Environment Report Paints Bleak Picture For Thailand

[KevinB]

By the way one comment did strike me as something worth getting some more information on - from those that know!

Where does Bangkok's rubbish go?

[inmysights]

This article does not surprise me at all. I for the life of me cannot figure out why the Thai are so oblivious to the burning of toxic plastics, chemicals and trash, and even how common and acceptable it is to litter! I see businesses here that take all their plastic wrappings for the aluminum building materials jsut to mention one the really urks me, and pile them outside in a concrete pit and burn it on a regular basis. They pick up my trash on the soi I live on about 3 times a week, is there an extra charge for businesses that they justify burning it instead? As far as polluting the land with chemicals, I'm not surprised. More is better here. More salt, more sugar, more MSG, more volume blasting music or advertising at the markets, more in your face advertising on Thai TV shows, and certainly more chemicals on the plants must be better than less as well. Granted for some reason there just doesn't seem to be many trash receptacles around, certainly not around bus stops or piers, but still no excuse to just toss it in the river or along the side of the street.

What really bothers me is the disrespect. The way I look at it is, this is the Kingdom of Thailand. The land, rivers, air and everything within the disputable borders belongs to His Majesty. How dare anyone disrespect His Majesty by trashing what is rightfully his. If someone threw trash in your house or burnt a styrofoam bowl in your house I think that would be disrespectful.

Make littering against the law, make burning trash against the law, make law enforcement accountable for not enforcing the law. I honestly don't think it's against the law to trash the Kingdom unless you're a foreigner.

Do you think the burning of potentially toxic waste is part of Whities' DNA? No, it was a long and arduous government media campaign educating their populace. When's the last time you saw an 'anti litter' ad on Thai tv. The blame for all this should be laid fairly and squarely where it belongs, at the feet of whatever silly self-obsessed party is in power at any given time. The words 'dereliction of duty towards stewardship by the citizenship's government of their own country' spring to mind. And not the rest of you obsequious waffle ...

[moskito]

Is there such a word/phrase in the Thai language as Environmental Concerns? Why am I not suprised about this report.

I bet there isnt

Asians are the worst polluters of natural enviroment on earth due lack of education. Its a little bit like 50 years ago in western countries, when ppl throw everything away and changed engine oil

in the forests. Only education can help here but this government is not intrested at all to educate its citizens and specially not here in Thailand!

When all the tourists finally learn that they swim in their own sh1t and garbage, lots of them will never come again. Same happend in Spain end of 70s

[ableguy]

Is there such a word/phrase in the Thai language as Environmental Concerns? Why am I not suprised about this report.

rural thai- every street is a tip, countryside is used as a tip, local people try to burn bottles and tins with the rubbish, thinking it will-burn. school education, enforce the law on sugarcane burning, black bits falling from the sky, we call it black snow, again police nowhere-no patrols, not care, dog sh--t everywhere. Kids throwing plastic out of cars-learn from mum. unclean houses and kitchens-outside most houses are like gypsy camps. This is a disaster--Bkk-canals--under the noses of the mayor and officials. Food markets stink, no health checks on sellers. all rivers polluted-so the fish for sale are full of poison. this is last years report-and the years before. No one is doing their job properly-goverment departments are using money allocated on other money making contracts. I live in a rural village, if anyone dissbelieves me then he has blinkers on. It is serious, but like everything reports and a news splash and its forgot. Sustainable-was a word we used in helping other countries-AID- if it wasn't no money was forwarded. This government should follow -sustainable.

We need a crack down on these people. problem solved in four weeks.

[ableguy]

By the way one comment did strike me as something worth getting some more information on - from those that know!

Where does Bangkok's rubbish go?

Nana and Soy Cowboy.

[reason1]

UK Pollution in the 50's from coal burning was so bad that the colour of all the buildings in industrial cities was changed to black and the air was a yellow haze everything got dirty when it rained rivers were choked with rubbish. There is a price to pay for a clean up as well as education, can Thailand afford it yet? The Saviour for the UK was North Sea gas

[jimbeam1]

By the way one comment did strike me as something worth getting some more information on - from those that know!

Where does Bangkok's rubbish go?

I don't know where it is, but I did see a programe on telly, where people (I think Burmeese) were sifting through the rubbish, mainly for scraps of food as the Thais had already taken the glass and plastic, for recycling. But that was only one tip. Maybe they do the same as the USA take it down the river in barges, I hope to disposal plants?

jb1

[jimbeam1]

By the way one comment did strike me as something worth getting some more information on - from those that know!

Where does Bangkok's rubbish go?

Nana and Soy Cowboy.

Yes, yes, yes very good I like that one

jb1 :

[moskito]

UK Pollution in the 50's from coal burning was so bad that the colour of all the buildings in industrial cities was changed to black and the air was a yellow haze everything got dirty when it rained rivers were choked with rubbish. There is a price to pay for a clean up as well as education, can Thailand afford it yet? The Saviour for the UK was North Sea gas

the saviour was not only the gas! It was people start to complain about serious health problems, thats why they searched for another energy source like coal....same happend in western parts of germany where copper, steel and coalfactories made the houses red or black. It has something to do with education in our countries. In Thailand they just give a sh1t, what they cant see doesnt concern them. Thais are not just ignorant, they are the perfect egoists too.

[Nisa]

UK Pollution in the 50's from coal burning was so bad that the colour of all the buildings in industrial cities was changed to black and the air was a yellow haze everything got dirty when it rained rivers were choked with rubbish. There is a price to pay for a clean up as well as education, can Thailand afford it yet? The Saviour for the UK was North Sea gas

That pollution did create some nice sunsets.

[MJP]

UK Pollution in the 50's from coal burning was so bad that the colour of all the buildings in industrial cities was changed to black and the air was a yellow haze everything got dirty when it rained rivers were choked with rubbish. There is a price to pay for a clean up as well as education, can Thailand afford it yet? The Saviour for the UK was North Sea gas

the saviour was not only the gas! It was people start to complain about serious health problems, thats why they searched for another energy source like coal....same happend in western parts of germany where copper, steel and coalfactories made the houses red or black. It has something to do with education in our countries. In Thailand they just give a sh1t, what they cant see doesnt concern them. Thais are not just ignorant, they are the perfect egoists too.

How do you explain motorcycle emissions regs here? Probably the tightest in the world. Or the Pollution Control Zones, again with tight standards. Or the mangrove wetlands protection charities?

Or my neighbours covering their faces with impromptu masks when using solvents or exposed to dusts from sanding? Or so many Thai people being anti-smoking? Also watching their diets.

[tigermonkey]

By the way one comment did strike me as something worth getting some more information on - from those that know!

Where does Bangkok's rubbish go?

I don't know where it is, but I did see a programe on telly, where people (I think Burmeese) were sifting through the rubbish, mainly for scraps of food as the Thais had already taken the glass and plastic, for recycling. But that was only one tip. Maybe they do the same as the USA take it down the river in barges, I hope to disposal plants?

jb1

There was a report on this in 'that other newspaper' -- I can't quote the link here, but if you Google " Landfills falling out of favour with the BMA", you will get to the article.

[tigermonkey]

This article does not surprise me at all. I for the life of me cannot figure out why the Thai are so oblivious to the burning of toxic plastics, chemicals and trash, and even how common and acceptable it is to litter! I see businesses here that take all their plastic wrappings for the aluminum building materials jsut to mention one the really urks me, and pile them outside in a concrete pit and burn it on a regular basis. They pick up my trash on the soi I live on about 3 times a week, is there an extra charge for businesses that they justify burning it instead? As far as polluting the land with chemicals, I'm not surprised. More is better here. More salt, more sugar, more MSG, more volume blasting music or advertising at the markets, more in your face advertising on Thai TV shows, and certainly more chemicals on the plants must be better than less as well. Granted for some reason there just doesn't seem to be many trash receptacles around, certainly not around bus stops or piers, but still no excuse to just toss it in the river or along the side of the street.

What really bothers me is the disrespect. The way I look at it is, this is the Kingdom of Thailand. The land, rivers, air and everything within the disputable borders belongs to His Majesty. How dare anyone disrespect His Majesty by trashing what is rightfully his. If someone threw trash in your house or burnt a styrofoam bowl in your house I think that would be disrespectful.

Make littering against the law, make burning trash against the law, make law enforcement accountable for not enforcing the law. I honestly don't think it's against the law to trash the Kingdom unless you're a foreigner.

The BMA is not responsible for the collection and disposal of waste from industial soursces and construction - they do not pick it up !

Each company is responsible for disposing of its own waste -- hence the frequent burning of construction waste, and the pipes running from the factories into the klong.

[Nisa]

By the way one comment did strike me as something worth getting some more information on - from those that know!

Where does Bangkok's rubbish go?

I don't know where it is, but I did see a programe on telly, where people (I think Burmeese) were sifting through the rubbish, mainly for scraps of food as the Thais had already taken the glass and plastic, for recycling. But that was only one tip. Maybe they do the same as the USA take it down the river in barges, I hope to disposal plants?

jb1

There was a report on this in 'that other newspaper' -- I can't quote the link here, but if you Google " Landfills falling out of favour with the BMA", you will get to the article.

Thanks!

I am not up on all the environmental issues regarding landfills vs. burning but cannot understand how they think burning is better when countries all over the world are turning these landfills into parks, housing communities and golf courses once the land fill is filled. Aren't most environmentally concerned countries getting away from burning?

[Nisa]

Question for any Long Time BKK Residents ...

Is it true that BKK air used to be significantly worse than it is now? I have been told the city used to look like it was engulfed in a constant fog from all the pollution.

[Tanaka]

As per jinjag's post - the country is in so many place, pure filth, as are the cities and waterways. But this is again simply about education. Tell them what they are doing, show a small video presentation and then offer the solution and create some jobs by 'transfer' stations or properly run recycling plants or garbage dumps. It does not take much for the 'village heads' to sit and discuss - hell buy the bottle of whisky and make it open forum for an hour and have everyone put in their two cents worth! It will work and it does not take 'AID'. It takes common sense.

You still base your thinking on your western experience. There is no "common sense" here. Try explain the phraze to a thai. And as for your (good and straightforward) solution, do you really think they would listen? A farang shall come and tell thais how they shall run their country and villages? At best they will smile, nod and say "Yes, we know already". And when you leave they will say what I said in the previous sentence.

Some of them who have a working brain, might realize something has to be done. But they are not sure what. And admitting that would mean loss of face so it won't happen. But by then it will be beyond repair anyway. And then what? Society collapsing completely? I hope I am not here then.

[Nawtier]

Don't forget the holy rule in here....not allowed to shit can the people.

[MJP]

As per jinjag's post - the country is in so many place, pure filth, as are the cities and waterways. But this is again simply about education. Tell them what they are doing, show a small video presentation and then offer the solution and create some jobs by 'transfer' stations or properly run recycling plants or garbage dumps. It does not take much for the 'village heads' to sit and discuss - hell buy the bottle of whisky and make it open forum for an hour and have everyone put in their two cents worth! It will work and it does not take 'AID'. It takes common sense.

You still base your thinking on your western experience. There is no "common sense" here. Try explain the phraze to a thai. And as for your (good and straightforward) solution, do you really think they would listen? A farang shall come and tell thais how they shall run their country and villages? At best they will smile, nod and say "Yes, we know already". And when you leave they will say what I said in the previous sentence.

Some of them who have a working brain, might realize something has to be done. But they are not sure what. And admitting that would mean loss of face so it won't happen. But by then it will be beyond repair anyway. And then what? Society collapsing completely? I hope I am not here then.

Thing is, up here in this Issan village at least, it is 1000% better than it was even three years ago (I've been here near nine years). Waste collection, people wary of water consumption during pending drought, wary of exposure to hazardous substances, recycle as much as possible (well organised recycling, not involving government), big drop in alcohol consumption, real interest and activity in building nicer homes, growing gardens and best of all real interest in their kid's futures with those that can (barely) afford it sending their little ones to private schools . . . I mean it's really quite pleasant these days, well, compared to years ago when we were all sat around in mud, filth and mosquitoes, surrounded by violent drunks.

Attitudes have improved, less negativity (wasn't much to feel good about before), vastly reduced laziness and apathy.

There are still drunks about, but we're getting back to 'the village drunk' rather than 'the drunk village'.

I don't see a society in collapse at least not right here.

[ianh68]

...Even UHT milk has issues here.

Can some one give me a heads up on this? I switched to UHT because the fresh stuff goes off too quickly in this climate.

[ginjag]

Question for any Long Time BKK Residents ...

Is it true that BKK air used to be significantly worse than it is now? I have been told the city used to look like it was engulfed in a constant fog from all the pollution.

From my 30 years+ here, difficult, as many would look at it at the time of their hols-or visit, it is always difficult because of this part of the worlds monsoon season, A quick answer would be no, but it did at times look very hazy. the actual pollution is more bad, rivers waterways, but the populous has expanded, hence it's worsening state, there IS sure more rubbish than before thrown around, I will be honest if I say the peoples attitude has got more bad regarding this, I do find the people are NOT as proud as before. In my experience the greed has grown, and with it the never-mind attitude. The hostility to foreigners is now more bad than 30 years ago. Chiang Mai comes to mind, it is 10 times more polluted than the earlier days. Wouldn't you have thought it should have improved-like the west- but it's not learning, There is no-one to teach.

[MaiChai]

Recycling happens in Bangkok in a very odd way: the dump truck collects plastic bags of garbage. They then park up somewhere, rip all the plastic bags open and pick out all the recyclables. Why? Because they can make more money selling the recyclables.Its an odd system, but it works!

As another said I would love to know the garbage goes in Bangkok.

[MaiChai]

Question for any Long Time BKK Residents ...

Is it true that BKK air used to be significantly worse than it is now? I have been told the city used to look like it was engulfed in a constant fog from all the pollution.

You are right. 15 years ago it was like that. I remember it well. Banning 2 stroke bikes plus tougher emissions have given a cleaner Bangkok. Mind you not clean enough since outside gets coated with a black soot, the bottom of your feet become black if you walk the streets with flip flops, and the canals are black from the soot.

[jayjay0]

Enviromental cleaning/recycling is very "front end heavy" on investment.

Enviromental work offer little or no immediate financial return, it usuallt takes decades to even break even.

So now you will understand why no one cares.

Your absolutely wrong.

There are people who care Here in Chiang Mai we have recycling on a small scale but it is bigger than it was five years ago.

On a earlier post some one talked about a Thai delegation in the UK looking into there solutions. Another poster talked about a garbage collection in his village and now the village is clean.

At the moment the movement is small but it is there and growing. It will take years.(decades)

When I was back in the States, Washington there was signs posted saying this portion of the road is cleaned by such and such a organization. And you could see big plastic bags by the way side waiting for collection. And they have been at it for decades. And still have to patrol there roads. It is only in the last year my brother has been able to get rid of his trimings with out burning them or taking them to the dump.

Are you giving Thailand a chance or are you going to sit back on your self righteousness and say this is Thailand I expect more out of them.

Why just the other day I watched traffic for five minutes and no one threw out garbage, shall I say there is no littering in Thailand.

[Nisa]

Question for any Long Time BKK Residents ...

Is it true that BKK air used to be significantly worse than it is now? I have been told the city used to look like it was engulfed in a constant fog from all the pollution.

You are right. 15 years ago it was like that. I remember it well. Banning 2 stroke bikes plus tougher emissions have given a cleaner Bangkok. Mind you not clean enough since outside gets coated with a black soot, the bottom of your feet become black if you walk the streets with flip flops, and the canals are black from the soot.

Interesting you say 15-years ago as I was just doing some research and it seems Bangkok (and Thailand) have really come along way in this time.

From 1997 to 2007 Bangkok has seen a 47 percent decrease in the amount of harmful small dust particles in the air. The data (2007) showed the Thai capital's air quality comes within limits set by the US, and just slightly higher than standards in the European Union.

Bangkok/Thailand also beat the US by a year to completely banning Lead Gas in 1995. In addition they have taken numerous other steps in terms of pushing for use of compressed natural gas (far ahead of the US), Improving car emissions standards as well as numerous other things including the introduction and continued expansion of the subway and sky train lines.

Even other pollutions such as water has improved greatly. There are numerous stories on the internet showing Bangkok and/or Thailand as a success story when it comes to cleaning up the air and water.

In fact if you look up the world most polluted cities you can easily find the lists of "10 Most Polluted Cities" which include none in Thailand but 2 in China, 2 in Russia and 2 in India.

Thailand is the first to say they have got a long way to go but it seems clear they have also come a long way.

Edited January 15, 2011 by Nisa

[moskito]

Enviromental cleaning/recycling is very "front end heavy" on investment.

Enviromental work offer little or no immediate financial return, it usuallt takes decades to even break even.

So now you will understand why no one cares.

Oh, I think they care a lot in the meantime. Before they just throw the garbage somewhere at nightimes. NOW at least they digging a hole, throw everything like plastic, glas, household garbage and even a dog (watch the pic left side down) and after close it and sale it to a stupid farang for a couple of millions. Thats how things work in Phuket. There is a well for about 8 farang houses just 20m away from this lovely place and no one gives a <removed>, not even the Orbortor, absolutely normal in Rawai Phuket

Edited January 15, 2011 by moskito

[thaiedward]

As per jinjag's post - the country is in so many place, pure filth, as are the cities and waterways. But this is again simply about education. Tell them what they are doing, show a small video presentation and then offer the solution and create some jobs by 'transfer' stations or properly run recycling plants or garbage dumps. It does not take much for the 'village heads' to sit and discuss - hell buy the bottle of whisky and make it open forum for an hour and have everyone put in their two cents worth! It will work and it does not take 'AID'. It takes common sense.

Thank you for your post, AW. I agree, 1000%.

[jayjay0]

As per jinjag's post - the country is in so many place, pure filth, as are the cities and waterways. But this is again simply about education. Tell them what they are doing, show a small video presentation and then offer the solution and create some jobs by 'transfer' stations or properly run recycling plants or garbage dumps. It does not take much for the 'village heads' to sit and discuss - hell buy the bottle of whisky and make it open forum for an hour and have everyone put in their two cents worth! It will work and it does not take 'AID'. It takes common sense.

Thank you for your post, AW. I agree, 1000%.

Interesting idea this common sense thing.

What he was saying is the Western world had no common sense 50 years ago and it is only common sense to look at what they are doing now and change immediately. Doe's that mean have the Army ready to invade another country.:jap:

Wonder what they are going to say about us in 50 years?

[Northman061]

Enviromental cleaning/recycling is very "front end heavy" on investment.

Enviromental work offer little or no immediate financial return, it usuallt takes decades to even break even.

So now you will understand why no one cares.

Your absolutely wrong.

There are people who care Here in Chiang Mai we have recycling on a small scale but it is bigger than it was five years ago.

On a earlier post some one talked about a Thai delegation in the UK looking into there solutions. Another poster talked about a garbage collection in his village and now the village is clean.

At the moment the movement is small but it is there and growing. It will take years.(decades)

When I was back in the States, Washington there was signs posted saying this portion of the road is cleaned by such and such a organization. And you could see big plastic bags by the way side waiting for collection. And they have been at it for decades. And still have to patrol there roads. It is only in the last year my brother has been able to get rid of his trimings with out burning them or taking them to the dump.

Are you giving Thailand a chance or are you going to sit back on your self righteousness and say this is Thailand I expect more out of them.

Why just the other day I watched traffic for five minutes and no one threw out garbage, shall I say there is no littering in Thailand.

In my original post, I did not mean to say that "no one cares" per say, but more the "Powers that be" dont care, in as much as there is no City wide, regional or national recycling initiatives, recycling plants, cardboard repulpers, glass recycling etec etc. There are always good people and good organisations doing "their bit". I would simply like to see a national recycling policy backed by local recycling depots. :jap:

[c64]

It would help enormously in the fight against degradation of the environment if people not only recycled but cycled. Help the environment - travel by pogo stick - or hoop. In many ways it would improve the health of the Nation.

Have you ever seen a thai do anything remotely bearing any resemblance

to physical activity voluntarily B)B)B)B)B)B)

[Scully]

In the UK I lived near the biggest coal power stations in Europe pumping out more pollution and breathing it in more than I experience now, I live in Thailand I was unhappy with the burning of household rubbish however they have now provided the village with a refuge collection service, the plastic, metal etc is still sold to rubbish buyers.

The locals are often employed to burn the dry grass on the mountains this is to prevent forest fires so it's a matter of taking a gamble, is it better to have few small fires or one huge fire.

I live in a remote village and and am very happy that this sevice has been provided and "is"being used by most.

With China building a coal power station a day I sometimes think we really do have our priorities wrong and can understand why this is rightly or wrongly not a big priority in Thailand.