Khun Vs Ter

[Jeddah Jo]

Can anyone explain in English the subtle differences between the use of Khun and Ter between two people that are very close.

I have spoken to a number of people and all of them said Ter might be used between adolescent lovers while Khun should be used when you have achieved Poo-Yai status. i.e Phom rak khun and not Phom rak ter.

However, the other day I head a middle aged couple chatting with each other and the woman often referred to her husband as Ter or y-Ter.

To complicate the situation, on the Stickman site the other day a Thai Look Krueng was saying only Ter should be used between genuine lovers and Khun was more likely to signify a slightly different type of arrangement? Can anyone confirm the veracity of that?

JJ.

[BambinA]

for me Khun and Ter ..can use for lover both

Khun - sound formal....maybe yes ..but it sort of respect too

Ter - maybe sound close and familiar ..

BUT..if i had Hubby , and i have to choose I'd call him "khun"

[StateSix]

If you are going to use ter to your gf though, it is better to say chan rak ter, rather than pom rak ter, I believe. Pom with kun and chan with ter, as the first is slightly more formal and second is more intimate.

However my Thai is far from ideal so I may be wrong.

[BambinA]

If you are going to use ter to your gf though, it is better to say chan rak ter, rather than pom rak ter, I believe.  Pom with kun and chan with ter, as the first is slightly more formal and second is more intimate. 

However my Thai is far from ideal so I may be wrong.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Neeranam]

In all the years I have known my wife, she has never 'ter' when talking with me.

I have only ever heard it used with youngsters(teenagers) or in songs.

[Johpa]

I have never overheard, not that such a sentiment would casually be expressed where it cold easily be overheard, a Thai tell another Thai "phom rak khun." I have heard plenty of Farangs in bars use the phrase to express their dementia. But I have always felt it to be a sign that this was a relationship that was going nowhere other than into the bank account of the lass. From what I have overheard, and form the countless pop love songs that my wife listens and sings to on her karaoke machine, it is always "chan rak ter."

[Neeranam]

I have never overheard, not that such a sentiment would casually be expressed where it cold easily be overheard, a Thai tell another Thai "phom rak khun." I have heard plenty of Farangs in bars use the phrase to express their dementia. But I have always felt it to be a sign that this was a relationship that was going nowhere other than into the bank account of the lass. From what I have overheard, and form the countless pop love songs that my wife listens and sings to on her karaoke machine, it is always "chan rak ter."

Just ask some Thai people what they say to their partners and you will find out the answer. If you spend all your time in 'bars' though, maybe the Thais there don't speak the language very well

[meadish_sweetball]

Johpa spends his time out in the sticks, with the seua maw hom's and hicks.

[Mr. Farang]

The more honorific "Khun" is not required when talking to someone you are close to privately. In public with your loved one, "Khun" might be appreciated, depending on the circumstance and the relationship to the other people.

In general, you are better off, when in doubt, in my opinion, to speak Thai more formally if you do not speak Thai well - in public. In private between someone you are close to, it depends on the discussion - but in general, I have never had a sweet Thai girl during "pillow talk" demand I call her "Ter" instead of "Khun" :-)

In bars, the same is true. I have never known a girl working for a living in a bar to complain that she was referred to as "Khun", in fact, I would guess she would find it charming and react, in a personal level, appropriately charmed.

I learned to speak Thai by learning the alphebet tones first, in a Thai temple, so I speak very different than someone who learned to speak Thai in a bar or "on the streets" or "from their girlfriend". Every Thai person who comes in contact with me immediate recognizes that my Thai was not learned "in bars" or "on the street" or "from their GF in daily life" and they say my Thai sounds like music to their ears, and makes them very happy.

I often hear Thai spoken from farangs who learned to speak Thai "on the streets" or "in bars" or "from their GF in daily life" and I can immediately recognize it - and it does not sound like "music to my ear" , and Thais also recognize the difference.

So, to the original post, you can never go wrong talking very politely in Thailand, even in intimate relationships - and honoring people with "more polite speech" even in love, will not hurt you in any way and only bring you good things.

[JuniorExPat]

I learned to speak Thai by learning the alphebet tones first, in a Thai temple, so I speak very different than someone who learned to speak Thai in a bar or "on the streets" or "from their girlfriend".  Every Thai person who comes in contact with me immediate recognizes that my Thai was not learned "in bars" or "on the street" or "from their GF in daily life" and they say my Thai sounds like music to their ears, and makes them very happy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nice post Mr Farang.

Could you share some details of the Thai temple education - part of retreat, something available at most temples, a special course . . . ?

Thanks

JxP

[Mr. Farang]

Nice post Mr Farang.

Could you share some details of the Thai temple education - part of retreat, something available at most temples, a special course . . . ?

Thanks

JxP

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dear JxP,

The options available for Thai language studies depend on where you may be situated. My original Thai language classes were designed for Thai children living in the US, so essentially, I learned the basics of Thai language by attending "Thai Kindergarden" for two years - managed by Monks (and the "Temple laypersons" management team) in a major Thai temple in the US (this may not be the ideal situation for others, btw).

In Thailand, this type of education is, more-than-likely, not available because this level of class would be taught at schools v. temples. I am sure there are many excellent ways for people living in Thailand to learn Thai basics! I would not recommend the study Thai language at a "meditation retreat" as meditation studies are very different than language studies.

If you are in the US, the UK, or other countries outside of Thailand, your only option may be to study, as do Thai children, in Thai temples. For example, in the US it is very difficult to find a formal class to learn Thai property. This availability of this option depends on the management of the temple, the needs of the Thai laypeople, etc.

You may also request instruction directly from the Sangha, as their primary responsibility in the temples, beside the direct day-to-day practice of Theravada Buddhism, normally is to teach subjects that benefit both Thailand, Thai society, and Thai Buddhism.

In closing, the study of Thai language is one of the most rewarding experiences I have ever had. I cannot imagine living in Thailand without formal training in Thai, nor more than I can imagine living in the UK or the US without formal English language training. One will not get very far in the US or Europe as a Thai speaker speaking only Thai. The same holds true in Thailand - it is just the Thais are more tolerant of a lack of language skills. Tolerance does not translate to respect or admiration, BTW - it is simply tolerance (and wonderful trait of most Thais which is charming and warms the culture so well.) In Thailand, well Thai speaking Farangs have a kind of "special status" and it is an honor and a priv' to be held in such high regard by Thais, even when my Thai skills are not close to native fluency.

One of my dreams is to speak, very well with near native fluency, the Northern Thai language! I do not know of one farang who can speak, with near native fluency, Northern Thai language. I hope to meet one someday!!!

Yours sincerely,

Mr. Farang

Edited August 23, 2005 by Mr. Farang

[meadish_sweetball]

There are a few farang who can speak Northern Thai with near-native fluency. My friend who works at an optician says she has met about 5 so far, over the two years she has worked there. If you want to learn Northern Thai, AUA Chiang Mai give introduction classes.

[Dradam]

I asked this same question at a Thai wedding that I attended. The groom told the bride "Phom rak Khun". As they were obviously very close and intimately related I expected the phrase "Chan rak ter". In songs, you will only ever hear "chan rak ter". No song ever uses the phrase "phom rak khun".

The answer that I was given was that "chan rak ter" is used between adolescents. Adults will generally use the words "phom" and "khun" even though they are familiar with each other. This is especially true in public.

In my life, I have had two Thai girlfriends. One was many years ago in the USA and the other is now my wife. The girlfriend in the USA always insisted on using "chan" and "ter". She was well-educated but was still as much a teenager as an adult (she was about 25 years old at the time) My wife generally uses 3rd person when speaking to me so rarely uses either. She generally will say "I love you" in English more than Thai in fact (or occasionally in Mandarin as she is fluent in that language as well). We will mostly converse in Thai though.

I have heard many people say that "Phom" is more masculine than "chan" and that kratoey will tend to use "chan" much more frequently.

I would say though that in a bar, it probably doesn't matter which word that you choose. The same can be said of two people in private. In public speaking, it would probably be more appropriate to use "Phom" however.

[JuniorExPat]

Nice post Mr Farang.

Could you share some details of the Thai temple education - part of retreat, something available at most temples, a special course . . . ?

Thanks

JxP

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dear JxP,

The options available for Thai language studies depend on where you may be situated. My original Thai language classes were designed for Thai children living in the US, so essentially, I learned the basics of Thai language by attending "Thai Kindergarden" for two years - managed by Monks (and the "Temple laypersons" management team) in a major Thai temple in the US (this may not be the ideal situation for others, btw).

In Thailand, this type of education is, more-than-likely, not available because this level of class would be taught at schools v. temples. I am sure there are many excellent ways for people living in Thailand to learn Thai basics! I would not recommend the study Thai language at a "meditation retreat" as meditation studies are very different than language studies.

If you are in the US, the UK, or other countries outside of Thailand, your only option may be to study, as do Thai children, in Thai temples. For example, in the US it is very difficult to find a formal class to learn Thai property. This availability of this option depends on the management of the temple, the needs of the Thai laypeople, etc.

You may also request instruction directly from the Sangha, as their primary responsibility in the temples, beside the direct day-to-day practice of Theravada Buddhism, normally is to teach subjects that benefit both Thailand, Thai society, and Thai Buddhism.

In closing, the study of Thai language is one of the most rewarding experiences I have ever had. I cannot imagine living in Thailand without formal training in Thai, nor more than I can imagine living in the UK or the US without formal English language training. One will not get very far in the US or Europe as a Thai speaker speaking only Thai. The same holds true in Thailand - it is just the Thais are more tolerant of a lack of language skills. Tolerance does not translate to respect or admiration, BTW - it is simply tolerance (and wonderful trait of most Thais which is charming and warms the culture so well.) In Thailand, well Thai speaking Farangs have a kind of "special status" and it is an honor and a priv' to be held in such high regard by Thais, even when my Thai skills are not close to native fluency.

One of my dreams is to speak, very well with near native fluency, the Northern Thai language! I do not know of one farang who can speak, with near native fluency, Northern Thai language. I hope to meet one someday!!!

Yours sincerely,

Mr. Farang

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for the interesting post again Mr Farang.

If you find yourself in Chiang Mai make contact with me and I will introduce you to a young Brit who struggles to get by in Bangkok but actually speaks fluent northern Thai!

JxP

[sabaijai]

In my experience, Thai intimates tend to address each other using neither khun คุณ nor thoe ('ter') เธอ, but rather kinship terms such a phee พี่, nawng น้อง, etc. When my wife says she loves me, it is always "nawng Nee [her name] rak phee Suk [my name, short for Suksawat]", and in most other situations she just calls me phee พี่.

[Johpa]

Johpa spends his time out in the sticks, with the seua maw hom's and hicks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is true that most of my time in Thailand is spent with the Thai hillbillys who often do not speak Central Thai and often speak Kham Muang with an accent and their slang comes from their grandfather's languages like K'mu and Karen. So my experience may be a bit out of the ordinary which can cause some lapses in my knowledge of proper Thai. I became embarassingly aware of this once when a rather friend from Bangkok once used the formal verb "raaprathaan" and I was at a loss to understand the word as I had not encountered it since my college Thai course years before.

And I apologize if I led some to think that I myself spend an inordinate amount of time in the bars or that I learned Thai in the bars. As Mr. Svenske points out, I spend most of my time in Thailand dressed in a manner entirely inappropriate for the city.

[meadish_sweetball]

Your special perspective is why we appreciate your input Johpa. Keep posting.

[fxm88]

If you are going to use ter to your gf though, it is better to say chan rak ter, rather than pom rak ter, I believe.  Pom with kun and chan with ter, as the first is slightly more formal and second is more intimate. 

However my Thai is far from ideal so I may be wrong.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Correct! But if you are going to use mung for your gf, it is better the say goo rak mung. I believe. And don't forget to duck.