a whim when required they have engineered the suspension to handle those loads and compromised unloaded ride and handling expecting the average driver not to be overly concerned with the minor differences.. Because of the size of the chassis and wheel base these effects are felt more dramatically then say a pick up truck which has similar characteristics though a longer, wider wheel base so less dramatic when unloaded as has been mentioned on here previously too..

This is a kin to the fact that they (manufacturers) set up the average street car to corner with a push instead of over-steer because a push is easier for the average driver to control instead of spinning out of control, they only have to let off the gas and correct their course..

Clearly his knowledge of suspension is extremely limited as his first comparison about the CRV and Civic is already leaving out the load characteristics of this cars capacity in relation.

Shame critics like this guy get so much unwarranted press as they need a wider capacity for understanding the dynamics of such things as suspension before they trash what is otherwise a nice, universal and affordable package..

[WarpSpeed]

Got a new Honda Jazz the top model just a few months old and its great. No problem keeping straight what so ever. Great little car would not buy any other car. And if i want i can use paddle shifts instead of normal gear. But I have to admit i almost never do that.

Hi Robblok,

I'm delighted that your Jazz is performing perfectly ! . .congrats on your new car I sincerely hope that your are never afflicted with the dreaded 'steering syndrome' that afflicts so many in Europe and Oz. And it's quite possible that you never will, not all UK Jazz owners have to replace their steering, but many do. Perhaps the Thai Jazz has a different steering column, it's quite possible. You do not say if your Jazz has the i-shift or the regular 5 or 7 speed auto box . My wife wants a Jazz but I was aware of these possible problems, so thought I would do research on the Thai spec Jazz. My intention was intention was not to invoke a heated debate ! . . merely to get some facts.

I do appreciate that you have spent a lot of money buying your Jazz , it's a big investment for anyone. And we are all very sensitive about our 'motors' , the image we feel they project, what a car maybe says about us as people, and as men, I know it can all get a bit 'Freudian' to say the least. Anyway enjoy your Jazz

It sounds more like dodgy camber and toe changes magnified by smaller, narrower tires coupled with an unfamiliarity and inability of new drivers (likely mostly female) to adjust to the lighter front end weight of the jazz and the power assist feature which is not activated at higher speeds such as highway speeds so you get more steering feed back on a very small rack which magnifies any drifting or bumps as well as aero lift on the already light front end. It is the future of cars so it is the drivers that need to adjust not the other way around.

My advice is to purchase a good front splitter to plant the front end more at speed and also reduce front end lift as well as anticipate the significant difference from around town, low speed driving when the power assist is aiding the driver versus the highway when they are using the same system but only without the power assist in effect so the steering will feel a bit more delayed and soft as it is not a rack and pinion for example it has to move fluid back and forth through the reservoir and system when you steer and that gives it a bit of a soft feel and delay in reaction which is again magnified by the weight, size of tires and wheel base..

JFYI I don't own a Jazz so I have no dog in this fight but I have driven them on a number of occasions and made the trip from Bangkok to Phuket and back in one with quite a load..

Edited September 15, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[Velocette]

http://www.honda.co....honda_jazz.html

Here you can see the specifications in english (was real hard to find)

Seems that it has 5 SPEED AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION WITH GRADE LOGIC CONTROL,

DIRECT CONTROL AND SHIFT HOLD SYSTEM. I dont know what it means but sounds nice

Hi Robblok,

Thanks for that info, yes it seems you do not have the dreaded i-shift, instead you have the 5 speed auto box ( the Brits previously had the 7 speed version, which was also good) I guess with the 'shift hold' you can choose to remain in auto or use the paddles to change gear manually, a usefull option.

Happy motoring !

[robblok]

@warpspeed.. you dont own a Jazz.. i do but you seem to know a lot more about it. I just drive and I like the way it drives

[Velocette]

Got a new Honda Jazz the top model just a few months old and its great. No problem keeping straight what so ever. Great little car would not buy any other car. And if i want i can use paddle shifts instead of normal gear. But I have to admit i almost never do that.

Hi Robblok,

I'm delighted that your Jazz is performing perfectly ! . .congrats on your new car I sincerely hope that your are never afflicted with the dreaded 'steering syndrome' that afflicts so many in Europe and Oz. And it's quite possible that you never will, not all UK Jazz owners have to replace their steering, but many do. Perhaps the Thai Jazz has a different steering column, it's quite possible. You do not say if your Jazz has the i-shift or the regular 5 or 7 speed auto box . My wife wants a Jazz but I was aware of these possible problems, so thought I would do research on the Thai spec Jazz. My intention was intention was not to invoke a heated debate ! . . merely to get some facts.

I do appreciate that you have spent a lot of money buying your Jazz , it's a big investment for anyone. And we are all very sensitive about our 'motors' , the image we feel they project, what a car maybe says about us as people, and as men, I know it can all get a bit 'Freudian' to say the least. Anyway enjoy your Jazz

It sounds more like dodgy camber and toe changes magnified by smaller, narrower tires coupled with an unfamiliarity and inability of new drivers (likely mostly female) to adjust to the lighter front end weight of the jazz and the power assist feature which is not activated at higher speeds such as highway speeds so you get more steering feed back on a very small rack which magnifies any drifting or bumps as well as aero lift on the already light front end. It is the future of cars so it is the drivers that need to adjust not the other way around.

My advice is to purchase a good front splitter to plant the front end more at speed and also reduce front end lift as well as anticipate the significant difference from around town, low speed driving when the power assist is aiding the driver versus the highway when they are using the same system but only without the power assist in effect so the steering will feel a bit more delayed and soft as it is not a rack and pinion for example it has to move fluid back and forth through the reservoir and system when you steer and that gives it a bit of a soft feel and delay in reaction which is again magnified by the weight, size of tires and wheel base..

JFYI I don't own a Jazz so I have no dog in this fight but I have driven them on a number of occasions and made the trip from Bangkok to Phuket and back in one with quite a load..

Mmmm . . . . . .Firstly we'll overlook the sexist remarks that the girls cannot steer miaow ! . . .secondly, I have no knowledge of physics . . .so you may well be correct with your theory regarding handling, but how does it explain that those who replace their steering then claim to have steering that feels perfect and just like they always remembered it to be in previous cars ? . . .these claims don't seem exaggerated, and so many from male drivers too !

When you advise fitting ' front splitters' , forgive my ignorance, are they front spoilers to push the front down at speed ? . . .either way, having driven a Jazz some distance you do acknowledge some form of deficiency or lack of feel, saying ithe steering feels soft and delayed, which in itself sounds a little disturbing, it does sound like a design fault. I mean maybe we could live with soft steering, but 'delayed' , even that word rings alarm bells. Then disturbingly you add that this is the future, and that we should just adapt to it . . . .that just sounds a little bit spooky to me. I thought technology was meant to improve and reassure,by giving the feeling of control, not to challenge and make people feel fearful.

Yet curiously, you don't personally seem to harbour any anxiety regarding your driving experience with the Jazz. So I guess for you it seemed safe and predictable.

Anyhoo (as the Canadians say) . . .the original thread was about people attempting to drive in a straight line at speed, who were obliged to continiously make small corrections to go in a straight line. Which they had never experienced in their previous cars, and which they found disturbing, stressful and potentially dangerous. I may be that the Thai Jazz does not have the same problem or to quite the same degree. Also I'm not sure if your saying it doesn't feel as natural at speed as a rack and pinion system would.

Either way Warpspeed, I do appreciate your input and analysis,it's certainly food for thought.

[WarpSpeed]

@warpspeed.. you dont own a Jazz.. i do but you seem to know a lot more about it. I just drive and I like the way it drives

Yeah??? People here are so tender it's like having to talk to children to avoid hurting their feelings even when they aren't the ones being addressed... You have some thought that I am addressing you in some critical way ? On the contrary I'm agreeing with you <deleted>!!!! Gawd!! Such hypersensitivities abound..

I don't need to own one to make a qualified evaluation. I have driven them a combined length of time that far exceeds the author of the article criticizing it which more then qualifies me to make an informed comment on it even more so then the author...

Edited September 15, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[Spoonman]

I has a 2008 Jazz for a while, I thought the steering was terrible, zero feedback through the electric steering and lazy to self correct made it a chore to drive.

[WarpSpeed]

Mmmm . . . . . .Firstly we'll overlook the sexist remarks that the girls cannot steer miaow ! . . .secondly, I have no knowledge of physics . . .so you may well be correct with your theory regarding handling, but how does it explain that those who replace their steering then claim to have steering that feels perfect and just like they always remembered it to be in previous cars ? . . .these claims don't seem exaggerated, and so many from male drivers too !

First off, nothing sexist, realist.....

The problem with general blanket claims is there no way to address them in general terms especially not having seen nor driven the cars personally but one major factor in replacing any steering rack is the need to re-align the car and it is more likely that was the correction made that cured the problem intentionally or otherwise..

As well any number of other issues may have been the problem all of which was addressed when the work was done either intentionally or accidentally if it wasn't specifically diagnosed I.E. parts changers.. There is ALWAYS a possibility that there was some failure of any system but to make a blanket statement saying it was the steering rack in all cases without actually being there and speaking intelligently with the technician there is no way of knowing the true culprit..

When you advise fitting ' front splitters' , forgive my ignorance, are they front spoilers to push the front down at speed ?

In spite of what some here would like to brand me as, I'm always willing to inform a novice so I don't expect one to know, no need to apologize for your lack of understanding it is when someone claims to know and displays otherwise and then argues the color of the sky that I loose patience, case in point the poster a few posts up from this post who has nothing but rubbish and thread hijacking to offer. . .

Yes that's correct and in some cases actually provide more then just an attractive accessory this is one of those cases..

either way, having driven a Jazz some distance you do acknowledge some form of deficiency or lack of feel, saying ithe steering feels soft and delayed, which in itself sounds a little disturbing, it does sound like a design fault.

It's not a design fault I explained it quite clearly.. Could be a component glitch however but that is not conclusively established..

Edited September 15, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

Continued:

I mean maybe we could live with soft steering, but 'delayed' , even that word rings alarm bells. Then disturbingly you add that this is the future, and that we should just adapt to it . . . .that just sounds a little bit spooky to me. I thought technology was meant to improve and reassure,by giving the feeling of control, not to challenge and make people feel fearful.

It doesn't make most fearful just some drivers who lack confidence no car is perfect for everyone. If one is not comfortable with the car they should have test driven it better and made a better decision on their purchase, if not they should live with it or sell it, the delay or soft feel is quite manageable and hardly a reason for concern once you know what's behind it you just adjust and drive accordingly..

Yet curiously, you don't personally seem to harbour any anxiety regarding your driving experience with the Jazz. So I guess for you it seemed safe and predictable.

Yes, no worries

Anyhoo (as the Canadians say) . . .the original thread was about people attempting to drive in a straight line at speed, who were obliged to continiously make small corrections to go in a straight line. Which they had never experienced in their previous cars, and which they found disturbing, stressful and potentially dangerous. I may be that the Thai Jazz does not have the same problem or to quite the same degree. Also I'm not sure if your saying it doesn't feel as natural at speed as a rack and pinion system would.

Either way Warpspeed, I do appreciate your input and analysis,it's certainly food for thought.

It's not just Candians that say that but I'll overlook your bias

Not running in a straight line at speed is what I addressed, it is directly related to the angle of the tires on the road and any possible road surfaces they may be running on. On a car with a light front end in this case toe and camber alignments are a more prominent factor in the way the car tracks and once it is at speed the front end lift experienced on the front tires effects the toe and the camber and makes the car 'track' based on any groves for example in the road which is common when a road has been traveled continuously and as well roads are also pitched or 'crowned' for drainage and these smaller cars are just more prone to feeling these imperfections in the road with all of their quirks regarding tire sizes, load characteristics, toe, camber and suspension stiffness...

This causes drift and a constant vigilant need for corrections. Some adjustments can be made from factory specs to account for this if for example one doesn't use their car for carrying very large loads very often.. Too much camber coupled with toe conflicts either negative or positive will give the front steering a light feel, too negative more so, positive a heavier feel and then a light feel once correction has crossed a center point and friction moves the tire and makes it seem as if it is 'floating' and not 'tracking' properly, this is magnified at high speeds due to various road conditions and more air flow under the car causing more lift which heavier cars don't feel as much under the same circumstances,add in the power assist providing the mentioned softer feel and wah la you have the problem described..

Edited September 15, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[robblok]

@warpspeed.. you dont own a Jazz.. i do but you seem to know a lot more about it. I just drive and I like the way it drives

Yeah??? People here are so tender it's like having to talk to children to avoid hurting their feelings even when they aren't the ones being addressed... You have some thought that I am addressing you in some critical way ? On the contrary I'm agreeing with you <deleted>!!!! Gawd!! Such hypersensitivities abound..

I don't need to own one to make a qualified evaluation. I have driven them a combined length of time that far exceeds the author of the article criticizing it which more then qualifies me to make an informed comment on it even more so then the author...

Warp you misunderstood me.. it was a full out compliment. I really dont know much about cars and you seem to know a lot about it. I just said your a smart guy. That still stands.

[WarpSpeed]

@warpspeed.. you dont own a Jazz.. i do but you seem to know a lot more about it. I just drive and I like the way it drives

Yeah??? People here are so tender it's like having to talk to children to avoid hurting their feelings even when they aren't the ones being addressed... You have some thought that I am addressing you in some critical way ? On the contrary I'm agreeing with you <deleted>!!!! Gawd!! Such hypersensitivities abound..

I don't need to own one to make a qualified evaluation. I have driven them a combined length of time that far exceeds the author of the article criticizing it which more then qualifies me to make an informed comment on it even more so then the author...

Warp you misunderstood me.. it was a full out compliment. I really dont know much about cars and you seem to know a lot about it. I just said your a smart guy. That still stands.

I guess so, my apologies then if that's the case and as usual others seize on the misinterpreted meaning as well.. :jap:

No need to bleat on but the way your post started out I hope you can see how it could have been misconstrued..

Just so you know? Saying that is probably going to get you a few reds from the dog pack...

Edited September 15, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[katabeachbum]

@warpspeed.. you dont own a Jazz.. i do but you seem to know a lot more about it. I just drive and I like the way it drives

Yeah??? People here are so tender it's like having to talk to children to avoid hurting their feelings even when they aren't the ones being addressed... You have some thought that I am addressing you in some critical way ? On the contrary I'm agreeing with you <deleted>!!!! Gawd!! Such hypersensitivities abound..

I don't need to own one to make a qualified evaluation. I have driven them a combined length of time that far exceeds the author of the article criticizing it which more then qualifies me to make an informed comment on it even more so then the author...

Warp you misunderstood me.. it was a full out compliment. I really dont know much about cars and you seem to know a lot about it. I just said your a smart guy. That still stands.

I guess so, my apologies then if that's the case and as usual others seize on the misinterpreted meaning as well.. :jap:

No need to bleat on but the way your post started out I hope you can see how it could have been misconstrued..

Just so you know? Saying that is probably going to get you a few reds from the dog pack...

Which Jazz is being discussed here, 2002 to 2007 or 2007-2011? In LOS they share the same 1,5 4 valve engine (for those of the old model having 4 valves), but except for that not one part in common. Actually engine is not identical neither.

In addition Jazz comes with 2 or 3 different suspension setups and steering ratios, LOS usually selling the US spec with light steering and soft suspension.

As for the article stating Jazz, Civic and CRV coming with same suspension, utter b-llsh-t. On the contrary, each of them have different suspension and steering for different markets, making at least 30 different combinations. Check part numbers for those not believing.

There is no secret electric power steering does not give same feeling with frontwheels as an hydaulic one, but I find present Jazz in LOS spec to be a decent ride, on par or above most.

In adition, LOS Jazz is made from LOS made parts, UK Jazz mostly from EU made parts. Not much identical.

Edited September 15, 2010 by katabeachbum

[robblok]

Don't worry warp I don't care too much about others. I just mean you seem to know your stuff and i cant disprove anything you say as i lack the knowledge. So I made a compliment and I meant it. What is between you and others on this board does not really concern me. Anyay.. I love the Jazz and so does the gf. Once my dad comes here in a few months he will cast his verdict and he has driven many more cars then me.

[WarpSpeed]

Which Jazz is being discussed here, 2002 to 2007 or 2007-2011? In LOS they share the same 1,5 4 valve engine (for those of the old model having 4 valves), but except for that not one part in common. Actually engine is not identical neither.

In addition Jazz comes with 2 or 3 different suspension setups and steering ratios, LOS usually selling the US spec with light steering and soft suspension.

As for the article stating Jazz, Civic and CRV coming with same suspension, utter b-llsh-t. On the contrary, each of them have different suspension and steering for different markets, making at least 30 different combinations. Check part numbers for those not believing.

There is no secret electric power steering does not give same feeling with frontwheels as an hydaulic one, but I find present Jazz in LOS spec to be a decent ride, on par or above most.

In adition, LOS Jazz is made from LOS made parts, UK Jazz mostly from EU made parts. Not much identical.

This is the problem I had with the generality of the post and the article, the one posted was from 2002 so lumping the current car and varying market requirements etc. some years later is really stretching the goal posts....