In Jail: My Innocent 23 Year Old Son

[JohnReeves]

I have just got off the phone with people involved with their distressed nationals at a major embassy in Bangkok.

They have confirmed to me that the purchase of illicit Thai visas is common in Pattaya, Samui and Phuket. In their opinion the majority of people buying fake Thai visas, in Thailand, knowing enter into this arrangement and are aware it is illegal to do so. I number of people each year do get caught!

I work in Bangkok and to date am not aware of and have not seen cases like this in court. Frankly the majority of Bangkok police wouldn't know if your passport was fake, let alone know if you have a fake visa in it.

The embassy in question that wishes to remain anonymous said, that typically the nature of the crime causes the court to consider you as a flight risk, as it is alleged that you have done something or allowed something illegal to be done to your passport and as such you may have connections to illicit means of leaving the country and fleeing from justice, so in most cases bail is denied.

As I think I mentioned before in a previous post, having a good lawyer to prove and present the lack of malicious intent or you unknowing committing this crime, WILL make the difference to the sentence you get.

Sadly the embassy has reported people have got up to 18 months detention for this crimes of this nature on a number of occasions.

Thaivisa.com is here to allow us to understand the laws relating to visas in Thailand and we all come here to get a better understanding of this, to allow us to stay within the law.

BB

LOOK MOM NEEDS TO COM DOWN JUST ALITTLE,THE WORST THAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN HERE IS HER SON IS GOING TO GET FINED (35,000- 70,000 BAHT ) THEN AFTER THAT HE GOES TO IDC IN BANGKOK WHEN THE ENGLISH CONSULATE RECIEVES TICKET MONEY FROM HIS FAMILY THEY WILL BUY IT AND 7-10 DAYS LATER HE WILL FLY. MY BRO WHO IS FROM THE U.K. JUST WENT THROUGH THIS 16 MONTHS AGO I BABY SAT HIM THROUGH THE WHOLE THING.TO INCLUDE BRINGING FOOD AND WATER TO HIM EVERY DAY AT IDC.

JOHN

[beano2274]

First I must say that your son is NOT innocent.

And at this stage in the proceedings he is NOT guilty either......he stands accused of a crime at this point in time......it up to a court of law to decide the guilt or innocence of the party.

LETS BE REAL THIS IS THAILAND,EVEN IF HE DID NOT SIGN THAT PAPER ,ALL TOURISTS OR FARANG ARE GUILTY.THIS IS HOW IT IS,IVE SEEN IT FAR TO MANY TIMES FOR TO MANY YEARS.AS I POSTED EARLIER LET HIM GO TO COURT SEND HIS FINE AND TICKET MONEY TO THE U.K. CONSULATE AND NEXT TIME WHEN HE TRAVELS SOME PLACE TELL HIM TO WISE UP AND DO THINGS CORRECTLY DOUBLE AND TRIPLE CHECK ANYTHING ANYBOBY TELLS HIM.THIS REAL BE A UNCOMFORTABLE BUT GREAT LEARNING EXSPERIENCE FOR HIM AND MAYBE WILL KEEP HIM FROM DOING SOMETHING REALLY STUPID SOME PLACE ELSE.

JOHN

\

Take the Caps lock off please, your shouting can be seen but not heard!!!!!!!

[JohnReeves]

First I must say that your son is NOT innocent.

And at this stage in the proceedings he is NOT guilty either......he stands accused of a crime at this point in time......it up to a court of law to decide the guilt or innocence of the party.

LETS BE REAL THIS IS THAILAND,EVEN IF HE DID NOT SIGN THAT PAPER ,ALL TOURISTS OR FARANG ARE GUILTY.THIS IS HOW IT IS,IVE SEEN IT FAR TO MANY TIMES FOR TO MANY YEARS.AS I POSTED EARLIER LET HIM GO TO COURT SEND HIS FINE AND TICKET MONEY TO THE U.K. CONSULATE AND NEXT TIME WHEN HE TRAVELS SOME PLACE TELL HIM TO WISE UP AND DO THINGS CORRECTLY DOUBLE AND TRIPLE CHECK ANYTHING ANYBOBY TELLS HIM.THIS REAL BE A UNCOMFORTABLE BUT GREAT LEARNING EXSPERIENCE FOR HIM AND MAYBE WILL KEEP HIM FROM DOING SOMETHING REALLY STUPID SOME PLACE ELSE.

JOHN

\

Take the Caps lock off please, your shouting can be seen but not heard!!!!!!!

Sorry,but you know i'm right.

[moe666]

Right about what, that farangs are guilty that commit crimes.

[JusMe]

"He also signed a document upon arrest that was written in Thai, he had no lawyer present and no translator. This paper says he is guilty."

Of course he's guilty. If nothing else, he's guilty of stupidity!

[electrozebra]

"He also signed a document upon arrest that was written in Thai, he had no lawyer present and no translator. This paper says he is guilty."

Of course he's guilty. If nothing else, he's guilty of stupidity!

Or is he simply guilty of not being 'Worldly Wise' ??

Sometimes we forget that many in their early 20's do not know everything, even though they often profess to know everything. Depending on his upbringing and his knowledge of the world to date has to be a factor here.

Maybe he has a past that would lead to hime being aware of what he was doing, we do not know. Maybe his past inexperience makes him easily duped.

The point is, he has not been found guilty or innocent and that we do not know the lad in question, or even if this is simply a Troll post.

[homeslice]

I am surprised that due to the gravity of the alleged situation and the desperation of the OP that he has not come back to the forum.

Could this be a fresh troll.

BB

He went back under the bridge to be close to his other troll brothers in his time of need.

[007]

LETS BE REAL THIS IS THAILAND,EVEN IF HE DID NOT SIGN THAT PAPER ,ALL TOURISTS OR FARANG ARE GUILTY.THIS IS HOW IT IS,IVE SEEN IT FAR TO MANY TIMES FOR TO MANY YEARS.AS I POSTED EARLIER LET HIM GO TO COURT SEND HIS FINE AND TICKET MONEY TO THE U.K. CONSULATE AND NEXT TIME WHEN HE TRAVELS SOME PLACE TELL HIM TO WISE UP AND DO THINGS CORRECTLY DOUBLE AND TRIPLE CHECK ANYTHING ANYBOBY TELLS HIM.THIS REAL BE A UNCOMFORTABLE BUT GREAT LEARNING EXSPERIENCE FOR HIM AND MAYBE WILL KEEP HIM FROM DOING SOMETHING REALLY STUPID SOME PLACE ELSE.

JOHN

\

Take the Caps lock off please, your shouting can be seen but not heard!!!!!!!

And before you tell other people 'to wise up'; why don't you go back to primary school and learn how to spell "EXSPERIENCE" correctly.

[Badbanker]

John, It is the Immigration Detention Center, not " international deportation center ( IDC )"!

I have been to many countries in the world and I have never seen "THE ENGLISH CONSULATE" in any of these!

I agree if this is not a troll it is not a huge problem for the 23 year old boy. Just money for lawyer, court, fines and ticket home. Bit sad that he is going to be black listed tho.

BB

[007]

Right about what, that farangs are guilty that commit crimes.

Fair enough. But I have seen, or was offered, visa stamps (not visas) by illegal means here in Thailand by government officials. For a young person, travelling to Asia for the first time this may very well seem legit.

[beano2274]

I was offered the stamps too, was meant to go on a border run many years ago, from a coffee shop right outside a BTS station, I told the guy I really did not have the time to do the run as was meant to be working, he offered to get the stamp done, and pay the overstay, at the time I did take the risk. It came back with a stamp from another International Airport in Thailand, yes I was dumb and naive It is a legitimate stamp comparing it with others although not legitimately gained, but I made sure when I had the chance that the passport was lost, never to be seen again, a replacement one now only has real legitimate stamps from Immigration at Nonthaburi or Swampy on my way out and back from trips.

And before anyone starts, I am not the only one, there are many out there who have done the same cause of other commitments, just ask some of your friends or even some of the posters on this topic or forum.

[Badbanker]

The risk is that MANY people do go with these illegal services and when you get caught it is not pretty and can mean you going to have your life really destroyed and you can never return again to Thailand.

[Soutpeel]

First I must say that your son is NOT innocent.

And at this stage in the proceedings he is NOT guilty either......he stands accused of a crime at this point in time......it up to a court of law to decide the guilt or innocence of the party.

LETS BE REAL THIS IS THAILAND,EVEN IF HE DID NOT SIGN THAT PAPER ,ALL TOURISTS OR FARANG ARE GUILTY.THIS IS HOW IT IS,IVE SEEN IT FAR TO MANY TIMES FOR TO MANY YEARS.AS I POSTED EARLIER LET HIM GO TO COURT SEND HIS FINE AND TICKET MONEY TO THE U.K. CONSULATE AND NEXT TIME WHEN HE TRAVELS SOME PLACE TELL HIM TO WISE UP AND DO THINGS CORRECTLY DOUBLE AND TRIPLE CHECK ANYTHING ANYBOBY TELLS HIM.THIS REAL BE A UNCOMFORTABLE BUT GREAT LEARNING EXSPERIENCE FOR HIM AND MAYBE WILL KEEP HIM FROM DOING SOMETHING REALLY STUPID SOME PLACE ELSE.

JOHN

John...no need to SHOUT..The reality is at this juncture is that he has been charged with something and its up to a court of law to decide innocence or guilt ,this is why we have courts of law and lawyers...

[personchester]

I have just got off the phone with people involved with their distressed nationals at a major embassy in Bangkok.

They have confirmed to me that the purchase of illicit Thai visas is common in Pattaya, Samui and Phuket. In their opinion the majority of people buying fake Thai visas, in Thailand, knowing enter into this arrangement and are aware it is illegal to do so. I number of people each year do get caught!

I work in Bangkok and to date am not aware of and have not seen cases like this in court. Frankly the majority of Bangkok police wouldn't know if your passport was fake, let alone know if you have a fake visa in it.

The embassy in question that wishes to remain anonymous said, that typically the nature of the crime causes the court to consider you as a flight risk, as it is alleged that you have done something or allowed something illegal to be done to your passport and as such you may have connections to illicit means of leaving the country and fleeing from justice, so in most cases bail is denied.

As I think I mentioned before in a previous post, having a good lawyer to prove and present the lack of malicious intent or you unknowing committing this crime, WILL make the difference to the sentence you get.

Sadly the embassy has reported people have got up to 18 months detention for this crimes of this nature on a number of occasions.

Thaivisa.com is here to allow us to understand the laws relating to visas in Thailand and we all come here to get a better understanding of this, to allow us to stay within the law.

BB

LOOK MOM NEEDS TO COM DOWN JUST ALITTLE,THE WORST THAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN HERE IS HER SON IS GOING TO GET FINED (35,000- 70,000 BAHT ) THEN AFTER THAT HE GOES TO IDC IN BANGKOK WHEN THE ENGLISH CONSULATE RECIEVES TICKET MONEY FROM HIS FAMILY THEY WILL BUY IT AND 7-10 DAYS LATER HE WILL FLY. MY BRO WHO IS FROM THE U.K. JUST WENT THROUGH THIS 16 MONTHS AGO I BABY SAT HIM THROUGH THE WHOLE THING.TO INCLUDE BRINGING FOOD AND WATER TO HIM EVERY DAY AT IDC.

JOHN

John ... Do not print entirely in capital letters, it's eye disturbing.

[JusMe]

"He also signed a document upon arrest that was written in Thai, he had no lawyer present and no translator. This paper says he is guilty."

Of course he's guilty. If nothing else, he's guilty of stupidity!

Or is he simply guilty of not being 'Worldly Wise' ??

Sometimes we forget that many in their early 20's do not know everything, even though they often profess to know everything. Depending on his upbringing and his knowledge of the world to date has to be a factor here.

Maybe he has a past that would lead to hime being aware of what he was doing, we do not know. Maybe his past inexperience makes him easily duped.

The point is, he has not been found guilty or innocent and that we do not know the lad in question, or even if this is simply a Troll post.

"Worldly Wise"? A ten year old, maybe, but if he's in his 20s, he wouldn't sign a document back home in a language he couldn't read without a translation and probably a lawyer present.

Maybe he needs help breathing? Someone to spoon feed him so he doesn't starve to death? How did he ever get a passport, buy a plane ticket, and fly to Thailand without getting lost?

He hasn't yet been found guilty of committing a crime, but definitely guilty of stupidity.

[Penkoprod]

John, It is the Immigration Detention Center, not " international deportation center ( IDC )"!

I have been to many countries in the world and I have never seen "THE ENGLISH CONSULATE" in any of these!

I agree if this is not a troll it is not a huge problem for the 23 year old boy. Just money for lawyer, court, fines and ticket home. Bit sad that he is going to be black listed tho.

BB

Hold on, though...why does this need to be a ticket "home"?

Cant it be a flight to a neighbouring country, or is it a prerequisite that it HAS TO BE an expensive ticket home (in this case, to the UK)?

Just to get him out of the pickle he is in, i mean.

Penkoprod

[JohnReeves]

John, It is the Immigration Detention Center, not " international deportation center ( IDC )"!

I have been to many countries in the world and I have never seen "THE ENGLISH CONSULATE" in any of these!

I agree if this is not a troll it is not a huge problem for the 23 year old boy. Just money for lawyer, court, fines and ticket home. Bit sad that he is going to be black listed tho.

BB

Hold on, though...why does this need to be a ticket "home"?

Cant it be a flight to a neighbouring country, or is it a prerequisite that it HAS TO BE an expensive ticket home (in this case, to the UK)?

Just to get him out of the pickle he is in, i mean.

Penkoprod

OK,OK,consulate ,embassy what ever.It was the U.K. embassy official who called it the international deportation center, when my buddy was awaiting transfer from the ARANYAPHRATHET JAIL i just figured he knew what he was talking about..Now to address penkoprod,the U.K. OFFICAILS told me and my bro's parents that thailands immagration policy then required the offender to be deported to his country of citizenship.And,because this was abit more of a crime than a overstay he would 100% for sure be placed on the immagrations black list. Also ian was granted bail.a local thai person of good standing and of whom has a personal relationship whith the offender can sign and post bail.Ian's court date was three months away so I put up 75,000 bht plus 10,000 baht for bondsmen( ians parents said they would repay all ) and i had my girlfriend say she was his girlfriend and she went to the thai version of a bondsmenThey kept his passport and gave him some written documents to carry in case he got stopped.Ian was also required go all the way back to the main court once a month to check in untill his court date.Once he went to court no lawyer required,THEY provided a thai one plus translater.they told him plead no contest basicaly.Yes i'm guilty but with a exscuse (I'M STUPID } he had to give them all the information on the place that sold the bad stamp to him and the court would just fine him and deport him.He did this they put him back in jail to wait transport to (IDC).I stayed there with him for 5-6 days i kept him fed watered and in cigarrets then they transported him (BUT ALL AMERICANS ARE BAD GUYS RIGHT ).The EMBASSY called his folks they sent his fine and ticket money,all i had to do was just keep him well fed and in cigarrets again untill he left.You have to see (IDC) to believe it.Thai people keep there water buffalo in better conditions.Now i must say english hospitality is incredible.2 months later ian invited me to ENGLAND both he and his parents treated me like royalty,they would not let me buy a pint or spend a pound.They are very kind people and my adopted parents.

john

[Rumpole]

Where is buying a visa inside the country being visited or once inside the country ever 'normal practice'... anywhere?

Second, my country (or any other country for that matter) does NOT SELL Visas at travel agents.

Many countries in the World allow certain types of visa (including visit or tourist visas) to be extended while in-country or permit the holder to switch to a different visa-class without exiting the country. Some nations (to my certain knowledge, for example, Cambodia, Vietnam and China) also permit travel and/or other agencies to quite legally attend the immigration office and complete these formalities on behalf of clients for a fee.

Just because the Thais like to give foreigners the immigration run-around, doesn't mean to say that everywhere else does too.

Edited May 24, 2011 by Rumpole

[booma]

Welcome to the land of scams , that is if you have lots of cash on hand , you can also purchase a visa at a travel agent in Cambodia , a legal one , but not for travel to the Uk .

Hello dumb.

May I take this opportunity to point out that you are more likely to get scammed if you appear to have lots of cash on hand and not tucked away, safely, in your pocket (or bank) where no one can see it. I decline to comment on the rest of your statement.

B.

[booma]

Where is buying a visa inside the country being visited or once inside the country ever 'normal practice'... anywhere?

Second, my country (or any other country for that matter) does NOT SELL Visas at travel agents.

Many countries in the World allow certain types of visa (including visit or tourist visas) to be extended while in-country or permit the holder to switch to a different visa-class without exiting the country. Some nations (to my certain knowledge, for example, Cambodia, Vietnam and China) also permit travel and/or other agencies to quite legally attend the immigration office and complete these formalities on behalf of clients for a fee.

Just because the Thais like to give foreigners the immigration run-around, doesn't mean to say that everywhere else does too.

Visa services can be paid for within the uk!

[Penkoprod]

OK,OK,consulate ,embassy what ever.It was the U.K. embassy official who called it the international deportation center, when my buddy was awaiting transfer from the ARANYAPHRATHET JAIL i just figured he knew what he was talking about..Now to address penkoprod,the U.K. OFFICAILS told me and my bro's parents that thailands immagration policy then required the offender to be deported to his country of citizenship.And,because this was abit more of a crime than a overstay he would 100% for sure be placed on the immagrations black list. Also ian was granted bail.a local thai person of good standing and of whom has a personal relationship whith the offender can sign and post bail.Ian's court date was three months away so I put up 75,000 bht plus 10,000 baht for bondsmen( ians parents said they would repay all ) and i had my girlfriend say she was his girlfriend and she went to the thai version of a bondsmenThey kept his passport and gave him some written documents to carry in case he got stopped.Ian was also required go all the way back to the main court once a month to check in untill his court date.Once he went to court no lawyer required,THEY provided a thai one plus translater.they told him plead no contest basicaly.Yes i'm guilty but with a exscuse (I'M STUPID } he had to give them all the information on the place that sold the bad stamp to him and the court would just fine him and deport him.He did this they put him back in jail to wait transport to (IDC).I stayed there with him for 5-6 days i kept him fed watered and in cigarrets then they transported him (BUT ALL AMERICANS ARE BAD GUYS RIGHT ).The EMBASSY called his folks they sent his fine and ticket money,all i had to do was just keep him well fed and in cigarrets again untill he left.You have to see (IDC) to believe it.Thai people keep there water buffalo in better conditions.Now i must say english hospitality is incredible.2 months later ian invited me to ENGLAND both he and his parents treated me like royalty,they would not let me buy a pint or spend a pound.They are very kind people and my adopted parents.

john

Thanks for the info

It just seemed (seems) a bit strange is all....... not to just get the "offender" out of the country (anywhere they had a valid ticket out for) and make them PSN, rather than insist on them going to their home country....simple deportation not being enough.

Penkoprod

[Badbanker]

Unfortunately if you break the law in a serious manner which a fake visa is, the judge will order your deportation and blacklisting on the immigration computer.

It comes down to the fact that if you are sent to any country that is not your home country the immigration computer may to be linked to the airline computer that does have registered the fact that you are being deported. Some countries will not allow deportees entry from a country with which they do not have right of refusal!

This is not a visa overstay, it is serious and has serious consequences that will bar you from Thailand for a long time.

Just remember this, when you give your passport to someone to do that visa run for you!

BB

Edited May 25, 2011 by Badbanker

[Mario2008]

Thai penal code regarding forging of documents:

http://www.consular.go.th/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=336

[Pattaya46]

They have confirmed to me that the purchase of illicit Thai visas is common in Pattaya, Samui and Phuket.

Where did you hear that ?

Yes it was maybe true more than 10 years ago, not nowadays !

The risk is that MANY people do go with these illegal services and when you get caught it is not pretty and can mean you going to have your life really destroyed and you can never return again to Thailand.

Again it's NOT a common practice, and not developing.

Those who choose to take this way know perfectly it's against Thai laws and know risks they take.

Would you do that in another country? No. So why here? Stupid? Lazy? ...

Good to see sometimes this kind of story to remind everyone

that falangs we must respect Thai laws too in this country.

[stuandchris]

There are no agencies or travel agents in the UK that can "issue" visas.

There are companies you pay and they do the relevant paperwork for you if you are to lazy to do it yourself but the visa will be legal from a Consulate or Embassy.

[Semper]

Geerraphun. This statement of yours is hogwash.

my country (or any other country for that matter) does NOT SELL Visas at travel agents.

[mrjohnno]

Second, my country (or any other country for that matter) does NOT SELL Visas at travel agents.

Than's not entirely true. If I'm in New Zeland and wish to travel to Australia then a travel agent issues you with the required 3 months tourist visa. If you but the ticket at the agency then the visa is free, otherwise there is a 10 dollar service charge.

[Mrjlh]

ABSOLUTELY AMAZING! You guys crack me up! Very typical of TV members!

The OP has not responded to any of your questions, yet you guys are blasting this and that. Calling each other stupid.....on and on it goes.

All you know is the guy got arrested and has been sitting in jail for 20 days. For what? Bad Visa Stamp? What else do you know? NOTHING!! Nada!

Why was he here? Visiting? Was he working? Why did he need a stamp? Where is he now? Has he gone home? Is the OP a troll? 6 pages of nothing!

Mods CLOSE this one!

[Semper]

ABSOLUTELY AMAZING! You guys crack me up! Very typical of TV members!

The OP has not responded to any of your questions, yet you guys are blasting this and that. Calling each other stupid.....on and on it goes.

All you know is the guy got arrested and has been sitting in jail for 20 days. For what? Bad Visa Stamp? What else do you know? NOTHING!! Nada!

Why was he here? Visiting? Was he working? Why did he need a stamp? Where is he now? Has he gone home? Is the OP a troll? 6 pages of nothing!

Mods CLOSE this one!

Why are you reading it?

[sunlife2000]

i would have though after so many pathetic replies the OP would not even bother posting anything else