Second Two Year Waiver Of Tl ? Any Updates?

[BruceMangosteen]

As almost has become expected, nothing has been done and my current VISA and WP expire at the end of October.

I had asked for, and not received, a decision by October 1st. One often likes to get a 30 day notice of termination and/or a need to leave the country.

Yes, I'm one of those who refuse to be jerked around, take courses and exams. Not for the reason clever folks can come up, but simply because I refuse to be insulted by same. I can just leave, have the means both financial and physical.

Can someone with recent experiences please advise a couple/all below?

-Can a "director" if so inclined, simply write a cover letter for a specific teacher requesting a second waiver of the requirements and generally have same issued, if we assume a government school of some stature?

-If the TCT writes back refusing, does this director lose face?

-If you, the teacher, change schools, moving on to another government or private school, does the two year waiver process start all over or does the TCT actually check said requests againist past waivers and perhaps then deny the request on that basis?(you have not progressed and paid money for culture courses and exams)

-If you, the teacher, simply hire an "agent" to get the VISA and WP, without the TCT stuff, have you, the teacher, committed any crime? If you answer this question, please assume the VISA and WP are completely legal and obtained from the proper offices, not forged etc..

Thanks in advance and have a nice October. Please keep any suggestions I just jump through the hoops to yourself. I thought of that already.

Edited September 30, 2010 by BruceMangosteen

[Scott]

I also decided a number of years ago that I wasn't going to jump through any hoops. I didn't even take the Thai Cultural Course--even though I had to go and make sure that the rest of the staff did! Later, I found out I had a TL that pre-dates all the changes and I don't need to do anything.

Now to try and answer your questions. I doubt anyone knows for sure, but the school should be able to make an application for a 2nd (and possibly a 3rd) waiver on your behalf. The enforcement of the regulation about having 'shown some progress' is not being evenly applied. I know many of the teachers where I work are on their 2nd waiver and they have not taken any courses or exams.

Unless your school and director have been given specific instructions that you/they should begin progressing toward compliance, the school should be able to write the letter on your behalf. Getting a 'no' is does seem to cause a loss of face for the school. I know more than one director who is reluctant to do anything that might prompt a 'no.'

The crux of the problem is that the TL is yours--not the schools, so my guess is that a 'no' at one school would result in that

'no' following you to the next school. Perhaps we have other posters with more first hand knowledge about this.

As far as circumventing the problem by getting a visa and WP through an agent is a possibility. Whether or not it is legal, I don't really know. I do know people that have done it for a number of years and they haven't encountered any problems.

Best of luck and keep us posted about your situation.

[aidenai]

-Can a "director" if so inclined, simply write a cover letter for a specific teacher requesting a second waiver of the requirements and generally have same issued, if we assume a government school of some stature?

Yes, the director can. A standard TCT-letter can be found here: http://www.ksp.or.th...n%20Request.pdf

-If the TCT writes back refusing, does this director lose face?

I don't see how the director could lose face.

-If you, the teacher, change schools, moving on to another government or private school, does the two year waiver process start all over or does the TCT actually check said requests againist past waivers and perhaps then deny the request on that basis?(you have not progressed and paid money for culture courses and exams)

A TCT teacher license exemption certificate or letter is tight to the school you're working for. Your school's name is stated on the document. If you change schools the request procedure starts again.

Last May, two colleagues of mine changed schools and at the TCT was determined that they had previous waivers. It seems that the TCT has a (working) database. Like you they hadn't done anything to show progress in meeting the requirements but with the help of the respective directors they both were given one-year teacher license exemption letters.

-If you, the teacher, simply hire an "agent" to get the VISA and WP, without the TCT stuff, have you, the teacher, committed any crime? If you answer this question, please assume the VISA and WP are completely legal and obtained from the proper offices, not forged etc..

No crimes at all. That is, when you have the proper visa or extension of the permission of stay and a work permit for the work and at the location you're actually working.

[Mario2008]

Currently it seems only immigration is asking for a TL or waiver, and maybe the odd labour office.

With a non-B every 3 months and a valid WP you are working legally. You just can't get extensions of stay, so you have to leave the country every 90 days.

[mizzi39]

I received my second two year waiver back at the end of April before the new term started. My director sent a letter and the waiver was sent within 2 weeks. Both immigration and the labor office requested a copy.

[otherstuff1957]

I received a second two-year waiver a couple of months ago. The Personnel person at my school (who speaks English very well) told me that the TCT wanted to see 'some effort towards becoming legal' before they would issue a second waiver letter. I was able to satisfy this requirement by taking the 'Thai Culture Course'.

Of course, TIT and my experience my not turn out to be the same as yours!

[BruceMangosteen]

I received a second two-year waiver a couple of months ago. The Personnel person at my school (who speaks English very well) told me that the TCT wanted to see 'some effort towards becoming legal' before they would issue a second waiver letter. I was able to satisfy this requirement by taking the 'Thai Culture Course'.

Of course, TIT and my experience my not turn out to be the same as yours!

Thank you for your contribution. I think the standard answer, if someone called the TCT, would be what was relayed to you. I'm more curious if anyone has actually had the Director write and as mentioned, had the request denied due to no "effort" on the subject teacher's part. There are of course variables such as writing for one teacher or the entire staff etc.. I'm specifically interested in a letter for only one teacher the school wants to retain.

FYI and everyone, I've read some place, maybe even here, that you can sign up for the exams, pay the money, and show that as an effort. Then just skip the exams. Others say the culture course is the one and only first step. Not to bore you, but college degrees(the applicants educational background) and native English speaking abilities don't seem applicable to the TCT decisions and mandates regarding the license itself or the waivers being issued.

Edited October 2, 2010 by BruceMangosteen

[BruceMangosteen]

Unless your school and director have been given specific instructions that you/they should begin progressing toward compliance, the school should be able to write the letter on your behalf. Getting a 'no' is does seem to cause a loss of face for the school. I know more than one director who is reluctant to do anything that might prompt a 'no.'

Thanks for your detailed reply. On the above point....

I think that has been said to all Government schools? At least those with MEP or EP programs?? The waiver remains automatic to new hires. Why I'll never know. But new people, qualified with some sort of degree, and native speakers from the usual list, aren't as "easy" to find for schools outside of Bangkok as many in the Government seem to think.

That leaves the system in a bind. Low wages don't seem to attract the people they dream of having.

[Scott]

It would be rather hard to hire new teachers and expect them to be eligible for a bona fide TL, at least with the prevailing situation in Thailand.

The compliance issue may hit a critical mass at some point in the not too distant future, given that there are probably very few teachers who can/will comply. Teacher wages in Thailand are low and the cost of the courses is relatively high.

A significant number of teachers teach by default rather than by plan. A number of those would have a difficult time with the courses and/or tests, both financially as well as educationally. For example, I know a number of older teachers who would never make up the difference in cost with the wages they would earn in their working life-span.

For younger teachers the idea of taking the courses is a real option and will provide them with the opportunity to be completely legal and probably be able to have long-term employment opportunities.

A lot of schools, however, aren't very supportive of giving people the time they need to upgrade their status.

[aidenai]

Edited October 2, 2010 by aidenai