Thaksin Says Sister May Not Become PM Even If Pheu Thai Wins

[jdinasia]

Not at all, I said, "not much difference between 30 Baht and zero Baht" ..........Abhisit took Thaksin's 30 Baht charge and reduced it to zero Baht.

In simple English, he accepted and then extended further Thaksin's original initiative. Is that clear enough?

You are making some strange arguments. There are people arguing that the 40 baht not covered for a student uniform (brought into play by one of the red hecklers) is just too much ... but now you say there is not really a difference between 30 baht and zero baht.... The issue of altering a uniform once -- versus the family's regular 30 baht visits to the hospital/dr/OPD would seem to weigh out on the side of the free medicine. Anecdotal issues aside ... free healthcare even though it aint the BEST isn't bad at all. My bill this week from Suan Dok (CMU hospital) including 2 months of three different maintenance meds ----- 0 Baht. Same meds at Sri Pat (private hospital section of CMU) 2900 Baht .... So, yeah .. I'd say the free education system AND the universal free medical care still need some work but are, in practice, good and getting better.

If your partner was registered with social security she would be eligible to go to the hospital free (I am assuming she is as she is a dressmaker ...) That covers her locally AND elsewhere if the needed medical support is not available locally. It would not cover OPD treatment in other provinces.

[Buchholz]

What is most annoying about this farce is it takes the heat off Abhisit, he can continue being an ineffectual puppet. Talk about free healthcare, free education, in Bangkok perhaps but not in my neighbourhood.

and of course the elite.

I live in chiang mai(which is mostly anti democrats) and my kids go to a public school. When thaksin was in office i paid approximatley 1200 baht per kid tuition plus lunch plus school uniform plus school books plus "extra" fees. Now under abhisit I pay nothing for tuition nothing for books no "extra" fees and they give me 555 baht per kid to buy uniforms. When i take them to the local hospital instead of the private hospital the visit is free. I only had to show their thai birth certificate. There are many poor kids going to the same school and hospital that my kids go to and they are all going for free.

And another one-liner rhetoric gets dispelled by actual anecdotal occurrences.

Same experience here, also outside Bangkok.

.

You guys are educated, know your rights, know how to use the system. in my village kids often don't go to school because their parents don't have the fare. My partner is a dressmaker, many of her customers are school kids, having uniforms modified and repaired, or school logos etc embroidered on shirts and blouses. Who gives you 555 Baht per kid, which official, do tell me so i can tell them. As to free books, I assume supplied by the school, but what if the school does not have them? Why do I give my local school free photocopies of pages?

I'm sorry to hear of your local problems with the system. As it is new, it has shortcomings here and there and, as said, it's usually because of local corruption in the administration of the program.

As an educated person yourself, I would encourage you to stand up for those around you that lack the skills you possess. The first thing I would do is contact the Ministry of Education. They have established a hotline specifically to deal with issues surrounding problems encountered with the program.

On their behalf, contact phone number 1579. Do so with a Thai to explain to the authorities what problems you are having locally.

Really, if you had given it much thought, the above is rather logical plan you could have begun on your own with a few moments of searching.

.

[samurai]

What is most annoying about this farce is it takes the heat off Abhisit, he can continue being an ineffectual puppet. Talk about free healthcare, free education, in Bangkok perhaps but not in my neighbourhood.

and of course the elite.

I live in chiang mai(which is mostly anti democrats) and my kids go to a public school. When thaksin was in office i paid approximatley 1200 baht per kid tuition plus lunch plus school uniform plus school books plus "extra" fees. Now under abhisit I pay nothing for tuition nothing for books no "extra" fees and they give me 555 baht per kid to buy uniforms. When i take them to the local hospital instead of the private hospital the visit is free. I only had to show their thai birth certificate. There are many poor kids going to the same school and hospital that my kids go to and they are all going for free.

And another one-liner rhetoric gets dispelled by actual anecdotal occurrences.

Same experience here, also outside Bangkok.

.

One line rhetoric, look who's talking

You guys are educated, know your rights, know how to use the system. in my village kids often don't go to school because their parents don't have the fare. My partner is a dressmaker, many of her customers are school kids, having uniforms modified and repaired, or school logos etc embroidered on shirts and blouses. Who gives you 555 Baht per kid, which official, do tell me so i can tell them. As to free books, I assume supplied by the school, but what if the school does not have them? Why do I give my local school free photocopies of pages?

here is another one line rhetorical repeat, " The only people he has helped is the middle class" You are the middle class, you know how to use (milk) the system.

Free hospital? Well not much difference between 30 Baht and zero Baht is there? Then again if you want quality you won't get it for zero Baht. My local immigration officer is diabetic, he buys his gliclazide from Malaysia, the local stuf from hospital is ineffective. My partner visits a public hospital in Bangkok once a month for medicines, she pays 500 Baht each visit.

Now give me another one line rhetorical reply

You can send a twitter or chat with Abhisit, he is a long-time user of social media. He use it to stay in contact with the people and maybe it helps.

[anterian]

Not at all, I said, "not much difference between 30 Baht and zero Baht" ..........Abhisit took Thaksin's 30 Baht charge and reduced it to zero Baht.

In simple English, he accepted and then extended further Thaksin's original initiative. Is that clear enough?

You are making some strange arguments. There are people arguing that the 40 baht not covered for a student uniform (brought into play by one of the red hecklers) is just too much ... but now you say there is not really a difference between 30 baht and zero baht.... The issue of altering a uniform once -- versus the family's regular 30 baht visits to the hospital/dr/OPD would seem to weigh out on the side of the free medicine. Anecdotal issues aside ... free healthcare even though it aint the BEST isn't bad at all. My bill this week from Suan Dok (CMU hospital) including 2 months of three different maintenance meds ----- 0 Baht. Same meds at Sri Pat (private hospital section of CMU) 2900 Baht .... So, yeah .. I'd say the free education system AND the universal free medical care still need some work but are, in practice, good and getting better.

If your partner was registered with social security she would be eligible to go to the hospital free (I am assuming she is as she is a dressmaker ...) That covers her locally AND elsewhere if the needed medical support is not available locally. It would not cover OPD treatment in other provinces.

You are rather making my point, one has to know the ropes to get the benefits. Yes my partner was told on her last visit (3 days ago), to ask her Obadur for some form to get free medicine. Yet this was the first time they have mentioned it in the 3 years she has been attending, and this was because I told her to ask.

I think she will need a housebook for this, no problem she has one, but many in my village do not. Some are squatters, others has used their housebook as security for loans.

So the system exists, but does not publicise itself. Whether this is intentional or just normal Thai efficiency I don't know.

As to school uniforms, I have asked what is the score here. It seems the government gives the money to the schools not the parents. The schools give the pupils uniforms, but the material is such poor quality that my partner is kept busy mending them. Sp parents who can afford it buy their own uniforms at Carrefour. I guess the schools are making a rake off, normal Thai practice.

I seem to be in a different Thailand to you

[ballpoint]

You are rather making my point, one has to know the ropes to get the benefits. Yes my partner was told on her last visit (3 days ago), to ask her Obadur for some form to get free medicine. Yet this was the first time they have mentioned it in the 3 years she has been attending, and this was because I told her to ask.

I think she will need a housebook for this, no problem she has one, but many in my village do not. Some are squatters, others has used their housebook as security for loans.

So the system exists, but does not publicise itself. Whether this is intentional or just normal Thai efficiency I don't know.

As to school uniforms, I have asked what is the score here. It seems the government gives the money to the schools not the parents. The schools give the pupils uniforms, but the material is such poor quality that my partner is kept busy mending them. Sp parents who can afford it buy their own uniforms at Carrefour. I guess the schools are making a rake off, normal Thai practice.

I seem to be in a different Thailand to you

One doesn't need to know the ropes, one has to live in an area where the local authorities are not taking a cut, ie. stealing from the residents. As you have continually posted that you live in a "red" area, I can see what your problem is.

[anterian]

You are rather making my point, one has to know the ropes to get the benefits. Yes my partner was told on her last visit (3 days ago), to ask her Obadur for some form to get free medicine. Yet this was the first time they have mentioned it in the 3 years she has been attending, and this was because I told her to ask.

I think she will need a housebook for this, no problem she has one, but many in my village do not. Some are squatters, others has used their housebook as security for loans.

So the system exists, but does not publicise itself. Whether this is intentional or just normal Thai efficiency I don't know.

As to school uniforms, I have asked what is the score here. It seems the government gives the money to the schools not the parents. The schools give the pupils uniforms, but the material is such poor quality that my partner is kept busy mending them. Sp parents who can afford it buy their own uniforms at Carrefour. I guess the schools are making a rake off, normal Thai practice.

I seem to be in a different Thailand to you

One doesn't need to know the ropes, one has to live in an area where the local authorities are not taking a cut, ie. stealing from the residents. As you have continually posted that you live in a "red" area, I can see what your problem is.

This is not a Red issue so don't try to make it one. My area is pretty 50:50 when it comes to shirt colour. Buchholz made a useful suggestion, I will look further into the matter, get some facts not just hearsay. If the facts confirm the hearsay I will make waves, but carefully. Making waves in Thailand is dangerous.

[jdinasia]

Not at all, I said, "not much difference between 30 Baht and zero Baht" ..........Abhisit took Thaksin's 30 Baht charge and reduced it to zero Baht.

In simple English, he accepted and then extended further Thaksin's original initiative. Is that clear enough?

You are making some strange arguments. There are people arguing that the 40 baht not covered for a student uniform (brought into play by one of the red hecklers) is just too much ... but now you say there is not really a difference between 30 baht and zero baht.... The issue of altering a uniform once -- versus the family's regular 30 baht visits to the hospital/dr/OPD would seem to weigh out on the side of the free medicine. Anecdotal issues aside ... free healthcare even though it aint the BEST isn't bad at all. My bill this week from Suan Dok (CMU hospital) including 2 months of three different maintenance meds ----- 0 Baht. Same meds at Sri Pat (private hospital section of CMU) 2900 Baht .... So, yeah .. I'd say the free education system AND the universal free medical care still need some work but are, in practice, good and getting better.

If your partner was registered with social security she would be eligible to go to the hospital free (I am assuming she is as she is a dressmaker ...) That covers her locally AND elsewhere if the needed medical support is not available locally. It would not cover OPD treatment in other provinces.

You are rather making my point, one has to know the ropes to get the benefits. Yes my partner was told on her last visit (3 days ago), to ask her Obadur for some form to get free medicine. Yet this was the first time they have mentioned it in the 3 years she has been attending, and this was because I told her to ask.

I think she will need a housebook for this, no problem she has one, but many in my village do not. Some are squatters, others has used their housebook as security for loans.

So the system exists, but does not publicise itself. Whether this is intentional or just normal Thai efficiency I don't know.

As to school uniforms, I have asked what is the score here. It seems the government gives the money to the schools not the parents. The schools give the pupils uniforms, but the material is such poor quality that my partner is kept busy mending them. Sp parents who can afford it buy their own uniforms at Carrefour. I guess the schools are making a rake off, normal Thai practice.

I seem to be in a different Thailand to you

'Fraid not .... I walked in to the ER a couple of weeks ago. Splitting headache. I had dangerously high BP (my normal is just at the top of the "moderate" range.) I showed my card and my DL. They spent over 20 minutes just staring into my right eye (looking for bleeds) and waiting for blood and urine results. They scheduled me a follow up appointment in a week and gave me Rx's. I took them to the window --- they told me how much. I showed them my card and DL again. They said "oops" Free. (They are not used to having farang that are covered under the universal plan I guess ...) At the follow up visit for the BP issue I spent a little while with the Senior Dr. who was officious and a bit abrupt. She told me to wait to see the internist who would handle my Rx's. She was great --- took a history, found out that I normally used SriPat (the private pay as you go section of CMU hospital) and who my Dr was there .. (this was 5May2011) and scheduled me in with him on 23May2011 ... I went downstairs .. wasn't asked for my card since it was an appointment ... Free.

Went to the appointment on 23May2011 ... saw the Dr ... was told I could NOT get one of my meds from the public hospital but they filled the three maintenance meds ... Free.

In 2 months when I run out of my other daily medication I will order it from BKK (The underlying issue is a GI disease .. the one med that isn't covered isn't generally accepted as a maintenance medication for the issue ... but it works )

All-in-all not only less issues than an HMO in the USA ... but also ... FREE.

I had nobody to walk me through this ... I do, however, read Thai. I assume your partner can read Thai also

PS --- I do believe that in the past you described where you live as "red" .... and yes if you are dealing with corruption issues that other people are not ... you may need to look at why. BTW ---- anywhere upcountry that is controlled by corrupt political machines might have the same issues ... Those issues appear absent in Chiang Mai.

Edit ---- FYI --- that ER visit was the very first time I had used the benefits .... no prior knowledge at all.

Edited May 26, 2011 by jdinasia

[473geo]

To be honest better to buy quality school wear, kids in my area are poor but the parents are proud to send the children to school very smart indeed. The 555 baht wouldn't even buy the shoes for most of them. But I'm sure it is well received in the poorer farang households.

Edited May 26, 2011 by 473geo

[samurai]

'Fraid not .... I walked in to the ER a couple of weeks ago. Splitting headache. I had dangerously high BP (my normal is just at the top of the "moderate" range.) I showed my card and my DL. They spent over 20 minutes just staring into my right eye (looking for bleeds) and waiting for blood and urine results. They scheduled me a follow up appointment in a week and gave me Rx's. I took them to the window --- they told me how much. I showed them my card and DL again. They said "oops" Free. (They are not used to having farang that are covered under the universal plan I guess ...) At the follow up visit for the BP issue I spent a little while with the Senior Dr. who was officious and a bit abrupt. She told me to wait to see the internist who would handle my Rx's. She was great --- took a history, found out that I normally used SriPat (the private pay as you go section of CMU hospital) and who my Dr was there .. (this was 5May2011) and scheduled me in with him on 23May2011 ... I went downstairs .. wasn't asked for my card since it was an appointment ... Free.

Went to the appointment on 23May2011 ... saw the Dr ... was told I could NOT get one of my meds from the public hospital but they filled the three maintenance meds ... Free.

In 2 months when I run out of my other daily medication I will order it from BKK (The underlying issue is a GI disease .. the one med that isn't covered isn't generally accepted as a maintenance medication for the issue ... but it works )

All-in-all not only less issues than an HMO in the USA ... but also ... FREE.

I had nobody to walk me through this ... I do, however, read Thai. I assume your partner can read Thai also

PS --- I do believe that in the past you described where you live as "red" .... and yes if you are dealing with corruption issues that other people are not ... you may need to look at why. BTW ---- anywhere upcountry that is controlled by corrupt political machines might have the same issues ... Those issues appear absent in Chiang Mai.

Edit ---- FYI --- that ER visit was the very first time I had used the benefits .... no prior knowledge at all.

Off topic here.

Maybe you can find help in the "Health, Body and Medicine" forum.

[anterian]

After yesterday's exchange of views, I asked around in the village. Not having kids of my own I had no direct experience of current educational initiatives. It seems that here the parents get 400 Baht per child plus a free uniform. But the uniforms are of such low quality that they cost a lot to maintain. In addition each blouse/shirt has to have the child's name and school logo embroidered on it. this embroidery normally costs 60 Baht, my partner does it for the locals at 30 Baht.

A major problem for the poorer families is transport, 20 Baht per day.

I am puzzled how jdinasia manages to get onto the free medical system, have you become a Thai citizen?

My partner was being charged 500 Baht per visit for medication because they knew she was living with a farang, I guess a variation on the double pricing system. She has now told them I have left so they told her to get the card for free meds.

So things are getting better, but in a rather haphazard, uncoordinated way. But this is globally normal with government initiatives.

I am a type 2 diabetic, but am fortunate in that being both British and a pensioner I get all my tests and medications for free, further my doctor knowing my involvement with Thailand is happy to prescribe me a 12 month supply.

[jdinasia]

I am puzzled how jdinasia manages to get onto the free medical system, have you become a Thai citizen?

I am a taxpayer.

[JurgenG]

You guys are educated, know your rights, know how to use the system. in my village kids often don't go to school because their parents don't have the fare. My partner is a dressmaker, many of her customers are school kids, having uniforms modified and repaired, or school logos etc embroidered on shirts and blouses. Who gives you 555 Baht per kid, which official, do tell me so i can tell them. As to free books, I assume supplied by the school, but what if the school does not have them? Why do I give my local school free photocopies of pages?

here is another one line rhetorical repeat, " The only people he has helped is the middle class" You are the middle class, you know how to use (milk) the system.

Free hospital? Well not much difference between 30 Baht and zero Baht is there? Then again if you want quality you won't get it for zero Baht. My local immigration officer is diabetic, he buys his gliclazide from Malaysia, the local stuf from hospital is ineffective. My partner visits a public hospital in Bangkok once a month for medicines, she pays 500 Baht each visit.

Now give me another one line rhetorical reply

So what you are saying is that Thaksins 30baht-scheme was useless?

Not at all, I said, "not much difference between 30 Baht and zero Baht" ..........Abhisit took Thaksin's 30 Baht charge and reduced it to zero Baht.

In simple English, he accepted and then extended further Thaksin's original initiative. Is that clear enough?

Thaksin's 30 Baht system (which was not his, but was his, depends what you want to prove and which side you're on) was a very bad thing because according to the democrat, it will bankrupt the health system, and in this case, and this case only, it was a Thaksin idea, because if it's a good thing, it can't be a Thaksin idea but somehow a democrat idea but if eventually it turns out to be a very bad thing then it will definitely be a Thaksin idea ...

Then, because at 30 bahts it's going to bankrupt the health system, Abhisit improved it and made it a "zero baht" system so it will be more profitable ????

I'm completely lost, can someone please help ?

Edited May 27, 2011 by JurgenG

[Pi Sek]

Any Thai or foreigner can use a social security card to get free health at the hospitals - they use it to fill out your patient registration. I think you can get it even just with the standard tax ID card. You have to register separately with each hopsital if you plan to use more than one.

A couple of times they have asked for money but I just say, "Isn't this included in the social security fund" - and they quickly say, "Awwww - yes, it's free."

[timekeeper]

You guys are educated, know your rights, know how to use the system. in my village kids often don't go to school because their parents don't have the fare. My partner is a dressmaker, many of her customers are school kids, having uniforms modified and repaired, or school logos etc embroidered on shirts and blouses. Who gives you 555 Baht per kid, which official, do tell me so i can tell them. As to free books, I assume supplied by the school, but what if the school does not have them? Why do I give my local school free photocopies of pages?

here is another one line rhetorical repeat, " The only people he has helped is the middle class" You are the middle class, you know how to use (milk) the system.

Free hospital? Well not much difference between 30 Baht and zero Baht is there? Then again if you want quality you won't get it for zero Baht. My local immigration officer is diabetic, he buys his gliclazide from Malaysia, the local stuf from hospital is ineffective. My partner visits a public hospital in Bangkok once a month for medicines, she pays 500 Baht each visit.

Now give me another one line rhetorical reply

So what you are saying is that Thaksins 30baht-scheme was useless?

Not at all, I said, "not much difference between 30 Baht and zero Baht" ..........Abhisit took Thaksin's 30 Baht charge and reduced it to zero Baht.

In simple English, he accepted and then extended further Thaksin's original initiative. Is that clear enough?

Thaksin's 30 Baht system (which was not his, but was his, depends what you want to prove and which side you're on) was a very bad thing because according to the democrat, it will bankrupt the health system, and in this case, and this case only, it was a Thaksin idea, because if it's a good thing, it can't be a Thaksin idea but somehow a democrat idea but if eventually it turns out to be a very bad thing then it will definitely be a Thaksin idea ...

Then, because at 30 bahts it's going to bankrupt the health system, Abhisit improved it and made it a "zero baht" system so it will be more profitable ????

I'm completely lost, can someone please help ?

yes i can

the 30 baht scheme was loaded down with administration fees

Abhisit and Korn looked at the books and worked out it was costing more to administrate than the 30 bahts it was bringing in

therefore by making it zero baht and getting rid of the admin/ registration teams etc a saving was achieved

[JurgenG]

^ So no more registration, no more administration, papers ... . You just show up at the hospital and they treat you for free , no question asked?

[Pi Sek]

Thaksin's 30 Baht system (which was not his, but was his, depends what you want to prove and which side you're on) was a very bad thing because according to the democrat, it will bankrupt the health system, and in this case, and this case only, it was a Thaksin idea, because if it's a good thing, it can't be a Thaksin idea but somehow a democrat idea but if eventually it turns out to be a very bad thing then it will definitely be a Thaksin idea ...

Then, because at 30 bahts it's going to bankrupt the health system, Abhisit improved it and made it a "zero baht" system so it will be more profitable ????

I'm completely lost, can someone please help ?

Is was his scheme because he launched it - but he launched it before the plan was sustainable (and it was therefore doomed to failure). Everyone knew this already, but Thaksin pushed it through anyway to support his populist agenda - he obviously didn't care that studies had shown that it would bankrupt public health. The Dems didn't push it through when it was proposed beforehand because it was shown to be doomed to failure. I think that's pretty clear, isn't it?

It was made free because it cost more than 30 Baht in administration to collect the 30 Baht medical fee. Therefore the scheme is more profitable now that it's free, because they don't have to spend the more-than-30-Baht to collect the 30 Baht.

Has that helped?

[timekeeper]

^ So no more registration, no more administration, papers ... . You just show up at the hospital and they treat you for free , no question asked?

the hospital does the registration now instead of an admin team

[timekeeper]

Thaksin's 30 Baht system (which was not his, but was his, depends what you want to prove and which side you're on) was a very bad thing because according to the democrat, it will bankrupt the health system, and in this case, and this case only, it was a Thaksin idea, because if it's a good thing, it can't be a Thaksin idea but somehow a democrat idea but if eventually it turns out to be a very bad thing then it will definitely be a Thaksin idea ...

Then, because at 30 bahts it's going to bankrupt the health system, Abhisit improved it and made it a "zero baht" system so it will be more profitable ????

I'm completely lost, can someone please help ?

Is was his scheme because he launched it - but he launched it before the plan was sustainable (and it was therefore doomed to failure). Everyone knew this already, but Thaksin pushed it through anyway to support his populist agenda - he obviously didn't care that studies had shown that it would bankrupt public health. The Dems didn't push it through when it was proposed beforehand because it was shown to be doomed to failure. I think that's pretty clear, isn't it?

It was made free because it cost more than 30 Baht in administration to collect the 30 Baht medical fee. Therefore the scheme is more profitable now that it's free, because they don't have to spend the more-than-30-Baht to collect the 30 Baht.

Has that helped?

Therefore the scheme is more profitable now that it's free, because they don't have to spend the more-than-30-Baht to collect the 30 Baht.

thats a great way to describe it.......

[JurgenG]

Thaksin's 30 Baht system (which was not his, but was his, depends what you want to prove and which side you're on) was a very bad thing because according to the democrat, it will bankrupt the health system, and in this case, and this case only, it was a Thaksin idea, because if it's a good thing, it can't be a Thaksin idea but somehow a democrat idea but if eventually it turns out to be a very bad thing then it will definitely be a Thaksin idea ...

Then, because at 30 bahts it's going to bankrupt the health system, Abhisit improved it and made it a "zero baht" system so it will be more profitable ????

I'm completely lost, can someone please help ?

Is was his scheme because he launched it - but he launched it before the plan was sustainable (and it was therefore doomed to failure). Everyone knew this already, but Thaksin pushed it through anyway to support his populist agenda - he obviously didn't care that studies had shown that it would bankrupt public health. The Dems didn't push it through when it was proposed beforehand because it was shown to be doomed to failure. I think that's pretty clear, isn't it?

It was made free because it cost more than 30 Baht in administration to collect the 30 Baht medical fee. Therefore the scheme is more profitable now that it's free, because they don't have to spend the more-than-30-Baht to collect the 30 Baht.

Has that helped?

The only reason this plan was not sustainable was because collecting 30 bahts cost more than 30 bahts. So by scrapping the 30 bahts charge, it is now sustainable right ? Because the democrat wouldn't carry on with something that is not sustainable only because it's popular among voters, right ?

Actually, Thaksin fault was to charge 30 bahts, by making it free then it's profitable. I get it. For lunch, I'm going to tell the owner of my favorite eatery that he is going to make much more money by giving away his food for free. You democrat are genius !

[jayboy]

I am puzzled how jdinasia manages to get onto the free medical system, have you become a Thai citizen?

I am a taxpayer.

So am I and also qualify but being reasonably well off and a foreigner don't make use of it, believing this is a resource for less well off Thai people.Most of my Thai friends, mostly professionals, take the same view.

But it's interesting that a foreign Thaksin hater feels happy to use a scheme the Great Satan pioneered.

[timekeeper]

Thaksin's 30 Baht system (which was not his, but was his, depends what you want to prove and which side you're on) was a very bad thing because according to the democrat, it will bankrupt the health system, and in this case, and this case only, it was a Thaksin idea, because if it's a good thing, it can't be a Thaksin idea but somehow a democrat idea but if eventually it turns out to be a very bad thing then it will definitely be a Thaksin idea ...

Then, because at 30 bahts it's going to bankrupt the health system, Abhisit improved it and made it a "zero baht" system so it will be more profitable ????

I'm completely lost, can someone please help ?

Is was his scheme because he launched it - but he launched it before the plan was sustainable (and it was therefore doomed to failure). Everyone knew this already, but Thaksin pushed it through anyway to support his populist agenda - he obviously didn't care that studies had shown that it would bankrupt public health. The Dems didn't push it through when it was proposed beforehand because it was shown to be doomed to failure. I think that's pretty clear, isn't it?

It was made free because it cost more than 30 Baht in administration to collect the 30 Baht medical fee. Therefore the scheme is more profitable now that it's free, because they don't have to spend the more-than-30-Baht to collect the 30 Baht.

Has that helped?

The only reason this plan was not sustainable was because collecting 30 bahts cost more than 30 bahts. So by scrapping the 30 bahts charge, it is now sustainable right ? Because the democrat wouldn't carry on with something that is not sustainable only because it's popular among voters, right ?

Actually, Thaksin fault was to charge 30 bahts, by making it free then it's profitable. I get it. For lunch, I'm going to tell the owner of my favorite eatery that he is going to make much more money by giving away his food for free. You democrat are genius !

juren, you were the first one to use the term ''profitable'', its fairer to all i think to say that theres no profit at all but since its been made free it costs the government less in administration than it did when its introduction by the Thaksin government

Edited May 27, 2011 by timekeeper

[letitbe]

The only reason this plan was not sustainable was because collecting 30 bahts cost more than 30 bahts. So by scrapping the 30 bahts charge, it is now sustainable right ? Because the democrat wouldn't carry on with something that is not sustainable only because it's popular among voters, right ?

Actually, Thaksin fault was to charge 30 bahts, by making it free then it's profitable. I get it. For lunch, I'm going to tell the owner of my favorite eatery that he is going to make much more money by giving away his food for free. You democrat are genius !

Even you should understand that if it costs more to collect 30 baht than you get its much better to make it free except of course you do not have hordes of administrators who loose their non jobs. If your local eatary spends more on cashier wage and other costs purely associated with bill payment then yes if they decide to continue it would be cheaper for then and better to not charge for the meal. That is a very silly comparison. The only argument for charging when it costs more to collect charge than you get is to maybe make people think twice before using service on constant visits for the most trivial complaints or to discourage more people not to use it at all. So you prefer to charge really poor do you ??? Come on get a brain and grow up please

[whybother]

The only reason this plan was not sustainable was because collecting 30 bahts cost more than 30 bahts. So by scrapping the 30 bahts charge, it is now sustainable right ? Because the democrat wouldn't carry on with something that is not sustainable only because it's popular among voters, right ?

Actually, Thaksin fault was to charge 30 bahts, by making it free then it's profitable. I get it. For lunch, I'm going to tell the owner of my favorite eatery that he is going to make much more money by giving away his food for free. You democrat are genius !

The difference being that your favorite eatery charges more than it costs to make the food that you eat.

[jayboy]

Even you should understand that if it costs more to collect 30 baht than you get its much better to make it free except of course you do not have hordes of administrators who loose their non jobs. If your local eatary spends more on cashier wage and other costs purely associated with bill payment then yes if they decide to continue it would be cheaper for then and better to not charge for the meal. That is a very silly comparison. The only argument for charging when it costs more to collect charge than you get is to maybe make people think twice before using service on constant visits for the most trivial complaints or to discourage more people not to use it at all. So you prefer to charge really poor do you ??? Come on get a brain and grow up please

You're both squabbling about what is in some senses a technicality.Thaksin provided the vision and pioneered the scheme.If he hadn't taken this action I doubt whether the Democrats would have adopted it.Nevertheless they did and if they made it administratively better and more cost effective, than that's to the good.The ordinary people of Thailand, for whom the scheme is designed - not the Gaysorn Plaza set - have benefited.That is something all surely can agree is very positive (except of course for the Thaksinophobes but they lost control of rhyme and reason long ago)

[Pi Sek]

The only reason this plan was not sustainable was because collecting 30 bahts cost more than 30 bahts. So by scrapping the 30 bahts charge, it is now sustainable right ? Because the democrat wouldn't carry on with something that is not sustainable only because it's popular among voters, right ?

Actually, Thaksin fault was to charge 30 bahts, by making it free then it's profitable. I get it. For lunch, I'm going to tell the owner of my favorite eatery that he is going to make much more money by giving away his food for free. You democrat are genius !

juren, you were the first one to use the term ''profitable'', its fairer to all i think to say that theres no profit at all but since its been made free it costs the government less in administration than it did when its introduction by the Thaksin government

I don't know the exact numbers, but I'm pretty certain that the scheme is still not sustainable now that it's free. But it is losing less money than it was before, so is more "profitable". I think that is a very clear point that you'll struggle to overcome.

There is also a value that can be attached to the provision of affordable healthcare which can be levied against any public sector spending. This value is perceived as an increased standard of living and of course extra votes. For these two reasons, it is very difficult for an incumbent government to cut back on such a scheme, even if it is not working.

Thaksin's mistake was to launch the scheme in the first place - that is a mistake Chuan's Dems didn't make (because it was proven to be not in the best interests of the hospitals, the patients or the taxpayers) and one that Abhisit's Dem-led coalition have had to deal with - not very well of course, because it's broken.

The reason that it was not sustainable was that the public health industry had not decreased their marginal costs enough through economies of scale to be able to offer affordable healthcare. In other words, if Thaksin had really wanted this to work for the long-term, the Health ministry would have had to spend a lot more money than they had available to put the infrastructure in place to lower average cost enough to treat people on a sustainable basis. So, the reason it didn't work was simply because it was not ready. Yet Thaksin, aware of this, pushed it through anyway, which tells me he was more interested in the votes than improving the standard of living and in fact was willing to decrease the standard of living as a means to gain power. Much like Chancellor Palpatine (the future Galactic Emperor) in Star Wars Episode III.

One ambiguity though - I'm not sure Abhisit was the one who made it free, didn't that happen under Thaksin's tenure (or maybe under one of the govts since)?

[anterian]

This is fun

i can remember the time when it was suggested to abolish fares on the London Underground for the same reasoning. The Costs of ticket offices, Inspectors etc was higher than the revenue. Many years later the system is still subsidised by the government and fares have gone through the ceiling.

now how about the logic of free electricity and water if you use less than 100 Baht's worth each month?

[whybother]

...

One ambiguity though - I'm not sure Abhisit was the one who made it free, didn't that happen under Thaksin's tenure (or maybe under one of the govts since)?

http://www.jointlear...ontent/thailand

The Baht 30 copayment was abolished by the next government in November 2006, and the system is now totally free of charge.

That dastardly junta.

Edited May 27, 2011 by whybother

[whybother]

This is fun

i can remember the time when it was suggested to abolish fares on the London Underground for the same reasoning. The Costs of ticket offices, Inspectors etc was higher than the revenue. Many years later the system is still subsidised by the government and fares have gone through the ceiling.

now how about the logic of free electricity and water if you use less than 100 Baht's worth each month?

IF the government is subsidising something, and it costs more to manage the payment of the subsidised amount than what is being collected, then it stands to reason that there is no point collecting anything.

[JurgenG]

Even you should understand that if it costs more to collect 30 baht than you get its much better to make it free except of course you do not have hordes of administrators who loose their non jobs. If your local eatary spends more on cashier wage and other costs purely associated with bill payment then yes if they decide to continue it would be cheaper for then and better to not charge for the meal. That is a very silly comparison. The only argument for charging when it costs more to collect charge than you get is to maybe make people think twice before using service on constant visits for the most trivial complaints or to discourage more people not to use it at all.

It was not silly because at last we have a post that makes sense.

You're both squabbling about what is in some senses a technicality.Thaksin provided the vision and pioneered the scheme.If he hadn't taken this action I doubt whether the Democrats would have adopted it.Nevertheless they did and if they made it administratively better and more cost effective, than that's to the good.The ordinary people of Thailand, for whom the scheme is designed - not the Gaysorn Plaza set - have benefited.That is something all surely can agree is very positive (except of course for the Thaksinophobes but they lost control of rhyme and reason long ago)

Agree with you, subsidized healthcare is the way to go, even the democrats eventually understood that. They just tried to improve it, but as the second part of "letitbe" post shows, and I agree with it, without fully understanding the point of charging such a small amount as 30 Bahts. (The only argument for charging when it costs more to collect charge than you get is to maybe make people think twice before using service on constant visits for the most trivial complaints)

Edited May 27, 2011 by JurgenG

[rixalex]

So am I and also qualify but being reasonably well off and a foreigner don't make use of it, believing this is a resource for less well off Thai people.Most of my Thai friends, mostly professionals, take the same view.

A noble gesture indeed.

And like all noble gestures, probably better left unspoken.