Sex And Thailand

[kat]

I can't think of why Vit might be rattled, I mean it's only his people you're talking about. I really don't see why that would rattle any one.

Of course, so many here post assuming that all posters are white, yes. So, why would Vit be rattled when everyone here is discussing the land of his birth and his people like a Jerry Springer talk show. I am not even going to say anything about why anyone would become a prostitutes, it happens all over the world, but sitting around picking on the Thais and their sex trade problems just doesn't seem right to me. It doesn't matter why it happens, it shouldn't happen. We all know it has to do with money, people need money, and for us, who I can only assume have never been prostitutes, to try judge or speak like we know why or what it's like is out of line. Most of what I have read is nothing more than speculation anyway with no concrete evidence to back it up, it's just what white people think of Thai prostitutes.

So, I cant imagine why Vti might be "rattled". Mai ben rai, Vit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can understand why Vit might be rattled; I've been there myself. But my researching or discussing the issue doesn't amount to treating it like a "Jerry Springer talk show". Just because you couldn't care less, or are happy with easy, dismissive explanations, shouldn't doom the rest of us to your non-thinking reasoning.

Edited July 20, 2005 by kat

[BambinA]

what's a hot topic !!

TIME OUT

brb .. Nature calls!

relax you guys...

Bambi

[meom]

... I just don’t think that prostitution is the only viable, available or respectable avenue for success...

You're right which is probably the reason why most women do not become prostitutes.

[uncle paul]

... I just don’t think that prostitution is the only viable, available or respectable avenue for success...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're right which is probably the reason why most women do not become prostitutes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Now we are getting somewhere

[meom]

... I just don’t think that prostitution is the only viable, available or respectable avenue for success...

You're right which is probably the reason why most women do not become prostitutes.

Now we are getting somewhere

Not only that; most women that do become prostitutes do not stay in the trade forever. They don't all die of aids either so for most there is a way out I suppose and it's a temporary job.

[britmaveric]

Case in point - my mates bday all the lads went on the piss. Stopped in this whiskey bar - enclosed bar w/aircon with diff sorts of whiskeys. There were ladies working - chatted with young lady from BKK. Asked her what she did before she started work here - she said work for electronics firm in BKK. I wasn't gobsmacked because I know all sorts of ladies with good jobs dabble in the prostitution trade. I stopped back there a week later and apparently she had quit and is back working in BKK at her old job at the electronics firm. The lesson to be learned is some ladies realize its not for them even if the wages are high. However that being said - if someone wants to work in this line of business who are we to judge?

Edited July 20, 2005 by britmaveric

[Vit42]

Nothing wrong with a hot topic (it’s 93 degrees F here), just as long as we are all having fun, not insulting each other’s intelligence, and maybe learn a thing or two without thinking we’ve figured it and everyone else is too stupid. Rattle me all you want, I’m always interested in understanding you’re views as long as they are somehow substantiated.

Most of the rambling below is an answer to kat's last post to me so don't read if you're already sick of the debate.

Something about research, it’s not fact. Far from it, especially when it comes to anthropological study of a current existence. Social research is not math or science where absolutes can be eventually quantified one way or another. It is a lot of bias and conjecture that can only be relatively correlated to the sample size and controls in your group. “Understanding and acknowledging is a matter of fact”, not so, it’s simply understanding and acknowledging, not fact.

I am a thai American, meaning I’m originally a thai citizen who has immigrated to the u.s. and become an American citizen. Is that somehow misleading? I arrived in the states when I was six and have been back to Thailand numerous times for stays as long as 1-6 months. Does this make me less qualified or you more qualified to comment about Thailand social norms?

Perhaps I should start my own personal research on American prostitutes and see whether or not they planned to become prostitutes from girlhood. Would this be more valid than a PBS report on the same topic? I think that PBS would be a more authentic source then little, unknown me.

Kat, I’d have serious reservation about the validity of any report that placed many of the burdens of prostitution on the shoulder’s of the women. Ask a battered wife here in the u.s. why she doesn’t leave her husband and you’ll often hear about how she thinks its her fault. You can conclude from this “report” that women chose to be battered but I think it’s not telling the truth. These women are so worn done by their abuse that it becomes a part of their reality. The reality is the abuser is to blame. How do you solve this problem… educate and support the women and help them find a better way.

[Dakhar]

My mother... bless her heart...

She asked me how it was my wife escaped being sold into prostitution...

My mom meant well, and she knows my wife came from an extremely humble background. Living in a trully homeless family, sleeping on the ground etc.

Now, her mother has worked her way up, and is actually pretty wealthy. My wife, married a fellow (me) that is financially fit.

But any how, I thought the question was a little weird, and the only explanation I have is that my wife's family are "Thai to the bone." Just because prositutes are accepted, it doesn't make prositution accpetable. Her family has way too much pride to ever go to that point. "Thai to the bone," they are. In some respects it is anoying, but in some ways, I guess that is what kept my wife away from a life of prostitution.

Now, we are a happy couple, with a beutiful baby boy.... Funny how life can be full of changes.

[Buff-horns]

actually 'no money no honey' is derived from a very old term used in London taverns 100s of years ago.,When prostitutes in old London taverns were heard to say 'no money no cunny' when confronted with a punter with not enough cash to pay for sex.

So It was originally known as 'no money no cunny' but has been changed in LOS to something slightly different.

[thaibebop]

I can't think of why Vit might be rattled, I mean it's only his people you're talking about. I really don't see why that would rattle any one.

Of course, so many here post assuming that all posters are white, yes. So, why would Vit be rattled when everyone here is discussing the land of his birth and his people like a Jerry Springer talk show. I am not even going to say anything about why anyone would become a prostitutes, it happens all over the world, but sitting around picking on the Thais and their sex trade problems just doesn't seem right to me. It doesn't matter why it happens, it shouldn't happen. We all know it has to do with money, people need money, and for us, who I can only assume have never been prostitutes, to try judge or speak like we know why or what it's like is out of line. Most of what I have read is nothing more than speculation anyway with no concrete evidence to back it up, it's just what white people think of Thai prostitutes.

So, I cant imagine why Vti might be "rattled". Mai ben rai, Vit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can understand why Vit might be rattled; I've been there myself. But my researching or discussing the issue doesn't amount to treating it like a "Jerry Springer talk show". Just because you couldn't care less, or are happy with easy, dismissive explanations, shouldn't doom the rest of us to your non-thinking reasoning.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's "Jerry Springer" because it is all speclution. J.S. show a brother and a sister living in a trailer park and with no teeth after sleeping together and the sisiter is having in affiar with Dad. Now, does this mean that all people who live in trailer parks are incestous and have no teeth. Speclution, nothing backing it up, one individual case that does not clearly represent any demographic.

Everything I have heard here is just that. People are posting their examples of Thai prostittution and trying to pass it off sa "THE" reason a Thai women would enter the trade. It's all BS. Prostitution in Thailand is not common, why? The same for every other country, # of prostitutes to the # of women. And Brothers taking advantage, or golddiggers, or the "Happy Hookers" are isolated cases.

Now how could you even think that I might careless.

I posted it shouldn't happen didn't I.

Easy dismissive explaintions?

I was not commenting on prostitution but peoples so called facts on prostitution. That is what is being dismissed.

Non-thinking?

I am asking you to think. To not try to "sum" up ones reasoning for selling sex with clever little research, that's Jerry Springer. That's not paying attention to reason. That's chicken little saying the sky is falling, and I have research to back it up.

I'll tell you what Kat. Research only brings you academic understanding. Try knowing your subjects pain and happiness. Think about the subjects not as subjects but as people, or better yet, go live their life, maybe you won't be so dismissive here.

It's not just you, my early post and this one is dicrected toward those who "sum" up something like this so easily. But I think the way in which you handle this topic shows that these people are easily dimissed in your mind, you seem to be a person who has become TOO intellectual/analytical. You are dehumanizing your subjects.

[The Dude]

What a thread this is and what a forum. I get such amazement out of the mindset of so many farang living here. On one hand you get all of the dirt cheap farangs who boast of living on a peasant 4th world monthly expense here and how thais make a buck an hour. At the same time they express disgust that a Thai would engage in prostitution. Give me a break, will you? I'd be on that street corner now if those were my prospects

[Jeff1]

Just what is the “real Thailand”? As I understand it there’s no country that doesn’t have its share of prostitution and this is especially true of poorer countries. If you look back at the history of the rich/modern countries, you’ll see plenty of the same exploitation of women.[

Funny that you refer to the explotation of women. In some cases, yes this is true. But if you mean explotation of Thai women by Farang men, then I have to object. Very often the Farang man is being exploited by the Thai woman.

As for explotation of Thai women by Thai men, the yes, in many cases absolutely true.

True story

A friend of ours ( I will call her R) in our village has an elder brother (call him LB). R's husband had moved on to pastures new and she was working as best she could to do the best for her daughter....(edited out to shorten the post. vit42)

Thailand is infamous for its sex trade so I don’t necessarily blame all foreigners for having a certain perception of the country and its people. This I blame on the foreigners themselves who perpetuate the trade and the thai government for not cracking down on the trade. However, it is absolutely ignorant for a foreigner to take this perception and apply it to all thais and all of Thailand.

If there were no foreigners in Thailand the sex trade would not stop, it would continue as it has more or less since time began. Foreigners do not perpetuate the trade, but make it more lucrative and bring it to the attention of the rest of the world.

What would happen to the Thai economy if the sex trade with Farang was stopped? A lot of villages in Isaan appear to have next to no local economic structure and way of life could well be supported almost exclusively by cash flowing in via Pattaya.

I don't believe that the Thai economy as a whole would suffer much, but it would certainly have an impact on small local economies

To your first point, i feel for your friend and agree his gf was being exploited by her bro. But exploitation is exploitation, whoever, wherever. If an adult thai bg chooses to trade sex for cash with an adult foreigner, i have no problem. Each get what they want whether or not it's exploitive. The line i draw is with the child sex trade, it's a definition of exploitation that no one should argue with.

To your second point, justifying sending young innocent isaan girls into the sex trade just to support the local economy doesn't make sense. Law of supply and demand at work i think. If the demand from higher paying foreigners was not there, then the supply of underaged girls into the trade would be just a trickle.

What are the alternatives for poor isaan families? If you're really interested follow this link to a recent PBS tv program, here in the u.s.

http://www.pbs.org/opb/thenewheroes/meet/sompop.html

Belive me pal , its not just the Issan girls .

[chuchok]

Case in point - my mates bday all the lads went on the piss. Stopped in this whiskey bar - enclosed bar w/aircon with diff sorts of whiskeys. There were ladies working - chatted with young lady from BKK. Asked her what she did before she started work here - she said work for electronics firm in BKK. I wasn't gobsmacked  because I know all sorts of ladies with good jobs dabble in the prostitution trade. I stopped back there a week later and apparently she had quit and is back working in BKK at her old job at the electronics firm. The lesson to be learned is some ladies realize its not for them even if the wages are high. However that being said - if someone wants to work in this line of business who are we to judge?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When I was working in BKK, the quickest way home for me was to walk thru "The Pong" It was normally about 6PM every afternoon.I used to stop at the same bar and have a couple of beers...just to knock the edge of.

On each Friday, there was an absolute stunner working at this bar.her English was better than mine.She had a regular job in a large Thai manufacturing company as an accountant, but used to supplement her income by getting a "job" on a Friday night. she worked in the pong because no Thais from her "other life" would go there.

[ZZZ]

Most western countries would have the same sex worker situation as Thailand if the girls there could charge 20 to 30 times the daily minimum wage for having sex with a man.

[Tyree D.]

I'm 25, my TGF is 31. One tourist asked, "Are you sure she's not a hooker?" Um, I never paid for it. A mamasan at a bar saw I had a GF now and asked me, "How much you pay her?" Um, nothing. A barlady asked me, "What bar does she work at?"

See, the Thais are also assuming. I don't think anything about it. I get an ego boost since I am with a woman who is obviously not a prostitute. I have seen men twice my age jealous since all they can get is current and former BGs.

And if you didn't know, I am African American (I hate the term black). Thai people are always asking her about my size.

However, I was previously in a bar playboy butterfly phase so I'm not gonna become a hypocrite.

[Dragonman]

What a thread this is and what a forum. I get such amazement out of the mindset of so many farang living here. On one hand you get all of the dirt cheap farangs who boast of living on a peasant 4th world monthly expense here and how thais make a buck an hour. At the same time they express disgust that a Thai would engage in prostitution. Give me a break, will you? I'd be on that street corner now if those were my prospects

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dude.Got to agree on this one and it doesn't happen often

Making a buck whilst trying to find a husband is what it's all about. It's not my opinion, it's the opinion of the vast majority of my wife and I's bar girl friends. Anyone on here who says they would rather work in a field for 10 hours a day, than sit in a bar have not lived in them there shoes. Very simplistic to say get an education, good job, etc. Where in most cases would the money come from to send the girl to Uni? Farangs want to cut down on prostitutes? Lets start by everyone on here who employs a thai increasing their monthly wage so you do your little bit to encourage the girls out of the trade. Yeah, there goes a flying pig

[Gary A]

Another twist. A few years ago I met a girl in a bar. She didn't work at that bar. She was visiting friends there. She had what was considered a VERY good job working for Seagate hard drive company. Eventually it became a romantic relationship that ended up being a paid relationship. She quit her factory job and went to work in the bars. Now I know for a fact that she had worked at that factory quite a number of years because her separation payment was 103,000 baht. I hated to see her become a prostitute but her reason was why should she work for 9,000 baht a month when she could have fun and make 50,000 baht a month. And YES, she was stunning to look at. She also saved her money because she was at that time 30 years old and she told me her working years were quite limited. I got to calling her Miss Diamond because she became as hard as a diamond. The last I saw her she was being kept by a wealthy farang.

[loong]

What a thread this is and what a forum. I get such amazement out of the mindset of so many farang living here. On one hand you get all of the dirt cheap farangs who boast of living on a peasant 4th world monthly expense here and how thais make a buck an hour. At the same time they express disgust that a Thai would engage in prostitution. Give me a break, will you? I'd be on that street corner now if those were my prospects

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

From what I have read, I don't agree that farang express disgust that a Thai would engage in prostitution. After all, most farang are with (ex?) prostitutes. There is some disgust re the reasons for girls entering prostitution however.

I'm 25, my TGF is 31.  One tourist asked, "Are you sure she's not a hooker?"  Um, I never paid for it.  A mamasan at a bar saw I had a GF now and asked me, "How much you pay her?"  Um, nothing.  A barlady asked me, "What bar does she work at?" 

See, the Thais are also assuming.  I don't think anything about it.  I get an ego boost since I am with a woman who is obviously not a prostitute.  I have seen men twice my age jealous since all they can get is current and former BGs.

And if you didn't know, I am African American (I hate the term black).  Thai people are always asking her about my size.

However, I was previously in a bar playboy butterfly phase so I'm not gonna become a hypocrite.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Errrrrrr.... from your posting, it appears that everybody DOES assume that you gf is a prostitute

Why do you think that you are better than other farang who have a bargirl or ex bargirl girlfriend?

[frequentatore]

After all, most farang are with (ex?) prostitutes.

You're full of sh1t !

[loong]

After all, most farang are with (ex?) prostitutes.

You're full of sh1t !

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok. Tell me how you think most Farang met their Thai gf

[frequentatore]

After all, most farang are with (ex?) prostitutes.

You're full of sh1t !

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok. Tell me how you think most Farang met their Thai gf

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Stop insulting Thai women and most farangs who certainly didn't meet their wives and girlfriends in brothels.

[The Dude]

Dude, what you are saying makes no sense at all. You say your gf is obviously not a whore but everyone wants to know what bar she works at.

[loong]

Ok. Tell me how you think most Farang met their Thai gf

Frequentatore

Was the question too hard for you? You didn't answer

Edited July 21, 2005 by loong

[The_Other_Mac]

Ok. Tell me how you think most Farang met their Thai gf

Frequentatore

Was the question too hard for you? You didn't answer

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hands up who's had a western girlfriend or wife at any stage in their life.

Now hands up who met her working as a prostitute.

[Jack Jones]

Another twist. A few years ago I met a girl in a bar. She didn't work at that bar. She was visiting friends there. She had what was considered a VERY good job working for Seagate hard drive company. Eventually it became a romantic relationship that ended up being a paid relationship. She quit her factory job and went to work in the bars. Now I know for a fact that she had worked at that factory quite a number of years because her separation payment was 103,000 baht. I hated to see her become a prostitute but her reason was why should she work for 9,000 baht a month when she could have fun and make 50,000 baht a month. And YES, she was stunning to look at. She also saved her money because she was at that time 30 years old and she told me her working years were quite limited. I got to calling her Miss Diamond because she became as hard as a diamond. The last I saw her she was being kept by a wealthy farang.

....I wouldn't call sleeping with old, ugly farangs a fun life style. Granted, these girls make more money than they could in other professions but thats what they're in it for, to make money. I would imagine selling your body makes you feel degraded, the flip side being that they're earning more. There has to be some pay off for that life-style

[loong]

....I wouldn't call sleeping with old, ugly farangs a fun life style. Granted, these girls make more money than they could in other professions but thats what they're in it for, to make money. I would imagine selling your body makes you feel degraded, the flip side being that they're earning more. There has to be some pay off for that life-style

The Thai girls who work the bar don't appear to feel degraded, they just seem to look at it as a job.

Maybe that is why so many are able to slip into the proffession seemingly so easily.

I'm not trying to claim that they enjoy their proffession though.

[bakachan]

ok ok.. im convinced not all gorgeous thai girls are working girls

[loong]

Bakachan

Maybe still a working girl, just more truthfull

This is a joke, I'm not suggesting that the girl is a working girl because og her origins

[coldcrush]

It is apparent that a many on here seem to view Thailand little more than a glorified cheap knocking shop & in fact have little regard for the real Thailand or people.

By exploiting an economic advantage they seem to revel in exploiting young girls/boys misfortune, where as at home they cant hold down a relationship; let alone get a partner ( i use that word very loosely).

Let me Explain something about the attitude of many back here in the UK

There was a Thai girl who worked at my friends restaurant to earn some extra pocket money whilst she finished her masters degree. When she finished and told the customers that she was going home to Thailand the majority asked the same question.

"Do you have to go and work in a bar now?"

Every time Thailand is shown on the  television there are always images of the  Pat Pong or Pattaya bar scene.

I was even asked on my wedding day here if i found my wife in a bar!!!

It p**ses me off that so many have such little regard for Thailand and its customs and in fact could never stay there if it was not for some young thing playing with their manhood because of  their economic superiority.

Get real people most of you are being taken for a ride: no money no honey!!!

how many of you have partners the same age as you or older?

END OF RANT

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So which bar did she go work? JOKING!!! Who really gives a stuff what people think, Who cares if someone did marry a bar girl, some people are very happy and live a full happy life! Not my choice that is theirs to choose and goodluck to em...

As for your comment on people on here, many are expressing there view on Thai culture in a positive and constructive manner. With any country that has a sex tourism industry it is natural for people to prejudge, whether it be wrong or right, who gives a ######..

Jai yen khap...

Edited July 21, 2005 by lopburiguy

[loong]

After all, most farang are with (ex?) prostitutes.

You're full of sh1t !

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Interesting, after this post - was followed by frequentore's next post

Stop insulting Thai women and most farangs who certainly didn't meet their wives and girlfriends in brothels. 

So after telling me I'm full of sh*t, frquentore then orders me to stop insulting.

"You're full of sh1t !" is this an insult or not?

Anyway, frequentore, I asked you how you think most farang meet their girlfriends.

You were online and were aware of my question, so why no answer?

You were referring to my comments in my posting

From what I have read, I don't agree that farang express disgust that a Thai would engage in prostitution. After all, most farang are with (ex?) prostitutes. There is some disgust re the reasons for girls entering prostitution however

Please tell us why you think this posting is insulting.

Are you claiming that my observations that 'most farang do not look down on Thai prostitutes' is insulting. If so that means that you believe we should all look down on them!

I can't see why you would think it is disrespectfull to Thai women.

You state that most farang certainly did not meet their w/gf in brothels.

I didnt mention brothels in my post.

But girls who work in bars, as well as cleaners or do any other job, who charge money for sex are prostitutes. From what I have seen, the wives and gf of most farang in Thailand are or have been prostitutes.

You obviously have a different opinion to me. Obviously you have a nice wife or gf who has never sold her body. If so then good for you. Many farang have.

However, if you are basing your statement on what farang have told you, then I'm afraid that you may have been lied to. Many farang do not like to admit that they are with an (ex) bargirl.

Many farang have a relationship with a girl that they met in a bar, but only as a cashier.

Anyway, the idea of a forum is that people can share opinions, glean information or just pass some time with like-minded people.

There is no place on a forum for statements like

You're full of sh1t !

If this is going to be the substance of your contributions, kindly go elsewhere