Why Stereotypes And Generalizations Are Important.

[StreetCowboy]

Trying to haul the discussion back on-topic:

Do you think that most stereotypes are negative? Or dominated by characteristics that we dislike in others?

So when an individual of that group displays those characteristics, we dislike them, and hence dislike the stereotype, and thus develop a prejudice against that group. So in that way, the stereotype plays an important role in the development of the prejudice.

For example, in the UK some people are prejudiced against people of Pakistani origin. According to the stereotype, the Pakistanis establish corner shops that open all hours, drawing trade away from grocers' shops run by indigineous peoples, resulting in the indigineous peoples being put out of business.

This stereotype did not generate a prejudice in me, because there were no pakistani corner shops (or, to the best of my knowledge, Pakistanis) in the little town that I grew up in, and it was the chain supermarkets that put the family grocer out of business - that, and old age, and either a lack of an heir or a desire on his part to do something other than grocing.

When I moved to the city, I was grateful for the pakistani shops, since I could buy necessities at any time (within reason). And I never saw a grocers' run by indigenous peoples. But I can see that for others, who had seen the stereotypical sequence of events (or who had not thought hard enough about their own experience to realise that they had NOT seen it) - then the stereotype helps engender a dislike of a group, based on the combination of a stereotype, and their own experience that conforms.

SC

[mark45y]

You asked for examples of military might changing political will and I gave you two examples in recent memory, Germany and Japan both of which were involved in a brutal war which killed millions of their citizens. After the war the will of the allies was imposed on both countries.

I gave an example of ending the Vietnam war before American involvement and you responded with stories about American brutality contributing to communism.

The same would have been true in Vietnam as was true in Japan and Germany. When the war is over you make peace.

I know you can’t understand this because you are not old enough to have seen the occupation of Germany and Japan.

The world is different now. It was not the same five years after the end of WW II in Vietnam. Millions of people had starved in Hanoi because Nationalist Chinese troops had occupied the city with the tacit approval of the French and British forces who were on the scene. Vietnam wasn’t angry with America yet.

Sorry I can’t deal with the Middle East as it is not my area of expertise as well as I have no interest in it.

I guess to some extent I am stereotyping "Street Cowboy" because all he has to rely on is history books and the internet to try and interpret the history of SEA in the modern era.

I had similar arguments when I went back to college on the GI bill after the war. Professors who had never been to Vietnam were pontificating about Vietnam history and the Vietnam personality. I almost got kicked out of school a couple of times for telling the truth in class. It was not the company line at the time.

[StreetCowboy]

... Interesting but off-topic discussion deleted

Straying back on topic, do you have a stereotype of the Vietnamese people that you could share with us?

Or perhaps some of the members currently living there could contribute?

Its probably easier to generate stereotypes from observation of strangers than friends, since the friends you know as unique individuals.

Do you think that to qualify as a stereotype, it needs to be held or shared by many people?

I guess probably not, and we could all have slightly different stereotypes for different groups.

SC

[mark45y]

... Interesting but off-topic discussion deleted

Straying back on topic, do you have a stereotype of the Vietnamese people that you could share with us?

Or perhaps some of the members currently living there could contribute?

Its probably easier to generate stereotypes from observation of strangers than friends, since the friends you know as unique individuals.

Do you think that to qualify as a stereotype, it needs to be held or shared by many people?

I guess probably not, and we could all have slightly different stereotypes for different groups.

SC

No, I know too many lived there too long. Talk about the government and that is a different story.

[thepanicandthevomit]

Normally I agree with you Ian but you forgot about Stormin Norman.

General Herbert Norman Schwarzkopf, Jr was stationed in Vietnam for two tours. He learned something.

He won operation Desert Storm in 100 hours.

The same thing could have happened in Vietnam if there was a will to do it.

Of course then I would have missed meeting a lot of Vietnamese women.

Armies can win battles, that's it. Hearts and minds of the people are best left to the people who own the hearts and minds.

I didn't forget about General Norman Schwarzkopf, Mark. He won a quick battle against an inferior force. The USA should have stopped right there. As much as I hated Saddam Hussein, he had been put in place by the US oil barons to keep Iran from expanding. The whole middle east conflict was and still is about control of the oil.

The USA COULD have won the Vietnam war had they been willing to completely annihilate the whole country and all surrounding countries as Hitler, Stalin and Mao tse Tung were prepared to do in their wars. But that was more than even the US public would tolerate.

In the 1950's Eisenhower wanted to nuke North Vietnam. At that time he could have had the support of the American people. Given the amount of people that died during the war that would have been the lesser of two evils.

Personally I don't think the US had any business in Asia except to occupy the two main belligerents of WW II, in the Pacific, Japan and Thailand. The Brits occupied Thailand but had to leave after only a year because of problems in India. If America had occupied Thailand we would still be here and the country would be running with the efficiency of Japan. You know you can drink tap water in Japan.

Hilarious, even for you. Only one country can really nation-build, and that's England. The US has a demonstrable track record of mainly cocking it up.

[thepanicandthevomit]

The freedom to generalise is the only constant we have. It keeps us safe from the zealots or thieves. We must resist insidious, sinister attempts to impose ideology onto us by others. The thugs that administer the beatings do so to maintain their own importance, their own profit. Those that cite "aggression", or "civility" or "lack of manners or respect" or no end of other bland catch-alls do so because it suits them. Prison camp guards have undergone a makeover and have mutated into The Big Nurses. Don't let them bully you into submission. Don't let them divide and rule.

To stereotype is to be free.

Actually not,Phychologists correct name for stereotyping is a: "Schema"

Which describes a fixed idea or view of something by appearance and/or previous experience,and not necessarily relevant or true.

Some examples are:

1.A man and his dog are walking down the street,he has a very short haircut (skinhead),wears a denim jacket and jeans,has tattoos on his knuckles and neck, and is thick set,the dog is a Pitbull Terrier or a Rottwieler.

Is he and the dog potential trouble? or could he be just a successful company Director on a day off? taking his wouldn't hurt a fly,dog for a walk?

2.A Female Topless Sunbather is in view to everyone,does it necessarily mean she's easy? of course not.

3.Males are more aggressive than Females is a common belief,and in itself a stereotype,research and studies do not support this stereotype,its fairly even in reality.

4.French Cooking and Chefs are the best in the World? not necessarily so,but because their commonly stereotyped and talked about as such.

I could go on.

But Finally how many of us believe men are the stronger sex?

Having seen many men fall to pieces after a relationship ends,in IMO this is also yet another outdated stereotype.

Stereotyping is also a form of instinctive self protection inborn in all of us,but thats another story.

Bizarre examples...

not necessarily relevant or true

So, we're back to this old chestnut, eh? This is the last line of defence for the scoundrel - an easy and cheap way of crushing debate.

When I was a civil servant, we used to deploy a similar trick in order to bulldoze through whatever policy WE wanted. All you say when someone comes up with an unpalatable proposition or objection is "name me six examples". That is virtually impossible to do. It is perfectly possible to get whatever answer you're looking for by being deliberately obstructive or obtuse, and mealy-mouthed PC types use this device to get what THEY want, and hang the rest of us.

Enough already. Live and let stereotype.

[IanForbes]

Streetcowboy quote: Perhaps you could give some examples where military might has been able to achieve political change.

Mao Tse Tung used military might to ram communism down the throats of Chinese citizens. He killed 10 million of his own people and thousands in nearby Tibet doing so. But, he is now a folk hero in China. I guess everyone who objected was killed outright.

[thepanicandthevomit]

Streetcowboy quote: Perhaps you could give some examples where military might has been able to achieve political change.

Mao Tse Tung used military might to ram communism down the throats of Chinese citizens. He killed 10 million of his own people and thousands in nearby Tibet doing so. But, he is now a folk hero in China. I guess everyone who objected was killed outright.

Wasn't Stalin recently voted as the third greatest Russian? Frightening.

[IanForbes]

Streetcowboy quote: Perhaps you could give some examples where military might has been able to achieve political change.

Mao Tse Tung used military might to ram communism down the throats of Chinese citizens. He killed 10 million of his own people and thousands in nearby Tibet doing so. But, he is now a folk hero in China. I guess everyone who objected was killed outright.

Wasn't Stalin recently voted as the third greatest Russian? Frightening.

Yes, defence rests their case.

[MAJIC]

The freedom to generalise is the only constant we have. It keeps us safe from the zealots or thieves. We must resist insidious, sinister attempts to impose ideology onto us by others. The thugs that administer the beatings do so to maintain their own importance, their own profit. Those that cite "aggression", or "civility" or "lack of manners or respect" or no end of other bland catch-alls do so because it suits them. Prison camp guards have undergone a makeover and have mutated into The Big Nurses. Don't let them bully you into submission. Don't let them divide and rule.

To stereotype is to be free.

Actually not,Phychologists correct name for stereotyping is a: "Schema"

Which describes a fixed idea or view of something by appearance and/or previous experience,and not necessarily relevant or true.

Some examples are:

1.A man and his dog are walking down the street,he has a very short haircut (skinhead),wears a denim jacket and jeans,has tattoos on his knuckles and neck, and is thick set,the dog is a Pitbull Terrier or a Rottwieler.

Is he and the dog potential trouble? or could he be just a successful company Director on a day off? taking his wouldn't hurt a fly,dog for a walk?

2.A Female Topless Sunbather is in view to everyone,does it necessarily mean she's easy? of course not.

3.Males are more aggressive than Females is a common belief,and in itself a stereotype,research and studies do not support this stereotype,its fairly even in reality.

4.French Cooking and Chefs are the best in the World? not necessarily so,but because their commonly stereotyped and talked about as such.

I could go on.

But Finally how many of us believe men are the stronger sex?

Having seen many men fall to pieces after a relationship ends,in IMO this is also yet another outdated stereotype.

Stereotyping is also a form of instinctive self protection inborn in all of us,but thats another story.

Bizarre examples...

not necessarily relevant or true

So, we're back to this old chestnut, eh? This is the last line of defence for the scoundrel - an easy and cheap way of crushing debate.

When I was a civil servant, we used to deploy a similar trick in order to bulldoze through whatever policy WE wanted. All you say when someone comes up with an unpalatable proposition or objection is "name me six examples". That is virtually impossible to do. It is perfectly possible to get whatever answer you're looking for by being deliberately obstructive or obtuse, and mealy-mouthed PC types use this device to get what THEY want, and hang the rest of us.

Enough already. Live and let stereotype.

Stereotype if you choose, but that is not in any way open minded or free thinking.

Civil Servants are not known for their individuality or personal views, or is that another Stereotype?

Edited September 26, 2010 by MAJIC

[StreetCowboy]

8>< NESTED QUOTES DELETED ><8

Stereotype if you choose, but that is not in any way open minded or free thinking.

Civil Servants are not known for their individuality or personal views, or is that another Stereotype?

That is an example of professional excellence. Civil servants are employed to enact the bureaucracy of the state, and to enact the decisions of government. Their initiative should be limited to "How..." not "what.." or "why..."

SC

[StreetCowboy]

8>< SNIP NESTED QUOTES DELETED ><8

Hilarious, even for you. Only one country can really nation-build, and that's England. The US has a demonstrable track record of mainly cocking it up.

Another poster who ought to know better demonstrating his ignorance. The English have never built a nation in their lives. It was James VI that first built the nation that now includes England, and it was in 1707 that England ceased to exist as an independent nation.

The English nationalists can all Eff off back to the North Saxon plains whence their forefathers came, and leave Great Britain to the many-hued British that live there

SC

A little bit of stereotyping there: for all I know TPATV is a darkie.

Edited September 27, 2010 by StreetCowboy