Red Shirts Oppose Social Studies Textbooks Claiming False Information

[Tatsujin]

I wonder if there is a textbook that explains to Thai students how corrupt their country is and how the economy and political/legal processes are monopolised by a network of bloated, unaccountable parasites.

There could be another textbook explaining the role of the armed forces and police in Thailand. It could explain the culture of patronage, kickbacks, extortion and violence so prevalent in those institutions.

The judiciary would merit a volume too.

They don't need a textbook for any of that . . . it's genetically encoded and won't change anytime soon.

[Tatsujin]

I'm curious to know why so many of the (western) TV posters are either so vehemently "red" or "yellow" and refuse to listen to what the other "side" says . . . will any of these (western) "red" or "yellow" posters actually be affected by whichever party is in Govt in any significant way?

[exbelg]

do i read correct and in the text books for the education of 2008, it was already printed that red shirts would burn down several buildings in the capital and keep many places in bangkok hostage for several weeks ?

thai fortune tellers where text books in thailand ?

[animatic]

Some of the books I've seen seem to think it's too soon to mention World War II.

Probably because Thai leaders of that time don't looks so good in the light of todays knowledge of WWII

It is also sociologically encoded to hide or at least not push forward unpleasant facts, and this is reflected in the WWII text books, yes the info is there in some books, but only for those who go searching on their own, not pushed on most students as truth about a period.

The red shirts would wish the same for their section of history, particularly during an election cycle, because they can say the deliberate putting forward of unpleasant facts about them is a political act against them, it MUST be, otherwise they would be hidden like other unpleasant facts. yaadaa, yaadaa, yaadaa.

Not to mention having actual facts in text books that go counter to the Red Story they want believed means they MUST beat it down.

Propaganda 101 tell the lie, and tell it big, and tell it often

Propaganda 102, beat down ANY source that contradicts your lie, and the more accurate and more authoritative the source the HARDER you must beat it down.

Any credible source must be denigrated totally and consistently to keep the lie going, till your side is in a position to control the flow of information totally.

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Considering the rote learning and absolute unquestioned authority of Thai teachers, having anti-red truth in text books leads to a generation that will not believe them, since they have been taught not to.

Edited April 8, 2011 by animatic

[sunnyrolfe]

This kind of cretinism should not be tolerated. Facts are facts.

Not sticking up for redshirts but if FACTS ARE FACTS they would have to burn all Thai history books and rewrite them with the truth.

[ableguy]

doesn't matter anyway, for a generation of teens who can see it all on facebook links and youtube and grow up in the computer age.

Lets be honest, the red shirts may or may not have a cause but the way they act and what they say is classic comic book stupidity, they live in constant denial of their acts, trhey worship a corrupt convicted felon who was ousted by the military and yet they say if they win the election they will bring him back, are they dumb enough to believe they could actually achieve this , the answer seems to be yes.

I would suggest they enroll in mass at a primary school try and get the smattering of education they offer and the have them reassess the situation. Final analysis school kids with guns very dangerous.

[ableguy]

I'm curious to know why so many of the (western) TV posters are either so vehemently "red" or "yellow" and refuse to listen to what the other "side" says . . . will any of these (western) "red" or "yellow" posters actually be affected by whichever party is in Govt in any significant way?

Maybe the Westeners have more than half a brain, are educated, have the ability to distinguish between fact and fiction, have not been bought by a particular party, I could go on but whats the point

[TheLaughingMan]

another post by the famous 'all yellow if gold' poster! no analysis, no independence and no objectivity - I will not go so far as another poster to say 'JD' is being paid to write these things but he sure is biased - talk about 'better dead than red' propaganda - shame on you!

Actually it is quite the opposite, it is YOU that seems to have "no analysis, no independence and no objectivity". No thinking man can ignore all the facts about the red shirts terrorist behaviour and simply blanket blame the military for everything. I hate the yellows, hate the military and hate the reds so dont go labelling me anything either. But I watch and read all the facts and the reds were crazy out of line and were doing everything they could to force a violent confrontation.

What drives me absolutely NUTS about red supporters, is Thaksin is the kind of man to kill thousands to get what he wants, and if the positions had been reversed he wouldnt have even made the slightest attempt at not killing protestors that were violent and taking over the city. Unlike Abhisit who sat on his hands for months trying to find a way not to be baited into the reds trap.

[Buchholz]

do i read correct and in the text books for the education of 2008, it was already printed that red shirts would burn down several buildings in the capital and keep many places in bangkok hostage for several weeks ?

thai fortune tellers where text books in thailand ?

The textbooks weren't approved in 2008. The type of curriculum was.

The whole issue is reported much more clearly and accurately and is much less mangled than the NNT has managed to do in the OP by the "other paper" yesterday.

[Crushdepth]

It just amazes me that the basic facts of the situation - documented by dozens of international news teams - are in any way open to dispute. You can debate the morality of what happened if you like, but how can politicians make statements like "the army burned the buildings down" without becoming an object of public ridicule?

Do people really have their heads that far up their backsides? Are they disinterested in the truth or unusually gullible? Or do they only care that "their side" "wins" regardless of how it is done and the facts be damned?

[Oberkommando]

The red shirts are going to want to censor the internet with all that information out there.

The Junta then the Democrats have spend billions on monitoring the internet, and have been shutting down websites at a more vociferous pace than Thaksin ever did.

I wonder if PT win will they allow ridiculous sentences of 15+ years for thought crimes on the internet as this government does?

[Crushdepth]

If Thaksin was still here I'm sure he would have got into that too. And he was far worse when it comes to stifling the mainstream media.

Edited April 8, 2011 by Crushdepth

[ianh68]

Here is a sober analysis of recent events for those who are fed up with rants.

http://blogs.reuters.com/andrew-marshall/2011/02/13/reclaiming-the-truth-in-thailand/

Anyone interested in taking a close look at the Thai Social Studies Curriculum could do worse than read Neils Mulder's book: "Thai Images", especially the first two chapters.

[jdinasia]

If Thaksin was still here I'm sure he would have got into that too. And he was far worse when it comes to stifling the mainstream media.

Can a pace be vociferous? -----

To be fair Thaksin used a bit less outright censorship. Instead he pulled advertising revenue AND sued everybody.

[Oberkommando]

If Thaksin was still here I'm sure he would have got into that too. And he was far worse when it comes to stifling the mainstream media.

But he didn't go as far as this government and yet he quite easily could have. And I would argue with your assertion that he was harsher on the mainstream media, as all indicators suggest otherwise including the Press Freedom Index in which Thailand has fallen to an all-time low.

[Siripon]

If Thaksin was still here I'm sure he would have got into that too. And he was far worse when it comes to stifling the mainstream media.

But he didn't go as far as this government and yet he quite easily could have. And I would argue with your assertion that he was harsher on the mainstream media, as all indicators suggest otherwise including the Press Freedom Index in which Thailand has fallen to an all-time low.

Matichon newspaper is still a supporter of Thaksin and the Daily News main cartoon on page 3 has attacked the Democrats almost every day for the last 2 years.

[Tod Daniels]

Some how with videos like this still available for perusal I don't know how the red shirt supporters, errr apologists , are gonna spin it that the red leaders didn't advocate burning Bangkok down during the rally. ..

FWIW: this is NOT a fake red, NOT a yellow dressed in red nor a man in black, but one of the Red Shirt leaders, political firebrand (still on the run) none other than Arisman Pongruangrong himself.

Anyway you try to interpret the spoken dialog; the evidence seems pretty damning insofar as the red leaders DID instigate and even encourage their supporters to do bad things.

Now whether the redz were soley responsible for setting 'every' fire in Bangkok, I don't think anyone will ever get to the bottom of that story.

FWIW: I couldn't find the one that had the engrish translation, so if you can't understand spoken thai, have someone translate it for you.

Just from the tone of his voice it certainly doesn't sound like he was talking to the red rabble with a 'tongue-in-cheek' or joking attitude.

[rixalex]

The Junta then the Democrats have spend billions on monitoring the internet, and have been shutting down websites at a more vociferous pace than Thaksin ever did.

Sad if true, although i guess one does have to take into account that since Thaksin's time in office, content (or should that be crap?) on the internet has increased exponentially, and there is a need for some of it, such as stuff inciting violence, to be removed.

I wonder if PT win will they allow ridiculous sentences of 15+ years for thought crimes on the internet as this government does?

Well, if they do win, it might take some time to know the answer to this question, as to begin with their main work involving the judicial system will be concerning getting somebody off a sentence, not sending someone down.

[jdinasia]

Here is a sober analysis of recent events for those who are fed up with rants.

http://blogs.reuters...th-in-thailand/

Anyone interested in taking a close look at the Thai Social Studies Curriculum could do worse than read Neils Mulder's book: "Thai Images", especially the first two chapters.

The Reuters blog is pretty good. It left out a few salient points leading into the crackdown in April but got most of it down pretty well. (left out WHY the redshirt TV channel was taken off the air, and left out the events at the military base in the city.)

From that blog ----

Mysterious armed men, usually dressed in black, acted as guards in the camp; they were clearly there with the knowledge and permission of the red leadership.

It also left out the government's televised offer of fresh elections in 2010, that were offered in late March, while it focussed attention on the later offer.

I also honestly was unaware that the claim in the following quote was ever made (in fact I do not think it was ever made... but I have been wrong before!)

It is quite clear to any objective observer that this official narrative contains some obvious untruths. The most egregious is the claim that Thailand’s military was not responsible for a single civilian death or injury in April and May 201

Overall the blog is more about the Amsterdam paper and the blogger does mention some of its flaws ... Not a bad report/blog all-in-all!

[Netfan]

The red shirts are going to want to censor the internet with all that information out there.

The Junta then the Democrats have spend billions on monitoring the internet, and have been shutting down websites at a more vociferous pace than Thaksin ever did.

I wonder if PT win will they allow ridiculous sentences of 15+ years for thought crimes on the internet as this government does?

I don't like censorship by either side, but did Thakin's govt have to deal with hundreds (or more) websites calling for the violent overthrow of the govt and the revered institution? I will give Thaksin some credit - he didn't bother with the small fish - went after the major media with lawsuits to shut them up. Maybe if he comes back he'll save everyone the trouble of going thru the judicial system like he did with over 2500 accused drug dealers?

Edited April 8, 2011 by Netfan

[animatic]

If Thaksin was still here I'm sure he would have got into that too. And he was far worse when it comes to stifling the mainstream media.

But he didn't go as far as this government and yet he quite easily could have. And I would argue with your assertion that he was harsher on the mainstream media, as all indicators suggest otherwise including the Press Freedom Index in which Thailand has fallen to an all-time low.

Boith yes and no.

He went so far as to cause the same type of preemptive self censoring, different stick but same result.

The donkey shied from the carrot none the less.

One big difference is that the opposition has gone MUCH farther in the negative direction than anyone tried when Thaksin was trying to stifle them. And they were mostly going after Thakins team and it's huge amount of suspected illegal actions, verses the current crop which are virally anti-monarchy, and suborn violence against many.... a huge difference in style and intent of what and who is being controlled. Not to say any censorship is good, but some things are much more pernicious than others things. The two situations are barely comparable, except on a purely philosophical level.

[webfact]

Govt Defends Putting Red-shirt Riots in Textbook

A deputy prime minister says the inclusion of last year's red-shirt riots in a junior high textbook only aims to provide facts for students to study.

Deputy Prime Minister in charge of national security Suthep Thaugsuban said Education Minister Chinnaworn Bunyakiet explained to him that a Matthayom Three, or Grade Nine, textbook containing information about last year's unruly red-shirt protests is a supplementary document for students to study.

On a separate issue, the deputy premier stated that the appointment of Nakhon Si Thammarat's flood-ravaged Sichon district chief, which has been left vacant for six months, is being dealt with under the procedure of the Interior Ministry.

Suthep said he believed the Interior Ministry will complete the reshuffle of district chiefs in the South this month.

The deputy premier conceded the delay in the reshuffle of district chiefs may pose as an obstacle to the public sector in many southern provinces, but insisted the current floods will not dampen the popularity of his Democrat Party in the region.

The South is the ruling party's biggest stronghold.

On the growing public concern over the drastic rise of goods's prices, Suthep said the government is pushing for more measures to help the people cope with the higher cost of living.

-- Tan Network 2011-04-08

[arrowsdawdle]

What about the curriculum where the teacher told her class that lions are female and tigers are male?

Oh well, it's apolitical, we'll let that one slide.

Edited April 8, 2011 by arrowsdawdle

[animatic]

Last springs events are legitimately part of the study of Thailands social history. It happened in Thailand, caused primarily by Thai persons, and were a direct indication of alliances, divides and attitudes in Thai society at that time; which are EXACTLY the types of things studied in ' Social Studies'.

Edited April 8, 2011 by animatic

[animatic]

What about the curriculum where the teacher told her class that lions are female and tigers are male?

Oh well, it's apolitical, we'll let that one slide.

No that is just uninformed stupidity, most likely the teacher is not competent to teach that course. Any knowledgeable teacher would note the book was incorrect and teach reality.

Actually not even sure this teacher is competent to procreate without supervision....

Edited April 8, 2011 by animatic

[Thaddeus]

What about the curriculum where the teacher told her class that lions are female and tigers are male?

Oh well, it's apolitical, we'll let that one slide.

No that is just uninformed stupidity

Actually, that is Uniformed stupidity, there's quite a lot of that out there.

[inmysights]

It took me more than one time to quite grasp what this news report actually said. It's a particularly poor translation.

If anyone else is confused, this is my take:

- A Red Shirt* claimed that the current textbooks "could lead students to believe that they** were the cause of all the places being burnt down across the country***".

- The Office of Basic Education rubbished this claim and basically clarified the curriculum.

- The Office of Basic Education nonetheless opened an investigation based on the Red Shirt claims and will reprimand any school found to be pushing a political agenda at schoolkids.

* not sure if the group issued a statement or one of the leaders has piped up on his own or what...

** the Red Shirts or the schoolkids?

*** presumably in May last year.

Ummm I would say that there is some room for nuance in the statement "if the school is found to have taught against" ..... It doesn't seem tp say that the school cannot teach the facts at all. It seems to say that subjective information would be looked at and punished. Fact: Arisaman amongst others called for the burning of BKK. Fact: Bangkok had many buildings burned. Fact: The reds rallied at provincial offices upcountry and some red leaders were identified and charged with the burning of provincial offices in places like Nong Khai. No anti-red bias in stating facts.

Fact: The red shirt cannon fodder were not privy to all the facts insofar as their glorious leader Taksin needed them to support his self agrandising notion of returning victorious to Thailand (never going to happen during this reign), to further his aims of giving with the left hand, whilst taking much more with his right hand. No way.

Fact: The red shirts DO have a ligitimate cause for complaint insofar as the way they have been overlooked and sidelined by the 'ruling elite'. This is not the Yellow Shirts' sole preserve. I know of many former adherents to the now diminished PAD, who have turned their backs on them because of their stance over Prah Vhea temple grounds and have now woken up to the fact 'a temple too far' (sic), and that they are are trying to scratch a living also.

To wit: There is no Social security/welfare in this country and those that hold the majority of the wealth, the minority, do not give a jot about their native 'undumenchen' - therefore, as has been said before, jettison Taksin et al and present a viable platform.

They won't because the majority of them can't. Much the same as the indoctrinated nationalistic Thais of the 'predominantly' South have had the 'easy life if you just flow with the status quo' drummed into them. The very poor in the NE have felt the temporary benefits of populist policies. But in the more verdant South, have been ignored by Taksin because they 'did not vote for him' and the populace are not reduced to grubbing for insects.

Again. Education enabling free thinking and access to a world view outside their own country, is key. And will not be allowed here.

Edited April 8, 2011 by inmysights

[dunkin2012]

This is similar to the Japanese history being taught in class..... the Korea and Chinese can't cope with it..... ....

[hyperdimension]

Would a true and accurate account of Thai history be in violation of Lese Majeste law?

[Ricardo]

I'm curious to know why so many of the (western) TV posters are either so vehemently "red" or "yellow" and refuse to listen to what the other "side" says . . . will any of these (western) "red" or "yellow" posters actually be affected by whichever party is in Govt in any significant way?

Well yes, my family are mostly Thai nationals & we all live here, and they are affected by their government, so it does affect me, whoever is in power. But I hope & believe that I wouldn't let my own personal interests influence or deter me from speaking-up, against a clear absurdity or injustice, whatever the 'colour' of the people in power.

If Thaksin was still here I'm sure he would have got into that too. And he was far worse when it comes to stifling the mainstream media.

But he didn't go as far as this government and yet he quite easily could have. And I would argue with your assertion that he was harsher on the mainstream media, as all indicators suggest otherwise including the Press Freedom Index in which Thailand has fallen to an all-time low.

I sympathise somewhat with your POV on this particular issue, and would wish that all governments would loosen-up on censorship, as an important part of moving towards democracy.

But I can't forget how Thaksin kept bringing billion-baht slander-cases, against anyone who disagreed with him or brought-up inconvenient facts, the Suvarnabhumi-cracks story being a classic. Did the reporters ever get their jobs back at their newspaper ? The police directing the ex-drug-dealer to beat up on women & children & old men was also deeply worrying.

Thailand needs more tolerance of (peaceful) dissent, and probably the l.m.-laws need watering-down, but this clashes with the inherent/inbred respect for poo-yais, which is often undeserved.