Rubber Trees

[imokg2g]

Sold kee yang 20.20 baht per kilo yesterday.

Bueng Kan province.

Cheers,

J

[thoongfoned]

sold 20.6 baht today, up 40 satang from last time. I see on the morning news that sheet has been going up this week (daily) 50 plus baht....

[wijar]

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sold 20.6 baht today, up 40 satang from last time. I see on the morning news that sheet has been going up this week (daily) 50 plus baht....

Interesting to see that sheet is 2.5 times more than kee yang. I realise that making sheet is more labour intensive, but is it also so much more cost to produce for power and chemicals? I would have imagined that the tappers would love to work a few extra hours to "double" their take. I went the rubber way a few years ago, but not at tapping stage yet and would probably investigate seriously to make sheet rather than kee yang.

[Dakling]

Sheet is dryer, not exactly an apples to apples comparison. Not sure what the actual difference in water content is but you lose many of the kg you are being paid on.

[cobbler]

Most people in this area go sheet. Reason is because. Sheet can be stored and when the price is at its best , sell at that time, picking up a few extra bart. Also the myanmar workers like to do this as they see a lump sum of money , not just dribs and drabs. Difference in price after the water is dried out is not much if anything. We have done both . Chin up guys . Try if you can to diversify .

[kolohe]

If kee is at 20 and sheet is at 50 then I would think you'd want to sell sheets. The DRC of kee is about 80% I believe, give or take.

1000kg of kee will get you ~20,000 baht.

If that was turned into sheets, it should come to around 800kg of sheets bringing you ~40,000 baht.

[cobbler]

The conversion of liquid latex ie cup rubber to sheet will also differ according to density of rubber content to water. EG 1 litre of liquid latex from 7 year old rubber trees will have less rubber per litre of liquid latex than 1 litre of liquid latex from 10 year old rubber trees. 15 year old rubber trees will have a higher rubber content per litre of liquid latex than 1 litre of liquid latex from 10 year old rubber trees. 25 year old trees will produce even m8re dense rubber.

I hope I have explained this clearly enough for people to understand .

I have tested this theory myself and it is true.

So, this gives a reason to make sheet from older trees than sell cup. Because you are actually losing money by selling cup .

Cheers Cobbler

Edited December 20, 2014 by cobbler

[thoongfoned]

The conversion of liquid latex ie cup rubber to sheet will also differ according to density of rubber content to water. EG 1 litre of liquid latex from 7 year old rubber trees will have less rubber per litre of liquid latex than 1 litre of liquid latex from 10 year old rubber trees. 15 year old rubber trees will have a higher rubber content per litre of liquid latex than 1 litre of liquid latex from 10 year old rubber trees. 25 year old trees will produce even m8re dense rubber.

I hope I have explained this clearly enough for people to understand .

I have tested this theory myself and it is true.

So, this gives a reason to make sheet from older trees than sell cup. Because you are actually losing money by selling cup .

Cheers Cobbler

thats what i would have thought, older trees are better for sheet.

for us are trees are only 8 years old so...... plus its the cost of the press ect.... and then if the workers can be bothered ect..

i would imagine that there is also a "break even" price on producing sheet, because of labour and processing time. the wife finds it hard enough to get competent people just to tap and sell.

[cobbler]

Yes all of that comes into the equation also. Just have to do the best u can.

[kolohe]

Just figuring the straight math on the rubber and not the ancillary costs of materials, labor, wife, etc.. If you know the DRC content of your kee and multiply by the current sheet price, you can figure out what the break even point is on cup vs sheet.

Example:

DRC is 80%

Sheet price is 50 baht

50 * .8 =40 baht.

That means if cup rubber is selling less than 40 baht/kg, you are better off making sheets. The cheaper the cup price is in relation to that figure, the more money you will make with sheets..... again, strictly based on the rubber at the market. You will have to take into account other costs.

At the current rates of 20 baht for cup and 50 baht for sheet, your kee would have to have a 40% DRC or less... ie 60% water or greater before you are making better money with kee. I think if your rubber had only 40% DRC it would never coagulate into kee.

If you dont already have the machines to process the sheets then that is a pretty steep cost to surmount in addition to any other costs. However, if you already own the machines I dont see how you could go wrong selling sheets over kee unless your wife says "no".

BTW, I hear that the latest news is there will be more direct control next season over the prices. kee is supposed to be at 30 and sheets are supposed to be around 50...or something to that effect. Anyone else hear this?

Edited December 20, 2014 by kolohe

[kolohe]

I dont think the age of the tree or how much rubber content your trees puts out matters very much.

First, even tho the trees do vary with age, the variance isnt going to be dramatic.

Second, when yang is formed into kee, the water content cant be excessively high or else it wont coagulate into kee. The process of forming the latex into kee reduces the water content and thus the degrees of variance between tree ages is decreased.

Third, is because the sales price is based on, and adjusted for the rubber content of the kee. I know for most places its a loose method of adjustment but if the kee you bring has a higher water content, and thus a lower DRC you will get a lower price accordingly.

In the end, after processing, the DRC of your kee will be within a relatively narrow window of rubber content. When you take it to market your price will be adjusted accordingly and you are paid for your rubber content, not your water weight.

[cobbler]

To be honest. Good luck working it out on paper .

Another thing to think about is when there isa lot of rain . You will get more rubber flow , unless its hot or windy . So although you have a better flow, the rubber content will be less per liter.

If you have less rain , your rubber density will be higher per litre .

When its cold at night in december and january your rubber flow should be better. Density should be still good, but if your ground starts drying out too much you will not expect too much rubber flow. The flow will become less untill you close for the season.

So its all trial and error . Youll get bent in the head if you think you can work it out in your head or on paper. Too many variables. You change worker, then suddenly the flow drops off because he taps slightly differently than the old worker. Trees will adjust , then flow will increase again unless u fart into your leo bottle , and your fart makes a whistling sound . Then the rubber changes direction and flows out of the end of your weewee hole.

Im sure you get my drift. Farrrrrrrt

Cheers cobbler.

Edited December 20, 2014 by cobbler

[cobbler]

Example of my experience with different densities of rubber flows according to age of trees. Our trees are 10 year old. When we make our sheets the mix is 4 litres of liquid latex to 1 litre of water. Plus acid. Sheets weigh 1.2 kg approx

My wifes cousin, his trees are 25 years old . He uses same mix as us . His mats weigh 2.2 kg approximately .

This weight is whenthe sheets are dry and ready for sale. The longer you keep the sheets the more they lose weight. I know this because ive done these things.

Cheers cobbler

[cobbler]

Also trees just opened will be a big difference to 25 , 30 year old trees . Eg. If a tree is 50 cm around at 150cm above ground at age 7 years . Length of cut when tapping will be aprox 16 cm in length.

25 year old tree may have a tap length of 1 meter as the tree can be 3meters around the body .

Our 10 yearold trees on 20 rai produce approx 25 sheets weighing 2.2 kg per sheet. Same day my wifes cousins 25 year old trees on 20 rai . Produce 80 sheets weighing 2.2 kg per sheet.

Both farms are flat land .

If mountain land then its a different ballgame again.

[cobbler]

When you take your cup rubber into sale. If you dont see them test it for density , then you can guarantee they are paying you on the minimum rubber content density against the water content as you can be sure the buyer is not going to take a loss . If he did he would be broke before you saw him . Hope I explainedthis clearly enough

[kolohe]

Indeed, if you get a paper to try to work this out within a few baht you're wasting your time. The idea behind the math is to gain an understanding of the relationship between the methods. With that you can have an idea of when you might want to consider which method to use once your other factors are figured in. Everyone's variables and situation will be different.

Just remember, its all about the rubber content. The buyer have been doing it for a long time, they're not going to pay you for the water content.

[Issangeorge]

I have no rubber trees, thought about it a few years back, but saw everyone in the area was planting rubber, so figured when they were ready to tap there would be a surplus, and the price would go down. Looks like I was right. However yesterday I heard of a chap collecting rubber from the local growers, paying them ฿18 a kilogram, and then transporting it to the factory and getting ฿36 a kilogram. Is that plausible? If so might be away to make money off rubber.

[thoongfoned]

in any game its about who you know..... contacts/friends ect... that sounds like a very high mark up as the best grade sheet is only going for 50 ish baht kg. its been said on here by other members that people who buy the cup at auction are usually having a baht or so on the kg, the profit would be in the volume.

[BLACKJACK2]

When People put prices on for cup i've often thought why not do sheet its 100% more Money. Our machines cost 45,000bt, you can get them cheaper but a couple of months and they've paid for themselves. Tappers are happy they're making more money and they're not just sitting on there &lt;deleted&gt; all day, i'm happy i'm making more money and the tappers aren't sitting on there &lt;deleted&gt; all day. Everyones a winner

[Mosha]

I have no rubber trees, thought about it a few years back, but saw everyone in the area was planting rubber, so figured when they were ready to tap there would be a surplus, and the price would go down. Looks like I was right. However yesterday I heard of a chap collecting rubber from the local growers, paying them ฿18 a kilogram, and then transporting it to the factory and getting ฿36 a kilogram. Is that plausible? If so might be away to make money off rubber.

Jim Collister used to buy, and he said he would only make around a baht/kg

Edited December 22, 2014 by Mosha

[thaiguzzi]

When People put prices on for cup i've often thought why not do sheet its 100% more Money. Our machines cost 45,000bt, you can get them cheaper but a couple of months and they've paid for themselves. Tappers are happy they're making more money and they're not just sitting on there <deleted> all day, i'm happy i'm making more money and the tappers aren't sitting on there <deleted> all day. Everyones a winner

# It's not 100% more money otherwise everyone would be doing it.

# A good set of quality rollers (less electric motors and vee belts), one smooth, one ribbed are 18k the pair.

# Cobbler's recent posts pretty much nail the details between cup and sheet.

# Cup and sheet are almost identical in money, when prices were good , cup was generally 50% less than sheet. On a 7-8 year old tree in NE Isaan, you need 3 litres of liquid latex and 2 litres of water to make a 1.3 kg sheet. You do the maths. Hence virtually nobody up here is doing sheet.

# Your tappers can tap more trees if doing cup, and vice versa with sheet, as every tapping day, there is less time available if doing sheet, as there are more labour operations involved. On big plantations in the south, the tappers tap on a %age, and sheet is processed by separate workers paid a daily wage. No way could my best tappers cut 900 trees per night each AND then make sheet during the day.

# Selling at auction tomorrow, rumour is gate prices were 25 baht a couple of days ago!!! Our last sale 2 weeks ago was 20.32 baht per kg at auction. Fingers crossed we're on 26-27+.

[thaiguzzi]

And another thing...

Good tappers deserve to sit on their &lt;deleted&gt; doing "nothing" in the afternoon. It is their time off. At this time of the year, they are tapping at 1.00am, finishing at 6.30. Then get the kids ready for school, eat breakfast, have a 30 minute relax, and it's off to do the formic for 3 to 3.5 hours. That is a looong days/nights work. Believe me, they earn their money.

[cobbler]

Earn every stang they get . As mr thaiguzzi stated . Different things work in different areas. But 1 thing is the same, that is they deserve s rest when its over. Ive tapped flat land and mountain . Flat land is a long slog . Mountain is just insane.

[Mosha]

Sold at 20 at the gate 2 days ago.

[cobbler]

Merry mowwmas guys.

Cheers Cobbler

[Mosha]

Check list

Dinner - sorted

Drinks - sorted

Party food - sorted

Guests - sorted

Ear defenders - I knew I missed something.

Merry Christmas folks.

[thaiguzzi]

25 baht on the gate? Lying bastards! Sold cup at auction this week 21.60 baht per kg. Hate Christmas.

Happy new Year.

[Mosha]

25 baht on the gate? Lying bastards! Sold cup at auction this week 21.60 baht per kg. Hate Christmas.

Happy new Year.

19 Baht yesterday, after we were told 20.

[cobbler]

Dont hold your breath for this 50 per kilo. I cant see whear the money will come from, and , for how long. A business is either sustainable or it isn't.

Edited December 26, 2014 by cobbler

[Mosha]

Sopha got a letter to go to the local admin office to have her Chanote assessed for tax. Lucky it's just 1.5 Rai where the house is.