Moobans

[oldmajor]

Can anybody reccommend a Mooban not too far out of BKK? I would be looking to purchase a 3 bed house. Is there an advantage to purchasing a new house? It seems that houses do not really appreciate in value over here. Is that the case? Do houses in a Mooban have a shelf life? Does their value drop over time?

Thank you.

[gotlost]

ม่พบคำจำกัดความของ Moobanในภาษาภาษาไทย

คำจำกัดความของ Mooban บนเว็บ ในภาษาภาษาอังกฤษ:

• Muban (หมู่บ้าน) is the lowest administrative subdivision of Thailand. Usually translated as village, they are the subdivision of tambon. As of 2008, there are 74944 administrative villages in Thailand. As of the 1990 census, the average village consisted of 144 households or 746 persons.
  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mooban

[trogers]

Buying an old house in a old moo baan (over 10 years old) may be better. You can see the actual social atmosphere of the neighborhood.

[rgs2001uk]

Before being able to recommend anywhere I would need more information.

The first would be your budget and how much land you are looking for?

The second is your definition of, "not too far out of BKK?"

Personally I believe you would get better value for money by buying a piece of land and constructing your own house, or,

buying an older property in an existing moo baan, knocking it down and putting a new house on the plot.

I know of houses that were purchased for 600,000 baht 20 odd years ago, these same houses are now selling for about 6 million baht,

off course its the land that has increased in value due to its location, some of these houses are in dire need of repair and upgrade.

I have seen first hand some of these upgrades, 300,000 or 400,000 baht spent on nothing more than a cover up job, yes the property has had a lick

of paint applied, but the underlying problems of rising damp havent been addressed.

I personally believe these houses have a shelf life, depending on your age you may well be better of renting.

If you are trying to flip property you may well be better off sticking to city centre condos.

I agree with Trogers, your best bet is probably buying into an existing moo baan, thay way you see exactly what you are getting, price of property is no indication

of the class of your neighbours.

Personally I wouldnt touch any of these so called perfect properties, over priced rabbit hutches, little land and crammed together.

Take a drive on the outer ring road heading towards Bang Na, in the area around Gemopolis to see for yourself the prices and facilities on offer.

I dont know the west side of the city so cant comment, however on the north side take a look at some of the properties out by Min Buri on the way to Chachoengsao,

or head out of town on the Bang Pa In rd and you will see a few moo baans dotted around with bill boards advertizing properties on both sides of the road.

if you take the Bang Pa In rd out of town, turn off at the turning to Nakorn Nayork, there are a few moo baans in Thanyaburi, about a 45 minute drive from Bkk.

On the east side your best bey may well be to start in the Bang na area.

Another thing to consider is what facilities do you need close at hand, schools, hospitals, banks, Tesco/Lotus etc etc?

Will you be driving if so make sure you have access to your moo baan, some of these properties are thrown up with no infastructure in place, have at look at the traffic backed up on some roads trying to get access to a new moo baan.

[trogers]

Once you have shortlisted the preferred location in an existing moo baan, check on the frequency of flooding. Most moo baans are built on previous rice fields and over the span of a decade or more, the filled earth which supports roads, driveways and gardens would have settled by 40-60cm.

New moo baans will also suffer this as they age. There is no escape as the outskirts surrounding Bangkok were mostly rice fields.

When you tear down the old house and built a new one, you may want to elevate the first floor at least 80-90cm higher than its existing ground level. Doing this will help to avoid flooding and ground moisture.

[oldmajor]

Thanks a lot Trogers / rgs. I appreciate sensible answers. My GF works around On Nut, so I was hoping to move somewhere on that side of BKK.

We have a car but would still like to be fairly close to a BTS. I have noticed that there are quite a few heading out towards Suwanabumi airport. If there is a reasonable exit from the Mooban to the expressway it wouldbn't be so bad.

I've noticed a lot of driveways etc that have subsided considerably. This must be the case throughout the whole of the BKK area.

If you purchase a house here, do you need any special permission to knock it down and rebuild?

[trogers]

Thanks a lot Trogers / rgs. I appreciate sensible answers. My GF works around On Nut, so I was hoping to move somewhere on that side of BKK.

We have a car but would still like to be fairly close to a BTS. I have noticed that there are quite a few heading out towards Suwanabumi airport. If there is a reasonable exit from the Mooban to the expressway it wouldbn't be so bad.

I've noticed a lot of driveways etc that have subsided considerably. This must be the case throughout the whole of the BKK area.

If you purchase a house here, do you need any special permission to knock it down and rebuild?

Onnut...going outwards will be towards Lat Krabang. Avoid the stretch between Sukhumvit and Srinakarin road, as most of the sois in this area will flood a foot or more during a heavy downpour. Best is to be at the stretch from Srinakarin towards Lat Krabang.

You will need to engage at least a civil engineer to submit to BMA the proper design, drawings and calculations for the new house. But an architect should be also engaged to assist you in correct space layout, usage and finishes. Height of roof and set back from property lines have to conform to regulations. Pile foundation for a 2-storey structure would probably be 22-24m deep in this area. If you want to save some money and also avoid large settlement between the driveway, car porch and the house, use an excavator to drive in 1.8m long concrete piles to support the driveway and car porch. This will leave differential settlement between your driveway and the public road, which can be bridged by sand fill and interlocking blocks.

[neverdie]

Buying an old house in a old moo baan (over 10 years old) may be better. You can see the actual social atmosphere of the neighborhood.

Not to mention the way in which the structures have aged and fallen over. Its all good stuff, isnt it?

[trogers]

Buying an old house in a old moo baan (over 10 years old) may be better. You can see the actual social atmosphere of the neighborhood.

Not to mention the way in which the structures have aged and fallen over. Its all good stuff, isnt it?

Old moo baans that are over 25 years were probably constructed without ready-mixed concrete, thus spalling concrete structures.

[neverdie]

Buying an old house in a old moo baan (over 10 years old) may be better. You can see the actual social atmosphere of the neighborhood.

Not to mention the way in which the structures have aged and fallen over. Its all good stuff, isnt it?

Old moo baans that are over 25 years were probably constructed without ready-mixed concrete, thus spalling concrete structures.

Sorry, I'm not trying to go off topic BUT this is one of my pet hates here. I've been around abit and seen a few moobaans in my day and nearly always the same things apply. When they are new and shiney everything looks good but only a short time needs to pass before the CRACKS start to appear. Ive seen this in moobaans that were selling million baht townhouses right up to 20-30 million baht mcmansions. The only difference with them was when the mcmansion starts falling down you have more surface area to repair.

I come from a place where strict building codes must be adherred to & whilst structures cost alot more they actually last MUCH MUCH longer too, quite often with minimal maintance, unlike a great majority of the areas around BKK where the ground level is constantly dropping, walls, driveways and structures moving in opposite directions, paint peeling off walls, neighbours building add ons which result in roof lines meeting at property boundaries and so forth, its a real circus.

My point being, virtually no matter where the OP goes near bkk, he needs to consider some of these points if he wants to keep the property in good shape as you have already pointed out, alot of these villages are built on mud flats and reclaimed rice/so other crop land.

I have friends that bought in an apparent good moo baan on the southern side of Bkk. They paid about 5.5 million for it. Homes in the moo baan range between 3 million and 40 million. The house is 7 years old and they have just spent 1.5 million baht, re-roofing, replacing parts of the ceiling, refitting out the bathrooms and kitchen and fixing driveway, fences, full repaint inside and out and so forth. They are presently trying to sell the property for 6 million, I reakon they have buckleys chance of offloading it.

If the OP can swing it, he'd be well advised to try and rent a home in any moobaan he is considering to buy a home in & once living in one for a while he will be able to see whats going on.

[rgs2001uk]

In the On Nut area you could try the following,

http://classifieds.thaivisa.com/real-estate/houses-for-sale/for-sale-delightful-detached-house-with-3-bedrooms-in-onnut-area-bangkok-68261.html

the one above is at the Srinakarin end of soi 77

http://classifieds.thaivisa.com/real-estate/houses-for-sale/a-nice-3-bedroom-house-for-sale-63287.html

this one I can offer no comment.

http://classifieds.thaivisa.com/real-estate/houses-for-sale/house-for-sale-included-transferred-payment-at-property-perfect-village-sukhum-65512.html

personally I think its over priced, reason being see the link below.

http://classifieds.thaivisa.com/real-estate/houses-for-sale/beautiful-3-bedroom-house-for-sale-in-on-nut-area-bangkok-58919.html

the above house if you were to have it built would cost no more than 3 million baht.

In the On Nut area you can try the following areas, sorry I can't remember the names of the moo baans, Trogers will know them (he knows these things).

On Nut soi 12 or 16 , the one with the Bangkok bank outside, there is an older 10 years+ moo baan, some of the houses had construction stopped because of the financial meltdown of 10 years ago, there was also a house that caught fire (Jewish lightning?) that was sold for a bargain price.

If you turn left coming from Suk rd into On Nut soi 17, travel down the soi a couple of clicks, round about soi 12 on the rh side there is another older established moo baan.

Right across the road there is a brand new, less than 2 years old moo baan, the area was originally suppossed to be for a school, buts thats another story.

Cant remeber the name of those two moo baans, if you have gone passed the petrol station beside the xerox factory you have gone to far.

If you turn left into soi 17 or soi Hollywood as its known there are always older properties for sale, soi 16 also has land for sale, but over priced in my opinion.

Now is the perfect time to view properties because its rainy season, you can see exactly what you are buying.

About 3 weeks ago Pattanakrn rd was flooded all the way down to Klong Tan intersection.

Prawet area is another area worthy of consideration, the traffic is however horrendous on Soi On Nut.

There is also another area worth investigating, I can't remeber the soi number, but its the soi you turn right onto to go to Udom Suk (help me out here Trogers). Think its down about soi 38.

[p_brownstone]

No one has mentioned the fact that a foreigner cannot own Land in Thailand.

Patrick

[AyG]

I would recommend you have a look at the websites for the two largest house builders in Thailand: www.sansiri.com and www.lh.co.th

They both have a number of moobaans under construction which might meet your requirements.

With less well-known builders there's a much greater chance that you won't get what you paid for, or they will just run off with the money. Not worth the risk, in my opinion.

L&H moobaans tend to be larger than the Sansiri ones, and can be a little impersonal. Also L&H tends to arrange the houses in long, straight lines, whilst Sansiri uses more curved streets, which gives a more intimate impression. The build quality of both companies is equally good.

[oldmajor]

Thank you to all of you. This has been quite an education. This post has given me a lot to think about and a lot to go and see. I think that I must agree with Neverdie. Renting for a while would give me a much better feel for what is going on. It still frightens me that when outlaying such a lot of money for a property, you can't rely on it as an investment.

[Dannymc]

I went through the same thing for the last few years. Wife of 20 years does deserve a house before I kick off (yes, married to Thai 20 years w/o buying her a house!). We live in On Nut off Soi 17. Called "Millionaire's Park" - yeah, I know, stupid name. It's the newer one on left side of 17 about 1 km inside the soi.

We looked at Sansiri and L&H various places. Didn't like distance from town...or developments too big. However, both of those places do have better than average facilities management from everything I've seen. They tend to look better after 5 years than most other places...

Our place looked all good, and we inspected while our house was being built. Finish quality is better than average, but upon closer inspection, they use quite cheap materials and just cover all with nice paint job (pretty typical Thai tactic to everything...), even on our 8.5 million baht house (measily 73 square wah) and 220m2 living area. Floorplan is great, tall ceilings, windows, great use of space, wider than average streets, small number of houses - about 70. Ours is cheapest. They go up to 13+ Million for big ones.

Door locks very cheap, doors cheap, lighting and bath fixtures cheapest they can find (I replaced during building). Tiles outside cheap (also chose and bought our own to upgrade). Wood outside doors 'green' and don't close during rainy season...wooden stairs look nice - big solid wood slabs for steps...but mill marks in all the facia wood, and the nice thick steps are all cracking after 4 months. Their answer to fix the stairs was to fill in the cracks with putty and restain them...

In retrospect, I should have insisted to wife that I will build a nice house on (our) her land in Korat near the Mall for 2.5 Million and we rent in BKK. Guess I felt guilty for not buying a house last 20 years, but we've been living all over Asia so didn't know where we'd settle...

Knowing that the value of the house will likely not appreciate over time, and the price we paid for substandard quality....well, I do have buyers' remorse.

Tread carefully and good luck.

[bkk_mike]

I must be lucky or something, but we bought our house 10 years ago and we've had relatively little go wrong.

No subsidence.

Some termite damage (wooden deck outside - replaced with a textured concrete one), and the occasional wooden window frame getting replaced with an aluminium one when we discover damage.

Had to get a roofer in once - as we got a damp patch on the ceiling. (I think it was just a refit of the lining inside the roof - and a repaint of the ceiling.)

And we just did our first complete exterior repaint earlier this year.

Obviously, I don't think any of the bathrooms is on their original water heater, and we have added newer aircon units (partly because the ones the house came with were noisy and not the most efficient).

One thing to remember with the moobans. Your internet access will generally be slower than you can get from condos in the centre of town. - and the further you get from the telephone exchange/concentrator, the slower it will be.

Edited October 3, 2010 by bkk_mike

[craigt3365]

I went through the same thing for the last few years. Wife of 20 years does deserve a house before I kick off (yes, married to Thai 20 years w/o buying her a house!). We live in On Nut off Soi 17. Called "Millionaire's Park" - yeah, I know, stupid name. It's the newer one on left side of 17 about 1 km inside the soi.

We looked at Sansiri and L&H various places. Didn't like distance from town...or developments too big. However, both of those places do have better than average facilities management from everything I've seen. They tend to look better after 5 years than most other places...

Our place looked all good, and we inspected while our house was being built. Finish quality is better than average, but upon closer inspection, they use quite cheap materials and just cover all with nice paint job (pretty typical Thai tactic to everything...), even on our 8.5 million baht house (measily 73 square wah) and 220m2 living area. Floorplan is great, tall ceilings, windows, great use of space, wider than average streets, small number of houses - about 70. Ours is cheapest. They go up to 13+ Million for big ones.

Door locks very cheap, doors cheap, lighting and bath fixtures cheapest they can find (I replaced during building). Tiles outside cheap (also chose and bought our own to upgrade). Wood outside doors 'green' and don't close during rainy season...wooden stairs look nice - big solid wood slabs for steps...but mill marks in all the facia wood, and the nice thick steps are all cracking after 4 months. Their answer to fix the stairs was to fill in the cracks with putty and restain them...

In retrospect, I should have insisted to wife that I will build a nice house on (our) her land in Korat near the Mall for 2.5 Million and we rent in BKK. Guess I felt guilty for not buying a house last 20 years, but we've been living all over Asia so didn't know where we'd settle...

Knowing that the value of the house will likely not appreciate over time, and the price we paid for substandard quality....well, I do have buyers' remorse.

Tread carefully and good luck.

I hear ya on this. But also, working with the builder during the initial build to do quality fixtures is not that hard to do. It costs ya more, but what you get in the end is much better. Many in my village did this, not settling for the substandard stuff that comes with the house. Not much different from new builds in the US. And redoing some of these items is not that expensive. Which is what we did. New doors, windows, flooring, tile, etc. If you are in it for the long run, it is worth it.

We also debated on a mooban vs. building out in the country. So far, we are happy with the mooban. Lots of people to interact with, closer to the action of a larger city, better shopping. But even here in Ban Amphur, near Pattaya, we miss Bangkok! Just depends on what your desires are. We miss the great restaurants, live music, and fantastic shopping. Well, at least we have great air....and plenty of neighbors to have fun with.

[RAZZELL]

To give this rather old thread a bit of a bump...

What are the moo baans like around Bangna? Any recommendations?

RAZZ