dunkin2012 Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 "media had given contradictory information, such as claiming the hotel owner was Panadda's relative, which was not true." So who is the owner of the Hotel and why are they Hiding? FYI , Hope this helps you !!!! it's from JFchandler I believe, it's not the family of CM's governor, but rather, the family of the former mayor of CM, who is the uncle of the current mayor of CM, that are owners of the company that operates the hotel involved and quite a few others... To think the Thai authorities would close the Downtown Inn, or even part of it, is wishful thinking. They didn't close the Laleena Guesthouse with the various tourist deaths there, never did, which apparently was owned by nobody particularly important... And it's pretty unlikely they'd do that in CM under the circumstances. I'd imagine avoiding any conclusion that blames the hotel or its operators would be pretty high on the local priority list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarangKenStine Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 TiT this is Krung thep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueTerrace Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 So in the "interests of transparency" government authorities will invite a NZ embassy representative to the press conference. Can anyone explain how having a consular official in the room as they talk to the press will improve transparency? Never heard such a load of arrant nonsense in all my life! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHANGOVER Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 TiT this is Krung thep Yes TiT but CM not BKK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHANGOVER Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 When/where is this press conference being aired? I haven't seen it on Thai TV yet and been watching since 2pm, have I missed it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryladie99 Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Maybe the mayor can prove this by taking a spoonful during the press conference. Good Idea. This is going to blow up in their faces because they're trying to smooth everything over and not being forthcoming (they haven't been since this first began). Another thing their "health expert" failed to mention is that the route of exposure is very critical in terms of health effects. The insecticide used did not kill the people because they took teaspoons of it. It killed them because they inhaled it all night in close proximity to the vapors. He also failed to mention that many other factors are involved in explaining why the hotel manager or others did not die from exposure (ventilation, length of exposure, concentration differences, etc.)... he also did not say whether or not every room was sprayed with that particular organochloride. Why doesn't he just come out and say that somebody made the concentration too strong and thus inadvertently poisoned the guests at his hotel (and probably at other nearby hotels). Land of massive censorship. Wow?? you are saying the Right thing and I do agree with your Post 100%. Awesome Post. But one thing I do know many of my Thai friends do not know how dangerous particular...Organochloride and you will be shocked how little they pay no attention to deadly chemicals that they use Day in and day out Careless...Now this is a case that will be a Life Lesson for many people. I feel for the families who lost...( broke my heart and soul ) Hope the Thai government Bans deadly Chemicals. We need Public outcry to Make a New law...my take and an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunkin2012 Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 When/where is this press conference being aired? I haven't seen it on Thai TV yet and been watching since 2pm, have I missed it? from the OP the press conference at 2pm today at the Chiang Mai Public Health Office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHANGOVER Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 When/where is this press conference being aired? I haven't seen it on Thai TV yet and been watching since 2pm, have I missed it? from the OP the press conference at 2pm today at the Chiang Mai Public Health Office. Apologies. I missed that salient point. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaihog Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 The Chiangmai governor has no credibility at all. Not only is he not elected according democratic rules, this person went out of his way to let everyone believe the deaths were natural. He is in no position to take the lead. Unfortunately all politicians are camera horny and have no shame. Although they made themselves completely ridiculous one day, they claim the high ground the next day. Just as the governor the Chiangmai police has precisely the same problem. The governor is probably a family friend of the owners of the hotel, so he's hardly likely to rock the boat.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunkin2012 Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 When/where is this press conference being aired? I haven't seen it on Thai TV yet and been watching since 2pm, have I missed it? from the OP the press conference at 2pm today at the Chiang Mai Public Health Office. Apologies. I missed that salient point. Cheers but so far nothing has been updated. I am waiting to hear what the governor will say too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raesum Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 I was in New Zealand 2 weeks ago and this girl's father is really pushing the issue over her cause of death. He is not taking it lightly and good on him. Let' s see a good honest result here. If that is possible Good on the father for persuing it. Thanks to the others for the info re the backlog of blood samples meaning it can take some time to get a result as i was asking myself the question"Why is it taking so looooong to get the results"(providing they will be made public) With the father asking the questions and not being put off by Thai gooble-dee-gook I sincerely hope he can get to the bottom of this mystery. I think the majority of us would like to know the truth as from all accounts it may turn out to be something which we all should be aware of when travelling.Best of luck to him after losing his daughter in such circumstances so far from home.He must feel like he has no-one to turn to especially in LOS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jocko Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Guilt Culture vs Shame Culture I have followed the details of this story as they have happened and i spoke to my Thai wife and a few Thai people about it. In their own sweet way the severity of what happened and the understanding to find the answer does not sink in as i try to form a deeper understanding with them. Also i feel the collectivist thinking does not allow them to proportion blame on somebody. I feel for the family in New Zealand as Thailand deals with wrong doings in a strange way but its their way. If you complain or debate something you are the one bringing the bad karma and its true they find it hard to admit blame becuase they do not like feeling bad. RIP all those that died Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jocko Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 I agree what you say about trying to discuss issue with your Thai wife and friend I have tird many times to talk about topical things that happen here to no avail you can't get through I end up gettin angry so now I don't bother it's just another thing we have to accept to have a life here I don't want Thailand to be the same as my country but there is some changes that would improve Thailand big time. RIP to all that died and I hope there Families get some satisfaction from this investigation . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balo Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 (edited) The Norwegian media showing interest in the old case again where the Norwegian girl Michelle Berghein died . Her mother are now sure that the insect chemicals killed her daughter. Link to VG News Edited May 12, 2011 by balo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratcliffe Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 maybe its time we organised a picket line and told people that are thinking of checking in just whats been goin on im sure they are still getting a few guests that have no idea what danger there in I'll come and join, I'm well up for telling any unsuspecting guest the risks involved at 'DI'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatsupdoc Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 The Chiangmai governor has no credibility at all. Not only is he not elected according democratic rules, this person went out of his way to let everyone believe the deaths were natural. He is in no position to take the lead. Unfortunately all politicians are camera horny and have no shame. Although they made themselves completely ridiculous one day, they claim the high ground the next day. Just as the governor the Chiangmai police has precisely the same problem. The governor is probably a family friend of the owners of the hotel, so he's hardly likely to rock the boat.... Why give statements about the governor when you have no clue at all who he is, what he does, what friends he has etcetera??? The limited information I have heard about him suggests he is quite capable and professional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennalder Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 A New Zealand media report linking the hotel to Carter's death was not true, he said. Their charge that a chemical bug spray the hotel used might have caused her death was not correct. The trouble with people lying and trying to cover up is they sometimes deny something that is their best chance at saving face. Really, Management and Governor, you probably should have said "yes it was the bug spray". Here's why. If an unlikely event occurred what probability must it have before it is mere coincidence, and at what level of probability does it become absurd to call it a coincidence? If I toss a coin and it comes up heads all 7 times I would call it a coincidence. Probability is (1/2)^7 or 1 in 128. Okay lets for argument sake say anything of 1 in 1000 or less is coincidence. (If it comes up heads 10 times in a row, I want to see the other side of the coin. 1 chance in 1024) How many people stay in the hotel per month? 1,000? 2,000? Lets be generous and say 7,000 or about 233 per night. So in this month you would have had a 1 in 1000 chance of dying. Now, if you were staying in any GH in any given month what are your chances of dying? Let's hope it isn't as high as 1 in 1000, but if it is and Chiang Mai has 50,000 tourists checked into GH's per month then we would expect 50 deaths per month! That's not the case (I hope), so once again I am being generous. Given that death rate, the chances of just 2 deaths in a month is in the neighborhood of 1 in a million, and 3 deaths is 1 in 10^9 or 1 in a billion by some nomenclature. That's just for 3. Plus if you narrow down the circumstances of death to just those who either woke up with fresh symptoms or died in their sleep the odds should go up astronomically. This eliminates accidents, heart attacks climbing stairs etc. Well beyond the realm of coincidence Mr Mayor. I know I had to make some assumptions and no doubt made some mistakes, it has been a long time since I took probability theory, but in principle the argument is probably fairly sound. I'm sure someone with a better grasp of probability theory can rework this argument and come up with different figures. Go for it. Ultimately, I think you will be forced to conclude one of the following: 1. Your chances of dying when you check into the Downtown Inn are high every time, or: 2. There is no coincidence. Take your pick. To suggest coincidence is an insult to our intelligence, and it should be to even those who suggest it. I don't know how to calculate the odds on that. I want to see the other side of this coin. (Maybe it was the pesticide.) Which, in a roundabout way, reminds me of the joke after the O.J. Simpson acquittal. What did he say to his attorneys after the verdict was read? "I guess I didn't do it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swerver Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Guilt Culture vs Shame Culture I have followed the details of this story as they have happened and i spoke to my Thai wife and a few Thai people about it. In their own sweet way the severity of what happened and the understanding to find the answer does not sink in as i try to form a deeper understanding with them. Also i feel the collectivist thinking does not allow them to proportion blame on somebody. I feel for the family in New Zealand as Thailand deals with wrong doings in a strange way but its their way. If you complain or debate something you are the one bringing the bad karma and its true they find it hard to admit blame becuase they do not like feeling bad. RIP all those that died Guilt Culture vs. Shame Culture You explain it the way it is with the locals Three months ago I gave the housekeeping lady – well educated – a ½-liter bottle floor mopping liquid to put a couple bottle caps full in the bucket of 3-liter water to mop the floor. On the bottle everything is in Thai - but locals are no different than farang, they refuse to read instruction-, operation-, and maintenance-manuals. I told the housekeeping lady to use this liquid one-time every 2-months. The chemical in the bottle eliminates crawling insects (ants, cockroaches, etc.) and after 2months it is not effective anymore, so then mop the floor again with this in the mop-water. This bottle will last a long time. Understand? Yes. Three (3) months down the road the other day she asked me for one more bottle because the other bottle is EMPTY. It turns out she mopped the floor twice a week with this crawling insect’s repellant chemical in the mop-water. Now, this chemical will not kill a human, but I wouldn’t follow the Chang Mai governor’s advice to take a spoon full of the stuff, I will leave that experiment up to him. I went over the procedure again with her and showed her on the bottle what it says in Thai. I’m sure you know the result, she now since I told her she and the others in the housekeeping group all have the heehaw. Or is it better said, they are all pissed off with me because I’m wrong bringing their stupidity to their attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farang0tang Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 2pm update from the Governor? Anybody? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaka Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 What a moron.I guess his experts failed to tell him that some thing are respirated, while others are absorbed through the skin or mucous membranes, others orally. Be nice to have a farang doc explain the horse manure that seems to blow out of these peoples mouths. This is getting boring. It depends on the toxicity of the compound. If relatively non toxic for humans ( I think it is) then,by whatever route into the bloodstream, a large amount is needed. Since there are no data that I know of for toxicity in humans, animal tests suggest a large amount- 5-40 grams is needed for a 50% chance of dying ( LD50).Accidental inhalation/ingestion/ absorption through the skin of such a large amount is unlikely. In addition, no traces were found at autopsy. /Quote/"No traces were found at atutopsy."/Unquote/ Eeerrr, the autopsies were performed here in Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khaowong1 Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Maybe the mayor can prove this by taking a spoonful during the press conference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 The Chiangmai governor has no credibility at all. Not only is he not elected according democratic rules, this person went out of his way to let everyone believe the deaths were natural. He is in no position to take the lead. Unfortunately all politicians are camera horny and have no shame. Although they made themselves completely ridiculous one day, they claim the high ground the next day. Just as the governor the Chiangmai police has precisely the same problem. Provincial governors are appointed by the Interior Ministry and you can be sure that Chiang Mai is a fairly plum job that must have cost him a pretty penny under the table. Think of him more as an investor who has bought into a limited life concession and needs to maximise his returns before his term ends or he gets the boot and is transferred to the sticks or an inactive position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webfact Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 please continue: Press conference: Exact cause of Chiang Mai hotel deaths may be impossible to find: Health Official Follow this link: //CLOSED// Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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