Annual angst about proposal to renew current April International Health Insurance Policy - new AA recommendation to replace with Regency for Expats Policy. What to Do?????

[dinga]

Huge frustration every year at this time as there's the decision to be made about what on earth to do with Health Insurance Policy (even more so as I'll be 70 at the time of next renewal).

 

I've been reasonably happy with April International for OP only coverage until now (albeit I've never made a claim)- with the exception of their annual fee increases.  This year the Premium is up by an astounding +18%   I'm fortunate to maintain medical coverage under the Thai Social Security arrangements by continuing to pay the some 500 baht in monthly subs  -  so guess it's a matter of time really before unaffordable costs force me to abandon an International Policy.    

 

I bleated to AA Brokers about that increase and they have come back with a recommendation to get a new Policy with Regency for Expats.  I had never heard of them but a very brief consultation with Prof Google has raised some red flags - incl;uding:

*  Trust Pilot 

*  Laws of Nevis (West Indies) are the applicable laws for the Policy.  [Nevis being a noted tax haven]

 

None of that stuff gives me confidence. 

 

Appreciate any information/experience with Regency and any suggestions about what alternative I should consider.

 

Thanks & best regards  

[topt]

26 minutes ago, dinga said:

Huge frustration every year at this time as there's the decision to be made about what on earth to do with Health Insurance Policy (even more so as I'll be 70 at the time of next renewal).

 

I've been reasonably happy with April International for OP only coverage until now (albeit I've never made a claim)- with the exception of their annual fee increases.  This year the Premium is up by an astounding +18%   I'm fortunate to maintain medical coverage under the Thai Social Security arrangements by continuing to pay the some 500 baht in monthly subs  -  so guess it's a matter of time really before unaffordable costs force me to abandon an International Policy.    

 

I bleated to AA Brokers about that increase and they have come back with a recommendation to get a new Policy with Regency for Expats.  I had never heard of them but a very brief consultation with Prof Google has raised some red flags - incl;uding:

*  Trust Pilot 

*  Laws of Nevis (West Indies) are the applicable laws for the Policy.  [Nevis being a noted tax haven]

 

None of that stuff gives me confidence. 

 

Appreciate any information/experience with Regency and any suggestions about what alternative I should consider.

 

Thanks & best regards  

You may want to have a read of these links if you haven't already - 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1301695-april-or-pacific-cross/

https://aseannow.com/topic/1306387-april-international-some-premium-increase-analysis/

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1305852-question-for-april-international-france-policyholders/

 

AA Insurance brokers in Thailand are now owned by Alliance Insurance who coincidentally also own Regency. Thai based brokers are not supposed to be selling International policies so the holding company set up AA World to offer them - but they are based in India. Not sure who you had contact with?

 

I renewed direct with April International last month on the basis that I could not find a more optimal  (cost/value) policy that I trusted. I also removed AA World as my broker. Sheryl has moved her business to a French based broker who deals with April and I think that is recorded in one of the threads above.

 

[OneMoreFarang]

5 hours ago, dinga said:

I'm fortunate to maintain medical coverage under the Thai Social Security arrangements by continuing to pay the some 500 baht in monthly subs  -  so guess it's a matter of time really before unaffordable costs force me to abandon an International Policy. 

Did anybody here try that? What is your experience with that?

(Sorry, I hope this fits into this thread.)

[dinga]

8 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Did anybody here try that? What is your experience with that?

(Sorry, I hope this fits into this thread.)

 

YES - I've created another Thread for this specific question (Thai Social Security Health Coverage)

[Sheryl]

AA Brokers no longer handles international policies. Supposedly their international portfolio was shifted to something called AA World based in India, website not functional. Personally I switched to a broker based in France when this happened (AOC).

 

If this Regency policy was recommended to you by AA Brokers in Thailand, it is a Thai issued policy and to be avoided.

 

Like many insurers, April has 5 year age brackets and there is always a big increase when you move from one 5 year bracket to another.   In between such changes all you will have are inflationary increases (if any) applicable to all.

 

In other words you will probably not face this level of increase for the next 4 years after this renewal. (But likely a bigger one on turning 75).

 

Since you have SS, additional insurance is not essential but of course provides you with a free choice of doctors and hospitals. Up to you whether worth it. 

 

 

[spidermike007]

I gave up my health insurance more than 12 years ago, after I got 20% increases year after year after year, having made no claims whatsoever. Insurance companies are a mafia, and I support them as little as I can. I have accident insurance for me and my gal. And I get good travel insurance when I travel back to the US. Fortunately I haven't needed health insurance  one time since then, and I've saved at least 1.2 million baht.

 

I just self-insure at this point, health care costs in Thailand are reasonable. Just had some minor heart issues. Two months worth of treatment and exams at Ramathibodi. 13,000 baht total. 

[newbee2022]

21 hours ago, Sheryl said:

it is a Thai issued policy and to be avoided

I'm puzzled. Why to avoid???

[jerrymahoney]

38 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

I gave up my health insurance more than 12 years ago, after I got 20% increases year after year after year, having made no claims whatsoever. Insurance companies are a mafia, and I support them as little as I can. I have accident insurance for me and my gal. And I get good travel insurance when I travel back to the US. Fortunately I haven't needed health insurance  one time since then, and I've saved at least 1.2 million baht.

So 12 years saving 1.2 million baht or average 100,000 baht per year going back to when you were still in your age 40's.

 

Pretty expensive stuff.

 

But as I have written before, coming up with an annual premium for insurance I can handle but my finances are such that coming up with a big lump sum payment for a major medical event would be difficult at best.

Edited December 23, 2023 by jerrymahoney

[Jurg]

On 12/21/2023 at 6:53 PM, dinga said:

Huge frustration every year at this time as there's the decision to be made about what on earth to do with Health Insurance Policy (even more so as I'll be 70 at the time of next renewal).

 

I've been reasonably happy with April International for OP only coverage until now (albeit I've never made a claim)- with the exception of their annual fee increases.  This year the Premium is up by an astounding +18%   I'm fortunate to maintain medical coverage under the Thai Social Security arrangements by continuing to pay the some 500 baht in monthly subs  -  so guess it's a matter of time really before unaffordable costs force me to abandon an International Policy.    

 

I bleated to AA Brokers about that increase and they have come back with a recommendation to get a new Policy with Regency for Expats.  I had never heard of them but a very brief consultation with Prof Google has raised some red flags - incl;uding:

*  Trust Pilot 

*  Laws of Nevis (West Indies) are the applicable laws for the Policy.  [Nevis being a noted tax haven]

 

None of that stuff gives me confidence. 

 

Appreciate any information/experience with Regency and any suggestions about what alternative I should consider.

 

Thanks & best regards  

Unfortunately with an OA Visa here you are forced into a Thai Health Insurance.  Very expensive especially after the age of 75 years.

Sooner then later one can expect that the O Visa also would require the same, a Thai Insurance, for a yearly renewal at the Immigration.

 

Keep in mind: My advise is get as early as possible into a Thai Health Insurance. If you wait till you forced getting a Thai Health Insurance, especially after the age of 75 you are paying astronomical premiums just to get in!

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, jerrymahoney said:

So 12 years saving 1.2 million baht or average 100,000 baht per year going back to when you were still in your age 40's.

 

Pretty expensive stuff.

 

But as I have written before, coming up with an annual premium for insurance I can handle but my finances are such that coming up with a big lump sum payment for a major medical event would be difficult at best.

The problems with the "saving X amount over X years by not paying for insurance" line of reasoning are:

• It might turn out that way, but it could just as easily occur that you are faced with a costly illness or accident right at the start of this "saving" period. There is no guarantee that you will not need costly care well before you have saved enough in not paying premiums.
• Once you spend the money, it is gone. What then? No guarantee how many more years will pass before you again have major health expenses.

Only people who have already available to them, readily, at least 1 million baht (at least 3 if wanting the option of private hospitals) and the means to replenish it once spent (or a back-up plan like returning to home country), can safely self insure.

 

Ironically most people who meet that criteria prefer to instead get insurance if they can,  as a means of protecting their assets. While most of the people who say they are self-insured do not meet this criteria and are really uninsured or under-insured.  Which works fine until suddenly it doesn't. 

 

[jerrymahoney]

2 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

"saving X amount over X years by not paying for insurance"

Well no problem, Ms. Sheryl. But I did not write that; I was just responding to someone who did.

[TICINO]

37 minutes ago, Jurg said:

Unfortunately with an OA Visa here you are forced into a Thai Health Insurance.  Very expensive especially after the age of 75 years.

Sooner then later one can expect that the O Visa also would require the same, a Thai Insurance, for a yearly renewal at the Immigration.

 

Keep in mind: My advise is get as early as possible into a Thai Health Insurance. If you wait till you forced getting a Thai Health Insurance, especially after the age of 75 you are paying astronomical premiums just to get in!

 

What you write is not correct, when you would be 75 years old even if you have been insured for 20 years you will still pay astronomical amounts for health insurance

 

[Sheryl]

16 minutes ago, TICINO said:

 

What you write is not correct, when you would be 75 years old even if you have been insured for 20 years you will still pay astronomical amounts for health insurance

 

True but you would have very limited options in terms of available policies if no pre-existing conditions.  And some would automatically apply exclusions you could otherwise avoid by getting in earlier.  If you have pre-existing conditions (most people do, by age 75) then you might be completely unable to get insured.

 

All that said, best to not get (or get rid of) O-A policy in favor of extensions basedo n non-O so that you are not tied to Thai insurers.

 

International policy rates also go up with age but not as severely as Thai policies. (Many Thai companies will not insure at all past a certain age, or will drop you at a certain age). 

 

I would not call the rates for inpatient only interntional insurance at age 75 "astronomical". Higher than at younger ages certainly, but not "astronomical". Some Thai policies really are, though. 

 

 

 

 

[TICINO]

32 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

True but you would have very limited options in terms of available policies if no pre-existing conditions.  And some would automatically apply exclusions you could otherwise avoid by getting in earlier.  If you have pre-existing conditions (most people do, by age 75) then you might be completely unable to get insured.

 

All that said, best to not get (or get rid of) O-A policy in favor of extensions basedo n non-O so that you are not tied to Thai insurers.

 

International policy rates also go up with age but not as severely as Thai policies. (Many Thai companies will not insure at all past a certain age, or will drop you at a certain age). 

 

I would not call the rates for inpatient only interntional insurance at age 75 "astronomical". Higher than at younger ages certainly, but not "astronomical". Some Thai policies really are, though. 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, you are right, my comment was about Thai insurance where I called them astronomical because after 75 y you have to pay an annual amount equal to the amount you are insured. At this point, as written by spidermike007, it is only advisable to self-insure in Thailand.

[couchpotato]

19 minutes ago, TICINO said:

 

Yes, you are right, my comment was about Thai insurance where I called them astronomical because after 75 y you have to pay an annual amount equal to the amount you are insured. At this point, as written by spidermike007, it is only advisable to self-insure in Thailand.

Confusing post..can you explain better what you mean..thanks

[Sheryl]

On 12/23/2023 at 11:13 AM, couchpotato said:

Confusing post..can you explain better what you mean..thanks

What he means is that some Thai insurers charge premiums at older ages equal to the full maximum coverage. Incredible, but true. Apparently the assumption is that anyone that age will be hospitalized every single year and run up bills at or over their maximum cover. Ridiculous but that is the way it is. Many will not insure past age 65 at any price. It is a rare Thai policy that guarantees lifetime renewal. 

[Huckenfell]

On 12/21/2023 at 9:53 PM, dinga said:

Huge frustration every year at this time as there's the decision to be made about what on earth to do with Health Insurance Policy (even more so as I'll be 70 at the time of next renewal).

 

I've been reasonably happy with April International for OP only coverage until now (albeit I've never made a claim)- with the exception of their annual fee increases.  This year the Premium is up by an astounding +18%   I'm fortunate to maintain medical coverage under the Thai Social Security arrangements by continuing to pay the some 500 baht in monthly subs  -  so guess it's a matter of time really before unaffordable costs force me to abandon an International Policy.    

 

I bleated to AA Brokers about that increase and they have come back with a recommendation to get a new Policy with Regency for Expats.  I had never heard of them but a very brief consultation with Prof Google has raised some red flags - incl;uding:

*  Trust Pilot 

*  Laws of Nevis (West Indies) are the applicable laws for the Policy.  [Nevis being a noted tax haven]

 

None of that stuff gives me confidence. 

 

Appreciate any information/experience with Regency and any suggestions about what alternative I should consider.

 

Thanks & best regards  

What is this 500 bht insurance that you are talking about?

 

[Ralf001]

4 minutes ago, Huckenfell said:

What is this 500 bht insurance that you are talking about?

 

 

[dinga]

On 12/22/2023 at 10:08 AM, Sheryl said:

AA Brokers no longer handles international policies. Supposedly their international portfolio was shifted to something called AA World based in India, website not functional. Personally I switched to a broker based in France when this happened (AOC).

 

If this Regency policy was recommended to you by AA Brokers in Thailand, it is a Thai issued policy and to be avoided.

 

Like many insurers, April has 5 year age brackets and there is always a big increase when you move from one 5 year bracket to another.   In between such changes all you will have are inflationary increases (if any) applicable to all.

 

In other words you will probably not face this level of increase for the next 4 years after this renewal. (But likely a bigger one on turning 75).

 

Since you have SS, additional insurance is not essential but of course provides you with a free choice of doctors and hospitals. Up to you whether worth it. 

 

 

G'day Sheryl

 

Seems April is a Black Hole  -  utterly Zero specifics about how the Premiums are calculated or the current Premium payable for renewal of a Policy with exactly the same conditions as my current one - with the exception that if the age at renewal was 70 (rather than my sprighty 69).  This is the answer provided via AA World:

 

"April has mentioned that the tariff based on 70 years of age will not be taken into account until 2025, and they do not yet have information on these tariffs. Indeed, the insurer defines premium for each year on the basis of the age of the insured and the zones of cover and formulas chosen".

 

Penny to a pound that the Premium increase for my renewal in 2/2025 will greatly exceed the 18% increase offered now.

 

Mighty unhappy with April's lack of candour and transparency - got some thinking to do. 

 

Like a few other posters, I was shafted by Allianz when they closed down Hauteville (via David Shield) and generously offered alternative policies 'under the same terms' [but then screwed us with massive premium increases in the subsequent year/s].  To say I lack confidence in Health Insurance Companies is a gross understatement, given my experiences over pretty well the last decade.

 

 

 

BRs   

[Sheryl]

On 1/16/2024 at 6:55 PM, dinga said:

G'day Sheryl

 

Seems April is a Black Hole  -  utterly Zero specifics about how the Premiums are calculated or the current Premium payable for renewal of a Policy with exactly the same conditions as my current one - with the exception that if the age at renewal was 70 (rather than my sprighty 69).  This is the answer provided via AA World:

 

"April has mentioned that the tariff based on 70 years of age will not be taken into account until 2025, and they do not yet have information on these tariffs. Indeed, the insurer defines premium for each year on the basis of the age of the insured and the zones of cover and formulas chosen".

 

Penny to a pound that the Premium increase for my renewal in 2/2025 will greatly exceed the 18% increase offered now.

 

Mighty unhappy with April's lack of candour and transparency - got some thinking to do. 

 

Like a few other posters, I was shafted by Allianz when they closed down Hauteville (via David Shield) and generously offered alternative policies 'under the same terms' [but then screwed us with massive premium increases in the subsequent year/s].  To say I lack confidence in Health Insurance Companies is a gross understatement, given my experiences over pretty well the last decade.

 

 

 

BRs   

 

I think the issue may have more to do with your broker than with the insurer. "age of thew insured, zones of cover and formulas chosen" are all known factors specific to you and your policy.

 

It is true that no insurer can tell you in advance exactly what rates will be a year hence since there are inflationary adjustments each year. But they can tell you what the rates are, by age, currently and from that you can get an idea of how much more increase is likely as you age. A good broker could readily get that info for you.

 

 

[dinga]

On 1/21/2024 at 9:00 AM, Sheryl said:

 

I think the issue may have more to do with your broker than with the insurer. "age of thew insured, zones of cover and formulas chosen" are all known factors specific to you and your policy.

 

It is true that no insurer can tell you in advance exactly what rates will be a year hence since there are inflationary adjustments each year. But they can tell you what the rates are, by age, currently and from that you can get an idea of how much more increase is likely as you age. A good broker could readily get that info for you.

 

 

G'day Sheryl

 

A couple of times I asked exactly that question (via the Broker)   -  what is the Premium renewal now for my exact policy coverage, but for a 70 year old (not 69 as I now am).

 

This is the reply I finally received"  “Our processing times are currently affected by a surge in activity. We apologise for this delay. 

For your information, the rates for the My Health International are not based on age-related increases. 

Furthermore, we have no visibility over price increases for next year, as these are set by the insurer. 

We look forward to hearing from you. Please do not hesitate to contact us should you require any further information. 

 

I will not be renewing this policy as:

 

1.  I don't believe the advice that the Premium next year will be unaffected by my moving into the next standard Age Bracket that seems to be used by most/all other Insurers; 

 

2.  April and/or the Broker has been/is a Black Hole in relation to service, response times and more importantly, transparency.

 

    

 

 

 

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, dinga said:

G'day Sheryl

 

A couple of times I asked exactly that question (via the Broker)   -  what is the Premium renewal now for my exact policy coverage, but for a 70 year old (not 69 as I now am).

 

This is the reply I finally received"  “Our processing times are currently affected by a surge in activity. We apologise for this delay. 

For your information, the rates for the My Health International are not based on age-related increases. 

Furthermore, we have no visibility over price increases for next year, as these are set by the insurer. 

We look forward to hearing from you. Please do not hesitate to contact us should you require any further information. 

 

I will not be renewing this policy as:

 

1.  I don't believe the advice that the Premium next year will be unaffected by my moving into the next standard Age Bracket that seems to be used by most/all other Insurers; 

 

2.  April and/or the Broker has been/is a Black Hole in relation to service, response times and more importantly, transparency.

 

    

 

 

 

Definitely, rates vary with age.

 

Broker info is incorrect.

 

For me, I paid $3,229 at age 69 then $4,073 at age 70 (this is with a $500 deductible, and the Essential plan - years were 2022 and 2023 respectively).

 

If I were you I'd try a better broker. Which you will need anyway even if changing policies (which they can advise you on).

 

 

 

 

[dinga]

On 2/7/2024 at 3:07 PM, Sheryl said:

Definitely, rates vary with age.

 

Broker info is incorrect.

 

For me, I paid $3,229 at age 69 then $4,073 at age 70 (this is with a $500 deductible, and the Essential plan - years were 2022 and 2023 respectively).

 

If I were you I'd try a better broker. Which you will need anyway even if changing policies (which they can advise you on).

 

 

 

 

Tks Sheryl  -  AA World was the Broker (no surprise, eh!).  A feather will knock you over after I reveal that they were pushing Regency.  I concluded the claim (sic) about having no regard for age-bands was absolute b/s and I wasn't prepared to go through the usual exclusion of anything faintly smelling of existing conditions for an alternative policy.

 

I've had a gutfull of Health Insurance companies, and concluded it was only a matter of time anyway before the leeches would price health coverage well beyond reasonable & affordable. 

 

Hence, from now on I'll rely on my Thai Social Security cover and pay for any additional upgrades.  

 

 

 

 

[dinga]

On 2/7/2024 at 3:07 PM, Sheryl said:

Definitely, rates vary with age.

 

Broker info is incorrect.

 

For me, I paid $3,229 at age 69 then $4,073 at age 70 (this is with a $500 deductible, and the Essential plan - years were 2022 and 2023 respectively).

 

If I were you I'd try a better broker. Which you will need anyway even if changing policies (which they can advise you on).

 

 

 

 

By way of comparison, I have a BASIC Plan, Hospitalisation & Basic Repat only, US$500 deductible for a Premium of US$3,324 when I renewed in February 2023 (at age 69). 

 

The proposed premium for renewal of this policy in February 2024 was US$3,925  -  and increase of over 18%. 

 

Your numbers suggest I could expect an increase of well over 20% if I was to renew my policy in February 2025 at age 70  -  taken the new premium to near US$5,000.

 

Bye-Bye April