American Jumps To His Death

[JPPR2]

Firstly. RIP. I guess in his state of mind he was gripped and did what he felt was necessary.

There a huge number of homeless people in the US that routinely commit suicide. Hearing about it happening abroad does not surprise me. We have no idea why he went to Thailand, what he started with in regards to resources and his plan. I have read many articles where people exit their native country because they are dieing and do not want to burden their immediate family and friends.

IMO it is not the responsibility of any government to jump in and offer money to assist. There are endless options for people to find their way out of the "Darkside" but most chose not to take action and let it consume them. There is a huge difference between a "Rescuer" and an "Enabler"

[WarpSpeed]

There are endless options for people to find their way out of the "Darkside" but most chose not to take action and let it consume them. There is a huge difference between a "Rescuer" and an "Enabler"

Really?? Please enlighten us?? And not with conjecture, supposition or theory please, only factually proven tried and true services available....

Edited November 9, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[smokie36]

If you're out of the UK for many years, you won't be able to walk back into immediate benefits, cos your English.

Best bet, get really drunk and do some Air rage on the way home towards the end of the flight, you'll be arrested at Heathrow, put in a nice cell at Heathrow Police Station, get taken to court and hopefully jailed.

That way you're back in the system immediately and entitled to everything !! And they can't kick you out of Jail without you having an address, so you'll get help with that too, in fact, you'll get helped with everything, get your dental and all medical problems taken care of while you're at it !

If you arrive and land with nothing, you're really screwed, you will have to pay to get a prescription etc after being out of UK for so many years, getting arrested is much better. You'll get all the help available and be back in the system immediately, but you have to do something to get a jail sentence.

Air rage is a classic and has been used by people to get immediately back into the system, a UK guy I knew did just that, it was get arrested and get a bed and be in the system, or arrive in Heathrow with no money at all and nowhere to go and no bed.

It was a no brainer for him.

He's back in Thailand now.....

:D

[tfc]

I think it's a positive thing to read the compassion that people have had on this thread regardless of whether others think that it is "too little too late" or that "people didn't give a dam_n when he was alive." Sure sometimes it takes things like this to happen to bring out some heart and compassion but bringing out compassion after the event is still far far better than having someone die, having a heart heart and really not giving a dam_n at all. There have been a lot of people and things that I've only appreciated once they've been gone but having had those regrets I've learned not to make them again. So it's not too little too late - because for people who felt some compassion at hearing of this man's demise or hearing of his state of mind leading up to it they might be in a position next time to help someone through their action or word because of that very compassion that they're feeling now.

[JPPR2]

There are endless options for people to find their way out of the "Darkside" but most chose not to take action and let it consume them. There is a huge difference between a "Rescuer" and an "Enabler"

Really?? Please enlighten us?? And not with conjecture, supposition or theory please, only factually proven tried and true services available....

1) Therapy

2) Hostiles

3) Hospitals

4) Soup kitchens

5) Reaching out to friends

6) Reaching out to family

7) Work

8) Volunteering

9) Meds

In the end the long standing quote still exists, "Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem". It is a "Choice". He controlled the outcome and always did. Again so we are clear I am not saying he did anything wrong, that is not for me to judge. However he made a choice. I am saddened that he did not in last gasp attempt reach out to someone, but I speculate....Maybe he did.

[Treborz]

Are you joking? Half the losers on here will be requesting a free plane ticket home for Xmas.

Agreed.

I know guys on full benefits in UK that come out to Thailand 3 times a year, one has even bought some land and has built a house in Isaan, this is a guy that has never done a days work and paid tax in his life, he's been on benefits all of his working life.

This same guy has a friend that has done the same thing, of course they work also, but its cash in hand, no tax, and everything is paid by the UK government, including his house !!

One guy I know is on full benefits in UK and makes on average 700 to 800 Pounds a week selling on ebay, he spends months at a time in Pattaya living the good life and even has people paying to stay in the Flat that he has been given by and paid for by the UK Government in London.

Suicidals from Uk should really stop and think, if you arrive back in the UK with nothing, you'll have minor problems, so arrive back with nothing and get arrested for anything that will get you prison time, Air Rage for example is a tried and trusted offence for the skint UK guy wanting some quick benefits when he arrives back in UK.

Air Rage is usually dealt with by a Magistrates court and a short custodial sentence is given, be careful though, make sure you do enough to get a short prison sentence, but not enough to get a real problem. If it goes to Crown court you could be in for a longer sentence than you bargained for, so get it dealt with as soon as you can by pleading guilty at magistrates court.

All of the supposed debts mean nothing, you will never have to pay them, you just wont be able to open a bank account and get credit cards, although you will be able to open an account, I mean, you have to have your Social Security payments paid into an account don't you ?

Don't suicide guys, just get back home and get put back in the system.

Do the right thing then and report them. People like that make me sick.

[MAJIC]

It's very sad when we read of fellow farangs who fall on hard times and find the only way out is suicide.

It seems that most of their Embassies have little or nothing organised to help them,get back to their own Countries.

On a practical note,why not have the Traveller prove their means of getting back should they become destitute,at the Visa stage (especially any short term Visas )

This could take the form of a Legal Affidavit,taken by family members or close friends,that should the worst happen to the Traveller,then they would provide the necessary funds to at the very least, to Repatriate Him/Her.

Or some kind of Financial Deposit held with a Lawyer or Solicitor in the country of origin. To be released in such emergencies, as necessary.

After all, most Migrants to Thailand,arrive with enough finances to keep themselves in Thailand for many years or permanently,so an emergency, upfront,initial ,holding payment would not be missed by them,should plans go wrong? (enough said)

Thailand has been trying to attract Quality Tourists (rich) for years,but dont mind admitting the less affluent,who are most likely to go broke.

Just a thought,or two,to maybe, be improved on? by other Tv Members with ideas?

Edited November 9, 2010 by MAJIC

[blyish]

I actually believe that the American Embassy will help with an ""Emergency Loan" that can only be used to get back to USA... not cash.

I believe it because it was told to be by a Embassy Officer. granted, this was only mentioned in passing. We were just having a social conversation about what the embassy can and can not do.

I understand that this is a loan and must be paid back and that if not paid back uncle Sam will garnish your wages. I also remember her mentioning that there were safeguards to ensure that you could only use the money to travel back to the USA and that you would not be allowed to leave the country or get a passport again until the money was paid back to the government.

It's true. They'll take your passport until the loan is paid off.

[Beetlejuice]

I go along with every word that sillyman99 has quoted, right in the nutshell.

And as I have quoted here in the past, IT`S EASY TO LIVE IN THAILAND BUT ALSO EASY TO DIE HERE TOO.

Fall flat on your face in Thailand, no one`s going to pick you up, not your embassies, not your so called fellow ex-pat drinking buddies, not your girlfriend`s/wife`s ever loving caring family and probably not your friends or family in the home country who will let you down when it comes to the crunch.

Make sure you plan well ahead if deciding to move to Thailand and my deepest, deepest sympathies to those who fell down in despair and could see no light at the end of the tunnel.

Edited November 10, 2010 by Beetlejuice

[GM1955]

I hope the fellow is at peace with himself now. :jap:

He's dead.

He's not at anything with himself now, just dead.

Is an ant that you squash at peace with itself ?

Is the pig that was slaughtered so you can have a bacon sandwich at peace with itself ?

Sorry mate, but death is exactly that, death, there is no eternal anything, just death, no heaven or hel_l, no peace or torment, just nothingness.

I know, I was once dead myself.

[GM1955]

In that case you should spend some time trying to teach those who are trying to blow us all up, including themselves as they are going somewhere special once they are in pieces.

They're going nowhere, they are just dead, as are their victims.

Humans come up with these ridiculous notions of an afterlife as a way to conquer death, it's like " Don't worry, when you die you'll go to a better place " the fact is that they'll be going nowhere, they're dead.

Does an ant have an afterlife ? Sounds silly doesn't it, it sounds silly when we suggest that any other creature on earth has an afterlife, yet acceptable when we are considering Humans, or even our pet dogs and cats.

I guess it just makes death easier to deal with for some.

We celebrate a birth and cry at a death, yet the birth will lead to death, so why celebrate ?

I can't wait to die again.

[WarpSpeed]

There are endless options for people to find their way out of the "Darkside" but most chose not to take action and let it consume them. There is a huge difference between a "Rescuer" and an "Enabler"

Really?? Please enlighten us?? And not with conjecture, supposition or theory please, only factually proven tried and true services available....

1) Therapy

2) Hostiles

3) Hospitals

4) Soup kitchens

5) Reaching out to friends

6) Reaching out to family

7) Work

8) Volunteering

9) Meds

In the end the long standing quote still exists, "Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem". It is a "Choice". He controlled the outcome and always did. Again so we are clear I am not saying he did anything wrong, that is not for me to judge. However he made a choice. I am saddened that he did not in last gasp attempt reach out to someone, but I speculate....Maybe he did.

Like I said no supposition or conjecture only facts, have you actually consulted any of these supposed services offerings for a farang in Thailand?? Because I can personally assure you most of these are not available and you're supposing and presuming that a given individual has "friends" or "family" and that's a huge ass/umption on your part...

[WarpSpeed]

In that case you should spend some time trying to teach those who are trying to blow us all up, including themselves as they are going somewhere special once they are in pieces.

They're going nowhere, they are just dead, as are their victims.

Humans come up with these ridiculous notions of an afterlife as a way to conquer death, it's like " Don't worry, when you die you'll go to a better place " the fact is that they'll be going nowhere, they're dead.

Does an ant have an afterlife ? Sounds silly doesn't it, it sounds silly when we suggest that any other creature on earth has an afterlife, yet acceptable when we are considering Humans, or even our pet dogs and cats.

I guess it just makes death easier to deal with for some.

We celebrate a birth and cry at a death, yet the birth will lead to death, so why celebrate ?

I can't wait to die again.

If you're going "nowhere" when you die and you claim you've died once before "so you know" then you consider being here again going nowhere then???

[Forethat]

I get a bitter taste in my mouth when I hear about something like this. Mainly because there's a lot of pain involved when someone makes this decision.

Eric Steel has made a documentary about suicides, and in this documentary he compares the people who makes the leap from the bridge with people who jumped off WTC when it was on fire; according to Eric the pain is what is causing people to jump, in the WTC case the heat was melting the skin on the people; jumping was a better solution. In the case of the persons jumping off the golden gate it was a different pain, but probably seen as a better solution.

This is what is so disturbing with people who commit suicide; they leave in agony. Hopefully this guy gets a better life next time. I hope life can offer something better than whatever you had this time.

R.I.P

[thaihome]

The OP was well known around the Soi 4/2 area. Several regulars and bar owners helped him out witha a bit of cash or a meal from time to time.

It is sad to see someone down on their luck like that. Few doubted there was some mental illness involved. Thailand is certainly not the place to be if you have those sort of issues. But being in the US probably would not have changed the outcome.

TH

[doggie888888]

I get a bitter taste in my mouth when I hear about something like this. Mainly because there's a lot of pain involved when someone makes this decision.

Eric Steel has made a documentary about suicides, and in this documentary he compares the people who makes the leap from the bridge with people who jumped off WTC when it was on fire; according to Eric the pain is what is causing people to jump, in the WTC case the heat was melting the skin on the people; jumping was a better solution. In the case of the persons jumping off the golden gate it was a different pain, but probably seen as a better solution.

This is what is so disturbing with people who commit suicide; they leave in agony. Hopefully this guy gets a better life next time. I hope life can offer something better than whatever you had this time.

R.I.P

Not all people who commit suicide "leave in agony"...there are humane ways to do it and unfortunately almost always illegal in many countries leaving many to opt for rather painful methods. For those rich enough and with their faculties intact, there are countries that allow "assisted suicide" which allow civilised people to exit (at their choice) in a dignified manner.

[sillyman99]

If you're going "nowhere" when you die and you claim you've died once before "so you know" then you consider being here again going nowhere then???

???

[Lumumba]

I once knew a Canadian English language teacher here, he had just two dress shirts, shared a room with a freelance prostitute in some obscure part of Bangkok, one day a neighbors T shirt fell and the wind blew it into their balcony, he acquired it. He never lasted at a job more than a few months, was always out drinking in front of a 7-Eleven, most bars or agogo places dont let him in. He did nt have visa in his passport.

But he was happy with himself and quite funny, always laughing and telling jokes, mostly of his situation. I always told him he would make a good spy or an undercover agent..

I knew him from a social website, when the group met, I always invite him as i would pick up his tab, so no one minded him being there.

One day he called me and said he was being held at police station, I asked him what did he do, he said it was just a misunderstanding that If I came i might be able to help resolve the situation.

I got there only to find out that he bear hugged a female student at his school and the girl's parents were all fangs and teeth, i gave him B500 and told him, mate you are on your own here.

He later called me to tell me his parents sent over 300G for his bail and that he will be unreachable for some time. That was 5 years ago, still have nt heard from him.

If Jeff had a problem 2000 would easily fix, I am sure he would have taken it, he probably had a lot more than that on his plate. Not that I am preaching, suicide is unchristian and not a solution to any problem one might have, its also quite a selfish act. think about family and friends and those who will feel guilt for life for not seeing the problem or helping.

RIP.

[Lumumba]

I get a bitter taste in my mouth when I hear about something like this. Mainly because there's a lot of pain involved when someone makes this decision.

Eric Steel has made a documentary about suicides, and in this documentary he compares the people who makes the leap from the bridge with people who jumped off WTC when it was on fire; according to Eric the pain is what is causing people to jump, in the WTC case the heat was melting the skin on the people; jumping was a better solution. In the case of the persons jumping off the golden gate it was a different pain, but probably seen as a better solution.

This is what is so disturbing with people who commit suicide; they leave in agony. Hopefully this guy gets a better life next time. I hope life can offer something better than whatever you had this time.

R.I.P

Not all people who commit suicide "leave in agony"...there are humane ways to do it and unfortunately almost always illegal in many countries leaving many to opt for rather painful methods. For those rich enough and with their faculties intact, there are countries that allow "assisted suicide" which allow civilised people to exit (at their choice) in a dignified manner.

Those countries will not let you be assisted in killing yourself, if you can still do 50 push ups or be able to participate in wine tasting events.

[WarpSpeed]

The OP was well known around the Soi 4/2 area. Several regulars and bar owners helped him out witha a bit of cash or a meal from time to time.

It is sad to see someone down on their luck like that. Few doubted there was some mental illness involved. Thailand is certainly not the place to be if you have those sort of issues. But being in the US probably would not have changed the outcome.

TH

Not to mention that his circumstances could have well manifested any mental illness he may have finally succumbed to, there is unmeasurable pressure and stress in such a situation one can only imagine if being there and every person handles that stress and pressure differently we are not mindless automatons..

[sillyman99]

Strange how this mans death has bought out the concern and care from people who would have done everything possible to avoid the same man when he was alive.

Edited November 10, 2010 by sillyman99

[WarpSpeed]

I get a bitter taste in my mouth when I hear about something like this. Mainly because there's a lot of pain involved when someone makes this decision.

Eric Steel has made a documentary about suicides, and in this documentary he compares the people who makes the leap from the bridge with people who jumped off WTC when it was on fire; according to Eric the pain is what is causing people to jump, in the WTC case the heat was melting the skin on the people; jumping was a better solution. In the case of the persons jumping off the golden gate it was a different pain, but probably seen as a better solution.

This is what is so disturbing with people who commit suicide; they leave in agony. Hopefully this guy gets a better life next time. I hope life can offer something better than whatever you had this time.

R.I.P

Not all people who commit suicide "leave in agony"...there are humane ways to do it and unfortunately almost always illegal in many countries leaving many to opt for rather painful methods. For those rich enough and with their faculties intact, there are countries that allow "assisted suicide" which allow civilised people to exit (at their choice) in a dignified manner.

Agony is measured in different ways then just a physical pain you know? I think Forethat was more referring to the metal anguish they suffered prior but I could be wrong..It's fair to say that the preponderance of suicide victims who are aware go in some agony of some degree. It's only oblivious victims such as the "Heaven's Gate" mass suicides in California or a Muslim radical who's been brain washed into thinking there's 72 virgins waiting for them for example and so feel no mental anguish through their oblivious nature..

Edited November 10, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

If Jeff had a problem 2000 would easily fix, I am sure he would have taken it, he probably had a lot more than that on his plate. Not that I am preaching, suicide is unchristian and not a solution to any problem one might have, its also quite a selfish act. think about family and friends and those who will feel guilt for life for not seeing the problem or helping.

RIP.

Maybe he wasn't religious and on the contrary it's his family and friends who were seemingly the selfish ones and who weren't thinking about him again assuming he even had any.. They should feel plenty of guilt about their inaction...

[Forethat]

Strange how this mans death has bought out the concern and care from people who would have done everything possible to avoid the same man when he was alive.

Even though this might not be true in every case, I can bet a bottle of Singha that it applies to many.

Mindful words.

[Loz]

I went to the Pattaya Consulate Office in Pattaya yesterday, ( It's closed till the 20th I discovered ), there was a gaunt looking man sitting outside the closed door, looked liked he was homeless, he told me he was waiting for a friend, but he was homeless I'm sure. Plastic bags with belongings etc.

Many Farangs come to Thailand after completely screwing everything up in their own countries, Credit Cards maxed out, Bank loans etc etc, screwing up relationships with Family and Friends and employers to live the Dream, then it all goes tits up and the dream becomes a nightmare.

Many people seem surprised that so many Farangs commit suicide in Thailand, personally, I'm surprised there's so few.

Ur not silly anymore.. You make too much sense

[rixalex]

The OP was well known around the Soi 4/2 area. Several regulars and bar owners helped him out witha a bit of cash or a meal from time to time.

It is sad to see someone down on their luck like that. Few doubted there was some mental illness involved. Thailand is certainly not the place to be if you have those sort of issues. But being in the US probably would not have changed the outcome.

TH

I'm guessing that the OP and Jeff are not one and the same - unless Jeff came back from the dead to make a posting on Thaivisa about himself.

RIP to the man in question.

[tim armstrong]

Nobody gives a hoot about these people when they're alive, but suddenly everybody is concerned when they're dead.

Yep, truer words were never spoken....I might add though instead of "concerned" when they're dead I'd use the term suddenly compassionate...

I'd even go a step further and say that if he had for example come on here and sought out help I can just imagine the lambasting he'd a gotten about his being a loser, tosser in life etc. he'd just have off'd himself a bit sooner is all ...

If he was living rough for three years I wonder how the BIB never picked him up or imigration ?

What benefit would there be in that for the police or immigration. The man in question; RIP, clearly had no means in which to be taken advantage of.

Additionally: I don't believe it is the responsibility of the the British Embassy to hand out money to those in need. The Embassy is not a charity.

I think many of us believe the Embassies are there for us, they are not. They exist for our Governments and Countries, they exist to generate trade by diplomatic means and as an add on they are there to provide some small measure of assistance without interfering with local law. It seems too many of us these days have expectations of our embassies beyond reasonable measures.

Yes, unfortunately, some people do fall by the wayside and that is terrible. But we should all be responsible for ourselves and when that fails there is 'usually' a social security network in place for us in our home countries.

More could and always should be done but the sad story is that if the British Embassies around the world did have a system in place to support its 'fallen subjects' there would be many who take advantage of such a system and it would fail all too quickly. The very same folk who are requesting such systems would then be the first to criticize. The means for a flight home (as a loan) is more than enough.

I don't think its quite true that embassies are not there for us. If you read the inside cover of your passport (if you are from Oz) it specifically states that they are there to assist you. I imagine other countries have some similar wording. But probably they have a legal loophole that stops lawsuits. I think its worthwhile to find out about the staff at your embassy and how their system works- not always easy. At Oz embassies if you ask to see the senior embassy counsellor, you usually get a better result, and bypass all the bureaucratic nonsense at the front counter.

[thaihome]

The OP was well known around the Soi 4/2 area. Several regulars and bar owners helped him out witha a bit of cash or a meal from time to time.

It is sad to see someone down on their luck like that. Few doubted there was some mental illness involved. Thailand is certainly not the place to be if you have those sort of issues. But being in the US probably would not have changed the outcome.

TH

I'm guessing that the OP and Jeff are not one and the same - unless Jeff came back from the dead to make a posting on Thaivisa about himself.

RIP to the man in question.

Was referring to the Original Post, not the Original Poster. Glad you have so much to contribute to this discussion.

TH

[rixalex]

The OP was well known around the Soi 4/2 area. Several regulars and bar owners helped him out witha a bit of cash or a meal from time to time.

It is sad to see someone down on their luck like that. Few doubted there was some mental illness involved. Thailand is certainly not the place to be if you have those sort of issues. But being in the US probably would not have changed the outcome.

TH

I'm guessing that the OP and Jeff are not one and the same - unless Jeff came back from the dead to make a posting on Thaivisa about himself.

RIP to the man in question.

Was referring to the Original Post, not the Original Poster. Glad you have so much to contribute to this discussion.

TH

Either way, makes little sense. But not to worry. I understood what you meant. Didn't expect my light-hearted comment to be taken seriously.

It is a terribly sad business, but at the end of the day, he did have a choice. Murder victims and the terminally ill don't. Doesn't mean i have no sympathy for him, just that i have more for others.

[draggons]

Maybe the poor guy was just at the end of his tether and just couldn't be bothered with the pain, emotional anguish or whatever and made the desision to jump. End ex.

As for always having enough to get you back to your country of origin, quite agree but sometimes circumstances dictate otherwise and all your eggs are in the one basket.

Thai girlfriends/wife, her family, your (drinking) mates won't help you out?. They will if you have the right wife and the true friends.

I sunk everything I had into my business and nearly made it but nearly isn't good enough and ended up without a penny (not a bar by the way). Mrs (Thai) sold all her gold and borrowed money from relatives to keep us going and a friend lent us a substantial amount, no questions asked other than my word I'd repay it. It all kept us going untill I got back on the tools working.

The situation could quite easily gone the other way and I may have been someone standing on the edge and taking that last step.

Unless there's a mental problem then for sure there's always someone to turn to.

R.I.P Fred