Want To Know Sth Abt " นี้ " And " นี่ "

[Aulok]

I guess that นี้ as an isolated word does not occur in the subject or object position as often as นี่ because the latter means "this one here" or "here". Although both of them are demonstratives, the word นี้ is often used as a modifier.

The word นี่ in นี่คือดอกกุหลาบ can mean "this rose that is here" or simple "here'. I guess many people do not use นี้ here.

Is นี้คืออะไร a more modern expression?

Edited February 27, 2011 by Aulok

[LazyYogi]

นี้ is never by itself as a subject or object because it's just an adjective. It needs to be modifying some noun or classifier that represents a noun.

นี่ on the other hand is already a type of pronoun, so it can stand alone.

I think it's better to translate both of them as "this" most of the time. So your sentence นี่คือดอกกุหลาบ would be "This is a rose".

That way you don't confuse "(this thing) here" with "here (in this location)".

Edited February 27, 2011 by LazyYogi

[Aulok]

นี้ is never by itself as a subject or object because it's just an adjective. It needs to be modifying some noun or classifier that represents a noun.

นี่ on the other hand is already a type of pronoun, so it can stand alone.

I think it's better to translate both of them as "this" most of the time. So your sentence นี่คือดอกกุหลาบ would be "This is a rose".

That way you don't confuse "(this thing) here" with "here (in this location)".

Thank you for the reply. I asked this because I found นี้ is used as the subject by itself. I wonder if this is relatively a later development in Thai language history.

[meadish_sweetball]

Yes, it is actually quite common these days. It may even be mentioned in Richard Noss's grammar from the 1950s if I recall correctly.

[Rikker]

To use some jargon, นี่ is a demonstrative pronoun, นี้ is a demonstrative determiner. For comparison, English uses the same word for both grammatical roles--"I don't like this" ('this' is a pronoun) vs. "I don't like this dog" ('this' modifies 'dog').

If นี้ is used as a pronoun it's considered incorrect, especially in writing. You might compare it to errors in English like there/their, to/too, etc. Widely used, despite being incorrect.

[Aulok]

Yes, it is actually quite common these days. It may even be mentioned in Richard Noss's grammar from the 1950s if I recall correctly.

It is mentioned at page 102 in Richard Noss's Thai Reference Grammar (1964): niiH baanF yaiL (This is the big house).

[Aulok]

To use some jargon, นี่ is a demonstrative pronoun, นี้ is a demonstrative determiner. For comparison, English uses the same word for both grammatical roles--"I don't like this" ('this' is a pronoun) vs. "I don't like this dog" ('this' modifies 'dog').

If นี้ is used as a pronoun it's considered incorrect, especially in writing. You might compare it to errors in English like there/their, to/too, etc. Widely used, despite being incorrect.

I quite agree with you. Yes we can find such "incorrectness" every where in the English world. When they become popular they are "acceptable" although ungrammatical: I don't know nothing; She don't love me anymore, oh, baby. These are correct for common people but not for the grammarians (samething wiht นี่ and นี้ ). Who knows if the word 'does' is replaced by 'do' in 200 years to come?

Edited March 1, 2011 by Aulok