Butter Is Better

[butterisbetter]

Clearly when you freeze bread the crust never comes back to being crunchy, unless perhaps if you do work on it after taking it out of the freezer? It'll be cold and dead coming out of there.

Well, the only bread we make that should have a crunchy crust is the Italian Bread which we bake fresh every day. That said, I'm not sure if the crunchiness of the crust would survive freezing or not. What kills crunchiness is moisture. If a bread is frozen once it's cooled down to room temperature, and then allowed to defrost at its own natural pace, it might still be crunchy. I'll try to remember to sacrifice a loaf on the altar of science and let you know the results.

[CMX]

lingnoi1977,

Well, here I am confused again. Certainly advertisers have no shame and the term "gourmet" is doubtless used somewhere to push the worst of "hot dogs" and chili - or fish and chips.

So what are we who have traveled broadly, eaten upon "select" advice, studied kilos of cookbooks, and cook? Sophisticated food junkies? Self-elevated tasters? Chowhounds with an attitude? Arroganteaters?<my pick.

I have frozen crisp crusted French white breads (there) and allowed them to thaw normally; in my experiments something crispy was lost. In fact, freezing's negative effects are claimed (fish frequently used as an example as compared to fresh caught) to be associated with texture by many I've read. This in spite of tight wrapping.

Let me go way off topic and add that the preparation of vegetables here in Thailand at the most humble food stand should serve as an example for all the UK and its onetime empire. And I circled Nim City yesterday and didn't easily see what/where.

Edited November 3, 2010 by CMX

[Ulysses G.]

Remember when we were all talking into believing that CDs had much better sound quality than phonograph records? That was eventually proved to be incorrect.

A few years ago coconut oil was constantly derided as being terrible for the human body. Now it is considered a healthy food and much better for you than most cooking oils. The same thing goes for dark chocolate.

The accepted "wisdom" is often wrong.

[lingnoi1977]

lingnoi1977,

Well, here I am confused again. Certainly advertisers have no shame and the term "gourmet" is doubtless used somewhere to push the worst of "hot dogs" and chili - or fish and chips.

So what are we who have traveled broadly, eaten upon "select" advice, studied kilos of cookbooks, and cook? Sophisticated food junkies? Self-elevated tasters? Chowhounds with an attitude? Arroganteaters?<my pick.

I have frozen crisp crusted French white breads (there) and allowed them to thaw normally; in my experiments something crispy was lost. In fact, freezing's negative effects are claimed (fish frequently used as an example as compared to fresh caught) to be associated with texture by many I've read. This in spite of tight wrapping.

Let me go way off topic and add that the preparation of vegetables here in Thailand at the most humble food stand should serve as an example for all the UK and its onetime empire. And I circled Nim City yesterday and didn't easily see what/where.

Hello CMX.

Respectfully, my simple mind can not fully appreciate your intricate dialogue. I think I know what you are stating but not 100% sure.

Ok, I will put myself in the category of a self-elevated taster, arrogant eater (like that one) etc., but only selectively and certainly not as broadly as I would like. We learn and experience everyday - if we want to.

I think like every industry there are over used words or cliches such as 'gourmet' and 'fresh'. Not just a word but a whole concept - shudder! The problem with it, in my view is that consumers are lead to believe that the 'gourmet' or 'fresh' product in question is good quality - better than the silent product. I know I steer well clear of anything that states its own quality level. I believe in going down the word of mouth route and making an educated opinion based on my own experience and level of understanding.

Perhaps your fresh vegetable diversion is a little bit of a generalization? You might upset a few people, especially those who are proud of their gourmet heritage...

[KRS1]

I think you would have to a long way to find a gourmet that will tell you fresh is not best.

Well, let's take the case of seafood, where freshness is reckoned to be crucial. And not just any seafood, but sushi.

"But Shin Tsujimura, the sushi chef at Nobu, closer to Wall Street, said he

froze his own tuna.'Even I cannot tell the difference between fresh and frozen in a blind test,' he said."

The above appeared in an April 8, 2004 article in the New York Times.

But let's concede, for the sake of argument, that fresh is better. Does that mean it's the sine qua non? Apparently, based on your first comment and last comment, for you it is.

But those of us who actually work with food, know the issue is much more complicated. For one thing it depends on the food. Fresh fruits really can't be frozen and taste fresh when eaten raw. But on the other hand for making pies, frozen cherries and blueberries perform brilliantly. I don't intend to rehearse here the idyll that wasn't my childhood, but I used to harvest huge amounts of sour cherries for my mother, and help her pit them and freeze them. All winter long she baked pies that to me at, least, and others who had the good fortune to eat them, tasted scarcely distinguishable from fresh cherries. Of course, she made pies with a real buttercrust.

Actually, if you freeze the pie before baking, the pie crust becomes even flakier when baked. Most pie eaters believe that for pie crusts, flakier is better. According to you absolutists of freshness, apparently not.

Or let's return to the question of bread. Bread has the most flavor just after it has cooled to room temperature. So which is better? A loaf of bread that was frozen at the peak of its flavor or one you eat 2 hours after it was baked? How about 4 hours after it was baked? 6hours? I truly don't know the answer. Since you seem so definite on the issue, perhaps you could share the data you have rigorously accumulated with us? I'm sure you wouldn't be the kind of person to voice disparaging opinions of someone else's products based just on an ill-considered prejudice. I await your data with interest.

why is there no butter in your brownies? I am a brownie ninja and it taste like you are using cooking oil or margarine as a replacement along with coco powder instead of real chocolate.

if butter is better you should use it.

[uptheos]

I think you would have to a long way to find a gourmet that will tell you fresh is not best.

Well, let's take the case of seafood, where freshness is reckoned to be crucial. And not just any seafood, but sushi.

"But Shin Tsujimura, the sushi chef at Nobu, closer to Wall Street, said he

froze his own tuna.'Even I cannot tell the difference between fresh and frozen in a blind test,' he said."

The above appeared in an April 8, 2004 article in the New York Times.

But let's concede, for the sake of argument, that fresh is better. Does that mean it's the sine qua non? Apparently, based on your first comment and last comment, for you it is.

But those of us who actually work with food, know the issue is much more complicated. For one thing it depends on the food. Fresh fruits really can't be frozen and taste fresh when eaten raw. But on the other hand for making pies, frozen cherries and blueberries perform brilliantly. I don't intend to rehearse here the idyll that wasn't my childhood, but I used to harvest huge amounts of sour cherries for my mother, and help her pit them and freeze them. All winter long she baked pies that to me at, least, and others who had the good fortune to eat them, tasted scarcely distinguishable from fresh cherries. Of course, she made pies with a real buttercrust.

Actually, if you freeze the pie before baking, the pie crust becomes even flakier when baked. Most pie eaters believe that for pie crusts, flakier is better. According to you absolutists of freshness, apparently not.

Or let's return to the question of bread. Bread has the most flavor just after it has cooled to room temperature. So which is better? A loaf of bread that was frozen at the peak of its flavor or one you eat 2 hours after it was baked? How about 4 hours after it was baked? 6hours? I truly don't know the answer. Since you seem so definite on the issue, perhaps you could share the data you have rigorously accumulated with us? I'm sure you wouldn't be the kind of person to voice disparaging opinions of someone else's products based just on an ill-considered prejudice. I await your data with interest.

why is there no butter in your brownies? I am a brownie ninja and it taste like you are using cooking oil or margarine as a replacement along with coco powder instead of real chocolate.

if butter is better you should use it.

B is B website states: "Remember how rich and buttery pastries used to taste? At Butter is Better we do, too. That's why we use genuine butter and only butter in all our pastries".

Are you saying their web info is incorrect?

As a non brownie ninja I really wouldn't know, but I'd like to, so maybe B is B can respond.

[Ta22]

While some feel that butter is better , is not best to use butter in all thing you bake .

i am assuming this is just his marketing slogan .

[Ulysses G.]

i'm pretty sure that he does use pure butter in the brownies.

I have asked him to use virgin coconut oil in some of his healthy, whole grain creations and he uses it in vegan dishes, but he uses real butter in every recipe that it fits.

[uptheos]

i'm pretty sure that he does use pure butter in the brownies.

I have asked him to use virgin coconut oil in some of his healthy, whole grain creations and he uses it in vegan dishes, but he uses real butter in every recipe that it fits.

I've been going there a few times lately and have no complaints, everything tastes absolutely delicious, butter or not.......but I expect it is.......isn't it?

[Ulysses G.]

I asked his wife and she said that they do use butter in the brownies and very high quality cocoa - which is just as good as any other kind of chocolate. They taste fine to me, although the chocolate cake with frosting is even better.

[butterisbetter]

.

why is there no butter in your brownies? I am a brownie ninja and it taste like you are using cooking oil or margarine as a replacement along with coco powder instead of real chocolate.

if butter is better you should use it.

What a way to phrase a question! Perhaps you are a graduate of the when-did-you-stop-beating-your-wife school of inquiry? At least the earlier hostile remark about freezing had the merit of being based on the fact the we do freeze lots our bread. Your assertion is flat our false. We do in fact use butter, and only butter, and lots of it, as the shortening in our brownies.

As for cocoa, perhaps in the course of your career as a brownie ninja, the shocks you've taken to your tongue have affected your higher centers. Otherwise you would know that high quality cocoa alone can sustain a great brownie. In fact there is a chef who has earned himself or herself a well deserved reputation as a chocolate genius who makes a brownie just with cocoa. She might well be described as a chocolate ninja. ( And, unlike your case, that title wouldn't be self bestowed.) I'm sure that as a brownie ninja you had to know all about this recipe at one time. As I'm sure you had to know that cocoa is , in fact, the essence of chocolate. Maybe you're confusing cocoa with Nestle's Quik or Ovaltine?

Your decline is a sad thing to contemplate. The only reason I am not revealing this chocolate chef's name is that his or her recipe turns out to be shockingly close to my wife's recipe. However, if you care to bet say, $5000, I will reveal the person's name and the book the recipe appears in. If it turns out that this person is not as I describe him or her, you will be $5000 richer. I advise you not to take the bet. And while you're at it, maybe you should consider hanging up your spurs or bib or whatever paraphernalia it is that encumbers a brownie ninja. It's clear your best days are behind you, grasshopper.

[Ulysses G.]

I really enjoy when Mr. butterisbetter uses the tough love method to educate the ignorant masses about good food.

[Ta22]

my advice strongly for OP is to focus on baking and less words game .

customer always have the rights to question . and is seller Duty to answer , of cos you can choose not to answer . and everyone have the freedom to question and ask .

half the secret to good recipe is a good personality .

i think the parts about wife beating is too much even for a baker post .

hope you make better beard then winning a debate .

[anonymouse]

I really enjoy when Mr. butterisbetter uses the tough love method to educate the ignorant masses about good food.

especially self proclaimed brownie ninjas

[lingnoi1977]

I really enjoy when Mr. butterisbetter uses the tough love method to educate the ignorant masses about good food.

UG, we can thank the ignorant masses for leaving more of the good stuff for us to enjoy. Unfortunately for the craftsmen/women who make the culinary delights, the field is quite narrow here it seems. Ah well, quality will always find a good home.

[lingnoi1977]

my advice strongly for OP is to focus on baking and less words game .

customer always have the rights to question . and is seller Duty to answer , of cos you can choose not to answer . and everyone have the freedom to question and ask .

half the secret to good recipe is a good personality .

i think the parts about wife beating is too much even for a baker post .

hope you make better beard then winning a debate .

Ta22, a question is different from a snide remark and such a remark without the expilcit knowledge on the subject is plain ignorance.

On TV, one may never know wether such comments are based on ignorance or awkward social behaviour. Perhaps both.

It is not about winning a debate. It is about educating people - customers and undesirables alike.

[CMX]

KSR1

Sir, Madam, or Grasshopper:

#1. If it is butter and chocolate you seek (plus perhaps a bit of sugar), try their torte, chocolate torte I mean! I allow myself one slice each month. (Also, I desist just prior to chol. blood test.)

#2. Mr. BisB does not use butter in what some would regard as "health" bread, such as whole wheat, I seem to recall from earlier threads. Also, I find that when asking questions it is usually better (among Westerners) if I leave the question open, rather than as sort of pin-you-to-the-wall phrasing. Things go smoother, especially if the questionee admits to having been a New Yorker at one time. Every crafts man and woman takes great pride, I think, but New Yorkers also take umbrage. In short, New Yorkers can sometimes take the cake< sorry, Americanism.

Mighta been Child, though I don't recall her as a chocolatier. Wouldn't bet on it either way, however.

[KRS1]

.

why is there no butter in your brownies? I am a brownie ninja and it taste like you are using cooking oil or margarine as a replacement along with coco powder instead of real chocolate.

if butter is better you should use it.

What a way to phrase a question! Perhaps you are a graduate of the when-did-you-stop-beating-your-wife school of inquiry? At least the earlier hostile remark about freezing had the merit of being based on the fact the we do freeze lots our bread. Your assertion is flat our false. We do in fact use butter, and only butter, and lots of it, as the shortening in our brownies.

As for cocoa, perhaps in the course of your career as a brownie ninja, the shocks you've taken to your tongue have affected your higher centers. Otherwise you would know that high quality cocoa alone can sustain a great brownie. In fact there is a chef who has earned himself or herself a well deserved reputation as a chocolate genius who makes a brownie just with cocoa. She might well be described as a chocolate ninja. ( And, unlike your case, that title wouldn't be self bestowed.) I'm sure that as a brownie ninja you had to know all about this recipe at one time. As I'm sure you had to know that cocoa is , in fact, the essence of chocolate. Maybe you're confusing cocoa with Nestle's Quik or Ovaltine?

Your decline is a sad thing to contemplate. The only reason I am not revealing this chocolate chef's name is that his or her recipe turns out to be shockingly close to my wife's recipe. However, if you care to bet say, $5000, I will reveal the person's name and the book the recipe appears in. If it turns out that this person is not as I describe him or her, you will be $5000 richer. I advise you not to take the bet. And while you're at it, maybe you should consider hanging up your spurs or bib or whatever paraphernalia it is that encumbers a brownie ninja. It's clear your best days are behind you, grasshopper.

So you admit you are not using real chocolate in your chocolate brownies, but using coco powder as a substitute, which contains no coco butter because it is a powder. (butter is better right?)

If you put butter in your brownies, it must be like 1 tablespoon, when you need a whole stick.

My ninja brownie master was Julia Childs, she scoffs at mere mortals who use coco powder and will roundhouse kick a fake brownie back at you.

Regards,

brownie ninja

[KRS1]

KSR1

Sir, Madam, or Grasshopper:

#1. If it is butter and chocolate you seek (plus perhaps a bit of sugar), try their torte, chocolate torte I mean! I allow myself one slice each month. (Also, I desist just prior to chol. blood test.)

#2. Mr. BisB does not use butter in what some would regard as "health" bread, such as whole wheat, I seem to recall from earlier threads. Also, I find that when asking questions it is usually better (among Westerners) if I leave the question open, rather than as sort of pin-you-to-the-wall phrasing. Things go smoother, especially if the questionee admits to having been a New Yorker at one time. Every crafts man and woman takes great pride, I think, but New Yorkers also take umbrage. In short, New Yorkers can sometimes take the cake< sorry, Americanism.

Mighta been Child, though I don't recall her as a chocolatier. Wouldn't bet on it either way, however.

we're not in the west anymore....toto, i mean coco...ummm nevermind.

[KRS1]

my advice strongly for OP is to focus on baking and less words game .

customer always have the rights to question . and is seller Duty to answer , of cos you can choose not to answer . and everyone have the freedom to question and ask .

half the secret to good recipe is a good personality .

i think the parts about wife beating is too much even for a baker post .

hope you make better beard then winning a debate .

Ta22, a question is different from a snide remark and such a remark without the expilcit knowledge on the subject is plain ignorance.

On TV, one may never know wether such comments are based on ignorance or awkward social behaviour. Perhaps both.

It is not about winning a debate. It is about educating people - customers and undesirables alike.

ahhh but you see, i have explicit knowledge of brownie making...it would be ignorant to assume that i don't, cuz you don't know me or my brownie habits.

[KRS1]

.

why is there no butter in your brownies? I am a brownie ninja and it taste like you are using cooking oil or margarine as a replacement along with coco powder instead of real chocolate.

if butter is better you should use it.

What a way to phrase a question! Perhaps you are a graduate of the when-did-you-stop-beating-your-wife school of inquiry? At least the earlier hostile remark about freezing had the merit of being based on the fact the we do freeze lots our bread. Your assertion is flat our false. We do in fact use butter, and only butter, and lots of it, as the shortening in our brownies.

As for cocoa, perhaps in the course of your career as a brownie ninja, the shocks you've taken to your tongue have affected your higher centers. Otherwise you would know that high quality cocoa alone can sustain a great brownie. In fact there is a chef who has earned himself or herself a well deserved reputation as a chocolate genius who makes a brownie just with cocoa. She might well be described as a chocolate ninja. ( And, unlike your case, that title wouldn't be self bestowed.) I'm sure that as a brownie ninja you had to know all about this recipe at one time. As I'm sure you had to know that cocoa is , in fact, the essence of chocolate. Maybe you're confusing cocoa with Nestle's Quik or Ovaltine?

Your decline is a sad thing to contemplate. The only reason I am not revealing this chocolate chef's name is that his or her recipe turns out to be shockingly close to my wife's recipe. However, if you care to bet say, $5000, I will reveal the person's name and the book the recipe appears in. If it turns out that this person is not as I describe him or her, you will be $5000 richer. I advise you not to take the bet. And while you're at it, maybe you should consider hanging up your spurs or bib or whatever paraphernalia it is that encumbers a brownie ninja. It's clear your best days are behind you, grasshopper.

You talking about Willy Wonka? I think all those midgets stole your butter.

[Ulysses G.]

Another dissatisfied competitor.

[LJW]

As the maker of the best (and first commercial) brownies in Chiang Mai (1994-96) let me say that I used the best chocolate powder and lots of sugar and eggs in the recipe

[Sansai Sam]

Great response B&B but I wouldn't waste my time responding to these losers who have no clue what they're talking about but have nothing better to do in their lives than hide behind their keyboard and spout bulls***t. It's seems to be the frequent hobby of folks on this site. Invite him or her to visit you and me at the shop and talk about these unfounded accusations...unlikely as they don't come out from behind their screen names....Cheers!

Tim

And yes...I've been in the kitchen many times and not a shortening to be found except butter, butter and butter....have you?

.

why is there no butter in your brownies? I am a brownie ninja and it taste like you are using cooking oil or margarine as a replacement along with coco powder instead of real chocolate.

if butter is better you should use it.

What a way to phrase a question! Perhaps you are a graduate of the when-did-you-stop-beating-your-wife school of inquiry? At least the earlier hostile remark about freezing had the merit of being based on the fact the we do freeze lots our bread. Your assertion is flat our false. We do in fact use butter, and only butter, and lots of it, as the shortening in our brownies.

As for cocoa, perhaps in the course of your career as a brownie ninja, the shocks you've taken to your tongue have affected your higher centers. Otherwise you would know that high quality cocoa alone can sustain a great brownie. In fact there is a chef who has earned himself or herself a well deserved reputation as a chocolate genius who makes a brownie just with cocoa. She might well be described as a chocolate ninja. ( And, unlike your case, that title wouldn't be self bestowed.) I'm sure that as a brownie ninja you had to know all about this recipe at one time. As I'm sure you had to know that cocoa is , in fact, the essence of chocolate. Maybe you're confusing cocoa with Nestle's Quik or Ovaltine?

Your decline is a sad thing to contemplate. The only reason I am not revealing this chocolate chef's name is that his or her recipe turns out to be shockingly close to my wife's recipe. However, if you care to bet say, $5000, I will reveal the person's name and the book the recipe appears in. If it turns out that this person is not as I describe him or her, you will be $5000 richer. I advise you not to take the bet. And while you're at it, maybe you should consider hanging up your spurs or bib or whatever paraphernalia it is that encumbers a brownie ninja. It's clear your best days are behind you, grasshopper.

You talking about Willy Wonka? I think all those midgets stole your butter.

Edited November 27, 2010 by Sansai Sam