Vicious Beating On Khao San Road

[jomama]

At Sawasdee House - Soi Rambuttri, Kao San Road area

First and foremost, please understand that this was one isolated incident on one of the most amazing trips I've ever been on. Thailand blew away all expectations I had of it and the Thai people, overall, were some of the friendliest people I've met.

Unfortunately, on the night of July 14th, I witnessed one of the worst beatings of a human I have ever seen, all at the hands of the wait and bar staff of the Sawasdee House on Soi Rambuttri in BKK. I was having drinks with a friend that I was traveling with and a few other backpackers that we met in the bar earlier that evening when a small argument started on the other side of the room. The next thing I know, there are 6-8 local bar staff beating up one backpacker while other bar staff were holding his friends away. They took turns beating him with pipes, fists, and feet, even after he had been knocked unconscious and was lying on the ground in a pool of blood. Worst of all, the staff were laughing with each other as, one by one, they took turns kicking him in the face while unprotected on the floor. After about ten minutes of this beating, his friends were allowed to pick him up and take him out of there.

I understand that normal rules don't often apply in foreign countries and that you must always be on high alert for these problems. I assumed that the farang had attempted to steal a bottle/money from the bar or something of that nature for this to occur. However, after the incident I asked my waiter (as he wiped blood from his shirt and shoes) why this incident happened. He stared at me with glaring eyes, said that their was a discrepency in his bill, and the farang didn't believe he should pay the extra part of his bill. He then continued to tell me that if I did not pay my bill right then that the same thing was going to happen to me. Needless to say, I immediately paid my bill and left the restaurant to avoid any further conflict. An incident like this is inexcusable for the circumstances and the threatening manner that was taken after the incident further justifies this posting.

As mentioned above, I know incidents like these are very rare in Thailand. This is even more reason to boycott an establishment like the Sawasdee House because there are so many other hard-working establishments in the area. Please, do not give your money to this establishment. THEY DO NOT DESERVE YOUR MONEY.

I hope that Travelfish and Lonely Planet will take these actions into account and post this for a time to come.

[LoveDaBlues]

I stayed at 'Rambuttri Village Inn' just a short walk from Khoa San Road. Is this bar nearby? I don't remember the name. Of all the places I visited in Thailand I didn't like BKK at all. It's a pity what happened. I wonder if it had been someone other than a backpacker would this have happened in the same way? I got the impression that the 'backpack' crowd was treated with less respect than most other tourists.

His friends should have taken pics of his face for future reference and gone to the police.......I wonder if they did?

[jomama]

This posted by one of those injured:

i feel obliged to issue a fair warning - as well as look for some advice...

i personally ask you to BOYCOTT the Sawasdee Guesthouse and Restaurant on Rambuttri lane, Banglamphu (the lane is just north of the west end of Khao Sarn rd)

my partner and i and another girl we were out with have just been brutally attacked by staff at this restaurant/guesthouse.

we were having a quiet drink, just the 3 of us, in the small hours of the morning (1 or 2 beers) and had been paying the cheque as each beer was served. we got up to leave and were presented with a new bill (300B). an argument resulted over us not paying for it, as we had already paid. after having spent 3 months in india, i'm fairly fed up with this sort of 'scam' and stated the ridiculousness of it and went to leave.

the result - i got punched in the face by one of the waiters. repeatedly. of course my partner and the other girl tried to intervene and i got thrown across the room into furniture and other people. on turning around i saw at least 2 waiters then punching and kicking my friends. other thai's ran in, which i thought was to help us, but instead it was more thai staff joining in the forray. there were at least 5 of them, and my two friends were curled up on the floor in a ball while being repeatedly bashed. none of us fought back whatsoever. something we actually perhaps regret now!

one of the waiters produced a metal bar and hit us also with that (as i attempted to pull the men away from my friends) and that has lead to stitches on my partners head and a few lumps and bumps to boot. there was blood everywhere and they just wouldnt stop. only upon me running out to the lane and screaming police as loud as i could did they back off and let my friends scrape themselves off the floor and find an ambulance. we have since spent over US$1000 in hospital bills thanks to the kind caring staff at Sawasdee!

police eventually came to the lane but wouldnt attend the scene of the crime (stood at least 50m away) and provided us with no help what-so-ever. they wouldnt take a statement, or let us indicate the criminals. they took no names and in fact didnt even speak to us. they just stood their with their hands in the pockets. this will almost definitely be because they are paid by the restaurant to look the other way. i have since been back to the police station and given a statement and shown a photo i took of one of the responding officers, but i sincerely doubt anything will happen.

what i want to know is - HOW can we tell people what the staff at this very popular guesthouse restaurant are prepared to do? i dont think a business serving foreign backpackers like that should be allowed to continue!

we have since been told by a girl that she witnessed only 2 nights before a similar incident at the SAME place. a UK backpacker being continually bashed and beaten by the staff on the street out the front. this is obviously not an isolated event. i have no idea what 'started' that incident, but NOTHING can deserve that sort of brutality.

what should we do?

what would you do?

[Curt]

They took turns beating him with pipes, fists, and feet, even after he had been knocked unconscious and was lying on the ground in a pool of blood. Worst of all, the staff were laughing with each other as, one by one, they took turns kicking him in the face while unprotected on the floor. After about ten minutes of this beating, his friends were allowed to pick him up and take him out of there

Although I've been reading about this incident for some time, something just struck me.

I didn't realize there was an audience.

We "watched" for 10 minutes?!

Did someone nail the doors shut?!

IMHO, reinforcements would have been in order.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I agree Curt.

[jomama]

Actually, in the discussion, someone proposed a "vigilante" group. A fellow from the UK replied and said he and his "mates" are on their way to BKK anyway and will stop by the "restaurant" in question.

[LoveDaBlues]

Reinforcements? Who, from where? The police would not help. Although not stated perhaps they had no other friends nearby. They were at the mercy of a bunch of a$$holes.

The cops suck......obviously paid off or perhaps have a vested interest in the place.

I'll never understand the mentality.......they need tourist dollars but then treat the tourist like shit......especially in BKK.

[Curt]

One account says a friend was beaten and they were beaten trying to help.

Another account says it was one person beaten "on the other side of the room".

Still another account takes place outside.

The police would not help

I doubt they would have been a hinderance.

The cops suck......obviously paid off or perhaps have a vested interest in the place.

Obviously!

Although not stated perhaps they had no ... friends nearby

PERHAPS !!!!!

That's why I suggested the peanut gallery send out for help.

I'll never understand the mentality.......they need tourist dollars but then treat the tourist like shit......especially in BKK

I spend a minimum of 3 months a year in Bangkok.

I'm always treated exceptionally well.

Edited July 30, 2005 by Curt

[COBBER]

If a dispute like this arises and you cannot resolve it with rational discussion , pay the bill and go to the tourist police. They will come back with you and stay in the background, while the situation is resolved. Do not take on thais or upset them in any way. You dont know how many of them are around the corner. They will come out of the woodwork.

[LoveDaBlues]

I'm glad certain people are treated well in BKK. I was drugged and robbed there. The staff at the hotel.....who spoke English really well when I booked in....all of a sudden their English became very poor and they offered no help at all when I reported this.......they couldn't have cared less. BKK sucks in my opinion ......... many other places in Thailand I enjoyed. Why would anyone want to visit/live somewhere where a person can be attacked by a mob......at a BUSINESS ......and the cops stand around with a finger up their a$$es? Oh, did I mention....BKK sucks IMO.

I'll only set foot in BKK because of the airport.

[Richard Hall]

Just a few thoughts:

Stay generally away from weird places and thugs independant from where you are in the word may it be in BKK or any other major city. If one decides to neglect the advice he should not rely on others but rather just himself. If one has naturally a quick tongue he should assure that his fists can possibly match the speed. Just in case because it may take a while until an attorney or a friendly policeman show up.

Use your time in Thailand to take a few muay thai lessons rather than wasting your time in watering holes 'coz it may benefit you severely one day.

Eventually, please don't blame Bangkok or the Thai people in general but rather think about it how this incident could have been avoided.

Cheers,

Richard (Bangkokian)

[daleyboy]

Did anyone think to contact the tourist police?

[terdsak_12]

In my experiences with Thais they don't beat the ###### out of you for questioning a 300 Baht bill. With most of these stories there always seems to be some vital piece of info left out.

[Gazza]

With most of these stories there always seems to be some vital piece of info left out.

The third side of the story.......the truth.

[chonabot]

It sounds awful , but IMO you should have fought back, especially when you realized that turning the other cheek wasn't working.

I would want to burn this place to the ground , but this kind of thing never happens to me luckily.

[DJ Pat]

In my experiences with Thais they don't beat the ###### out of you for questioning a 300 Baht bill. With most of these stories there always seems to be some vital piece of info left out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How rude were these backpackers to the staff? I have heard sooooo many stories from locals in that area who hate the obnoxious backpacker budget types who have read Lonely Planet wayyy too many times and are HOPING to get scammed just because they expect it.

These same people who were the victims strike me as the type who would exclaim "But you cant do that I am a British National" if they arrested for anything.

###### em they deserved it.

Edited July 30, 2005 by DJ Pat

[Neeranam]

KSR, what a joke.

I lived there for about 3 months about 13 years ago.

I got beaten up once for doing a runner from a game of snooker where the Thai guy was so obviously cheating(with the help of the marker). I was piseed as a fart so they thought I didn't realize.

I have a one friend, who is a drunk, and was nearly killed there.

We nearly got a posse together to get revenge, but would have been a bad idea.

Forget it, is the only way.

I went down there to meet a travelling cousin about 2 years ago and was sitting in a couple of those restaurants and watching the goings on in a totally different way from before, because I can speak Thai now. The staff didn't realise this though.

I was amazed at how much they really hate some of the backpackers, totally slagging them off whilst giving that smile, and the backpackers retorting about how nice they are.

They have to put on their fake smile all day every day, while these rich kids pass through. They bottle a lot of stuff up, and when they explode they have a real laugh doing so, in a word - scum!

No difference between them and the scum in Pattaya and Pat Pong.

I don't ever want to go back there.

[Buff-horns]

they dont understand the old adage of farang kinok !

if a backpacker is dirty and grimey as many are , they are considered to be lowlife scum by thais.

[Curt]

It's very rare for service workers not to hold patrons in contempt.

Although many will begin with a positive attitude, it is soon lost.

Dealing with drunks is the worst.

My experience with Bangkok only spans about 10 years.

But, I've seen a radical change in attitude, not so much by the Thais, but by the visitors.

People used to read guidebooks to reseach their destinations.

Reading about places still doesn't remove the "mystery".

All the books on Thailand addressed modesty, politeness, and demeanor.

There would be a laundry list of cultural considerations.

Then came the forums.

Everyone has become an expert and lends their "reality" to the topic.

Any mystery is lost.

Thai's are culturally sensitive? Don't make me laugh!

Dress modestly? I see Thai girls dressed provocatively all the time!

Don't argue or show hostility? Don't let the little bastards screw you!

All the cops are crooked!

Everyone's out to scam you!

The land of (phoney) smiles!

It's my vacation; I'll do want I want!

I'm not trying to take a moral high ground.

Anyone can travel in any manner they choose.

But, how one presents himself might just make the difference as to whether he is treated as a guest or a mark.

[daleyboy]

Thai's are culturally sensitive? Don't make me laugh!

Thai's are culturally sensitive, you are obviously just to ignorant to notice this

Dress modestly? I see Thai girls dressed provocatively all the time!

You are obviously hanging around in the wrong parts then arent you

Don't argue or show hostility? Don't let the little bastards screw you!

This goes for any country, you show hostility in your own country you will face the same if not worse retribution

It's my vacation; I'll do want I want![/i]

Exactly the attitude that probably got the op into the situation in the first place

[Curt]

Thai's are culturally sensitive? Don't make me laugh!

Thai's are culturally sensitive, you are obviously just to ignorant to notice this

Dress modestly? I see Thai girls dressed provocatively all the time!

You are obviously hanging around in the wrong parts then arent you

Don't argue or show hostility? Don't let the little bastards screw you!

This goes for any country, you show hostility in your own country you will face the same if not worse retribution

It's my vacation; I'll do want I want![/i]

Exactly the attitude that probably got the op into the situation in the first place

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This was a classic example of a forum discussion on the subject.

Today, most people believe the only reason to bring long pants is if they plan to visit certain temples.

Although you got my point, it seems you might have missed my point of view.

I've spent as much time on KSR as it takes to walk from one end to the other (literally passing through).

Other than taking in an occasional movie at the Emporium, I spend no time on Sukhumvit.

When in Bangkok, I'm not on 'holiday'; I live with a Thai family.

[uncle paul]

i know khaosan very well as i have many friends with businesses down there. everbody and i mean everybody pays the local police for protection therefore they aint going to do a thing to mess this up.

attacks like this will be tollerated by police as they know they can ask for more the next vist.

i must admit ive never had a problem down there or see anyone get a beating like this: i have seen foreign tourists playing up big time down there without so much as a slap as most businesses seem to think the odd farang playing up has to be tolerated for the general good of the business.

Thailand is about who you know & if you dont know anyone you can get serious sh1t especially from the local police, however, when a call comes from high above things get sorted. you just have to decide whether its worth pulling in a favour. personally i put up with all the stupid fines for driving etc as it only costs 100 baht or so and for that im not going to waste anyones time as i know when something serious happens i am well protected from the police

[IMA_FARANG]

At Sawasdee House - Soi Rambuttri, Kao San Road area

First and foremost, please understand that this was one isolated incident on one of the most amazing trips I've ever been on. Thailand blew away all expectations I had of it and the Thai people, overall, were some of the friendliest people I've met.

Unfortunately, on the night of July 14th, I witnessed one of the worst beatings of a human I have ever seen, all at the hands of the wait and bar staff of the Sawasdee House on Soi Rambuttri in BKK. I was having drinks with a friend that I was traveling with and a few other backpackers that we met in the bar earlier that evening when a small argument started on the other side of the room. The next thing I know, there are 6-8 local bar staff beating up one backpacker while other bar staff were holding his friends away. They took turns beating him with pipes, fists, and feet, even after he had been knocked unconscious and was lying on the ground in a pool of blood. Worst of all, the staff were laughing with each other as, one by one, they took turns kicking him in the face while unprotected on the floor. After about ten minutes of this beating, his friends were allowed to pick him up and take him out of there.

I understand that normal rules don't often apply in foreign countries and that you must always be on high alert for these problems. I assumed that the farang had attempted to steal a bottle/money from the bar or something of that nature for this to occur. However, after the incident I asked my waiter (as he wiped blood from his shirt and shoes) why this incident happened. He stared at me with glaring eyes, said that their was a discrepency in his bill, and the farang didn't believe he should pay the extra part of his bill. He then continued to tell me that if I did not pay my bill right then that the same thing was going to happen to me. Needless to say, I immediately paid my bill and left the restaurant to avoid any further conflict. An incident like this is inexcusable for the circumstances and the threatening manner that was taken after the incident further justifies this posting.

As mentioned above, I know incidents like these are very rare in Thailand. This is even more reason to boycott an establishment like the Sawasdee House because there are so many other hard-working establishments in the area. Please, do not give your money to this establishment. THEY DO NOT DESERVE YOUR MONEY.

I hope that Travelfish and Lonely Planet will take these actions into account and post this for a time to come.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In my time in Thailand I have heard of or seen such incidents.

You must be aware there is a criminal class in Thailand.

Like any city in the world, a person has to be careful, especially late at night.

There are types who try to prey on foriegners.

Unfortunately, sometimes the criminals are in league with the police.

I was once in a situation on a late night in a bar on Patpong road. I started to realize something was wrong when many of the customers left quickly. Two obvious Muay Thai Boxing trained types posted themselves by the door. I was then presented with a bill for 5000 baht.

No one was being allowed to leave the bar unless they paid the phoney bill. I was told if I wanted to leave, I'd have to pay the 5000.

Eventually I negotiated down to 1500 baht, by letting the guy in charge know that was all I had. He agreed to let me leave. During the discussion I mentioned the tourist police. He just laughed at me, said he had the police paid off, and anyhow before I got to the police, I would already be in the hospital.

Still you have to go to the police/tourist police. You probably won't get any satisfaction, but do what you can. There are honest police. Not all of them are paid off.

Some of them do want to make Thailand a better place.

[bkkmadness]

Does seem like there is more to this incident than meets the eye. The guy said he was already p.issed off about being scammed in india, perhaps the backpacker let his mouth run off too much and got a stomping for it, I have seen it happen many a time in the area.

On the other hand I know a lot of people in that area and even when I didn't never had any hassle there when disputing a bill, I suppose its how you dispute it. I'm polite and if need be will ask to speak to the boss.

In fact, never had trouble in Bangkok before like this, I do often wonder how people get theirselves into such much s.hit in Bangkok, its a pretty chilled place if you act right.

As I think Tersdak, DJ Pat and someone else said, more to this than meets the eye.

[jomama]

We live in Chiang Mai and recently included a rather long stay in Bangkok as part of our summer trip -- and had a great time. No hassles, the Skytrain and subway were great and the place seemed to be clean, or at least cleaner than I ever remember it. We visited Khao San Road because I've never been there, and it too seemed cleaner than I expected given all the reports I've heard. We had no problems at all (of course that was in the daytime and everyone was sober).

All that said, there is no excuse for the staff at a restaurant to attack customers with fists, pipes and feet. Even if they were mouthy self-important "travellers" (and there is no actual proof that was the case in any event).

We had a tour business in Chiang Mai at one time and got out of it because these so-called "travellers" (you know of course they're not mere tourists or backpackers -- they're much deeper than that, or so they will insist). I won't list the litany of how hypocritical many are...

But if brutal beatings are the means to deal with them, then it should be posted and publicized. At least they will know what they're dealing with. I know not to go to the backwoods of the South in the U.S. or the ghettos of the cities and get drunk with the locals -- I might get beaten with pipes or something.

[The Dude]

Clearly this story is outright fiction, nice try though jo's mama. My guess is they were charged a few precious baht more than they thought so they made up this elaborate story of a brural beating. No doubt they went to the guest house on a super duper cheapo special and were freaked about how the legit biz makes up for it on the drinks. I hope that the posters who bought this story can now see that it is an outright lie. Curt already pointed out how this would never stand up in court. Solid job Curt and I understand DJPat's feeling as well.. Take it elsewhere Jo, like the LP bored

[lampard10]

I must admit I have never been to KSR. I would like to visit sometime, just to say I've been, but have no plans for the future. I am also lucky enough to oversee an establishment that has the proud record of never having had a fight in the 2 1/2 years that I have been there. As for overcharging and disputed bills; of course we get them. Normally though it's the other way round. We have not put enough on the bill. We are cheap enough for people to be honest. We do get the occaisional person that disputes his bin, slurring that he only had two beers why was he being charged for four. We have a simple remedy. We let them off the first time, and thereafter they pay for each beer as they drink them. End of argument. No more problems.

There was a place in Surin, that is closed now for four or five years, where the owner used to put a couple of beers on nearly everyones bill. He even had a local stooge, an English man that he used to give free beer to, to tell everyone how honest he was. The guy confessed to that fact recently, just before he died. Funny enough that place is still in 'Lonely Planet' as the only place in Surin to visit, despite the fact it has long shut and the owner drummed out of town. Nearly all my customers, be they back-packers,locals,tourists, workers from BKK,visitors from Pattaya or other resorts are well behaved, good mannered and really enjoy visiting our humble establishment. In fact the only trouble we experience is just lately from posts on Thai Visa running the place down, some by people who have never been here, but funnily enough all posted from the same computor. I must have upset someone. Can't imagine who. Also as I have said on numerous occaisions, there have also been around 40 or 50 TV members through. And they are only the ones I know about.One day I shall visit the KSR to see if they all keep as good a house as I do. Don't know when yet though.

[Curt]

My posts aren't really so much to discredit the incident.

I just don't believe in "random acts of violence".

[OlRedEyes]

Quite amazing the constant excuses made for incident after incident after incident. Generally, 'sensitive culture' is thrown in somewhere, every time.

After 12 years around Thailand, my observation is Thai culture is a stretch fabric, one size fits all situations. An excuse for barbaric behaviour, rip-offs, lies and just about everything else you can think of.

Let me hasten to add, not all Thais hide so strongly behind their culture. It is more that a lot of farang simply use it to make the unacceptable palatable.

Of course many tourists are rude, some because they've been ripped of many times along the way, some just because. Rudeness does not deserve a beating in civilized society, and a business, hotel or guest house is expected to be civilized. I have encountered much ruder behaviour from Thais, and never took to a lead pipe.

In the past two years in the Land of Smiles (sic) I have heard of more tourists being killed and attacked than I heard of in 20 years living in an African country going through major social upheaval.

Accept Thailand for what it is, I do thats why I still live here, amongst other reasons, but don't defend the indefensible desperately at every turn. Get real.

[Curt]

The mind wobbles.......