Thai Red Shirts Stage Mass Rally

[rubl]

One of these days the DSI will come with a full report on the 91 deaths. Seh Daeng's one of them. Somehow I think for most the cause of death will be 'shot', with only army personel and some bystanders killed by shrapnel from RPG/M79 grenade attacks.

Are you implying that the red shirts and their black shirt guards only had RPGs and hand grenades, and no guns? How naive!

Although some army personel may have been killed by gunshots (some friendly fire as well), the army colonel with staff had some grenades lopped on them, the lady at BTS Saladaeng died from a grenade attack.

I'm implying that most killed are shot (by either reds, blacks, army) and some died from grenade attacks.

Somehow it seems no red-shirts died from RPG/M79 grenades. How curious !

[chantorn]

<snip>

"To most members here they view the Red shirts as illiterate morons full of deception, lies and violence."

Not at all. Sure, the red shirts have some illiterates. Sure, the red shirts have some morons (as do the yellow shirts).

But it's the red shirt leaders that are full of deception, lies and violence.

Correct.

Just another over-rated weekend.

[ableguy]

here's one high-functioning Red who didn't attend the mass rally:

Police Arrest Suspect Who Left Black Bag at Privy Council President's Residence

Samsen police have arrested a man, suspected of leaving a black trash bag filled with feces and curses against the Privy Council president, at his residence yesterday.

They used CCTV footage to identify the man, who confesses to being a red-shirt supporter and to having done this 5 times already.

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__3962064

He confessed, was fined THB 5000, paid and released. Probably also told not to do this again (,you naughty boy). Almost like a children's prank.

He also runs a chain of restaurants. I hope he washed his hands afterwards each time.

Given the repetitious nature of the Red &lt;deleted&gt; stirrer and the ramifications of the criteria, he's one kinky Red:

Coprophilia is the paraphilia involving sexual pleasure from feces. In the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of the American Psychiatric Association (DSM-IV-TR), it is classified under 302.9 Paraphilia Not Otherwise Specified and has no diagnostic criteria other than a general statement about paraphilias that says "the diagnosis is made if the behavior, sexual urges, or fantasies cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning".

Furthermore, the DSM-IV-TR notes, "Fantasies, behaviors, or objects are paraphilic only when they lead to clinically significant distress or impairment, eg. are obligatory, result in sexual dysfunction, require participation of nonconsenting individuals, lead to legal complications."

Bloody hel_l who needs this ?

[ableguy]

I subscribe to this forum by email, I get daily updates. I have commented 11 times in about 5 years, mostly I cannot be bothered and for the following two reasons. Firstly I cannot comment directly but have to log in, secondly the members are so bigoted and biased in their comments on anything to do with the Red shirts. To most members here they view the Red shirts as illiterate morons full of deception, lies and violence.

Now I know many intelligent sincere Red shirts, I also participated in the early PAD rallies in Bangkok where I met many illiterate PAD morons, so I wonder why so many forum members have such rigidly biased views regarding the Reds and Yellows? Is it a case of "birds of a feather"?

If I did not live in Thailand and my sources of information were just the Nation and the BP plus this forum I would have a very distorted view of events, is this the intention of the Thaivisa management or the moderators, or a conspiracy by the members?

I have realised that the more you treat people with contempt the more they tend to behave in a contemptible manner, it becomes a self fullfilling prophecy. Further the longer this mental attitude persists the longer Thailand will stay a divided nation.

I was present during the Aldermarston marches in England, yes I am old, they were intended to be peaceful protests yet they had their share of malcontents, trouble makers and violent incidents against the authorities. I am sure if guns were as readily available in England then as they are presently in Thailand there would have been deaths.

Go and have your ovaltine.

[Markaew]

I am still at a loss to understand why Thai vent their political views in a farang forum such as this. We cannot vote. We cannot influence politics. We only pump money into your economy while you complain about our presence. Is it that you have this overwhelming desire to control as other Thais do? Control what? Take you dribble elsewhere.

[philw]

I subscribe to this forum by email, I get daily updates. I have commented 11 times in about 5 years, mostly I cannot be bothered and for the following two reasons. Firstly I cannot comment directly but have to log in, secondly the members are so bigoted and biased in their comments on anything to do with the Red shirts. To most members here they view the Red shirts as illiterate morons full of deception, lies and violence.

Now I know many intelligent sincere Red shirts, I also participated in the early PAD rallies in Bangkok where I met many illiterate PAD morons, so I wonder why so many forum members have such rigidly biased views regarding the Reds and Yellows? Is it a case of "birds of a feather"?

If I did not live in Thailand and my sources of information were just the Nation and the BP plus this forum I would have a very distorted view of events, is this the intention of the Thaivisa management or the moderators, or a conspiracy by the members?

I have realised that the more you treat people with contempt the more they tend to behave in a contemptible manner, it becomes a self fullfilling prophecy. Further the longer this mental attitude persists the longer Thailand will stay a divided nation.

I was present during the Aldermarston marches in England, yes I am old, they were intended to be peaceful protests yet they had their share of malcontents, trouble makers and violent incidents against the authorities. I am sure if guns were as readily available in England then as they are presently in Thailand there would have been deaths.

Go and have your ovaltine.

He's right.

[Buchholz]

I subscribe to this forum by email, I get daily updates. I have commented 11 times in about 5 years, mostly I cannot be bothered and for the following two reasons. Firstly I cannot comment directly but have to log in, secondly the members are so bigoted and biased in their comments on anything to do with the Red shirts. To most members here they view the Red shirts as illiterate morons full of deception, lies and violence.

Now I know many intelligent sincere Red shirts, I also participated in the early PAD rallies in Bangkok where I met many illiterate PAD morons, so I wonder why so many forum members have such rigidly biased views regarding the Reds and Yellows? Is it a case of "birds of a feather"?

If I did not live in Thailand and my sources of information were just the Nation and the BP plus this forum I would have a very distorted view of events, is this the intention of the Thaivisa management or the moderators, or a conspiracy by the members?

I have realised that the more you treat people with contempt the more they tend to behave in a contemptible manner, it becomes a self fullfilling prophecy. Further the longer this mental attitude persists the longer Thailand will stay a divided nation.

I was present during the Aldermarston marches in England, yes I am old, they were intended to be peaceful protests yet they had their share of malcontents, trouble makers and violent incidents against the authorities. I am sure if guns were as readily available in England then as they are presently in Thailand there would have been deaths.

Go and have your ovaltine.

He's right.

Right about what? His being upset about other posters calling Red Shirts illiterate morons or him calling Yellow Shirts illiterate morons?

[yoshiwara]

I guess if the government won't attack them they will do it themselves.

... including to each other, which they may have already done as there is a possibility that UDD militants ("black shirts") shot their own supporters during the riots.

There is also a possibility that Khattiya Sawasdipol was shot by someone aligned with Thaksin, as Khattiya was revealing a lot of information to the media at the time. Maybe they didn't want him to be taken in by authorities for interrogation.

Agree, as the shooter was MOST LIKELY a sniper in army uniform, behind the army line.That is the reason why the govt cannot release the report of the bullet trajectory.

Most likely as assessed by forum red cheerleaders.

Edited October 19, 2010 by yoshiwara

[randyoon]

I have read many post's, both here and other forums, concerning the "Red Shirts" and the "Yellow Shirts". I prefer to refer to them as the rich/elite and the poor/working class. It seems that there are many who condem the poor/working class for demonstrating for democracy,. I do believe all they wanted was an election and not an appointed government.

The rich/elite wanted someone put in power the fancied their needs and by doing so, closed down the complete country by blockcading the main airport. The poor/working class only closed down Bangkok.

Yes, it went much farther than what everyone anticipated and that placed a black eye on the poor/working class people.

I'm not condeming either side. I do know that greed and coruption runs rampant withing the Thai government. It has been like this for so long and I don't see that part ever changing. That can be classified as a Thai custom.

In a nutshell, all I'm saying is that maybe we should look at the situation from both sides. Have the election and whomever wins, respect them ae their leader.

BTW My spelling may not be correct as I cannot download the spelling editor, but I believe you get my point.

Thank you for allowing me to post.

[rubl]

I have read many post's, both here and other forums, concerning the "Red Shirts" and the "Yellow Shirts". I prefer to refer to them as the rich/elite and the poor/working class. It seems that there are many who condem the poor/working class for demonstrating for democracy,. I do believe all they wanted was an election and not an appointed government.

The rich/elite wanted someone put in power the fancied their needs and by doing so, closed down the complete country by blockcading the main airport. The poor/working class only closed down Bangkok.

Yes, it went much farther than what everyone anticipated and that placed a black eye on the poor/working class people.

I'm not condeming either side. I do know that greed and coruption runs rampant withing the Thai government. It has been like this for so long and I don't see that part ever changing. That can be classified as a Thai custom.

In a nutshell, all I'm saying is that maybe we should look at the situation from both sides. Have the election and whomever wins, respect them ae their leader.

BTW My spelling may not be correct as I cannot download the spelling editor, but I believe you get my point.

Thank you for allowing me to post.

The problem is a wee bit more complicated. With the red-shirts you have the poor and/or working class, but also the rich and/or elite. Same for yellow-shirts. I guess that's one of the problems. Some of the red elite just want to continue their paternalistic, privileged position. Some of the yellow elite just want to continue their paternalistic, privileged position. The poor of any color want the equal chance to earn money and yes most don't object to hard work to get it. They just want a fair chance. The rich and 'elite' want to keep what they got and power and money. They need to be put in a position where they are willing to allow others a fair chance also. Just distributing wealth won't help. To appreciate you need to work for it.

[whybother]

I have read many post's, both here and other forums, concerning the "Red Shirts" and the "Yellow Shirts". I prefer to refer to them as the rich/elite and the poor/working class. It seems that there are many who condem the poor/working class for demonstrating for democracy,. I do believe all they wanted was an election and not an appointed government.

The rich/elite wanted someone put in power the fancied their needs and by doing so, closed down the complete country by blockcading the main airport. The poor/working class only closed down Bangkok.

Yes, it went much farther than what everyone anticipated and that placed a black eye on the poor/working class people.

I'm not condeming either side. I do know that greed and coruption runs rampant withing the Thai government. It has been like this for so long and I don't see that part ever changing. That can be classified as a Thai custom.

In a nutshell, all I'm saying is that maybe we should look at the situation from both sides. Have the election and whomever wins, respect them ae their leader.

BTW My spelling may not be correct as I cannot download the spelling editor, but I believe you get my point.

Thank you for allowing me to post.

Appointed?? ( )

The PTP (ex-PPP) MPs had a chance to call an election as they were still in government after the PPP were disbanded. They instead chose to go on with a vote for a new PM, as they did when Somchai was elected PM.

It's just that this time they had lost the support of some of the smaller parties. So instead of a new Thaksin proxy being elected PM, Abhisit was elected, which brought the Democrats and other minor parties into government.

"Have the election" - governments don't call elections just because a group of thugs demand it.

[Pi Sek]

I have read many post's, both here and other forums, concerning the "Red Shirts" and the "Yellow Shirts". I prefer to refer to them as the rich/elite and the poor/working class. It seems that there are many who condem the poor/working class for demonstrating for democracy,. I do believe all they wanted was an election and not an appointed government.

The rich/elite wanted someone put in power the fancied their needs and by doing so, closed down the complete country by blockcading the main airport. The poor/working class only closed down Bangkok.

Yes, it went much farther than what everyone anticipated and that placed a black eye on the poor/working class people.

I'm not condeming either side. I do know that greed and coruption runs rampant withing the Thai government. It has been like this for so long and I don't see that part ever changing. That can be classified as a Thai custom.

In a nutshell, all I'm saying is that maybe we should look at the situation from both sides. Have the election and whomever wins, respect them ae their leader.

BTW My spelling may not be correct as I cannot download the spelling editor, but I believe you get my point.

Thank you for allowing me to post.

The problem is a wee bit more complicated. With the red-shirts you have the poor and/or working class, but also the rich and/or elite. Same for yellow-shirts. I guess that's one of the problems. Some of the red elite just want to continue their paternalistic, privileged position. Some of the yellow elite just want to continue their paternalistic, privileged position. The poor of any color want the equal chance to earn money and yes most don't object to hard work to get it. They just want a fair chance. The rich and 'elite' want to keep what they got and power and money. They need to be put in a position where they are willing to allow others a fair chance also. Just distributing wealth won't help. To appreciate you need to work for it.

Yes, unfortunately rubl is right.

- The Red Shirts are not pro-democracy. Thailand is already a democracy and Abhisit was elected democratically by the process of a constitutional democracy (the same way as pro-red former-PPP prime minister Somchai and UK prime minister David Cameron). It became clear after they did not accept a House dissolution in September that democracy was not one of their main objectives.

- The UDD claim they represent the injustice of inequality. They don’t want double standards to apply as has been the case for many; grievances represented by, for example, the Yellow Shirt leaders’ seeming impunity and Kasit’s appointment as foreign minister. A big problem with their argument is, with this protest, that they want the Law to be applicable to all, but they then insist on impunity; the protesters sleep in the street, the leaders sleep in one of Thaksin’s 5-star hotels; the rice-milling network whose elite are protected by a “loans for farmers” scheme under Thaksin (and heavily backed by the UDD), actually keeps most of the Red Shirt supporters poor; the protesters risking their lives in the line of fire were being paid 1,000 Baht per day, the leaders who were shepherding them were being paid 5 million Baht per day. The party championing their cause is led by a man whose children were acquitted of murder for dubious silences from key witnesses. The vast majority of protesters have been duped into fighting for 'justice' by a bunch of gangsters who lost a lot when Thaksin's mafia-friendly institution was overthrown. These are truly the 'elite exploiting the poor'.

- Abhisit's government is not pro-Yellow Shirt or vice versa – the Yellow Shirts are a whole other thing and they oppose Abhisit too – despite Kasit’s appointment as foreign minister after he attended the PAD rallies. The Yellow Shirts have their own party – the New Politics Party (NPP) – and want a slower transition to 'full' democracy as they say Thailand is not ready for full democracy; they want a compromise where the popular vote has only 30% of the final vote. It must be said that Thaksin’s exploitation of a weak constitution gives weight to this idea, but I think the vast majority of Thais would say that making the constitution stronger is a more suitable solution.

- Abhisit's Democrat government was not pro-coup in 2006 and never has been – they condemned it as ‘undemocratic’. They were heavily critical at times of the coup-installed caretaker government and have drawn plenty of criticism from top army figures, including a call to resign from the army’s Chief of Staff. The common idea that his Democrat-led coalition was put together by the army, the monarchy or whoever else is simply not true.

- Both the yellow and the red leaders fall within the "rich/elite" bracket; so do their financial and political backers. Yet the rank-and-file of both the UDD and the PAD are mostly poor.

There are not two sides, there are many. The biggest mistake by almost all commentators is that they put everything into two sides - yellow and red - which is convenient to simplify the news into a 90 second report.

[anterian]

I agree with Ruble and Pi Sek, in fact I rather implied this when I said that not all reds are bad just as not all yellows are good. The political situation in Thailand has many facets, it is a rich blend of poor and rich, monarchists and republicans, crooks and scoundrels, Buddhists, non Buddhists and Moslems, activist and many who couldn't care less, plus of course contant meddling by the police and military and probably a few external agencies like the CIA and the Russian mafia;)

At the root of all this there are several causes, poor education, restricted public information and censorship, plus generations of indoctrination to follow the dictates of the local boss. A democratic vote should be exercised as the result of informed opinion, this is not possible in Thailand.

I am the only person in my village with Internet access, as a result even though my Thai is minimal, I know more about what goes on than my Thai neighbours who have to rely on the government controlled TV channels.

[whybother]

I agree with Ruble and Pi Sek, in fact I rather implied this when I said that not all reds are bad just as not all yellows are good. The political situation in Thailand has many facets, it is a rich blend of poor and rich, monarchists and republicans, crooks and scoundrels, Buddhists, non Buddhists and Moslems, activist and many who couldn't care less, plus of course contant meddling by the police and military and probably a few external agencies like the CIA and the Russian mafia;)

At the root of all this there are several causes, poor education, restricted public information and censorship, plus generations of indoctrination to follow the dictates of the local boss. A democratic vote should be exercised as the result of informed opinion, this is not possible in Thailand.

I am the only person in my village with Internet access, as a result even though my Thai is minimal, I know more about what goes on than my Thai neighbours who have to rely on the government controlled TV channels.

Do they listen to radios, read newspapers, talk to their neighbours and people in the village? The government control access to the internet as much as they control what is on TV.

[anterian]

I agree with Ruble and Pi Sek, in fact I rather implied this when I said that not all reds are bad just as not all yellows are good. The political situation in Thailand has many facets, it is a rich blend of poor and rich, monarchists and republicans, crooks and scoundrels, Buddhists, non Buddhists and Moslems, activist and many who couldn't care less, plus of course contant meddling by the police and military and probably a few external agencies like the CIA and the Russian mafia;)

At the root of all this there are several causes, poor education, restricted public information and censorship, plus generations of indoctrination to follow the dictates of the local boss. A democratic vote should be exercised as the result of informed opinion, this is not possible in Thailand.

I am the only person in my village with Internet access, as a result even though my Thai is minimal, I know more about what goes on than my Thai neighbours who have to rely on the government controlled TV channels.

Do they listen to radios, read newspapers, talk to their neighbours and people in the village? The government control access to the internet as much as they control what is on TV.

I have never seen a newspaper in my village, its about 5 Km to the nearest 7/11. The villagers rely on gossip and the TV. As to the Internet, I can access most information I want and what is theoretically denied to me is available in England and easily accessed.