Buying A House

[Jinxy1128]

I'm buying a house in east pattaya and registering it in my thai girlfriends name. Where does this take place and what % of transfer tax do we pay ?

[TheWalkingMan]

Wait for it... wait for it...

Shouldn't it read... I am giving my girlfriend a house...

Also, if she is getting a free house, how come she is not doing the leg work? At least make her run around and take care of the paperwork. Other than paying, there is really no need for you to be involved.

TheWalkingMan

[Darrel]

Just one bit of advice: I'm sure that your girl is a wonderful person and I hope that you will have many happy years together, but please dont invest any money in any property here that you cant afford to lose. This applies in spades to houses/land which can never be in your name.

There are very many threads in here about farangs who have lost large sums on property in Thailand, following breakups in relationships or in-law intervention.

[LennyW]

The land office ....... here http://maps.google.c...d90e34574cd6d9d

Once registered in your girlfriends name you should get her to grant you an Usufruct against the property, do this as long as she is still your GF and not when she is your wife (do at the same time at the land office), this will give you the right to inhabit/use the property for your lifetime.

From BM Stgrhe....

There are four items:

1. Transfer fee = 2% of the registered value of the property

2. Stamp duty = 0.5% of registered value. Only payable if exempt from business tax

3. Withholding tax = 1% of the appraised value of the property

4. Business tax = 3.3% of the appraised value of the property if selling within 5 years. This applies to both individuals and companies

The transfer fee is the only one that normally should be payed by the buyer. The stamp duty and the taxes should be carried by the seller.

[FarangBuddha]

The land office ....... here http://maps.google.c...d90e34574cd6d9d

Once registered in your girlfriends name you should get her to grant you an Usufruct against the property, do this as long as she is still your GF and not when she is your wife (do at the same time at the land office), this will give you the right to inhabit/use the property for your lifetime.

From BM Stgrhe....

There are four items:

1. Transfer fee = 2% of the registered value of the property

2. Stamp duty = 0.5% of registered value. Only payable if exempt from business tax

3. Withholding tax = 1% of the appraised value of the property

4. Business tax = 3.3% of the appraised value of the property if selling within 5 years. This applies to both individuals and companies

The transfer fee is the only one that normally should be payed by the buyer. The stamp duty and the taxes should be carried by the seller.

Wow someone actually answered the op's question Of course, only after the obligatory non-responsive posts from battered and bruised expats

[Michaelaway]

The land office ....... here http://maps.google.c...d90e34574cd6d9d

Once registered in your girlfriends name you should get her to grant you an Usufruct against the property, do this as long as she is still your GF and not when she is your wife (do at the same time at the land office), this will give you the right to inhabit/use the property for your lifetime.

From BM Stgrhe....

There are four items:

1. Transfer fee = 2% of the registered value of the property

2. Stamp duty = 0.5% of registered value. Only payable if exempt from business tax

3. Withholding tax = 1% of the appraised value of the property

4. Business tax = 3.3% of the appraised value of the property if selling within 5 years. This applies to both individuals and companies

The transfer fee is the only one that normally should be payed by the buyer. The stamp duty and the taxes should be carried by the seller.

Wow someone actually answered the op's question Of course, only after the obligatory non-responsive posts from battered and bruised expats

Wow is right! And good information, too, especially the usufruct!

[Jinxy1128]

Thank-you LennyW for all the information. Whats with the other guys,,,

Edited May 22, 2011 by Rimmer
Flame removed

[Thailaw]

...... Whats with the other guys,,, these half-wits should really get a life.

The posters cautioning of the obvious problem looming for the OP aren't (necessarily) "battered or bruised", Just perhaps informed and trying to pass off some of that information/caution before it is too late. From a thread currently running in the Real Estate subforum:

"Hello everyone . . , short story I was with thai girlfriend for 4 years i bought a 10 million baht house and put both the house and land under her name by the way we were not married and there are no kids involved . . . i then took out a 30 year lease between me and her, any way I understand i have broken the law under thailands penal code which makes it illegal to use a Nominee to purchase a property and buy land. We have now split up and I want to sell the house the princess is not playing ball . as stated earlier I have been reading up on thai law . I can prove 100% that the money used to purchase the property was mine and was sent from the UK to the developers bank account the proof is called the Foreign Exchange transaction Form. . . .I will be summoned to court to give an account of what has happend the I will be given 12 months to sell the property the land office will retain 5% of the value of the sale and basically she will get nothing. Apparantly there are literally hundreds of cases like mine going through the courts now in Phuket alone this does not surprise me as many stupid people like me have put land and house under a thai princesses name " (emphasis added)

Who is the half-wit? By the way, if you decide to go through with the transaction as described, there are much better ways to protect your financial interest than a usufruct. That would give you the right to live in the house, but no right to sell it or to recover your investment. Consult a lawyer if you have any desire to protect your money. If not, don't look for sympathy here when the relationship goes bust and she kicks you out of "your" house.

[Naam]

Who is the half-wit?

the half-wit² is the one who "understands" that he broke the law.

I understand i have broken the law under thailands penal code which makes it illegal to use a Nominee to purchase a property and buy land.

giving money to a thai lady to buy land and a house in her name and then getting a 30Y lease is neither a punishable crime nor a "nominee" case. it is perfectly legal!

[dandare11]

Who is the half-wit?

the half-wit² is the one who "understands" that he broke the law.

I understand i have broken the law under thailands penal code which makes it illegal to use a Nominee to purchase a property and buy land.

giving money to a thai lady to buy land and a house in her name and then getting a 30Y lease is neither a punishable crime nor a "nominee" case. it is perfectly legal!

Yes but you would have to be certfiable in the broadest sense of the word complete with a straight jacket and muttering gugga gugga and things like that

[thrilled]

Guy's just because you've been burned in the past doesn't mean it happens to all of us.

When someone ask A question ya shouldn't put your 2 cents in from the peanut gallery.Ya should just answer his question

straight up.

[Darrel]

Guy's just because you've been burned in the past doesn't mean it happens to all of us.

In 30+ years of visiting and living in SE Asia I have never lost more than loose change from my pocket. I've certainly never been burned. I consider myself both lucky and prudent.

However I have seen myriad people who have been burned, and it seems reasonable to me to take the trouble just to point out a potential pitfall to someone who may not have considered it.

I suppose you wouldnt take the trouble to warn a blind man that he was walking towards a hole either?

[electrozebra]

Guy's just because you've been burned in the past doesn't mean it happens to all of us.

In 30+ years of visiting and living in SE Asia I have never lost more than loose change from my pocket. I've certainly never been burned. I consider myself both lucky and prudent.

However I have seen myriad people who have been burned, and it seems reasonable to me to take the trouble just to point out a potential pitfall to someone who may not have considered it.

I suppose you wouldnt take the trouble to warn a blind man that he was walking towards a hole either?

Agreed.

You cannot own the land, so why bother to get burnt?

Someone needs to take this OP by the hand and show him that the blindness of love can make us do stupid things.

Those of us burned or almost burned have the experience of that situation. Many like me have had near escapes in that respect but thanks to the advice here on TV,., I learned before I plunged..

As a Thai lawyer said to me, "you give today and they can be gone tomorrow."

Remember that before you knock those that really understand the ways here.!!

[kdc1899]

I know a fair amount of rich folks ( new rich and old money ) and I can't recall anyone buying their girlfriend a house. I know one gal who bought her boyfriend a car.

Dude

do you realize how many soapies, rounds of golf, short times, scuba trips, long times, beer, rent, soapies..........

You could enjoy for the price of a house?

I don't know of any parent buying their kid a house.

[kdc1899]

oops

double

Edited May 22, 2011 by kdc1899

[kdc1899]

Guy's just because you've been burned in the past doesn't mean it happens to all of us.

When someone ask A question ya shouldn't put your 2 cents in from the peanut gallery.Ya should just answer his question

straight up.

If a drunk guy asks me for directions to another bar I don't answer his question; I take the keys to his car away from him.

Straight up

[Naam]

Who is the half-wit?

the half-wit² is the one who "understands" that he broke the law.

I understand i have broken the law under thailands penal code which makes it illegal to use a Nominee to purchase a property and buy land.

giving money to a thai lady to buy land and a house in her name and then getting a 30Y lease is neither a punishable crime nor a "nominee" case. it is perfectly legal!

Yes but you would have to be certfiable in the broadest sense of the word complete with a straight jacket and muttering gugga gugga and things like that

that's besides the point which is "illegal or not".

[Langsuan Man]

Here let's just let the OP read some horror stories on his own, not influenced by those battered or bruised

[TheWalkingMan]

I still would like to know why the babe is not doing any of the running around to find out about the transfer tax and so on. Nice for you to gift her a house, but at least make her work her brain a day or two by finding about the paperwork/tax requirements.

Don't tell me that you don't believe that she has enough brain power to find this stuff out for herself

TheWalkingMan

[dandare11]

Yes but you would have to be certfiable in the broadest sense of the word complete with a straight jacket and muttering gugga gugga and things like that

that's besides the point which is "illegal or not".

No a lawyer would find it comparatively easy to show that the OP was operating in a deranged capacity,thus making any purchase under the terms the OP was describing as under undue stress,,hoodwinking, being cheated ,ignorant of the most fundamental facts here in Thailand unlawful.

[ESB7]

Wait for it... wait for it...

Shouldn't it read... I am giving my girlfriend a house...

Also, if she is getting a free house, how come she is not doing the leg work? At least make her run around and take care of the paperwork. Other than paying, there is really no need for you to be involved.

TheWalkingMan

Not everyone is an old balding barfly without any money that marries the first bar girl he falls in love with....there are many many happy endings but obviously from your own personal experiences you judge everybody on your own stupidity

[soihok]

I know a fair amount of rich folks ( new rich and old money ) and I can't recall anyone buying their girlfriend a house. I know one gal who bought her boyfriend a car.

Dude

do you realize how many soapies, rounds of golf, short times, scuba trips, long times, beer, rent, soapies..........

You could enjoy for the price of a house?

I don't know of any parent buying their kid a house.

Well you do now and I ain't rich.

More of building rather than buying though.

[Thailaw]

Who is the half-wit?

the half-wit² is the one who "understands" that he broke the law.

I understand i have broken the law under thailands penal code which makes it illegal to use a Nominee to purchase a property and buy land.

giving money to a thai lady to buy land and a house in her name and then getting a 30Y lease is neither a punishable crime nor a "nominee" case. it is perfectly legal!

Your post is absolutely correct, and absolutely worthless! You miss entirely the key element of "intent" in effecting the other OP's ("OOP") transaction. And he has a better graps of the involved Thai law than your post demonstrates. You have just kissed the OOP's B10 million good-bye by arguing that the B10 million/house was a gift to the Thai g/f (she will thank you sincerely), and that she is the legal and intended owner of the house, subject only to a 30 year lease -- all totally legal. BUT, obviously, he wants the house sold and the proceeds to come to him (not her), and to do that he must claim (i.e., make the argument to a Thai court) that she was a vehicle/conduit (ah, "nominee", that's the word) holder of the registered title to the land, and he was the actual intended "owner", which is illegal under Thai law. A real world example from www.siamforsale.com (a Thai law firm on Koh Samui) may help to clear the mental cloud:

"Land registration in a Thai girlfriend's nameA FOREIGNER bought land and had title deed issued in Thai girlfriend's name. Later, the girlfriend applied for a mortgage and tried to use the land as collateral, but the Land office refused to allow this because she did not submit the original title deed with her application.

The Thai girlfriend claimed that the foreigner had the possession of the land title deed and applied for a replacement land title deed to be issued to replace the original deed. The foreigner requested the Land Office not to issue a replacement title deed.

The Land Department considered both applications and delivered the following response; The foreigner's application for the Land Office to deny issue to Thai girlfriend of a replacement title deed is believed to express his intention to prevent her from distributing, selling or transferring the land, or using it to borrow money or as collateral for debt repayment. In this case it must be deemed that the Thai girlfriend has acquired the land under section 96 of the Land Code, but as the owner in place of an alien, which contravenes section 113 of the Code.

In doing so she has provided false information to government officers, which contravenes section 137 of the Penal Code, making her liable, if found guilty, to a term of up to six months in jail or a fine of 1,000 baht, or both. She has also contravened section 267 of the Penal Code, which carries a penalty of up to three years in jail and/or a fine of 6,000 baht. (read Penal Code).

The foreigner has acquired land by means that contravene section 86 of the Land Code, and so has committed an offense aiding and abetting the commission of an offense under section 111 of the Land Code, which carries a penalty of two-thirds of that of the offense itself.

The Land Department ordered the local Land Office to file a complaint with the Inquiry Officer (the relevant legal authority) and take legal steps against both the foreigner and the Thai girlfriend.

The Land Office was also ordered to inform the foreigner that he must dispose of the land within one year of receiving official notice to do so. If the foreigner fails to dispose of the land within the time given, the Director-General of the Land Department is authorized to dispose of the land and retain a fee of 5% of the sale price before any deductions or taxes."

This is the case (or one of the cases), to which I expect the OOP is referring (he may even be using this law firm, I have no idea). In the eyes of the Land Department officials, the Thai g/f is a "nominee" owner of the land in Thailand. I do not think that the OOP's case is a slam dunk, and if the Water Boy was his lawyer he would have lost already (but probably has a good malpractice claim againt his "lawyer"). As I said, the lease or usufruct is a poor/sloppy way to protect your (the payor's) interest in the Thai property -- there are better ways. The OOP (and many others) chose this method, not me. The standard Thai method of forming a company is also rather poor, but that is a story for another thread. Apparently, there are more half-wits running around here than the OP (or I) thought.

Apologies in advance for taking this thread in an unintended direction.

Edited May 23, 2011 by Thailaw

[TheWalkingMan]

Wait for it... wait for it...

Shouldn't it read... I am giving my girlfriend a house...

Also, if she is getting a free house, how come she is not doing the leg work? At least make her run around and take care of the paperwork. Other than paying, there is really no need for you to be involved.

TheWalkingMan

Not everyone is an old balding barfly without any money that marries the first bar girl he falls in love with....there are many many happy endings but obviously from your own personal experiences you judge everybody on your own stupidity

Thanks for the gentle nudge and I do have all of my hair an most of my teeth. :jap:

Perhaps you can answer why it is not a good idea for her to do her own leg work? I mean, should not she at least walk half way by saying... hey honey, you provide the cash and I will get off my backside (for a day or two), dig up all the paperwork and explain things to you. Is that really too much to ask of someone who is receiving a free house?

I am correct, the proper quote is "I am giving my girlfriend a house." Tell me what is incorrect with that statement. Other than laying out the cash, what other involvement is needed by the gent.

Wait... aren't you a property hustler in Pattaya? Apologies if the word "hustler" is a poor descriptive term, but you are in sales.

TheWalkingMan

[PattayaParent]

I know a fair amount of rich folks ( new rich and old money ) and I can't recall anyone buying their girlfriend a house. I know one gal who bought her boyfriend a car.

Dude

do you realize how many soapies, rounds of golf, short times, scuba trips, long times, beer, rent, soapies..........

You could enjoy for the price of a house?

I don't know of any parent buying their kid a house.

Well you do now and I ain't rich.

More of building rather than buying though.

Now he knows 2.

[FarangBuddha]

Guy's just because you've been burned in the past doesn't mean it happens to all of us.

In 30+ years of visiting and living in SE Asia I have never lost more than loose change from my pocket. I've certainly never been burned. I consider myself both lucky and prudent.

However I have seen myriad people who have been burned, and it seems reasonable to me to take the trouble just to point out a potential pitfall to someone who may not have considered it.

I suppose you wouldnt take the trouble to warn a blind man that he was walking towards a hole either?

Agree with both of you. However, to your point, these stories and warnings have been repeated ad-nauseum on this forum, in the papers, books, on the internet, basically everywhere so the information is readily available to anyone who makes even a minimal effort to inform himself before making such a major purchase.

And the implied assumption from the "battered" and "bruised" crowd is that Thai women are all gold-diggers and not to be trusted as as many of us know FROM EXPERIENCE that this is not the case. So yes, just answer the question and leave the pontificating for the man next to you on the bar-stool

Edited May 23, 2011 by FarangBuddha

[FarangBuddha]

I know a fair amount of rich folks ( new rich and old money ) and I can't recall anyone buying their girlfriend a house. I know one gal who bought her boyfriend a car.

Dude

do you realize how many soapies, rounds of golf, short times, scuba trips, long times, beer, rent, soapies..........

You could enjoy for the price of a house?

I don't know of any parent buying their kid a house.

Some of us can afford to get married, buy a car, buy a house in the wife's name, AND do all the things you describe...so have the best of both worlds

But the cardinal rule still applies...don't put in more money than you can afford to lose if you had to walk away from it all tomorrow. This amount certainly varies by one's financial position.

Edited May 23, 2011 by FarangBuddha

[Thailaw]

............ So yes, just answer the question and leave the pontificating for the man next to you on the bar-stool

Ands this from the guy that in a recent thread where the OP asks for recommendations of where to take his toddler for an outing in the Pattaya area feels compelled to "answer the question" with:

"Pattaya is Pattaya...Bang Saen is Bang Saen both ate fun in their own way and appeal to different demographics. No need to have two of either within 30 minutes drive of the other.

This post has been edited by FarangBuddha: 2011-05-12 05:53:08"

Physician heal thyself.........

And the point being made by the "battered and bruised" has nothing to do with Thai women or their perceived interest in gold. Relationships come, and relationships go, and when they go, it's every man (and woman) for themselves -- here in Thailand and everywhere else. The love, feelings and concern that they may have once felt is a thing of the past. As Rod Stewart said "I am never getting married agian, I am just going to find a woman I don't like and give her a house". The house was put in the woman's name to circumvent a legal prohibition, not because of the love and the desire to gift her a house. If (when) the relationship ends, that act will have put her in a very advantageous legal and (perhaps) financial position. If the foreign man doesn't care, fine, but he should clearly understand that is what he is doing. Next.............

Edited May 23, 2011 by Thailaw

[Naam]

Who is the half-wit?

the half-wit² is the one who "understands" that he broke the law.

I understand i have broken the law under thailands penal code which makes it illegal to use a Nominee to purchase a property and buy land.

giving money to a thai lady to buy land and a house in her name and then getting a 30Y lease is neither a punishable crime nor a "nominee" case. it is perfectly legal!

Your post is absolutely correct, and absolutely worthless! You miss entirely the key element of "intent" in effecting the other OP's ("OOP") transaction. And he has a better graps of the involved Thai law than your post demonstrates. You have just kissed the OOP's B10 million good-bye by arguing that the B10 million/house was a gift to the Thai g/f (she will thank you sincerely), and that she is the legal and intended owner of the house, subject only to a 30 year lease -- all totally legal. BUT, obviously, he wants the house sold and the proceeds to come to him (not her), and to do that he must claim (i.e., make the argument to a Thai court) that she was a vehicle/conduit (ah, "nominee", that's the word) holder of the registered title to the land, and he was the actual intended "owner", which is illegal under Thai law. A real world example from www.siamforsale.com (a Thai law firm on Koh Samui) may help to clear the mental cloud:

"Land registration in a Thai girlfriend's nameA FOREIGNER bought land and had title deed issued in Thai girlfriend's name. Later, the girlfriend applied for a mortgage and tried to use the land as collateral, but the Land office refused to allow this because she did not submit the original title deed with her application.

The Thai girlfriend claimed that the foreigner had the possession of the land title deed and applied for a replacement land title deed to be issued to replace the original deed. The foreigner requested the Land Office not to issue a replacement title deed.

The Land Department considered both applications and delivered the following response; The foreigner's application for the Land Office to deny issue to Thai girlfriend of a replacement title deed is believed to express his intention to prevent her from distributing, selling or transferring the land, or using it to borrow money or as collateral for debt repayment. In this case it must be deemed that the Thai girlfriend has acquired the land under section 96 of the Land Code, but as the owner in place of an alien, which contravenes section 113 of the Code.

In doing so she has provided false information to government officers, which contravenes section 137 of the Penal Code, making her liable, if found guilty, to a term of up to six months in jail or a fine of 1,000 baht, or both. She has also contravened section 267 of the Penal Code, which carries a penalty of up to three years in jail and/or a fine of 6,000 baht. (read Penal Code).

The foreigner has acquired land by means that contravene section 86 of the Land Code, and so has committed an offense aiding and abetting the commission of an offense under section 111 of the Land Code, which carries a penalty of two-thirds of that of the offense itself.

The Land Department ordered the local Land Office to file a complaint with the Inquiry Officer (the relevant legal authority) and take legal steps against both the foreigner and the Thai girlfriend.

The Land Office was also ordered to inform the foreigner that he must dispose of the land within one year of receiving official notice to do so. If the foreigner fails to dispose of the land within the time given, the Director-General of the Land Department is authorized to dispose of the land and retain a fee of 5% of the sale price before any deductions or taxes."

This is the case (or one of the cases), to which I expect the OOP is referring (he may even be using this law firm, I have no idea). In the eyes of the Land Department officials, the Thai g/f is a "nominee" owner of the land in Thailand. I do not think that the OOP's case is a slam dunk, and if the Water Boy was his lawyer he would have lost already (but probably has a good malpractice claim againt his "lawyer"). As I said, the lease or usufruct is a poor/sloppy way to protect your (the payor's) interest in the Thai property -- there are better ways. The OOP (and many others) chose this method, not me. The standard Thai method of forming a company is also rather poor, but that is a story for another thread. Apparently, there are more half-wits running around here than the OP (or I) thought.

Apologies in advance for taking this thread in an unintended direction.

i couldn't care less for any "key note". my point was that the OP did not act in any illegal way. the quoted case and ruling in Samui does not apply to the OP because initially (as opposed to Samui) he had a perfectly legal 30Y lease.

if however the OP is stupid enough to admit that it was indeed his intention from the beginning to use his girlfriend as a nominee than he should get a good lawyer to advise him what "version" to present or face the music.

[FarangBuddha]

............ So yes, just answer the question and leave the pontificating for the man next to you on the bar-stool

Ands this from the guy that in a recent thread where the OP asks for recommendations of where to take his toddler for an outing in the Pattaya area feels compelled to "answer the question" with:

"Pattaya is Pattaya...Bang Saen is Bang Saen both ate fun in their own way and appeal to different demographics. No need to have two of either within 30 minutes drive of the other.

This post has been edited by FarangBuddha: 2011-05-12 05:53:08"

Physician heal thyself.........

And the point being made by the "battered and bruised" has nothing to do with Thai women or their perceived interest in gold. Relationships come, and relationships go, and when they go, it's every man (and woman) for themselves -- here in Thailand and everywhere else. The love, feelings and concern that they may have once felt is a thing of the past. As Rod Stewart said "I am never getting married agian, I am just going to find a woman I don't like and give her a house". The house was put in the woman's name to circumvent a legal prohibition, not because of the love and the desire to gift her a house. If (when) the relationship ends, that act will have put her in a very advantageous legal and (perhaps) financial position. If the foreign man doesn't care, fine, but he should clearly understand that is what he is doing. Next.............

I think most people know that when they buy something that comes with a formal title/ownership document, and you put it in someone else's name, it's often difficult or impossible to get it back.