Thai Navy Defends Plan To Buy Used Subs

[webfact]

Navy defends plan to buy used subs

By THE NATION

The Navy needs to buy second-hand German submarines as other countries in the region could threaten Thailand with their fleets during a conflict, a military source said yesterday.

"In case of a clash, they could send their submarines to block our territorial waters, and Thailand would be left helpless. We need submarines to counter such an operation. All the countries around Thailand now have their own to protect their sovereignty. Burma is getting theirs from China soon," the source said.

The plan to purchase the dated submarines, which have long been on the Navy's wish list, comes after the Air Force and the Army upgraded their arsenals with new equipment. The Air Force is now flying Gripen jet fighters from Sweden and the Army has Ukrainian BTR-3EI armoured vehicles and Russian MI-17 helicopters at its disposal, the source said.

The Navy anticipates heightened security risks from countries in the region, such as Malaysia, Singapore and China, the source said.

The Navy needs to spend |Bt1.8 billion to buy the six used |submarines and Bt5 billion for repair and spare parts, the source said, adding the subs would be good for 10 more years after refurbishment.

The Type 206A submarines will be acquired from the German navy in a government-to-government deal.

They run on diesel engines and electric motors with a crew of 22. They are designed for anti-surface and anti-submarine, mine-laying and reconnaissance missions and can be armed with eight torpedoes and 24 mines.

The subs are in the process of decommissioning after serving for more than 30 years.

The 35-year-old vessels were due for retirement from 2011-2015, but the German navy brought the dates forward to save on operating costs, according to Jane's defence magazine.

According to a senior Navy officer, German navy officials visited Thailand late last year and offered to sell the submarines.

He told Jane's that the German submarines had been selected ahead of the Type 209s and Type 039s offered by South Korea and China, respectively.

The Navy also held discussions with Swedish shipbuilder Kockums about the availability of Gotland-class submarines, according to the magazine.

The Navy's proposal to buy new submarines had been rejected by previous governments due to the expensive prices. Those from leading weapons-manufacturing countries like Germany, Sweden, Russia and France command about Bt30 billion each.

-- The Nation 2011-03-29

[boggle]

"The Navy anticipates heightened security risks from countries in the region, such as Malaysia, Singapore and China, the source said."

These three contries are well known war mungers. Its well documented.

"The subs are in the process of decommissioning after serving for more than 30 years."

There will be no future issues with these well seasoned machines. Maybe a couple of Harriers to fly of their deck will go well.

"The plan to purchase the dated submarines, which have long been on the Navy's wish list, comes after the Air Force and the Army upgraded their arsenals with new equipment."

Fair enough. Little Johnny got a new bike so I want one too mum.

Edited March 28, 2011 by boggle

[bangkokeddy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_206_submarine

[wintermute]

Wow, these are even bigger clunkers than I thought. They were recently upgraded with GPS and the sub is from a 1960's technology base.

[dumpling]

next they will paint them yellow in keeping with the sixties theme

[cougar52]

Of the 18 submarines built for the Bundesmarine (West German Navy), 12 were modernized in the early 1990s and were re-designated as Type 206A; the others have been decommissioned. The current German Navy is starting to decommission some 206A vessels, with more of the new Type 212 submarines being commissioned. In June 2010 the Ministry of Defence announced that all six remaining vessels were to be retired from active service immediately and to be decommissioned by the end of 2010 to cut costs.

The six non-modernized are the ones that Thailand wants to buy, I surmise??

[Buchholz]

Of the 18 submarines built for the Bundesmarine (West German Navy), 12 were modernized in the early 1990s and were re-designated as Type 206A; the others have been decommissioned. The current German Navy is starting to decommission some 206A vessels, with more of the new Type 212 submarines being commissioned. In June 2010 the Ministry of Defence announced that all six remaining vessels were to be retired from active service immediately and to be decommissioned by the end of 2010 to cut costs.

The six non-modernized are the ones that Thailand wants to buy, I surmise??

No, the non-modernized ones are designated 206.

The modernized ones are designated 206A and as per the OP:

The Type 206A submarines will be acquired

[dunkin2012]

next they will paint them yellow in keeping with the sixties theme

we all live in the yellow submarine.....haha..

Seems like toy Navy ain't be very much helpful...to LOS ....

How many % commission into the pocket?

Poor versus desire..

[Mugg]

Bravo Zulu Thailand !!!!!!!!!! Since they are the ones protecting us now, anything they acquire to that end is good IMO.

[Ricardo]

'Left Hand Down A Bit, Mr Pertwee. Whooop ! Whooop! Oops, Sorry Pardon' (UK's Navy-Lark radio-show of old)

At least they're not nuclear-submarines, but the need for these does seem a bit of a stretch, are there no Italian 2 Man Subs left-over, from the 2nd WW ?

Edited March 29, 2011 by Ricardo

[OZEMADE]

What happened to the CASH that Thaksin gave them to purchase these Sub's when he was in power?

What happened to the Cash that the current Gov gave the military when they came into power to purchase 2 new Subs.

That sounds like 2 lots of cash to me and no Subs and now the military are getting a third supply of cash to purchase a heap of worn out subs.

I think the USA and Australian Navy have enough in the area to handle what the Thai Military are worrying about, for goodness sake is there enough room in the Gulf for them.

[Buchholz]

What happened to the CASH that Thaksin gave them to purchase these Sub's when he was in power?

What happened to the Cash that the current Gov gave the military when they came into power to purchase 2 new Subs.

Please provide documentation for the above, because neither happened, as far as I know and no information that supported those claims was found.

.

Edited March 29, 2011 by Buchholz

[EyesWideOpen]

Uhhhhh I thought a couple of years ago when the Navy was talking about buying a sub, the King of Thailand came out in a public speech and said a sub was not a good idea. The navy must really be feeling their oats, to bring back this tired idea which is contrary to the King's wishes.... :jap:

[ginjag]

'Left Hand Down A Bit, Mr Pertwee. Whooop ! Whooop! Oops, Sorry Pardon' (UK's Navy-Lark radio-show of old)

At least they're not nuclear-submarines, but the need for these does seem a bit of a stretch, are there no Italian 2 Man Subs left-over, from the 2nd WW ?

My god, Ha Ha Pity they couldn't have got the BISMARK -HOOD-BELGRANO-Troop carrier TITANIC, and with the aircraft carrier they have, they would become collectors items, and good money for the set.

My post I know is ridiculous, but the purchace is a joke ..The only threat could be Laos--in full flood they could go up the Mekong. :cheesy:

[saintofsilence]

Buying 30 year old submarines with a life of 10 more years is a complete waste ,what happens after 10 years what do they upgrade to another lot of 10 year submarines.

It would make more sense to buy 1 or two new submarines and have crews that are trained with latest technology.

To say they will protect Thailand from military conflict is a bit of waffle. Modern day Submarines , aircraft and ships will detect these old black subs well before they have a chance to fire a single missile.

My suggestion would be let the Germans display how good they are in a real miltary exercise I bet they will be one of the first to be blown up.

[Thaddeus]

It would make more sense to buy 1 or two new submarines and have crews that are trained with latest technology.

They can't fight if they are outnumbered.

[rangers]

I'm no navy man but with the Gulf of Thailand max depth 200ft i would think a sub would be an easy target.

Maybe they want them to be a museum the same as the aircraft carrier they have in Sattahip with kids climbing all over it. What a waste of money that was.

[h5kaf]

I'm no navy man but with the Gulf of Thailand max depth 200ft i would think a sub would be an easy target.

Maybe they want them to be a museum the same as the aircraft carrier they have in Sattahip with kids climbing all over it. What a waste of money that was.

Very astute! I think you have cracked it. They are secretly preparing the ground to be the "submarine museum hub" of the world. At last a realistic objective.

[dunkin2012]

I'm no navy man but with the Gulf of Thailand max depth 200ft i would think a sub would be an easy target.

Maybe they want them to be a museum the same as the aircraft carrier they have in Sattahip with kids climbing all over it. What a waste of money that was.

The German offered higher commission? This plan will fade away.... again... no way is can be realistic...

last year alone ...............

do you guys remember this news?

12 Aug 2010

dumping 25 decommissioned army tanks, 273 old train cars, and 198 garbage trucks into the ocean to create artificial reefs

Officials dump a Chinese-made T-69 armored tank into the Gulf of Thailand (Reuters)

Edited March 29, 2011 by dunkin2012

[saintofsilence]

The Thai government needs to do more research before buying these I don't know who they are using as advisors and consultants but what a backward step this is just unbelievable . These subs are to outdated look what australia does with 30 year old subs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMAS_Otway_(S_59)

The Germans would be laughing for getting rid of there old junk saves cutting it up for scrap.

Edited March 29, 2011 by saintofsilence

[Payboy]

How do you sink a Thai submarine?

Knock on the hatch.

[Buchholz]

What happened to the CASH that Thaksin gave them to purchase these Sub's when he was in power?

What happened to the Cash that the current Gov gave the military when they came into power to purchase 2 new Subs.

Please provide documentation for the above, because neither happened, as far as I know and no information that supported those claims was found.

I found this after a bit of searching through Google. I highlighted the part you wanted me to prove. It was in the Bangkok Post, I could not be bothered looking for the second one.

Note the date.

Nicely Played

You have a low threshold for ascribing what is considered a good reply.

Problem is Claim Number 1 is not even responded to (because it never happened?) and Claim Number 2 has a highly suspect "breaking news" brief apparently hastily written as it has the Army buying a submarine???

Additionally, there's no further follow-up or expanded article found nor any collaborating news article.

Worthy to note, however, is information gleaned from an obviously less-rushed article at the time is that the funding was actually not for submarines, but for anti-submarine helicopter procurement.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Police-armed-services-submit-hefty-equipment-lists-30112743.html

p.s. Quotes fixed and disallowed Bangkok Post article removed.

.

Edited March 29, 2011 by Buchholz

[Buchholz]

I'm no navy man but with the Gulf of Thailand max depth 200ft i would think a sub would be an easy target.

The maximum depth in the Gulf is actually 262 feet.

No submarine is an "easy target", even in shallower waters.

The 206A submarine is very small and was designed for use in another relatively shallow body of water, the Baltic.

One also shouldn't ignore Thailand's 740 kilometers of coast line on the Andaman Sea.

[metisdead]

A post with a hidden link to Bangkok Post has been removed as well as a reply to it.

31) All members are not allowed to quote news articles or material from bangkokpost.com or phuketwan inside topics on thaivisa.com. Posts containing quotes will be deleted from the forum. Links referring back to the sites are also not allowed and will be deleted.

[cheeryble]

Tell me it ain't so!!

ps:How do you ground a Thai submarine?

Open up a somtum shop on the beach

Edited March 29, 2011 by cheeryble

[fma]

How about getting some leftover nuclear subs from Russia? Could go well with the ambitions to build nuclear power stations. Synergy effects?

[kutjebu]

Same for parts of the North sea.

I'm no navy man but with the Gulf of Thailand max depth 200ft i would think a sub would be an easy target.

Maybe they want them to be a museum the same as the aircraft carrier they have in Sattahip with kids climbing all over it. What a waste of money that was.

[biplanebluey]

Another absolute waste of money------- sort out the poverty at home first-------we have allies to defend us

[bangon04]

'Left Hand Down A Bit, Mr Pertwee. Whooop ! Whooop! Oops, Sorry Pardon' (UK's Navy-Lark radio-show of old)

At least they're not nuclear-submarines, but the need for these does seem a bit of a stretch, are there no Italian 2 Man Subs left-over, from the 2nd WW ?

How about some WW1 U-boots from a museum?

Today is a special day for Nonsense announcements. I propose the Thai Ministries and all their spokesmen (and "Sources") take a very well-earned holiday on April 1st, and give us all a break....

Edited March 29, 2011 by bangon04

[Payboy]

Should I already draft that news release about those missing torpedos?