Bar Near Temple - Bin Visit

[mallmagician]

Hi,

I have afriend that owns a bar, all licensed, work permit etc, near the side wall of a temple out of town.

Today the bib visited when he was closed, and told his landlord (that runs the shop next door), that he cannot run his bar here.

The bar is licensed and details of location were shown when obtaining thelicense. Also 2 grocery shops selling whisky and beer are next to the temple too, but no visit for them.

What's the legal requirements where temples are concerned? And does he have a leg to stand on.

[mallmagician]

Bar has been open 2 yrs already, isn't open late, and never has any trouble.

[cmsally]

Guesthouses and hotels should be 100m from the nearest temple. That's how it is legally but lots don't seem to fit this law.

I doubt it would be under police jurisdiction to question this , more likely amphur/tesabahn etc. He would need to go to wherever his license was issued and ask under what clause or whatever he is in the wrong. Seems to be most logical step. If they say he is legal then take details of visiting police!

[thaimiller]

Thats bad news for the owners, hope they can sort it out soon, they have been around the pub scene in Chiang Mai long enough to know the right people though.

Edited May 24, 2011 by thaimiller

[elektrified]

Is this place in Sansai inside a moobaan near the entrance to Laguna, Pimuk, etc. Just curious.

[thaimiller]

That'll be the one

[mrclough]

Is this place in Sansai inside a moobaan near the entrance to Laguna, Pimuk, etc. Just curious.

Possibly or possibly not. There are three bars close to each other in this area. 1 is near the back enterance to Laguna near a 7/11 store, generally known as the corner bar. If you continue past this bar and follow the road around to a small crossroads there is a bar there and if you turn left the third bar is a short way down that road. This is the one by the temple walls.

[Sunbelt Asia]

It is illegal to sell alcohol within 500m of the boundaries of the Wat, regardless of whether or not its a bar or grocery store.

It is possible someone reported the bar, but it should be noted that it is illegal for anyone to sell alcohol within that 500m radius

[sunbelt][/sunbelt]

[cloudhopper]

It is illegal to sell alcohol within 500m of the boundaries of the Wat, regardless of whether or not its a bar or grocery store.

It is possible someone reported the bar, but it should be noted that it is illegal for anyone to sell alcohol within that 500m radius

[sunbelt][/sunbelt]

Half a kilometer from the wall? Violated everywhere then.

[thaimiller]

It looks like 90% of bars in Chiang mai would need to close then.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

It looks like 90% of bars in Chiang mai would need to close then.

Of course. Just note the number of temples in Chiang Mai; the place almost has more temples than bars.

[naboo]

So, the wat on Loi Kroh road, about half way down, probably makes every bar in that area illegal. How could they possibly all still be open?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

So, the wat on Loi Kroh road, about half way down, probably makes every bar in that area illegal.

Yes, it does. Along with the other temple on Loi Kroh, and several on Thapae Road, the one on the corner of Moon Muang Soi 1, and the one on Sridonchai Road.

They completely cover the whole area, going with Sunbelt's expert advice of 500 meters.

What it comes down to is more 'gray area' in law, what I attested to in a different topic. The result is that nobody is equal under the law, and police can and do employ mafia tricks to mine the gray area.

Note that the above does not even have all temples, so don't take the above to pick a spot for any potential bar. For example Wat Chaimonkhon on the river will cover the Japanese hostess bars on Sridonchai near the Chedi. And dozens of temples in the old town cover that whole area too.

It's worth noting that according to Sunbelt it's not just bars, but any place selling alcohol. Someone with more time than me may want to add all the 7-Elevens and hotels to the map. There wouldn't be a single hotel in Chiang Mai that could sell an alcoholic drink if Sunbelt was correct. It would effectively turn Chiang Mai into Riad, Saudi. Guess The Chedi used different expert advice before opening shop..

Edited May 27, 2011 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Sunbelt Asia]

It's still under discussion, as it would be difficult for implementing such laws:

Not so difficult for less populated areas, but for populated areas (major and tourist attraction provinces) it would be very difficult.

The Section in the Alcohol Controlling Act B.E.2551 that they would like to emphasis is section 27 subsection (8) where they initially stated that any other location that the government (Committee) sees that it would be appropriate. The 100m distance is not in discussion, but the 500m is the government's preferred distance.

[realthaideal]

Winnie, how'd you make that simple-yet-effective graphic ? Teach me. Tell me the program n I'll screw around with it. Would love to be able to mark up some maps and send to people sometimes, but don't know how.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Winnie, how'd you make that simple-yet-effective graphic ? Teach me. Tell me the program n I'll screw around with it. Would love to be able to mark up some maps and send to people sometimes, but don't know how.

Heh, that particular one was highly amateurish because I was too lazy to find a proper graphics program.. so I just did it in Windows Paint.

I would normally use Gimp ( http://www.gimp.org/ ) which is free, or Photoshop of course. (Select using the circle select tool, then 'Stroke')

Another option after taking the screen shot from Google maps ( I use MW Snap (free) for taking screen shots), is to paste it into Word and just use Word's graphic stuff to add some circles on top of it, then do a screen shot again of the map and graphic stuff on top. You could also use LibreOffice Draw, which is free. ( http://www.libreoffice.org/features/draw/ )

Finally, I think Google maps also offers drawing shapes on top of maps. For that you first need to create a map in 'My Maps' then use the drawing tools. Don't think circles are on offer though, I think it's only lines and shapes made up of straight lines.

[IanForbes]

I guess I needn't return to Thailand if the "authorities" start enforcing all the laws that are SUPPOSED to be in place.. .

[Rama]

In Chiang Mai, the rule that the Wats and Police follow is 50 meters. And then it depends. If a new bar is less than 50 meters, the new bar should go and introduce themselves to the abbot, and have a Thai go, not a farang. Most abbots understand that they are only trying to make a living. If the bar doesn't make any noise after 11ish and the owner has the same Thai make occasional visits and donations to the Wat, there usually isn't any problem. Noise (music and/or shouting) after 11ish every night that keep the monks awake results in the abbot calling the police and having the place shutdown. The abbots will accomodate you if you accomodate them.

The abbots here realize that 500 meters is not realistic in Chiang mai with the density of guest houses and bars and wats. Remember there are more Wats here than in all of Bangkok........

[infernalman7]

I thought places that opened before the zoning laws are exempt (perhaps only in Bangkok).

[hugocnx]

It may have something to do with not obeing the rules on a Budha day. Especially a farang owned bar should honor the Budha days and close. Specially when the bar is close to a Wat as described.

That's the system, the culture and those are the rules.