Petrol/Gas/Gasahol 91,95 Another 91

[ChiangMaiFun]

Jeeze... 91, 95, another 91

Why can't they have 4 star, 3 star and lead-free like any other nation? or 'premium', 'standard' etc.

I get confused everytime I fill-up.

[floridaguy]

There are 2 types of non-diesel gasoline. There is what is locally called benzene, or "benz" which is your regulare gas. This comes in 91 and 95, of course 95 being premium. Then there is gasohol 91 and 95, which has ethanol mixed in. Search the forum and you can see the new color code. Basically, if you want real gas, ask for benz in whatever octane you want, if you want ethanol, ask for gasohol in whatever octane you want.

This is actually a more accurate naming system, since it shows the actual octane of the fuel. "Premium" is not accurate enough, since it doesn't specify the octane. In the US, premium can refer to anything over 92 octane. So this is a better system, as long as you can understand the basics of fuels and octanes.

Edited October 21, 2010 by floridaguy

[ChiangMaiFun]

There are 2 types of non-diesel gasoline. There is what is locally called benzene, or "benz" which is your regulare gas. This comes in 91 and 95, of course 95 being premium. Then there is gasohol 91 and 95, which has ethanol mixed in. Search the forum and you can see the new color code. Basically, if you want real gas, ask for benz in whatever octane you want, if you want ethanol, ask for gasohol in whatever octane you want.

This is actually a more accurate naming system, since it shows the actual octane of the fuel. "Premium" is not accurate enough, since it doesn't specify the octane. In the US, premium can refer to anything over 92 octane. So this is a better system, as long as you can understand the basics of fuels and octanes.

Thanks - but you think they could come up with a different classification than 2 91s and 2 95s? and Shell has different again.

so how do we know what to put in my Fino and Yaris? Thais friends have no clue too

[ChiangMaiFun]

Your rides handbook will divulge all about acceptable fuels for it.

wish it was in English

[WarpSpeed]

As well both 91-95 "Benzine" are far more rare and even more so 91 these days, here in Bangkok I've yet to find 91 and that also includes some travel to other places like Pattaya and I only know of one station that carries the 95 here as well out of dozens I've checked in different parts of Bangkok.

[WarpSpeed]

Your rides handbook will divulge all about acceptable fuels for it.

wish it was in English

What about those Thai friends you mention? Can they read and translate Thai for you enough to tell you??.................................... On second thought, I guess not, since you mentioned they are also clueless .

[SantiSuk]

When I used to hire a wide range of petrol Toyotas from Budget in Ubon (up to a year ago) they used to advise benzene over gasohol (cheaper overall though slightly more expensive at the pump) and don't waste your money on 95 if you can get 91.

I would love to see a more scientific analysis of fuel performance and engine wear.

Now I have a diesel Toyota I assume the same principles re diesel tamadar over bio diesel. Does anyone know what the relative fuel performance of the two types of diesel is?

[Kwasaki]

There are 2 types of non-diesel gasoline. There is what is locally called benzene, or "benz" which is your regulare gas. This comes in 91 and 95, of course 95 being premium. Then there is gasohol 91 and 95, which has ethanol mixed in. Search the forum and you can see the new color code. Basically, if you want real gas, ask for benz in whatever octane you want, if you want ethanol, ask for gasohol in whatever octane you want.

This is actually a more accurate naming system, since it shows the actual octane of the fuel. "Premium" is not accurate enough, since it doesn't specify the octane. In the US, premium can refer to anything over 92 octane. So this is a better system, as long as you can understand the basics of fuels and octanes.

Thanks - but you think they could come up with a different classification than 2 91s and 2 95s? and Shell has different again.

so how do we know what to put in my Fino and Yaris? Thais friends have no clue too

My wifes Yaris has a red sticker with 91 on it on the inside of the fuel cap cover it's a 1.5 v v t i engine, my daughters Fino red label with 91.

Fuel stations around here in Sukhothai all have ( red label 91) except Shell. There is much info on past threads on this topic.

[floridaguy]

As well both 91-95 "Benzine" are far more rare and even more so 91 these days, here in Bangkok I've yet to find 91 and that also includes some travel to other places like Pattaya and I only know of one station that carries the 95 here as well out of dozens I've checked in different parts of Bangkok.

Warp, don't you live around Thonglor-ish, or are you Chaeng Wattana-ish? There are several on Petchburi between Asoke and Phra Khanong. I fill up at a station just east of Thonglor on Petchburi, heading west toward Centralworld, near the big blue Siemens building, search google maps for 13.744143,100.587001. They have 91 benzine, the good stuff my bike requires. There is at least one more along that stretch on both sides, forget where. There are alot of high end cars - Bentley, Mercedes, Aston Martins, BMW - being sold along that stretch so they tend to carry both 95 and 91 benzine.

[Kwasaki]

As well both 91-95 "Benzine" are far more rare and even more so 91 these days, here in Bangkok I've yet to find 91 and that also includes some travel to other places like Pattaya and I only know of one station that carries the 95 here as well out of dozens I've checked in different parts of Bangkok.

Warp, don't you live around Thonglor-ish, or are you Chaeng Wattana-ish? There are several on Petchburi between Asoke and Phra Khanong. I fill up at a station just east of Thonglor on Petchburi, heading west toward Centralworld, near the big blue Siemens building, search google maps for 13.744143,100.587001. They have 91 benzine, the good stuff my bike requires. There is at least one more along that stretch on both sides, forget where. There are alot of high end cars - Bentley, Mercedes, Aston Martins, BMW - being sold along that stretch so they tend to carry both 95 and 91 benzine.

[WarpSpeed]

As well both 91-95 "Benzine" are far more rare and even more so 91 these days, here in Bangkok I've yet to find 91 and that also includes some travel to other places like Pattaya and I only know of one station that carries the 95 here as well out of dozens I've checked in different parts of Bangkok.

Warp, don't you live around Thonglor-ish, or are you Chaeng Wattana-ish? There are several on Petchburi between Asoke and Phra Khanong. I fill up at a station just east of Thonglor on Petchburi, heading west toward Centralworld, near the big blue Siemens building, search google maps for 13.744143,100.587001. They have 91 benzine, the good stuff my bike requires. There is at least one more along that stretch on both sides, forget where. There are alot of high end cars - Bentley, Mercedes, Aston Martins, BMW - being sold along that stretch so they tend to carry both 95 and 91 benzine.

Chaeng Wattana-ish, today I just noticed another Caltex on Chaeng Wattana that has 91 at 41.xxxx baht per litre so it must be based on that price... But still they are few and far between, even round these parts..

[ChiangMaiFun]

^{Maybe obvious question but can my Fino bike and Yaris car take Gasahol? whats the advantage of Benzine over Gasahol? I dont want to bugger up the engines}

[Kwasaki]

^{Maybe obvious question but can my Fino bike and Yaris car take Gasahol? whats the advantage of Benzine over Gasahol? I dont want to bugger up the engines}

After getting my magnifying glass out, if you intent to keep them a long time Gasahol will deteriate the engine quicker, something else that has been dicussed on here before.

[ChiangMaiFun]

^{Maybe obvious question but can my Fino bike and Yaris car take Gasahol? whats the advantage of Benzine over Gasahol? I dont want to bugger up the engines}

After getting my magnifying glass out, if you intent to keep them a long time Gasahol will deteriate the engine quicker, something else that has been dicussed on here before.

ok many thanks (not sure what happened to the font sorry)

[Kwasaki]

Gasahol It was mentioned back on page 5 about a Nissan using it, B5 diesels been discussed quite a bit..

l thought there was more on Gasahol here l probably saw it mentioned on the bike forum.

[bbradsby]

Having just bought a pretty nice Alfa I'd rather not damage with poor fuel, and seeing ethanol increasingly replacing benzine in all the mixes in LOS, I did some research and found some independent data at US Dept of Energy's alt fuel website. Other sites I found seemed to have an axe to grind, but your results may differ.

The best specific page I found was at www.afdc.energy.gov/afdc/ethanol/blends_e15_e20_research.html

If you care about your vehicle's fuel system components, DO take the time to download and actually read the petroleum engineer's pdf whitepaper in the last paragraph for some great reasons that up to E10 (10% ethanol) is fine for modern cars - but above that percentage I won't be venturing without a Flex Fuel-listed vehicle. FWIW, my A-B testing of the starting, drivability & power for a pretty high performance, stock, 2.0 litre injected gas engine using Shell V-Power 95 with 0% ethanol vs. PTT 95 E10 showed no differences whatsoever. Price diff is about 150 Baht for a full tank of about 50 litres so that's either chump change or enough to feed your family for a while depending on the octane of your lifestyle!

[WarpSpeed]

Having just bought a pretty nice Alfa I'd rather not damage with poor fuel, and seeing ethanol increasingly replacing benzine in all the mixes in LOS, I did some research and found some independent data at US Dept of Energy's alt fuel website. Other sites I found seemed to have an axe to grind, but your results may differ.

The best specific page I found was at www.afdc.energy.gov/afdc/ethanol/blends_e15_e20_research.html

If you care about your vehicle's fuel system components, DO take the time to download and actually read the petroleum engineer's pdf whitepaper in the last paragraph for some great reasons that up to E10 (10% ethanol) is fine for modern cars - but above that percentage I won't be venturing without a Flex Fuel-listed vehicle. FWIW, my A-B testing of the starting, drivability & power for a pretty high performance, stock, 2.0 litre injected gas engine using Shell V-Power 95 with 0% ethanol vs. PTT 95 E10 showed no differences whatsoever. Price diff is about 150 Baht for a full tank of about 50 litres so that's either chump change or enough to feed your family for a while depending on the octane of your lifestyle!

No difference in performance? What about mileage?

[powderpuff]

The Shell V power 95 you are buying today is E10.

One June 1 they sneakily switched without telling you.

Been discussed.

Edited October 24, 2010 by powderpuff

[madjbs]

You can find benzine 91 almost everywhere. I don't know why some people are saying it is difficult to find, because it isn't. Benzine 95 is much harder to come by but some stations do still supply it. Gasohol 91 and 95 you can get everywhere. Shell also do an extra premium gasohol called V-power.

[bkk_mike]

When I used to hire a wide range of petrol Toyotas from Budget in Ubon (up to a year ago) they used to advise benzene over gasohol (cheaper overall though slightly more expensive at the pump) and don't waste your money on 95 if you can get 91.

I would love to see a more scientific analysis of fuel performance and engine wear.

Now I have a diesel Toyota I assume the same principles re diesel tamadar over bio diesel. Does anyone know what the relative fuel performance of the two types of diesel is?

There are three issues with gasohol.

1. It has a lower power density than regular petrol (the octane being a rating based on how cleanly it burns - or a knocking factor), so you get less mpg, which is offset by the cheaper price.

2. If your engine wasn't built to run on fuels which are mixed with ethanol (gasohol), you can have problems as it can cause rubber seals to perish. (Cars designed to run on gasohol use seals without rubber in them.)

3. As the proportion of ethanol in the fuel increases, the engine will run hotter. This is more of an issue if the ethanol percentage is a lot higher than it is in Thailand.

Biodiesel on the other hand doesn't have these issues. And diesel engines will basically run happily on 100% biodiesel with no modifications. (Switchover can involve a few fuel filter replacements as it cleans out your engine, as it leaves less residue in your fuel system than regular diesel).

The only issue I've heard of here with biodiesel (which is only 5% biodiesel) was water contamination, where some water got mixed in with the biodiesel at source, but that was a couple of years ago.

In colder countries you can get issues with biodiesel separating in your tank, but since temperatures don't get that low here, I doubt it's an issue in Thailand.

Edited October 24, 2010 by bkk_mike

[bbradsby]

Having just bought a pretty nice Alfa I'd rather not damage with poor fuel, and seeing ethanol increasingly replacing benzine in all the mixes in LOS, I did some research and found some independent data at US Dept of Energy's alt fuel website. Other sites I found seemed to have an axe to grind, but your results may differ.

The best specific page I found was at www.afdc.energy.gov/afdc/ethanol/blends_e15_e20_research.html

If you care about your vehicle's fuel system components, DO take the time to download and actually read the petroleum engineer's pdf whitepaper in the last paragraph for some great reasons that up to E10 (10% ethanol) is fine for modern cars - but above that percentage I won't be venturing without a Flex Fuel-listed vehicle. FWIW, my A-B testing of the starting, drivability & power for a pretty high performance, stock, 2.0 litre injected gas engine using Shell V-Power 95 with 0% ethanol vs. PTT 95 E10 showed no differences whatsoever. Price diff is about 150 Baht for a full tank of about 50 litres so that's either chump change or enough to feed your family for a while depending on the octane of your lifestyle!

No difference in performance? What about mileage?

Hard to really do a scientific A-B test on mileage, based on the vagaries of BKK traffic and variations in my trips in the last few weeks. Plus one gas station jockey's 'full' might be very different from another's. I'm used to pumping my own gas stateside. But the mileage I recorded for both were very close together, but don't have the numbers in front of me.

Remember that ethanol is just an octane booster that burns cleaner than benzine, so was a replacement for MTBE that the US is now finding in their drinking water. The O-ring/ethanol issue dates to the 1970's and WAS a real concern but is now an urban myth. No modern cars have ethanol-sensitive seals & fuel system components these days, if you're talking about E10 or less. Above that, check with your vehicle manufacturer, but the above-referenced pdf link raises some very real concerns. This is why E85-compliant vehicles have highly modified fuel systems/components - ethanol has an affinity for water, and attacks some metals commonly found in fuel systems as well as exhaust catalysts. One of my take-aways was that for a high performance bike, I'll be sticking to 100% benzine if at all possible, and E5 max if forced into it for street use only - not on the track.

[bbradsby]

The Shell V power 95 you are buying today is E10.

One June 1 they sneakily switched without telling you.

Been discussed.

Interesting, and completely believable. The Shell pump jockey said the 0% ethanol V-Power was still available at some stations. But they're not exactly PhD candidates, eh?